U.S. Ladies [#24]: Starr-Ting Order/Detailed Classification

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Sylvia

Not yet ready for club comp. season to be underway
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56,835
Twitter and IG and facebook should be FORBIDDEN to skaters as "self promotion tool". shut up and skate.
I actually am all for skaters to "let their skating do the talking" but the new reality is that many skaters use social media these days -- some much more than others -- and if you (general) don't like it, don't follow them on social media. :D

IMO, Gracie has kept a pretty low profile on her social media all season, so we'll just have agree to disagree on that point.
 
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Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
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17,172
I actually am all for skaters to "let their skating do the talking" but the new reality is that many skaters use social media these days -- some much more than others -- and if you (general) don't like it, don't follow them on social media. IMO, Gracie has kept a pretty low profile on her social media all season, so we'll just have agree to to disagree on that point.
It's not just Gracie, many other skaters who have "problems" or "set backs" or "want something beside results of their skating" use social media for unfair advantage. Just because one has access to social media, and uses every source, and posts stuff that makes them favorable, does not make them "good athletes ready for normal competition". I am against manipulation of public opinion in hope to gain an advantage in "sports".
 

Willin

Well-Known Member
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1,993
@overedge Exactly. In synchro all monitoring does is tell you where you're losing out points, and what small/reasonable changes can be made to maximize your point potential more immediately, and what you'll need to work on for the season. Usually it's both technical or artistic stuff. They never tell you if you're ready to compete, just how to maximize your potential for where you are at that moment and perhaps realistic expectations of where you'll be placing.

I think for higher level teams and skaters that are in the international selection pool there is generally some reporting back to USFS about their progress or programs, but I've never heard anything about monitoring being used to force skaters out of competitions. For those international teams it's more so USFS knows they'll have some competition experience and feedback that season so they're not trying everything for the first time on a big stage. Especially with how varied rules and calling can be from season to season in things like synchro, it's valuable to have that feedback before they'd get hammered by the callers for not meeting the current requirements at an international competition. I'd imagine there's elements that would need similar review in singles (step sequences, combo spins, this season jump rotation, transitions, etc.)
 

AxelAnnie

Well-Known Member
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10,988
I am so glad you posted this, and that the issue has been addressed in the official press. It is a common misconception that "a skater is an angel, who owes no obligations and has no duties to vendors, sponsors, federation, coaches and other service providors".

Skaters enter into contracts/agreements/obligations, formal, official and sometimes "moral rules" with many parties, individuals and entities (mentioned, but not in full, above). They (skaters) MUST follow the rules, obligations, contract conditions and MORAL factors when making decisions. Many/some have NOT acted decently and respected the agreements, and yet were supported by "skating fans" in spite of their bad behavior, choices and actions. Skaters don't have "more rights" than other parties in a written or verbal or implied contract they enter into.

Gracie's "personal situation, goals and expectations" do not give her the right to be selfish and to mislead other parties involved. I am glad she made a timely announcement about withdrawing from USA-Nationals. I hope she regains shape and form for next season.
A million dittos!
 

gkelly

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,501
I think most skaters are well aware that popularity with fans has no bearing on what kinds of points or placements they will receive in competition.

They might like to engage with fans for other reasons.

Officials aren't keeping track of which skater has the most fans and factoring that into their scores.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Well-Known Member
Messages
29,232
Tinami, I think we're talking about different things. It seems like you're talking about skaters using social media to CAMPAIGN for themselves to get better marks over their competitors, and using it when they aren't 100% to help them with the scoring and maybe using those fans to bash other skaters in a close call where the other skater places ahead.
 

Jayar

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,224
How about this-- perhaps US Figure Skating thought Gracie's track record warranted that she ultimately make her own decision about competing?
 

Bonjour Sherry

Active Member
Messages
79
Hope Gracie felt comfortable with her withdrawal decision and comes back happily next year on her own terms.

I always hope to see Bradie and Mariah 1-2 in some order, since they have been pretty consistent this year, almost to the point that I would compare them to Ashley and Gracie four years ago. Or at least I hope they are top 2 senior-eligible ladies, if Alysa Liu makes some noise. Ting is a marvelous skater who can probably score 210+ internationally with two clean programs, but she makes too many mistakes in competition. Mariah has a reputation for being inconsistent, but Ting makes far more errors in competition. Ting might sneak into the top 2 if she skates well, but I prefer that she gets sent to Worlds after becoming more consistent.

Hicks, Wang, Glenn, and Starr Andrews haven't had any track record of skating consistently, so even if they skate well, I think the judges will hold them back unless Tennell and/or Bell bomb badly. Wang and Andrews are also a bit lacking in technical difficulty, unless Starr lands the triple axel.

I don't get why people say Megan Wessenberg is consistent. On top of placing 18th at Nationals last year, she only had one OK competition this year (SKAM), and 170 doesn't stack that remarkably in today's field. Also she was marked rather generously there, considering her mistake on the solo triple in the short and landing only 4 triples in the long.
 

AxelAnnie

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,988
I think most skaters are well aware that popularity with fans has no bearing on what kinds of points or placements they will receive in competition.

They might like to engage with fans for other reasons.

Officials aren't keeping track of which skater has the most fans and factoring that into their scores.
True. But it does impact her "Brand" i.e. contracts, endorsements, opportunities.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,044
Mariah has a reputation for being inconsistent, but Ting makes far more errors in competition.
Maybe if you only count this season. Let's find out, shall we?

Full disclosure: I am declining to include club events. I am leaving them out for a few reasons: 1. Mariah didn't skate any that I remember, and if she did it must have only been one. 2. Ting didn't have a coach for a while this summer, and her performances at the time didn't seem reflective of her skating typically. 3. I'm lazy, and there probably aren't protocols to be found for some of those summer events anyway. Here we go...

Mariah:
Nebelhorn-fall on the 3Lz, heavy negative GOE on the 3S, Level 1 spin with a bit of negative GOE
Skate Canada-Ur on the 3Lz and Ur on the 3T with unclear edge on the combo in the SP, substantial negative GOE on the 2A+3T, UR on the 3Lz2T2Lo, fall on the 3Lz
NHK Trophy-fall on a URed 3Lz+3T with an unclear edge in the SP, 3Lz+2T+2Lo with an unclear edge, unclear edge on the solo 3Lz
Golden Spin-UR on the 3+3 combo in the SP, popped 3Lz instead of 3Lz+2T+2Lo (put 2T on later combination but lost the 2Lo in addition to the 3Lz), URed 3F with unclear edge

Total: 19 errors in 4 events

Ting:
Austria JGP-fall, wrong edge, and popped the toe on her 3Lz3T combo (2T was invalidated--maybe she fell in the middle of the combo?) in the SP, level 2 step sequence in the SP, unclear edge on 3Lz+3T, popped 3Lz, fall on 3Lo with UR, fall on 3F with UR
Czech Skate-fall on the 3F, fall on a URed 3Lz, fall on a URed 3F and lost the +Eu+3S, fall on a URed 3Lz, fall on a URed triple flip.
Tallinn Trophy-fall on the 3F in the SP, fall on the 3Lz+3T

Total: 21 errors in 3 events


So, yes, Ting has made more errors this season despite only having three international events. And, yes, Mariah is inconsistent too. I counted URs, edge calls, falls, and pops all as separate errors as they all bring in their own deductions. Ting's URs this season seem to have all come with falls. Mariah has had a lot of issues with her 3Lz.
 

Bonjour Sherry

Active Member
Messages
79
Whole post
Ok, maybe it's closer upon reexamination. Especially since scores in junior competitions tend to be lower, Ting's JGP scores might look more like something in the 160s and 180s on the senior circuit. I don't consider URs and edge calls as 'mistakes', they are instead deficiencies in jump techniques that cause loss of points.
 

analia

Well-Known Member
Messages
509
I absolutely abhor the mindset of some skaters blaming their athletic failure on "mental problems." This shouldn't be encouraged as it doesn't do anyone any good. That being said, Gold or Karen Chen can do what they want as far as withdrawing goes. I don't know what the big deal is. It's really no different from any skater withdrawing from any competition.
 

carriecmu0503

Well-Known Member
Messages
301
My guess for the likely Worlds team members, barring shocking melt downs-

Bradie - Great tech content and refined lines & art. Must be US #1...not just the top senior-eligible lady...to go into Worlds as true podium contender. Judges & callers, remember that before going gaga for the kid.

Mariah - to me, clear age-eligible US 2. Best balance of tech and art.

Ting - maybe, maybe but...does Giselle have the spine to come across as strong?

Amber...if she performs as when she won her Jr title in 2014. A marketeers’ dream, if she puts it together

BIG DIVIDE: “THE REST”

I’ve seen too many recent under-performances from other named faves. For example, wasn’t Megan W 18th in her Nationals SP one year ago...eighteenth, folks? Starr seems to have gone through “the P Monster” recently. Courtney has been my great secret hope for years, no matter how she styles herself, but... too many years of frustrating pops, falls, doubling...so she’s now with “The Rest.” Ditto Hannah Miller, for whom I’ll always have a soft spot. Emmy Ma, such a sensitive artist but the tech?

Who do people see in the final five group for the LP (since were now down to 20 Sr Ladies competitors...four groups of 5)? I’m guessing Bradie, Mariah, Ting, Amber & Alysa.

They will still want 6 in the group for the TV broadcast. My guess is there will be 2 groups of 4 (not broadcast) and then 2 groups of 6 for television.
 

Ena Grins

Active Member
Messages
34
I'm confused - are people criticizing Gracie for withdrawing after saying on Twitter, more than a month ago, that she intended to compete at Nationals? She's been practically silent on social media, so I highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt it's part of any campaign for certain marks. I think it's far more likely she hoped to be ready enough to compete, realized she wasn't, and then decided to withdraw in a timely way rather than have a repeat of Rostelecom cup.

I absolutely abhor the mindset of some skaters blaming their athletic failure on "mental problems." This shouldn't be encouraged as it doesn't do anyone any good. That being said, Gold or Karen Chen can do what they want as far as withdrawing goes. I don't know what the big deal is. It's really no different from any skater withdrawing from any competition.
I know. You'd think the brain was part of the body or something.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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25,766
I absolutely abhor the mindset of some skaters blaming their athletic failure on "mental problems." This shouldn't be encouraged as it doesn't do anyone any good.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have an early contender for The Most Insensitive FSU Post of 2019.
 

Aerobicidal

Not Thirteen Years Old
Messages
9,016
I'm confused - are people criticizing Gracie for withdrawing after saying on Twitter, more than a month ago, that she intended to compete at Nationals? She's been practically silent on social media, so I highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt it's part of any campaign for certain marks. I think it's far more likely she hoped to be ready enough to compete, realized she wasn't, and then decided to withdraw in a timely way rather than have a repeat of Rostelecom cup.



I know. You'd think the brain was part of the body or something.
AMEN.

My own comment: I (needless to say) do not post on Golden Skate, but I checked their forums for the first time in ages to see if people were talking about the Safe Sport allegations whose threads were closed here on FSU. I don't think they were, but I wound up killing time at work reading the thread about Ted Barton's interview with Tutberidze, which further solidified my belief that Golden Skate is horror horror horror. One person posted that Gracie was so fat at Rostelecom that she certainly was injuring herself by attempting triples and it was the second saddest thing they'd ever seen in skating.

So, I guess a minority of FSU and a majority of GS are convinced that Gracie Gold is a morbidly obese opportunist using mental health issues as an "excuse" while promoting herself via social media in order to garner inflated scores (like the ones at Rostelecom, or??!?) and reputation.

Gracie's story this year resonates a lot with me because I am also experiencing what it's like to return to doing something I used to be really good at and realizing that I'm not that good anymore. However, I'm still generally a cynical and heartless person (and I absolutely abhor her FS music) but I am passionately rooting for her to eventually come back and wipe the floor with all the sonograms and zygotes and shamers.

On a very vaguely related note, I'm sad Katie McBeath won't be at Nationals this year.
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,172
I think most skaters are well aware that popularity with fans has no bearing on what kinds of points or placements they will receive in competition.
You’re right, not directly. But then this is what happens sometimes. A skater is experiencing a “hardship” of some kind; he/she advertises the issue from his/her perspective. The issue is about “some advantage” which a given skater either lost, or never had, or could not manage. The sympathies is always with “the skater”. Nobody questions the skater’s tactics and way of life, to see if he/she did something wrong, or could have done something differently. He/she gets immediate “sympathy” without examination for the causes… maybe “the skater” did something wrong. Then through various stages the “issue” is posed against those who “do not have the same issue” or have “natural advantages”. Then the conversation starts “how can we hold back those with advantages, to make sure that those with problems have a level playing field”. It is not direct, but it is happening, not just in skating but in society.

I absolutely abhor the mindset of some skaters blaming their athletic failure on "mental problems."
I have not posted on FSU for almost a week, because of real life/business related issues. In those issues there were deadlines, contracts, numbers, criteria, performance and results. Totally different mind set where people are held accountable and must fulfill their obligations NO MATTER WHAT MOOD they are in, if they did or not gain 5 pounds, if they feel blue or pink or purple, or bad or good, or whatever…. And here I come to FSU, and there we have it, another sob story for Gracie (and prior to that for many other skaters from all countries).

This whole issue with “mental problems” ever since I came to USA in the mid 70’s, seemed like a bad Woody Allen movie. Every time someone feels bad, inadequate, sulky, disappointed, confused the issue of therapist, sociologist, psychologist, psychoanalyst, etc., comes up…. Instead of picking up a shovel and doing some digging in their back yard, or going for a jog, people start digging into their “feeeeeeeelings” and “emoooootions” like in a pile of their own excrements looking for micro-worms.

Millions of soldiers returned home injured after WWII, and they did not sulk or had a chance to feel depressed. They had to find work to support their families. All the killings and horror they witnessed did not affect their need to survive, without legs, arms and other defects.

My grandfather’s brother, came out of a concentration camp, ended up with is own business in South Africa, 5 years later. He told me stories about people in his barracks, people of SAME age. Some just remained on their bunker-bed, depressed, did not get to eat, or to work, and they were shot. And others, in the SAME situation, treasured every hour of life, picked up those bricks and those shovels, even if it was forced labor, but every move they made was a “gift” and a symbol “we’re alive”, and every minute of hardship was a gift of life as well, because they were alive and knew what they had to do to live another hour.

How about this-- perhaps US Figure Skating thought Gracie's track record warranted that she ultimately make her own decision about competing?
If Gracie was responsible enough, she would not have gone to Russia in the condition she was in. Then after Russia, she would have announced that she is not skating at Nationals. It is impossible to lose the weight and regain basic condition required in 2-3 months. I do believe it is possible to do by next season, but anyone with her experience should have known that Nationals are not likely.

It’s all the “talk on social media” and “politically correct messages” that partially pushed her to think that “it’s ok as it is”.

Tinami, I think we're talking about different things. It seems like you're talking about skaters using social media to CAMPAIGN for themselves to get better marks over their competitors, and using it when they aren't 100% to help them with the scoring and maybe using those fans to bash other skaters in a close call where the other skater places ahead.
Social media is used as a campaign tactic. Fans bashing other skaters does happen. But like I said above, given other social trends in societies, it ends up being a “wave of opinion” and starts conversations “how can we disable the able ones”. Like with quads, Nathan Chen, 3A for Alysa, age issues with Eteri’s girls, and overhauling of judging system to reduce the value of difficult elements.

You know.... as much as i do not like Buianova, what she did with Kovtun WORKED! lose weight, practice more, cut social media, and get your gear in order, OR YOU'RE OUT. Now he is a National Champion.

Western civilization is getting too soft and unfair to those who are willing to work harder than others. It's a problem.
 

Sylvia

Not yet ready for club comp. season to be underway
Messages
56,835
TeamUSA.org also published a recap of Bradie Tennell's media call from yesterday: https://www.teamusa.org/News/2019/January/10/After-Whirlwind-2018-Bradie-Tennell-Keeps-Things-Simple-In-Her-Defense-Of-National-Title
Excerpt from the end:
“The [Chicago] community has been really supportive, and that means so much to me, to have all these people come out and show their support, and really get behind me,” she said. “I really love bringing all the attention to this sport, because that brings new interest. It always makes my day when I see a little kid on the ice for the first time, having so much fun.”
Tennell’s competition schedule means she is often away from her home rink, and her in-season training depletes her free time. Still, Tennell tries to find time to coach some of the younger skaters because of how it allows her to give back to the sport that has given her so much.
“I love being able to take the knowledge and experience I’ve gained and share it with the younger kids,” she said. “That’s something special. Not everybody gets to have that opportunity, so I really love being able to have that opportunity and be able to use it.”
ETA:
On a very vaguely related note, I'm sad Katie McBeath won't be at Nationals this year.
So am I. :(
 

Carolla5501

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,502
Ladies and gentlemen, we have an early contender for The Most Insensitive FSU Post of 2019.

No we have a winner... Close the competition.

Then everyone proceed to put analia on IGNORE! There's no need to indulge people who are that clueless that in ANY sport mental issues can have an impact. We can "absolutely abhore" insensitive posters by not giving them an audience. BYE!
 

carriecmu0503

Well-Known Member
Messages
301
I absolutely abhor the mindset of some skaters blaming their athletic failure on "mental problems." This shouldn't be encouraged as it doesn't do anyone any good. That being said, Gold or Karen Chen can do what they want as far as withdrawing goes. I don't know what the big deal is. It's really no different from any skater withdrawing from any competition.
You are clearly an ignorant, clueless person who has no idea what it is like to suffer from mental health issues. I sincerely hope that in the event you have loved ones, that none of them ever suffer from mental health issues, because you would sure not be supportive and would make everything worse. Seriously, people like you are why there is a stigma surrounding mental health issues, and why so many people suffer alone, in silence, when they should and could be getting help!
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Well-Known Member
Messages
29,232
I think the people affected or scared after World War II but who did not actual deal with it (or thinking all they need to do is shape up or ship out) are a huge reason why there may have been a spike in psychology/psychiatry and interest in exploring mental health issues and "feelings". Even if they were seemingly functional on the outside, usually, unexplored/unaddressed issues were expressed in unhealthy ways and many families and people suffered as a result and issues of self-harm were epidemic...but usually in quiet where shame and isolation contributed to perpetuating a bad cycle of harm.

There's a scene in the show The Crown where evangelist Billy Graham visits England and people are showing up in the thousands to see him and were crying and emotional and needed so badly to heard/prayed for/etc. The Queen's mother scoffs at the tv screen showing images of people crying and she's like "we didn't cry during the war!" But this took place in the 1950s and most of those people lived through the war, through the bombings and rationing, and loved ones being killed, fear of Germany invading, etc. So obviously the stiff upper lip and take it on the chin attitude resulted in some real pent up feelings and sadness that just came out.
 
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Ena Grins

Active Member
Messages
34
You’re right, not directly. But then this is what happens sometimes. A skater is experiencing a “hardship” of some kind; he/she advertises the issue from his/her perspective. The issue is about “some advantage” which a given skater either lost, or never had, or could not manage. The sympathies is always with “the skater”. Nobody questions the skater’s tactics and way of life, to see if he/she did something wrong, or could have done something differently. He/she gets immediate “sympathy” without examination for the causes… maybe “the skater” did something wrong. Then through various stages the “issue” is posed against those who “do not have the same issue” or have “natural advantages”. Then the conversation starts “how can we hold back those with advantages, to make sure that those with problems have a level playing field”. It is not direct, but it is happening, not just in skating but in society.
I literally cannot think of a single example of this happening in skating. Maybe you're referencing rule changes like limiting the number of quads or jumping passes in the second half? But neither of those came about because other skaters complained about not being able to do it on social media in order to garner sympathy.

This whole issue with “mental problems” ever since I came to USA in the mid 70’s, seemed like a bad Woody Allen movie. Every time someone feels bad, inadequate, sulky, disappointed, confused the issue of therapist, sociologist, psychologist, psychoanalyst, etc., comes up…. Instead of picking up a shovel and doing some digging in their back yard, or going for a jog, people start digging into their “feeeeeeeelings” and “emoooootions” like in a pile of their own excrements looking for micro-worms.
As an actual therapist, I feel compelled to tell you that once again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Regardless, we're straying really far from the topic of US women's figure skating.
 

carriecmu0503

Well-Known Member
Messages
301
You’re right, not directly. But then this is what happens sometimes. A skater is experiencing a “hardship” of some kind; he/she advertises the issue from his/her perspective. The issue is about “some advantage” which a given skater either lost, or never had, or could not manage. The sympathies is always with “the skater”. Nobody questions the skater’s tactics and way of life, to see if he/she did something wrong, or could have done something differently. He/she gets immediate “sympathy” without examination for the causes… maybe “the skater” did something wrong. Then through various stages the “issue” is posed against those who “do not have the same issue” or have “natural advantages”. Then the conversation starts “how can we hold back those with advantages, to make sure that those with problems have a level playing field”. It is not direct, but it is happening, not just in skating but in society.



I have not posted on FSU for almost a week, because of real life/business related issues. In those issues there were deadlines, contracts, numbers, criteria, performance and results. Totally different mind set where people are held accountable and must fulfill their obligations NO MATTER WHAT MOOD they are in, if they did or not gain 5 pounds, if they feel blue or pink or purple, or bad or good, or whatever…. And here I come to FSU, and there we have it, another sob story for Gracie (and prior to that for many other skaters from all countries).

This whole issue with “mental problems” ever since I came to USA in the mid 70’s, seemed like a bad Woody Allen movie. Every time someone feels bad, inadequate, sulky, disappointed, confused the issue of therapist, sociologist, psychologist, psychoanalyst, etc., comes up…. Instead of picking up a shovel and doing some digging in their back yard, or going for a jog, people start digging into their “feeeeeeeelings” and “emoooootions” like in a pile of their own excrements looking for micro-worms.

Millions of soldiers returned home injured after WWII, and they did not sulk or had a chance to feel depressed. They had to find work to support their families. All the killings and horror they witnessed did not affect their need to survive, without legs, arms and other defects.

My grandfather’s brother, came out of a concentration camp, ended up with is own business in South Africa, 5 years later. He told me stories about people in his barracks, people of SAME age. Some just remained on their bunker-bed, depressed, did not get to eat, or to work, and they were shot. And others, in the SAME situation, treasured every hour of life, picked up those bricks and those shovels, even if it was forced labor, but every move they made was a “gift” and a symbol “we’re alive”, and every minute of hardship was a gift of life as well, because they were alive and knew what they had to do to live another hour.



If Gracie was responsible enough, she would not have gone to Russia in the condition she was in. Then after Russia, she would have announced that she is not skating at Nationals. It is impossible to lose the weight and regain basic condition required in 2-3 months. I do believe it is possible to do by next season, but anyone with her experience should have known that Nationals are not likely.

It’s all the “talk on social media” and “politically correct messages” that partially pushed her to think that “it’s ok as it is”.



Social media is used as a campaign tactic. Fans bashing other skaters does happen. But like I said above, given other social trends in societies, it ends up being a “wave of opinion” and starts conversations “how can we disable the able ones”. Like with quads, Nathan Chen, 3A for Alysa, age issues with Eteri’s girls, and overhauling of judging system to reduce the value of difficult elements.

You know.... as much as i do not like Buianova, what she did with Kovtun WORKED! lose weight, practice more, cut social media, and get your gear in order, OR YOU'RE OUT. Now he is a National Champion.

Western civilization is getting too soft and unfair to those who are willing to work harder than others. It's a problem.
Another clueless person who does not understand that mental health issues are an injury, a disease, and just like any other injury or disease, they do not go away without actual treatment.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
21,033
Yeah, I'm not really sure this article from Christina is needed, even though she makes relevant points. For one, Gracie is beautiful, but Phil and Christine sound so trashy whenever they keep mentioning Gracie's "movie star looks", etc. At this point, Gracie hasn't been relevant on the world scene for more than two years, she wasn't going to be a factor at this nationals except for it being a step towards rebuilding, so I feel like there's no need to pile on with talk about how her future is uncertain.
I'm bothered by this:

With her scintillating talent, her perfect last name and her movie star looks, Gold appeared to have it all
It suggests that having a certain name and movie star looks are advantages in FS, when they should not be. Most skaters do not have movie star looks, although from my vantage point at age 60, most of them are quite beautiful/handsome.

I have to wonder whether for Gracie, being beautiful was more curse than blessing in a country looking for its' next ice princess.
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,424
As the thread starter, I could ask SHARPIE to close this thread. Please don't feed the trolls. :saint:
 

AxelAnnie

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,988
You are clearly an ignorant, clueless person who has no idea what it is like to suffer from mental health issues. I sincerely hope that in the event you have loved ones, that none of them ever suffer from mental health issues, because you would sure not be supportive and would make everything worse. Seriously, people like you are why there is a stigma surrounding mental health issues, and why so many people suffer alone, in silence, when they should and could be getting help!
Stop name calling. Support is not always here is a blanket just sit I'm the corner here while we make you feel special.

Support for Gracie would have been telling her...and not allowing her (hello USFSA) not to compete when she was in no shape to compete


This is someone who is fragile
Someone who had to take a vacay at a facility where she could get help for a myriad of issues. Whoever allowed or supported Gracie stepping on that ice in Russia was not looking out for Gracie.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,044
Crossposting from Secret Sources:

I really don't see how anyone can blame USFSA for Gracie competing at Rostelecom. USFSA didn't even list her in the international assignment pool prior to her being named to the GP. It pretty clearly wasn't their idea. And since she earned the GP spot, I certainly don't think they should have stepped in and refused to let her compete if she wanted to do it. (I think she should have saved the invite, but if she didn't realize that back in June, well she learned something from the experience at least).

I also don't see why Gracie withdrawing would be a surprise to anyone. I mean, most of us have been watching that list with more of an is-she-really-going-to-stay-on-it mindset. If you did buy a ticket only to see Gracie--and, yes, I can imagine that some of her most loyal fans may have done so out of sheer optimism or out of their or their parents' failure to follow the sport closely, then those fans will be disappointed. But, well, lesson learned. (Happened to me various times while I was growing up, though in those cases I or my family purchased the tickets to see my favorite athletes perform in shows rather than in actual competitions). Plus, post-Olympic season and all that. (I loved all of those shows, BTW, despite missing my favorites).

If Gracie got something out of this season, I hope it was the realization that the opinions of the press and various skating fans on various discussion boards are of no import whatsoever. My best guess is that she has gotten that message. Ixnay on the days when she was feeling trapped in the sponsorship tangle. Get healthy. Get ready. And go out and compete if she can accomplish those two things. Maybe starting with a nice club competition during the off-season when everyone pretty much sucks? I still have no expectations for Gracie as a competitor; but if she has expectations for herself and is willing to put in the very hard work it takes to return to a competitive level at Nationals, more power to her.

Christine Brennan's opinion is of no interest to me whatsoever.
 

olympic

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I have not posted on FSU for almost a week, because of real life/business related issues. In those issues there were deadlines, contracts, numbers, criteria, performance and results. Totally different mind set where people are held accountable and must fulfill their obligations NO MATTER WHAT MOOD they are in, if they did or not gain 5 pounds, if they feel blue or pink or purple, or bad or good, or whatever…. And here I come to FSU, and there we have it, another sob story for Gracie (and prior to that for many other skaters from all countries).

This whole issue with “mental problems” ever since I came to USA in the mid 70’s, seemed like a bad Woody Allen movie. Every time someone feels bad, inadequate, sulky, disappointed, confused the issue of therapist, sociologist, psychologist, psychoanalyst, etc., comes up…. Instead of picking up a shovel and doing some digging in their back yard, or going for a jog, people start digging into their “feeeeeeeelings” and “emoooootions” like in a pile of their own excrements looking for micro-worms.

Millions of soldiers returned home injured after WWII, and they did not sulk or had a chance to feel depressed. They had to find work to support their families. All the killings and horror they witnessed did not affect their need to survive, without legs, arms and other defects.

My grandfather’s brother, came out of a concentration camp, ended up with is own business in South Africa, 5 years later. He told me stories about people in his barracks, people of SAME age. Some just remained on their bunker-bed, depressed, did not get to eat, or to work, and they were shot. And others, in the SAME situation, treasured every hour of life, picked up those bricks and those shovels, even if it was forced labor, but every move they made was a “gift” and a symbol “we’re alive”, and every minute of hardship was a gift of life as well, because they were alive and knew what they had to do to live another hour.
We can definitely have a discussion about complaints for unimportant reasons. I am a vet myself, and I see whiners at work and in every day life. I wonder to myself: "How the hell would they have survived WW2 rationing or even combat."

But, soldiers returned from many wars with psychological problems: After WWI, it was labeled shell-shock, later, it was called PTSD after Vietnam. So, they were tough on the outside but I imagine so many more than we can imagine suffered greatly on the inside, but never let anyone know about it. Nevertheless, it probably manifested itself in alcoholism, abuse, etc. because no one talked back then. Noble but damaging.

Skating is a sport and it's all important to its participants. The fearless tend to thrive but those w/ fear hold themselves back. It is up to the athlete to listen and find that path. No one can force it on them. We just all have to be patient and wait for them to do so.
 
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