U.S. Ladies [#25]: Method in the Madness

[Frau Muller]

Another vote of no confidence for Glenn from USFS. Passed over for Andrews in the Worlds alternates and skipped by Andrews in 4CC. Glenn's BOW was pretty scant this season because USFS chose to only send her to 1 challenger, but it's not like Andrews did much better in her 4 international competitions (3 scores lower than Glenn's 1 score, 1 score 10 points higher on her 4th intl attempt), and Andrews lost to Glenn at nationals by five points.

We don’t know if something else might be going on, backed by the skater and her team.

 

[mag]

@mag - I don't know if I entirely agree with you. Canada has enormous depth in ice dance as do the Americans. Once Weaver and Poje and Gilles and Poirer retire, Canada still has Soucisse and Firus and Lajoie and Lagtha plus about 5 or 6 extremely talented Novice dance teams. In men, Canada has Stephen Gogolev. Wouldn't it be interesting IF Stephen is Chen's rival at the next Olympics? In pairs, the Americans have some depth but they haven't had a pairs team deliver when it matters most. Thanks to Kirsten and Michael Canada has 2 spots at Worlds this year. I cannot wait to watch Canadians next year to see the pre-novice pairs teams in the Novice event. On this note, there are Junior pairs teams that I am cautiously optimistic might be exceptional once they are fully developed which could occur BEFORE the next Olympics. In ladies, do not count out Gabby Daleman and Alison Schumacher. Forgive me if this is a rumour, I understand that Alaine Chartrand was at one time training a triple axel. It's possible Canada will medal in Jr Men and Jr. Ice Dance at Jr Worlds. That's not a bad stat!

This is the US ladies thread and I was simply making an off the cuff comparison to the Canadian Ladies. Happy to discuss the rest of the Canadian team in the appropriate threads.

 

[layman]

US Nationals:
This is what I predicted based on previous seasons bests:

1. Liu
2. Tennell
3. Cui
4. Bell

and the result:

1. Liu
2. Tennell
3. Bell
4. Harrell
5. Cui

I am so happy for and proud of all the ladies. Some highlights for me: Liu's steely determination to land those jumps (shades of Kwan), Cui's long program to Giselle (I have watched it over and over and over and each time it gives me chills), the height in Hanna Harrell's jumps (she and Ting Cui have the most spring of any of the ladies), the beautiful artistic details that Bell expressed in her programs, the beautiful artistic details that Emmy Ma expressed in her programs and Tennell's maturation and artistic development. I am so proud of the American Ladies!

 

[Carolla5501]

So Alysa on Today and Jimmy Fallon - 13 yo. I find this sickening. Once again using children to promote stuff - brands, ratings, etc. And, as the endorsements, appearances, etc. pile up we'll wonder why she's not meeting expectations.

The girl was sobbing after her FS. How much pressure do we want to to put on her? It's not normal.

I find it rather sickening that you seem to think these children don’t deserve to have any fun or enjoyment out of their success. And that you seem to think that someone has appointed you the person who knows what’s best for everyone else in the world.


I’m sure you would like it if we just lock those kids up in a skating rink rink for five years and didn’t let them talk to anyone. I mean after they shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy their success should they

I guess we should learn from that horrible story of Nathan. At 11 he was made to appear on an interview. He’s had lots of media hype. What happened to him? Is he living on the streets? Did he give up skating because of the pressure? Oh wait! He’s at Yale and just blew away his competition. LOL

 

[Carolla5501]

Any idea what happened to Courtney? Sheesh...I was just looking back at the placements and realize she placed 16th out of 17 skaters. Her FS was 2nd lowest of the field.

It seems so odd that she always comes in as a top 6 prospect and just can't seem to pull it together. 5 years in a row now....

Lots of errors. It was probably the worst I’ve ever seen her skate

 

[WillyElliot]

Lots of errors. It was probably the worst I’ve ever seen her skate

I was kind of cynical/negative at the start of this year that Courtney was STILL doing this. I figured she was going to give it one more year, since she's an 'elder', but it just never happened for her. I hope she knows she has fans, but they don't ever expect her to do anything anymore. How much money can she afford to continue this pipe dream? Her broken ankle derailed her, and that was like, eight years ago??? Time to say, I gave it the old college try, but time to move on.

 

[just tuned in]

I was kind of cynical/negative at the start of this year that Courtney was STILL doing this. I figured she was going to give it one more year, since she's an 'elder', and it just never happened for her. I hope she knows she has fans, but they don't ever expect her to do anything anymore. How much money can she afford to continue this pipe dream? Her broken ankle derailed her, and that was like, eight years ago??? Time to say, I gave it the old college try, but time to move on.

It was a bad skate, but I could understand if she keeps at it. I hope she does, and best of luck to her.

 

[insideedgeua]

Time to say, I gave it the old college try, but time to move on.

Unless you’re the one paying her bills, then this should be up to Courtney ( or any other skater for that matter) to decide for herself.

 

[WillyElliot]

Unless you’re the one paying her bills, then this should be up to Courtney ( or any other skater for that matter) to decide for herself.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

 

[vesperholly]

I'm sad for Courtney. She really worked hard to improve her PCS over the last two seasons. Her technique is just not fixable after this long.

 

[Tinami Amori]

So Alyssa on Today and Jimmy Fallon - 13 yo. I find this sickening. Once again using children to promote stuff - brands, ratings, etc. And, as the endorsements, appearances, etc. pile up we'll wonder why she's not meeting expectations.

The girl was sobbing after her FS. How much pressure do we want to to put on her? It's not normal.

Looked like tears of joy to me.... she broke the national record.. As she said herself - she did not "come to lose" and she did not...
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eaL9BBe9LIc/maxresdefault.jpg
https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/1124923992.jpg?w=620
https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/1124923941.jpg?w=620

Here is Ladies' US Press conf. Alysa sounds very smart for her age...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1lQn7mmjSE

 

[Seerek]

Time to say, I gave it the old college try, but time to move on.

...speaking of which, does the UFSFA ever consider entering American skaters for the Winter Universiade? It's first week of March this year. Or is that under the NCAA umbrella?

 

[MIsty Blades/Skate Mom]

I doesn't help that the next crop of female skaters is very determined to succeed. Courtney is talented, so if she can be more determined and believe in herself, she could pull herself up in the standings.

I'm sad for Courtney. She really worked hard to improve her PCS over the last two seasons. Her technique is just not fixable after this long.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Looked like tears of joy to me.... she broke the national record.. As she said herself - she did not "come to lose" and she did not...
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eaL9BBe9LIc/maxresdefault.jpg
https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/1124923992.jpg?w=620
https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/1124923941.jpg?w=620

Here is Ladies' US Press conf. Alysa sounds very smart for her age...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1lQn7mmjSE

Thanks for these. I just hope that someone is really monitoring her. Thirteen is not much life experience to judge what is in your best interest.

 

[Japanfan]

Thanks for these. I just hope that someone is really monitoring her. Thirteen is not much life experience to judge what is in your best interest.

I would hope that her dad and her team have her best interests in mind. But that's not already the case.

However, she appears to be a girl who loves to be the center of attention.

I'm not buying into all the hype, though. Let's see if she can still land the 3A after puberty.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

I find it rather sickening that you seem to think these children don’t deserve to have any fun or enjoyment out of their success. And that you seem to think that someone has appointed you the person who knows what’s best for everyone else in the world.


I’m sure you would like it if we just lock those kids up in a skating rink rink for five years and didn’t let them talk to anyone. I mean after they shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy their success should they

I guess we should learn from that horrible story of Nathan. At 11 he was made to appear on an interview. He’s had lots of media hype. What happened to him? Is he living on the streets? Did he give up skating because of the pressure? Oh wait! He’s at Yale and just blew away his competition. LOL

What is your fury about? I have my opinions - it's a skate debate. Despite lots of teenage injuries Nathan seems to be flourishing - but, Brian B. said in the wrap up we'll see how his body holds up for the Olympics. There are now lots of examples of young women pushed to early success only to be no longer skating.

We have our own example in Gracie of the fame machine swallowing someone up. Alysa in a media blitz is not the same as having healthy social relations with her peers. I said nothing about locking someone up in a rink.

 

[Marco]

There are always going to be skaters which we like but which can't make it (consistently) due to a variety of issues. For skaters like Courtney and Angela I can't help but think it is too late. They will have their occasional moment of brilliance but can't seem to do it more regularly to contend either nationally or internationally.

Sometimes injuries happen at the worst of times, but even if they were healthy and had delivered and medalled at Nationals, people would still wonder if they would be able to reproduce again when it counted because they hadn't been able to in the past few seasons. It's Ross Miner all over again. No benefit of the doubt for team assignments. I feel probably Amber and maybe even Hannah Miller are one more Nationals away from slotting into that category too.

 

[insideedgeua]

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

Did that make you feel better?

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

There are always going to be skaters which we like but which can't make it (consistently) due to a variety of issues. For skaters like Courtney and Angela I can't help but think it is too late. They will have their occasional moment of brilliance but can't seem to do it more regularly to contend either nationally or internationally.

Sometimes injuries happen at the worst of times, but even if they were healthy and had delivered and medalled at Nationals, people would still wonder if they would be able to reproduce again when it counted because they hadn't been able to in the past few seasons. It's Ross Miner all over again. No benefit of the doubt for team assignments. I feel probably Amber and maybe even Hannah Miller are one more Nationals away from slotting into that category too.

Skating is a such a tough sport, with so many internal and external variables to consider. Not only is it challenging to acquire the skills necessary to be competitive at the highest level, it is equally difficult to maintain them as well.

Further, an athlete or team may have a brief window of time to truly make their mark.

 

[slicekw]

So Alysa on Today and Jimmy Fallon - 13 yo. I find this sickening. Once again using children to promote stuff - brands, ratings, etc. And, as the endorsements, appearances, etc. pile up we'll wonder why she's not meeting expectations.

The girl was sobbing after her FS. How much pressure do we want to to put on her? It's not normal.

I, too, was concerned by the depth of her sobs. But she convinced her parents and team that she was ready and she apparently was. Remember, it's not unusual for both female and male figure skaters at the Olys to cry after doing well (remember Tara, Michele and Chen Lu?). For Alysa, this was that equivalent.

In all seriousness, with the proper management, she could thrive. Michele Kwan's parents were super-careful about her appearances and other outside commitments, so the Liu's have a good model to follow there. She doesn't get to go to Worlds, so a few TV appearances and some Stars On Ice seem like a good thing as a sort of victory lap.

Don't go feeling that she's going to fail. Send good thoughts to the adults around her. They're the ones that need the moral support right now so they can do the right thing by her. But they're the ones that know her, not us.

 

[ZilphaK]

As I've noted elsewhere, having recently gone through puberty and teenage-dom with two daughters who are not otherwise "cryers" -- and having lived at a skating rink filled with pre-teen and teen girls -- I can attest that years 11-14 are about the peak years for uncontrollable sobbing episodes.

Hurt on the ice, broken ponytail holder, boy crushes, camel spin not going well, wrong pair of tights, One Direction breaking up (or getting back together again) -- all can elicit pretty much the same abundance of tears, often along with howling and foot stomping and making declarations of life as they know it never being the same again.

Winning the US Championships in skating would, I think, be pretty in line with "good reasons" for 13 year olds crying and not necessarily indicative of anything more worrisome.

ETA: My husband cried when the Eagles won the Super Bowl and he didn't even play in it.

 

[gkelly]

I, too, was concerned by the depth of her sobs. But she convinced her parents and team that she was ready and she apparently was. Remember, it's not unusual for both female and male figure skaters at the Olys to cry after doing well (remember Tara, Michele and Chen Lu?).

And Oksanas Grishuk and Baiul quite famously at Lillehammer. I think Kazakova also cried at Nagano, though she was more mature at that point.

 

[Dobre]

Alexei Yagudin @the 2:26 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVYs2M_rIm0

 

[Tinami Amori]

Thanks for these. I just hope that someone is really monitoring her. Thirteen is not much life experience to judge what is in your best interest.

And how exactly this "monitoring" should be arranged? cameras following her every move at the rink and at home, making sure she is not working harder or doing something better than other "average kids" at the rink?

I would hope that her dad and her team have her best interests in mind. But that's not already the case.

What proof or facts are there that indicate "the team/parents do not have her best interests in mind"?

However, she appears to be a girl who loves to be the center of attention. I'm not buying into all the hype, though. Let's see if she can still land the 3A after puberty.

She is getting her attention the right way... by working hard and showing outstanding results, and winning by doing something no one else can currently do in the country. Some skaters run their mouths and some run their skates..

Even if she can't land 3A after puberty, or ever wins or medals, or skates.. she has the USNC title and she landed three 3A's in competition... .. and that is worth the hype.

 

[UGG]

I just keep thinking of Caroline Zhang who was rolling over her competition by 30 points when she was 70 lbs and was the next MK except she was going to win the 2010 and 2014 Olympics. She was too young for worlds in 2008 and was pretty much left in the dust by 2010. She had a great junior career though.

I don’t know if Alysa will have a successful senior career but I think people need to take it down a notch. She was skating with nothing to lose and cannot go to worlds for 3 seasons. That’s a long time. Her first eligible season she will most likely have the weight of the world on her as a 16 year old. She will be in a much different situation than this past weekend. People need to calm down. I really enjoyed her skating this weekend and I’m happy she won because Bradie just seems like a boring 2nd tier skater to me- kind of like Ashley prior to her 2012 transformation. Alysa skates like a champion now but 3 years is far away and she isn’t going to stay that small.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I don’t know if Alysa will have a successful senior career but I think people need to take it down a notch.

Taking down what "notch"? Celebrating and praising her for current accomplishments and abilities? or predicting her to be a Gold winner in 2022? I don't see much of the second...

 

[Sylvia]

For those who'd like to watch Alysa's TV appearances yesterday & today, links are posted in this TV Alerts thread: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/alysa-lius-tv-appearances.105210/#post-5523889

 

[UGG]

Taking down what "notch"? Celebrating and praising her for current accomplishments and abilities? or predicting her to be a Gold winner in 2022? I don't see much of the second...

Predicting her to be the savior of US Ladies and making the Olympic team in 3 years.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Predicting her to be the savior of US Ladies and making the Olympic team in 3 years.

I don't see much of those predictions taking place on FSU... what i do see is people looking for all sorts of negativity in her current situation, and already predicting the doomsday..

 

[UGG]

I don't see much of those predictions taking place on FSU... what i do see is people looking for all sorts of negativity in her current situation, and already predicting the doomsday..

Oh. Well I guess people see situations differently