U.S. Ladies [#24]: Starr-Ting Order/Detailed Classification

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Clutz said:
. .....as long as you are a producer. If you don't produce, you get dropped by the side road, unless you live in a socialistic Nancy Pelosi society that seeks to reward losers and beats down the contributors.
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I am anti-socialist, but can we please not talk about specific politicians and their policies in a strictly skating topic, if it can be avoided?

Qualifying for an event for a young kid is to some degree an accomplishment, and a kid should have a "momentum" at least for sake of "memory" and for the record, so some token is a good idea. Awards/rewards should be given only to top 3, or 4, in the proper order, with #1 having the "highest/biggest".
 
Tinami Amori said:
Qualifying for an event for a young kid is to some degree an accomplishment, and a kid should have a "momentum" at least for sake of "memory" and for the record, so some token is a good idea. Awards/rewards should be given only to top 3, or 4, in the proper order, with #1 having the "highest/biggest".
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Which, as @concorde has noted, is true of Figure Skating in the US at all but the very beginner levels.

Especially in ladies' singles.

(Other disciplines often have low enough participation that qualifying to sectionals for boys or to Nationals for pairs and dance can sometimes be automatic, some years at some levels in some regions/sections. But the colors of the medals, or whether one receives a medal at all, are still hierarchical based on placement.)
 
Tinami Amori said:
I am anti-socialist, but can we please not talk about specific politicians and their policies in a strictly skating topic, if it can be avoided?
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An excellent suggestion, particularly if it prevents people from making openly idiot comments like this:

Clutz said:
Ah I'll bet my taxes are already paying for you to be there babe.
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missing said:
This quote from Eddie the Eagle seems apropos:

“I was a true amateur and embodied what the Olympic spirit is all about,” he says. “To me, competing was all that mattered. Americans are very much ‘Win! Win! Win!’ In England, we don’t give a fig whether you win. It’s great if you do, but we appreciate those who don’t. The failures are the people who never get off their bums. Anyone who has a go is a success.”
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That might have been true back in the 1980s, but the UK Sport organization has been far more stricter with performance/funding formulas this decade (since London 2012 Olympics)

There was enough of an uproar from certain sports receiving almost nothing from UK Sport that a new special "Aspiration Fund" was set up this past fall for less profile sports to apply for last minute funding (to try and earn Olympic berths).
 
The IOC itself has been instrumental in imposing minimum technical requirements for entering into almost every event and sport, including ski jumping. Even if GB Snowsport wanted to send another Eddie the Eagle to the Olympics, it wouldn't be allowed to do so.
 
I am also against posting about politicians in this thread, but especially when it's linking politicians to types of policies they don't actually campaign on, advocate for, or try to get passed ;)

I've been thinking about the difference between North American and Russian training environments. Based on interviews and comments it sounds like in Russian schools skaters train together in large groups while in NA, after a certain level, it's all individual lessons with a coach (obviously there are other skaters in the rink, but the coach's focus is on you for that period of time). Is there any benefit to training in a group for longer without as much designated individual attention, either in terms of affordability, skill development, or motivation?
 
@Ena Grins A group will be cheaper and promote staying in the sport in some respect. Some skaters quit skating or switch to synchro at a young age because they want a team sport or something that involves more cooperative training methods. It also gives you more support when you have a bad performance. You can also take corrections given to other skaters and apply them to your own skating, which can be helpful at times. On the other hand, less time is spent correcting you specifically so you have to be very self-motivated and hungry to take and make all the attention/corrections you do get.

BUT, this is dependent on how the group is run. They can be very stressful if you're constantly fighting with your peers for favor and attention from the coach (although this can motivate you as well), but they can be very helpful if the people in your group support you and the coach works to maintain fairness. It can also be difficult if the members of the group aren't at the same skill level. I've seen it work when the skaters are at very different levels, but then it seems more like very short series of private lessons as opposed to a group lesson.
 
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Sylvia said:
I don't know if Courtney has committed to moving yet... Scott said at the end of Courtney's performance in his show (4:30 mark) that he was "trying really hard to get her to move to Nashville" to train there in the next Olympic cycle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQLmj1KW2Vs
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Oh, OK. I thought that was Scott just being cute and assumed since Courtney was coached by Kori, it was happening. I guess we'll see.
 
Sylvia said:
I don't know if Courtney has committed to moving yet... Scott said at the end of Courtney's performance in his show (4:30 mark) that he was "trying really hard to get her to move to Nashville" to train there in the next Olympic cycle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQLmj1KW2Vs
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Interesting, thank you! With Scott on board, I think Nashville could be an up-and-coming skating area within a few years. One rink (Ford Ice) has been open a few years and there's another one under construction. Bridgestone has their North American headquarters in Nashville as well - I believe Nathan & Ashley made an appearance at Ford Ice during the Olympic season.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Nashville make a push for Nationals and maybe even Worlds within the next few years. Bridgestone Arena would be a great host; the only problem being that it's one of the most popular (and I'm sure most expensive to rent) arenas in the country.
 
That would be great. I've been wanting to visit Nashville anyway -- it sounds like such a cool place, and I have a friend or two there. And it's (relatively) close.
 
Nashville is amazing, and not such a bad place to travel to in January.
 
The link Sylvia posted details the transition of Kori and her coaching team to Nashville. It mentions a period from November 2018 to Summer 2019.

That’s Kori, Heather Aseltine and Emily Oltmanns. There is no mention of which athletes may or may not be moving with her.

Courtney was still posting photos of her in Colorado Springs just a week ago.
 
insideedgeua said:
The link Sylvia posted details the transition of Kori and her coaching team to Nashville. It mentions a period from November 2018 to Summer 2019.

That’s Kori, Heather Aseltine and Emily Oltmanns. There is no mention of which athletes may or may not be moving with her.

Courtney was still posting photos of her in Colorado Springs just a week ago.
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Emily has moved to Nashville; her IG showed her and BFF Jason, along with Heather, enjoying his birthday there.

I have heard that Kori is waiting until this school year is over to move; complete and unsubstantiated rumor, but it makes sense.

No confirmation on skaters to follow....
 
I believe Nashville tried hard to get Nationals back a few years ago and got shot down. Not sure the community support is there for another bid.

Plus Nashville knows they can bring in cash with their current uses of the arena, no need to give tons of concessions to a marginal event just to up arena use.
 
Nashville actually hosted a really great Synchro sectionals about 10 or 11 years back, but IIRC they didn't have a good arena. Maybe for Nationals they'd be willing to pay for a Hockey arena. Maybe with Kori and Scott there it would help, but it seemed a lot of the skaters there were hockey. I do remember there were a lot of pair's teams in that area at that time somehow...
 
Personally I think one of the US figure skatings biggest problems is not doing enough to develop good coaches. That is where Russia is ahead.

And if you look at USA gymnastics obviously there were huge issues but they started truly dominating when it stopped being a situation where girls always quit to go to super gyms and coaches were developed.

The send every one to Frank and now Rafe attitude. Other than Rafe we don’t have anyone producing big stars and he didn’t come out of the US system either. I think I read somewhere having Frank work with younger coaches.

And I do personally feel technical skaters aren’t rewarded enough. I felt like Nathan Chen should have won Nationals a few years back when he was third. It was a great technical performance and in a sport that should matter IMO. I wonder if he hadn’t been doing so well internationally if they would have clearly embraced him the next year.

It feels like USFSA is far more forgiving of technical issues than of lack of artistry and when it comes to young skaters it should be the other way around. No Michelle Kwan did not start her career as the perfect artist. I remember her saying her sister was the artist.

When they finally stopped giving Alyssa Cizny gifts she made some important changes.

And why not develop a more group skating approach as for the what if skaters have to compete for attention. Well Mishin is on the record as saying that is one of the benefits.

It might benefit to have that in place especially poorer families. If the sport started educating parents of the benefits.

As for the issue is American kids don’t work hard I think our country is large enough to find some who are. And other countries are more authoritarian. The reigning World Champ is Canadian didn’t know that was an authoritarian.

The US used to dominate ladies even during Communist area I think a lot is coaching.
 
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I think there are a number of different questions, which don't necessarily have the same answer:

What could coaches do, at the grassroots level in hundreds of small rinks around the country, to develop skaters who have the basic techniques needed to move on to elite training?

What could elite coaches at training centers do to develop successful competitors starting from beginner levels for those lucky enough to live nearby when they start young or at middle levels when they decide to relocate or commit to long commutes, to develop elite competitors?

How can training for elite competition, and for recreational skating including competition, be made more affordable, accessible, and attractive to more potential skaters, especially those with skating-advantageous physical gifts?

What can US Figure Skating do to encourage coaches to develop these kinds of programs? (Given the fact that USFS has never directly overseen coaches or training methods and is not in a position to do so even if their membership and the PSA membership thought it would be a good idea if they did.)
 
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