U.S. Ladies [#25]: Method in the Madness

[Vagabond]

Bradie and the Bunch
If I Had a Harrell, If I Had a Bell
Alysa in Wonderland


This thread title was brought to you by Mark and Peter, and by William Shakespeare.

Proceed.

 

[wickedwitch]

There are many purposes to the junior worlds selection camp, but one is to get the ideal junior worlds team for meeting their goals. I believe that arguably the main goal is to maximize JGP slots (because the difference between 7 and 14 spots is a lot bigger than the difference between 2 and 3 ladies at junior worlds). As a result, they need to send skaters who have a shot of beating all the Japanese skaters or, less realistically, all the Koreans. (I'm not even entertaining the possibility of one of them beating all the Russians.) The only two skaters with a semi-realistic shot are Harrell and Cui. In this case, they have made the USFSA's life easy by also being the top 2 finishers at Nats.

As for 3 slots at 2020 junior worlds, both skaters would have to skate very well in both programs. Even I'm not that optimistic.

 

[Sylvia]

Re-posting in this new thread... link to the selections for Worlds, 4CC & Junior Worlds camp: https://www.usfsa.org/story?id=92104&type=media

*Team selections, with exception of alternates, are listed in alphabetical order:

2019 World Championships
Mariah Bell
Bradie Tennell

Alternate 1 – Ting Cui
Alternate 2 – Megan Wessenberg
Alternate 3 – Starr Andrews

2019 Four Continents Championships
Mariah Bell
Ting Cui
Bradie Tennell

Alternate 1 – Megan Wessenberg
Alternate 2 – Starr Andrews
Alternate 3 – Amber Glenn

2019 U.S. World Junior Team Camp
Starr Andrews [S8]
Ting Cui [S5]
Hanna Harrell [S4]
Gabriella Izzo [J1]
Emmy Ma [S9]
Audrey Shin [J2]

"Selections for the ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships 2019 will be announced at the conclusion of the camp. "

'Reporter's Notebook' articles from Nationals with U.S. ladies-related content:

Alysa Liu, Emmy Ma, Ting Cui: https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019...and-more-from-final-day-of-u-s-championships/

...Alysa Liu is set to be in New York for scheduled Tuesday appearances on TODAY and the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. The TODAY appearance is planned for the 8 a.m. hour.
...
“I kind of have had a tough season regarding a lot of issues – mental health, personal issues,” an emotional Ma said after her free skate.
...
“It’s one of my best programs in performance (quality) and one with the hardest jumps I’ve ever done, with the triple Lutz-triple toe loop and triple flip-half loop-triple Salchow,” Cui said. “Definitely the best program in my career probably so far.”

The article mentions the dates for U.S. Figure Skating’s Junior World Camp are Feb. 3-4.

Megan Wessenberg just gets better with age: https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019...eporters-notebook-ladies-free-skate-on-day-2/

She will cover half the rink with a few strokes and glide into her jumps at breakneck speed, if she wants to. At age 20, she can admit there is more to her life than skating, including coaching and studying biology at Northeastern University.

Hanna Harrell's jumps: https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019...ers-notebook-nathan-chen-and-more-from-day-2/

“I’ve been working on them on the [jump] harness, and off the harness, but before nationals I wanted to focus on what I could do,” Harrell said. “Definitely my goal is to do triple Axel next season.”

Julia Biechler on switching her focus from ice dance to singles, Heidi Munger & her I, Tonya body double filiming experience in 2017 (eta) who currently is a sophomore biology major at Boston University: https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019/01/25/u-s-championships-reporters-notebook-day-1/

 

[her grace]

link to the selections for Worlds, 4CC & Junior Worlds camp: https://www.usfsa.org/story?id=92104&type=media

2019 World Championships
Mariah Bell
Bradie Tennell

Alternate 1 – Ting Cui
Alternate 2 – Megan Wessenberg
Alternate 3 – Starr Andrews

2019 Four Continents Championships
Mariah Bell
Ting Cui
Bradie Tennell

Alternate 1 – Megan Wessenberg
Alternate 2 – Starr Andrews
Alternate 3 – Amber Glenn

Another vote of no confidence for Glenn from USFS. Passed over for Andrews in the Worlds alternates and skipped by Andrews in 4CC. Glenn's BOW was pretty scant this season because USFS chose to only send her to 1 challenger, but it's not like Andrews did much better in her 4 international competitions (3 scores lower than Glenn's 1 score, 1 score 10 points higher on her 4th intl attempt), and Andrews lost to Glenn at nationals by five points.

 

[natsulian]

I appreciate your optimism, but I'm not sure how realistic you're being. Ting has never scored above 200 internationally, and she has formidable opposition in the Japanese and Korean Jr. world teams. Ting lost to Korea's Lee on the JGP this season and she hasn't yet faced You, Korea's other Jr. World team member and new Sr. national champion. Ting hasn't faced any of the Japanese team this season, but team member Yokoi beat her at Jr. Worlds last season.

And Harrell, whom you're not worrying about going clean, has never gone clean in any international competition (she had 3 last season and 1 coming off injury this season). Historically, she's just as inconsistent as Ting, and her personal best ISU score is 157.08.

I’m quite optimistic, but Hanna had 2 international assignments, placing 5th and 7th during the 2017-2018 season. During the 2018-2019 season, she also had two international assignments, placing 2nd and 7th, the latter being the one she was injured in. Before she was injured, she was on an upward trajectory, having been the only Junior to go clean throughout the summer competitions (apart from Alysa). After her injury, she went on to place 2nd at Sectionals and 4th at Nationals. Her main inconsistencies are falls on the 3Lz-3T and downgrades on the 3S. Ting is another whole case of inconsistency. Mind you, she got a 199.79 at Tallinn Trophy with 1 fall each in the Short and Long. That’s already a 2 point deduction, plus the -5 for the element. If she had gone clean, she would’ve scored above a 207-208. I’m saying that if we have a clean Hanna and Ting, getting back 3 spots and JGP slots wouldn’t be too challenging. Plus, the Japanese Junior Team is not strong this year. Last year they had Rika (she was a headcase at the time) and Mako, but both are Seniors now. The Koreans had Eunsoo and You, but Eunsoo is a Senior now, and You has inconsistency issues like Ting. Their other star Junior was bypassed... (I don’t know what the KSU is smoking). So the only threats are 1 Korean, 1 Japanese (the current Junior Champion), and 3 Russians. Assuming they all go clean and bypass Ting (and Ting doesn’t melt down) and Hanna, the U.S. girls place 6 and 7 which gets us the magical number of 13 which is not impossible. Sorry for the long response... T_T

 

[Sylvia]

I’m quite optimistic, but Hanna had 2 international assignments, placing 5th and 7th during the 2017-2018 season. During the 2018-2019 season, she also had two international assignments, placing 2nd and 7th, the latter being the one she was injured in.

Hanna won her Junior silver medal at Egna Spring Trophy which took place in April 2018, technically at the end of the 2017-18 season, where she debuted her "Bla Bla Bla Cha Cha Cha" short program (so she used it as a springboard for the new season).

I'm looking forward to seeing which ladies will be selected for upcoming developmental assignments (next month at Bavarian Open in Oberstdorf and Challenge Cup in The Hague, followed by Egna Spring Trophy in late March).

 

[natsulian]

Hanna won her Junior silver medal at Egna Spring Trophy which took place in April 2018, technically at the end of the 2017-18 season, where she debuted her "Bla Bla Bla Cha Cha Cha" short program (so she used it as a springboard for the new season).

I'm looking forward to seeing which ladies will be selected for upcoming developmental assignments (next month at Bavarian Open in Oberstdorf and Challenge Cup in The Hague, followed by Egna Spring Trophy in late March).

Ahhh. Okay, thanks. I was unsure about that one, so thanks for the information. I’m hoping Alysa goes to Challenge Cup. If I recall correctly, she was sent there last season as an Advanced Novice.

 

[Karen-W]

Ahhh. Okay, thanks. I was unsure about that one, so thanks for the information. I’m hoping Alysa goes to Challenge Cup. If I recall correctly, she was sent there last season as an Advanced Novice.

Wouldn't she still have to compete as Advanced Novice since those are 2018-19 season competitions and she's not eligible for juniors until the 2019-20 season?

 

[Teamgracie]

Favorite moment of watching the ladies... Mariah Bell in the kiss and cry with Raf; just love her and her skating! So heartbroken for Amber, another beautiful skater.

 

[natsulian]

Wouldn't she still have to compete as Advanced Novice since those are 2018-19 season competitions and she's not eligible for juniors until the 2019-20 season?

Yes. She's only eligible for International Junior competitions next season.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove]

Really looking forward to see our ladies in just over a week in Anaheim.

So want to see how they stack against each other, against Team Japan and also how Ting handles 4CC!!!

This will practically be in Mariah's backyard.. No travel or nothin... so hope she can bring it ALL!

Refresh my drink was Hannah too young for 4 CC as well?

 

[natsulian]

Really looking forward to see our girls in just over a week in Anaheim.

So want to see how they stack against each other, against Team Japan and also how Ting handles 4CC!!!

Refresh my drink was Hananh too young for 4 CC as well?

Yeah, she missed the deadline by two months.

 

[MIsty Blades/Skate Mom]

After watching the competition and looking at the results, this could possibly be the strongest/youngest US ladies field in a little while. The "young" seniors look very confident and ready to make their mark on this sport. There is so much potential right now. The key could be their continued development (content/skating skills), health (mental and physical) and desire to keep skating for a long time.

 

[kwanatic]

Any idea what happened to Courtney? Sheesh...I was just looking back at the placements and realize she placed 16th out of 17 skaters. Her FS was 2nd lowest of the field.

It seems so odd that she always comes in as a top 6 prospect and just can't seem to pull it together. 5 years in a row now....

 

[mag]

Another vote of no confidence for Glenn from USFS. Passed over for Andrews in the Worlds alternates and skipped by Andrews in 4CC. Glenn's BOW was pretty scant this season because USFS chose to only send her to 1 challenger, but it's not like Andrews did much better in her 4 international competitions (3 scores lower than Glenn's 1 score, 1 score 10 points higher on her 4th intl attempt), and Andrews lost to Glenn at nationals by five points.

This is what worries me about a camp setting being used to decide a team. Andrews looks way better in practice than in competition. I do not understand The USFSA’s fascination with her when there are other choices. It is not like Canada where you picking the ones you hope will suck the least!

 

[IloveFS]

@mag - Your comment is extremely disrespectful to the Canadian ladies. Gabby, Alaine and Larkyn have lots of talent! Shame on you!!!

 

[IloveFS]

This is what worries me about a camp setting being used to decide a team. Andrews looks way better in practice than in competition. I do not understand The USFSA’s fascination with her when there are other choices. It is not like Canada where you picking the ones you hope will suck the least!

I should add that you might want to see our NOVICE ladies... Just you wait.....

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

So Alysa on Today and Jimmy Fallon - 13 yo. I find this sickening. Once again using children to promote stuff - brands, ratings, etc. And, as the endorsements, appearances, etc. pile up we'll wonder why she's not meeting expectations.

The girl was sobbing after her FS. How much pressure do we want to to put on her? It's not normal.

 

[MrMystery]

So Alysa on Today and Jimmy Fallon - 13 yo. I find this sickening. Once again using children to promote stuff - brands, ratings, etc. And, as the endorsements, appearances, etc. pile up we'll wonder why she's not meeting expectations.

The girl was sobbing after her FS. How much pressure do we want to to put on her? It's not normal.

A couple things here... First and foremost, her team (Father, coach, etc.) could have declined the opportunities. Secondly, quite frankly I think it's a good thing and timing... let's assume she continues a successful trajectory and doesn't get sidelined by injuries, puberty, etc., it's a positive that she's getting familiarized with the media machine WELL in advance of 2022 so that IF the spotlight is still shinning on her going into the Olympics, she'll be a pro at handling it.

 

[MrMystery]

I for one am a huge fan of the Junior Worlds training camp concept. I think what people aren't realizing and/or are overlooking is that they aren't making selections solely from the camp. It's still based on body of work in addition to the camp. Very much like how Gymnastics uses a camp to make their Olympic team selection.

I've always been a proponent of the body of work approach and quite frankly think we should be using it more often. Yes, skaters need to perform well under pressure (Nationals), but one competitive shouldn't be the be all end all when determining who comprises the BEST POSSIBLE team for the most important competitions, internationally, of the season.

 

[WillyElliot]

^^^^ This. Tara Lipinski already had an agent and interview/media preparation by age 13 and she looked prepared. Poor Alysa really needs some media training. I could not understand what she said in her interview afterwards. I'm glad she's getting these opportunities. She made history, and she deserves the acclaim.

 

[MrMystery]

^^^^ This. Tara Lipinski already had an agent and interview/media preparation by age 13 and she looked prepared. Poor Alysa really needs some media training. I could not understand what she said in her interview afterwards. I'm glad she's getting these opportunities. She made history, and she deserves the acclaim.

Correct you are RE: Tara. And Alysa does have representation already as well.

 

[mag]

@mag - Your comment is extremely disrespectful to the Canadian ladies. Gabby, Alaine and Larkyn have lots of talent! Shame on you!!!

I should add that you might want to see our NOVICE ladies... Just you wait.....

@IloveFS My apologies. I was not trying to be disrespectful. I have been very involved in figure skating in Canada for many years and remember some of those Novice ladies back before they were landing single axels. That said, there was a fair amount of sucking going on at least in the Senior Ladies rank at Nationals this year. I suspect if you spoke to some of the ladies who competed they would completely agree with me. Figure skaters really do know when they skate badly and most are more than willing to own it.

The next couple of years will be for building and development. Choosing teams will not be a matter of trying to get ladies on the World podium (Gabby excepted of course) but rather figuring out the best combination of experienced international competitors and new up and coming skaters to give us the best shot at maintaining spots so we can continue to give Skaters much needed experience.

The US, on the other hand, have skaters who are able to compete for podium finishes both at jr and Sr worlds. They are in a different spot on the development curve.

 

[haribobo]

It took me a bit but I figured out what happened with that interview question, and Alysa's answer was fine albeit really brief. Andrea asked her a question along the lines of "how do you fit in with the upcoming international skaters" and she answered "my triple axel, just that". Meaning- that's the competitive advantage that helps her keep up with the pack. Not sure what kind of answer Andrea was looking for but that's what she got.

 

[Coco]

Is there any chance for the alternates or people like amberglen to get post Nationals International assignments? Are there any senior B events left?

 

[IloveFS]

@IloveFS My apologies. I was not trying to be disrespectful. I have been very involved in figure skating in Canada for many years and remember some of those Novice ladies back before they were landing single axels. That said, there was a fair amount of sucking going on at least in the Senior Ladies rank at Nationals this year. I suspect if you spoke to some of the ladies who competed they would completely agree with me. Figure skaters really do know when they skate badly and most are more than willing to own it.

The next couple of years will be for building and development. Choosing teams will not be a matter of trying to get ladies on the World podium (Gabby excepted of course) but rather figuring out the best combination of experienced international competitors and new up and coming skaters to give us the best shot at maintaining spots so we can continue to give Skaters much needed experience.

The US, on the other hand, have skaters who are able to compete for podium finishes both at jr and Sr worlds. They are in a different spot on the development curve.

@mag - I don't know if I entirely agree with you. Canada has enormous depth in ice dance as do the Americans. Once Weaver and Poje and Gilles and Poirer retire, Canada still has Soucisse and Firus and Lajoie and Lagtha plus about 5 or 6 extremely talented Novice dance teams. In men, Canada has Stephen Gogolev. Wouldn't it be interesting IF Stephen is Chen's rival at the next Olympics? In pairs, the Americans have some depth but they haven't had a pairs team deliver when it matters most. Thanks to Kirsten and Michael Canada has 2 spots at Worlds this year. I cannot wait to watch Canadians next year to see the pre-novice pairs teams in the Novice event. On this note, there are Junior pairs teams that I am cautiously optimistic might be exceptional once they are fully developed which could occur BEFORE the next Olympics. In ladies, do not count out Gabby Daleman and Alison Schumacher. Forgive me if this is a rumour, I understand that Alaine Chartrand was at one time training a triple axel. It's possible Canada will medal in Jr Men and Jr. Ice Dance at Jr Worlds. That's not a bad stat!

 

[just tuned in]

Julia Biechler on switching her focus from ice dance to singles, Heidi Munger & her I, Tonya body double filiming experience: https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019/01/25/u-s-championships-reporters-notebook-day-1/

For all the conversation and quotes about how great Julia's skating skills are (having been part of an ISU ranked senior ice dance team), her SS mark is among the lowest. Julia got 6.32 for skating skills. Starr Andrews got 7.00.

https://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2019/27958/CAT017SEG036.html

 

[Coco]

Exhibit A for how messed up the application of the components scores are.

 

[skatfan]

Any idea what happened to Courtney? Sheesh...I was just looking back at the placements and realize she placed 16th out of 17 skaters. Her FS was 2nd lowest of the field.

It seems so odd that she always comes in as a top 6 prospect and just can't seem to pull it together. 5 years in a row now....

She doesn’t peak around Nationals unfortunately.

 

[Coco]

The judges were a bit harsh with her and with Hannah Miller. I was happy to see so much love for Hannah in the play-by-play threads on the board. She does have special qualities as a performer. And I'm sorry that we probably won't see her again although who knows.