U.S. Women [#2]: The Unbearable Lightness of Beijing

[ptvvibezz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1490877201599844371

 

[sk9tingfan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1490877201599844371

Wish I could see her feet, but the ID info exactly covers them.

 

[feraina]

If she could stay on her feet for the 3A in the LP, that would already be really good, even if it’s UR. the trouble is that she’s often fallen on that jump. That really hurts her score.

 

[feraina]

I can’t believe how tall Alysa looks. She’s really grown up!

 

[VGThuy]

I’m going to repost what I wrote in another thread:

On YouTube, a few geoblocked videos have been uploaded by NBC and it’s nice to see Karen Chen’s Butterfly Lovers LP being one of the most viewed among the other videos of skaters placing high. All of the comments I’ve read (I haven’t read all of them obvs because there are too many) have been overwhelmingly positive and saying how beautiful of a skater she is. I love that for her.

 

[Frau Muller]

Alysa looking great! She is Team USA’s biggest hope in the indiv women’s event. End mediocrity!

 

[Rukia]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1490912305365884929

Local news station had a story about Amber Glenn last night. She talks about continuing next season. I'm happy to see her keep trying, and I hope she can get that 3ax out there in competition.

 

[SidelineSkater]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1490912305365884929

Local news station had a story about Amber Glenn last night. She talks about continuing next season. I'm happy to see her keep trying, and I hope she can get that 3ax out there in competition.

Quick, somebody fax @AngieNikodinovLove

 

[DreamSkates]

All three of the American ladies have underrotation problems, it’s our national landmark at this point.

Sad. This makes me sad that our ladies are known for this and sad that no one has been able to correct this. Karen and Mariah have had plenty of time after puberty. Understandable that Alyssa is still adjusting.

 

[Allskate]

Sad. This makes me sad that our ladies are known for this and sad that no one has been able to correct this. Karen and Mariah have had plenty of time after puberty. Understandable that Alyssa is still adjusting.

Ashley Wagner had an interesting segment on Olympic Ice discussing women's quads and jump technique. She pointed out that the reason the Russian women like Kamila are able to land quads is because they pre-rotate - which is fine under the rules - and that putting her arms above her head helps her rotate faster because of centrifugal force. If you are taught to jump that way at an early age, it is much easier to do that than if you have been jumping a different way for many years.

I don't think it's really that easy to just "adjust." (But it is pretty easy for us to just say that they should adjust.) Brian spoke about how the skating technique that he used when he was trying to learn the quad is totally different from the technique being used today and he wished that he had been taught differently.

IMO, if American skaters are going to be more competitive again on the international stage, then coaches have to start teaching girls a different technique earlier.

Also, I'm not convinced that everything the Russian girls are doing to be able to rotate so quickly is necessarily healthy.

 

[DreamSkates]

I'll just put it out there: the OP has NO idea what they are talking about regarding mental health. Just to qualify what I am going to say, I have a PhD in counseling and am a licensed professional clinical counselor and a licensed advanced alcohol and drug counselor. I am a professor of counseling and am clinic director of a mental health clinic. The demand for mental health services is higher than it has ever been. The need for children and adolescents to have counseling is overwhelming. The demand from all people (at least in the US) is through the roof, and there are not enough mental health professionals to serve all who are asking for help with their mental health. I will leave it at that.

Thank you for all you are doing on behalf of children and youth. I see this great need in friends and family and how as adults they would be functioning in healthier ways had there been therapies available years ago minus the stigma of having such a need. I also have had quite a journey finding healing from the past into finding healthy ways of thinking and living. But it has taken me 60+ years to find my way there.

Ashley Wagner had an interesting segment on Olympic Ice discussing women's quads and jump technique. She pointed out that the reason the Russian women like Kamila are able to land quads is because they pre-rotate - which is fine under the rules - and that putting her arms above her head helps her rotate faster because of centrifugal force. If you are taught to jump that way at an early age, it is much easier to do that than if you have been jumping a different way for many years.

I don't think it's really that easy to just "adjust." (But it is pretty easy for us to just say that they should adjust.) Brian spoke about how the skating technique that he used when he was trying to learn the quad is totally different from the technique being used today and he wished that he had been taught differently.

IMO, if American skaters are going to be more competitive again on the international stage, then coaches have to start teaching girls a different technique earlier.

Also, I'm not convinced that everything the Russian girls are doing to be able to rotate so quickly is necessarily healthy.

YES!

 

[overedge]

Also, I'm not convinced that everything the Russian girls are doing to be able to rotate so quickly is necessarily healthy.

THIS

 

[Trillian]

Also, I'm not convinced that everything the Russian girls are doing to be able to rotate so quickly is necessarily healthy.

Idk, when I try to bring that up, I’m told it’s normal for people to have long-term health consequences from their childhood participation in sports, but also that they’re not having long-term health consequences on a regular basis, but on the off chance they are, it’s completely normal and we shouldn’t care about it and we actually need more children in other countries to do the same thing so that grown adults can enjoy watching them do the spinny things. Or something. It’s hard to keep track of which reason we’re not supposed to be concerned.

 

[natsulian]

Alysa Liu's practice notes from what I saw on Peacock:

2A, 3Lo, 3Lz, 2A, 3A(q), run through (2A, 3Lo, 3F, 1A, 3Lz1T, 3F2T, and 2A), 3Lz3T, 3Lz, 3Lz3T, 3Lz1Eu3S, 2A, 3A(<?), 3A(q?), 1A, 1A, 3A(q), 3Lz3T, 3Lz3T, 3F, 3F, 2A, 2A, 3T, 3S, and 3T

Liu landed 26 triples, 5 triple triples, and four triple-Axels. Liu attempted 6 triple-Axels, landed four of them, and singled two. Very nice speed throughout her practice. They attempted a few single-Axels with both arms behind her back (woah) and laughed when they singled her jumps in the run-through. Overall, Liu seems well grounded and conditioned.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Quick, somebody fax @AngieNikodinovLove

Thank you for being the wind beneath my wings, your fax came through at the right time today. And I still have fax paper left.

 

[ptvvibezz]

Gracie is planning on writing a memoir and will appear on Peacock presumably with Kevin Hart and Joel McHale.

Gracie Gold on Instagram: "Had the BEST time filming this past weekend with @kevinhart4real and @joelmchale! Tune into @peacockTV to watch us talk skating, the Olympics, and my upcoming memoir! 👀📖"

17K likes, 131 comments - graciegold95 on February 9, 2022: "Had the BEST time filming this past weekend with @kevinhart4real and @joelmchale! Tune into @peacockTV to watch us talk skating, the Olympics, and my upcoming memoir! 👀📖".

www.instagram.com

 

[tylersf]

Let's hope for the best for our USA female skaters!

 

[bytheriver]

Gracie is planning on writing a memoir and will appear on Peacock presumably with Kevin Hart and Joel McHale.

Gracie Gold on Instagram: "Had the BEST time filming this past weekend with @kevinhart4real and @joelmchale! Tune into @peacockTV to watch us talk skating, the Olympics, and my upcoming memoir! 👀📖"

17K likes, 131 comments - graciegold95 on February 9, 2022: "Had the BEST time filming this past weekend with @kevinhart4real and @joelmchale! Tune into @peacockTV to watch us talk skating, the Olympics, and my upcoming memoir! 👀📖".

www.instagram.com

Now this I would definitely read, especially given Gracie’s natural sense of humor and the fact that she isn’t under Yuki’s PR agent thumb.

 

[natsulian]

Practice run-through notes:

Alysa Liu - 2A, 3F, and 3Lz3T

Karen Chen - 2A3T, 3F(!), 3S, 3Lo, 3Lz2T2Lo, 3Lz(q?), and 3Lo(q?)2T

Mariah Bell - 3F3T(<<?), 3Lo, 2A, 3S, 3F2T2Lo, 3Lz2T, and 3Lz

 

[giselle23]

If she could stay on her feet for the 3A in the LP, that would already be really good, even if it’s UR. the trouble is that she’s often fallen on that jump. That really hurts her score.

Agree. The 3A, even if UR, is worth it unless there is a fall.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Agree. The 3A, even if UR, is worth it unless there is a fall.

Yes the Olympics is when you put this out there, I say go for the risks at the Olympics. This happens once every four years. It’s not like they’ll will get anywhere close to the top five without a big trick anyway

 

[olympic]

Practice run-through notes:

Alysa Liu - 2A, 3F, and 3Lz3T

Karen Chen - 2A3T, 3F(!), 3S, 3Lo, 3Lz2T2Lo, 3Lz(q?), and 3Lo(q?)2T

Mariah Bell - 3F3T(<<?), 3Lo, 2A, 3S, 3F2T2Lo, 3Lz2T, and 3Lz

They look fairly stable. Glad to see Mariah back to 7 triples

 

[Allskate]

They look fairly stable. Glad to see Mariah back to 7 triples

When you look at all of her practices, her harder triples and the 3/3s have not been that great and Jackie said that she has not been having very good practices. But, he also said yesterday that they were looking better. She has been practicing a bunch of 3F 2axel sequences. I'm guessing that they will make a call closer to the event on whether to go for the 3/3.

Alyssa has not landed many clean 3axels and has had some falls, but it may be worth it go for them.

 

[Bouffantrex]

I'm so excited to see Alysa's triple axel is back!

 

[DreamSkates]

Ashley Wagner had an interesting segment on Olympic Ice discussing women's quads and jump technique. She pointed out that the reason the Russian women like Kamila are able to land quads is because they pre-rotate - which is fine under the rules - and that putting her arms above her head helps her rotate faster because of centrifugal force. If you are taught to jump that way at an early age, it is much easier to do that than if you have been jumping a different way for many years.

I don't think it's really that easy to just "adjust." (But it is pretty easy for us to just say that they should adjust.) Brian spoke about how the skating technique that he used when he was trying to learn the quad is totally different from the technique being used today and he wished that he had been taught differently.

IMO, if American skaters are going to be more competitive again on the international stage, then coaches have to start teaching girls a different technique earlier.

Also, I'm not convinced that everything the Russian girls are doing to be able to rotate so quickly is necessarily healthy.

Well now we know there may be more to that story than meets the eye. And training.

 

[screech]

Ashley Wagner had an interesting segment on Olympic Ice discussing women's quads and jump technique. She pointed out that the reason the Russian women like Kamila are able to land quads is because they pre-rotate - which is fine under the rules - and that putting her arms above her head helps her rotate faster because of centrifugal force. If you are taught to jump that way at an early age, it is much easier to do that than if you have been jumping a different way for many years.

IMO there should be a limit on how many jumps can be arms up to get GOE points. It makes me think of when the ISU realized they needed to put a limit on the number of Bielllman positions that were being done in each program. Or when Alina took advantage of putting every single jump in the second half of her programs. Maybe something like only 4 jumping passes, max, can have the Rippon position?

Also, Eteri's girls aren't the only ones who prerotate, though it seems to be the only group where almost everyone does so. To me the most glaring prerotation, even without the use of slo-mo, is Shoma's quad flip.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Dead. Horse.

We shall please not evoke the vision of a dead horse.! My man Cord...best house ever would be insulted.

 

[AxelAnnie]

IMO there should be a limit on how many jumps can be arms up to get GOE points. It makes me think of when the ISU realized they needed to put a limit on the number of Bielllman positions that were being done in each program. Or when Alina took advantage of putting every single jump in the second half of her programs. Maybe something like only 4 jumping passes, max, can have the Rippon position?

Also, Eteri's girls aren't the only ones who prerotate, though it seems to be the only group where almost everyone does so. To me the most glaring prerotation, even without the use of slo-mo, is Shoma's quad flip.

I am right there with you! Pre rotating should get.the same deduction as under rotation.

 

[gkelly]

IMO there should be a limit on how many jumps can be arms up to get GOE points. It makes me think of when the ISU realized they needed to put a limit on the number of Bielllman positions that were being done in each program. Or when Alina took advantage of putting every single jump in the second half of her programs. Maybe something like only 4 jumping passes, max, can have the Rippon position?

For level features on spins, pair lifts, etc., the tech panel will always call a feature if it meets the requirements for that feature on that element type -- within any limits on the maximum number of times that feature may be awarded or attempted.

All limits that have been introduced to how many times something can be rewarded are related to level features, or to numbers of each type of element permitted in the short program or well-balanced program requirements.

For GOE positive bullet points on jumps, the process is different.

First of all, it's in the judges' hands, not the tech panel's, and judges have more discretion about when to award bullet points or not.

The tech panel's job is all about keeping track of WHAT the skater did, including how many of each what.

The judges' job is all about evaluating HOW WELL each element, and the program as a whole, was performed.

Tech panels do a lot of counting. Under IJS, judges are not asked to count.

And there was never any guaranteed reward for jumping with arms overhead (or any other variation).

In the +3/-3 bullet points, "varied position in the air / delay in rotation" was one bullet point (when two were needed for each plus).

Probably as written it was originally intended ore to reward variations more like delayed axel or tuck axel, but the rewards for those positions on single axels were not sufficient to encourage junior/senior skaters to include single axels, or other intentional single or double jumps with air variations, in their free skates.

Many skaters did include arm variations, and judges did seem to reward them, so more skaters started including the same variation on more of their jumps.

We'll never know exactly how much different judges did award that bullet point, although if the jumps were getting +3s and some of the other bullets could be obviously seen not to apply, then that probably was awarded.

But they weren't required to reward the same variation every time it was applied, especially if executed poorly.

With the change to the +5/-5 rules, the wording of that bullet point also changed. Now it reads "very good body position from take-off to landing."

So judges can reward a standard air position every time it's performed well and accompanied good takeoff and landing positions. They can also reward a variation in air position (e.g., arm(s) overhead) every time it's performed well and accompanied good takeoff and landing positions, and not reward the same variation on any occasion when position(s) in any part of the element are not very good.

So now skaters have no reason to use a less standard air position if it doesn't improve the quality of the position, but they do have reason to use it on most or all of their jumps if that is the position in which they can achieve the best results.

So think of arms up as similar to arms to chest, or crossing the non-landing foot in front of the ankle of the landing foot -- according to the current rules it's not rewarded because it's a variation, but only if it results in better execution.

There's nothing in the current GOE rules to reward variety of air positions in jumps. But if a skater does show variety, judges could give them credit in the Composition score.

 

[Bouffantrex]

IMO there should be a limit on how many jumps can be arms up to get GOE points

Contrary to what Johnny and Tara are telling us on a constant basis, I thought arms over the head was eliminated as a GOE bulletpoint a few years back?