U.S. Women [#2]: The Unbearable Lightness of Beijing

[Karen-W]

She also has the advantage of being able to be strategic. She needs to finish in3rd place. If others are meh, so can do a 3-2 and get third.

Exactly. She'll know before she skates how Higuchi did and what she needs to place 3rd (or even possibly 2nd).

 

[clairecloutier]

I have already posted a link to statistics that support what I said. Neither you nor anyone else has backed up claims to the contrary.

If I recall correctly, your statistics were from 2019. At that point, mental health issues for youth had already significantly risen since 2010. With the pandemic, it is anecdotally reported in many places that mental health issues for youth have increased still further, perhaps substantially. The U.S. Surgeon General recently released an advisory on it (see below). Meanwhile, stigmatization of receiving mental health services has declined. Although there are not hard statistics for all of this, the consistency of reporting about it should not be ignored. In any case, even 13.6% of the youth population (was that the figure?) seeing a therapist does not make something abnormal. That's like saying that being left-handed (similar or lesser percentage) is abnormal. In either case, it may not be the dominant condition in a population, but neither is it abnormal. Also, I would argue that numbers of youth consulting with therapists might well be higher if there was more availability of mental health professionals in this country.

Why 1,320 Therapists Are Worried About Mental Health in America Right Now (Published 2021)

Frontline mental health workers in every state say they can’t keep up with the demand from patients struggling with the disruptions of pandemic life.

www.nytimes.com

About 13 percent of the therapists surveyed said their practices focused primarily on children and adolescents. Their responses echoed a recent advisory from Dr. Vivek H. Murthy, the U.S. Surgeon General, who warned this month that the pandemic had intensified mental health issues among the young.

“I don’t have room for anyone else right now, but the calls keep coming,” said Pooja Sharma, a clinical psychologist in Berkeley, Calif. “It might be some years before we have some sense of normalcy in mental health for children.”

2021-12-30 15:27 | Archive of HHS.gov

www.hhs.gov

"Even before the pandemic, an alarming number of young people struggled with feelings of helplessness, depression, and thoughts of suicide — and rates have increased over the past decade,” said Surgeon General Vivek Murthy. “The COVID-19 pandemic further altered their experiences at home, school, and in the community, and the effect on their mental health has been devastating."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/child-psychiatrist-counselor-shortage-mental-health-crisis/2021/08/13/844a036a-f950-11eb-9c0e-97e29906a970_story.html

From June of last year to late this past spring, an average of five children a week were being admitted to the medical school’s teaching hospital at East Carolina University in Greenville, N.C., after overdosing on medications such as acetaminophen, opiates, antidepressants and even Ritalin.


John Diamond and his colleagues had never seen anything like it. “Normally,” he says, “we see five kids a month.”
Diamond, director of the school’s division of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, is on the front lines of a coronavirus-aggravated crisis. There simply aren’t enough psychiatrists, psychologists, developmental pediatricians or school psychologists to care for the mental health needs of the country’s children, say parents, doctors, and professional associations.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/01/30/public-education-crisis-enrollment-violence/

Teresa Rennie, an eighth-grade math and science teacher in Philadelphia, said in 11 years of teaching, she has never referred this many children to counseling.

“So many students are needy. They have deficits academically. They have deficits socially,” she said. Rennie said that she’s drained, too. “I get 45 minutes of a prep most days, and a lot of times during that time I’m helping a student with an assignment, or a child is crying and I need to comfort them and get them the help they need ...."

 

[Sylvia]

I was hoping the thread I started almost 2 years ago might be used for mental health discussions... just sayin' ... - link: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ng-disorders-a-news-discussion-thread.107347/

Phil Hersh's article today (Feb. 5):

With a likely Olympic team medal, Karen Chen can fill another gap in her career record

Longtime figure skating journalist Philip Hersh chronicles Karen Chen's journey to the Olympic team event.

www.nbcolympics.com

Excerpt:

Chen’s selection over Bell is somewhat unexpected, given that her career record includes consistent inconsistency, and she finished (a close) second to Bell in the short program at nationals. But Chen has proven to be able to get results when the U.S. team needed them most.
In both 2017 and 2021, her surprising fourth-place results at the world championships were critical to the U.S. earning a third women’s singles spot at the Olympics.
“Sometimes when I am having a bad day, I will think, `Okay, you may be having a bad day, but past Karen did all these incredible things,’” Chen said in late December. [...]
“I know in 2018 I felt very overwhelmed with everything going on,” she said this week. “I was so used to competitions where it was just figure skating. At the Olympics, there was so much else to think about and deal with. Now that I’ve had that experience, I’m just excited to embrace this whole opportunity.”

 

[olympic]

Karen skates 2nd to last, before Kamila and after Wakaba. Maddie Schizas is the 1st skater of the last group and A. Gubanova is in the 1st group. We will know what she needs to do ...

 

[bcash]

I wonder how much of a role Bell's post-COVID fitness level played in Team USA putting in Karen Chen. Really disappointed with Chen's skate after the strong showing from other US skaters on Day 1.

 

[carriecmu0503]

If I recall correctly, your statistics were from 2019. At that point, mental health issues for youth had already significantly risen since 2010. With the pandemic, it is anecdotally reported in many places that mental health issues for youth have increased still further, perhaps substantially. The U.S. Surgeon General recently released an advisory on it (see below). Meanwhile, stigmatization of receiving mental health services has declined. Although there are not hard statistics for all of this, the consistency of reporting about it should not be ignored. In any case, even 13.6% of the youth population (was that the figure?) seeing a therapist does not make something abnormal. That's like saying that being left-handed (similar or lesser percentage) is abnormal. In either case, it may not be the dominant condition in a population, but neither is it abnormal. Also, I would argue that numbers of youth consulting with therapists might well be higher if there was more availability of mental health professionals in this country.

Why 1,320 Therapists Are Worried About Mental Health in America Right Now (Published 2021)

Frontline mental health workers in every state say they can’t keep up with the demand from patients struggling with the disruptions of pandemic life.

www.nytimes.com

2021-12-30 15:27 | Archive of HHS.gov

www.hhs.gov

If I recall correctly, your statistics were from 2019. At that point, mental health issues for youth had already significantly risen since 2010. With the pandemic, it is anecdotally reported in many places that mental health issues for youth have increased still further, perhaps substantially. The U.S. Surgeon General recently released an advisory on it (see below). Meanwhile, stigmatization of receiving mental health services has declined. Although there are not hard statistics for all of this, the consistency of reporting about it should not be ignored. In any case, even 13.6% of the youth population (was that the figure?) seeing a therapist does not make something abnormal. That's like saying that being left-handed (similar or lesser percentage) is abnormal. In either case, it may not be the dominant condition in a population, but neither is it abnormal. Also, I would argue that numbers of youth consulting with therapists might well be higher if there was more availability of mental health professionals in this country.

Why 1,320 Therapists Are Worried About Mental Health in America Right Now (Published 2021)

Frontline mental health workers in every state say they can’t keep up with the demand from patients struggling with the disruptions of pandemic life.

www.nytimes.com

2021-12-30 15:27 | Archive of HHS.gov

www.hhs.gov

I'll just put it out there: the OP has NO idea what they are talking about regarding mental health. Just to qualify what I am going to say, I have a PhD in counseling and am a licensed professional clinical counselor and a licensed advanced alcohol and drug counselor. I am a professor of counseling and am clinic director of a mental health clinic. The demand for mental health services is higher than it has ever been. The need for children and adolescents to have counseling is overwhelming. The demand from all people (at least in the US) is through the roof, and there are not enough mental health professionals to serve all who are asking for help with their mental health. I will leave it at that.

 

[kris2ffer]

I wonder how much of a role Bell's post-COVID fitness level played in Team USA putting in Karen Chen. Really disappointed with Chen's skate after the strong showing from other US skaters on Day 1.

Per Karen Chen's post interview after the team SP, she was already chosen to skate for the team right after Nationals. Even after just losing and Mariah Bell winning nationals.

“I hope I gave at least some part of my soul to the judges, spectators and coaches.” Kamila Valieva and Karen Chen comments after skates

I hope I gave at least some part of my soul to the judges, spectators and coaches

fs-gossips.com

 

[Allskate]

Per Karen Chen's post interview after the team SP, she was already chosen to skate for the team right after Nationals. Even after just losing and Mariah Bell winning nationals.

Mariah tested positive right after Nationals, right? So, it may be that they chose Karen then because Karen was the one who was most likely to get the negative tests in time to get to Beijing and acclimate in time for the team event. I could see the argument for using either Mariah and Karen, so maybe this was the deciding factor. I prefer Mariah to Karen, but we'll never know how Mariah would have done. It's really a shame about the loop because Karen did a beautiful one in the warm up. You could see just before she skated that she was really trying to loosen up. At least she didn't let the fall affect the rest of her performance. I hope she can put it behind her for the rest of the Olympics.

More from Karen

Elliott: Karen Chen struggles as the U.S. loses lead in figure skating team competition

Karen Chen fell trying to pull off her triple loop in the team competition at the Beijing Olympics as the U.S. lost its lead to the Russian team.

news.yahoo.com

She said the triple loop hadn’t been bothering her here, at least until Sunday. “Practices here in general have been very solid for me, like the best I’ve ever felt on practices,” she said. “But I will be honest. This morning when I did my warmup practice I just felt a little, like, tense. I think the idea of competing started to sink in. so I was just feeling a little tense, like my whole body and whatnot.

“But I’m really proud of just how I fought through that program and really attacked. Yes, I did fall, but I went for it. I didn’t just chicken out of it, so I am definitely proud of that.”

It’s unclear whether Karen Chen will also compete on Monday. [/unquote]

I really, really hope that Chock and Bates do not lose the opportunity to compete in the team event.

 

[skatingguy]

I really, really hope that Chock and Bates do not lose the opportunity to compete in the team event.

Why would they?

 

[Allskate]

Why would they?

The article I quoted said that it is unclear whether Karen will compete on Monday. If she doesn't skate on Monday, then it seems that Chock and Bates would not be allowed to compete. They've already substituted Vincent for Nathan. As I understand it, they can only substitute one more. I doubt they will take Karen out, though. There isn't likely to be a big difference between the results of any of three American women in the LP since it is placement and not scores that matter. Realistically, none of the three American women are going to come out ahead against the Russian or Japanese skaters and both will come out ahead of the Chinese skater.

 

[skatingguy]

The article I quoted said that it is unclear whether Karen will compete on Monday. If she doesn't skate on Monday, then it seems that Chock and Bates would not be allowed to compete. They've already substituted Vincent for Nathan. As I understand it, they can only substitute one more. I doubt they will take Karen out, though. There isn't likely to be a big difference between the results of any of three American women in the LP since it is placement and not scores that matter. Realistically, none of the three American women are going to come out ahead against the Russian or Japanese skaters and both will come out ahead of the Chinese skater.

Chock/Bates have already been confirmed for the Free Dance.

 

[Karen-W]

Chock/Bates have already been confirmed for the Free Dance.

Well, nothing is confirmed until we see the start lists, however I don't think the USFS is going to screw ChoBat since they've been at the press conferences and speaking very well on behalf of the entire team. I think the USFS would get bombarded on social media if they did that to ChoBat (and rightly so).

 

[Andrea82]

Well, nothing is confirmed until we see the start lists, however I don't think the USFS is going to screw ChoBat since they've been at the press conferences and speaking very well on behalf of the entire team. I think the USFS would get bombarded on social media if they did that to ChoBat (and rightly so).

Also I don't think they have much to gain from shafting them.
Gold is gone at this point.
In the worst scenario (for USA) I would have Chen #4 (surely she can't drop below the Chinese entry) and Japan #2 in Ladies, Knierim/Fraser #5 and Japan #2 (that is without Sui/Han for China) in Pairs, Chock/Bates #2 and Japan #5 in ID....it should still produce a 1 point lead over Japan.
Yes, in theory, they can tie if Chock/Bates end up below Canada but really the Pair scenario above is really worst case in terms of combinations.

 

[Karen-W]

Also I don't think they have much to gain from shafting them.
Gold is gone at this point.
In the worst scenario I would have Chen #4 (surely she can't drop below the Chinese entry) and Japan #2 in Ladies, Knierim/Fraser #5 and Japan #2 (that is without Sui/Han for China) in Pairs, Chock/Bates #2 and Japan #5 in ID....it should still produce a 1 point lead over Japan.
Yes, in theory, they can tie if Chock/Bates end up below Canada but really the Pair scenario above is really worst case in terms of combinations.

Agreed. Though given there was a pretty bad collision during practice between James/Radford and DM/Guarise which had Vanessa leaving the ice very gingerly, I'm not sure that they're going to be able to skate in the FS tomorrow. If that happens, the worst KniFraz will wind up is 4th in the FS (ain't no way that M-T/M beat KniFraz).

And a tie is going to be broken by the two highest segment scores which would give the US the silver since they have the two 1st places in the SP/RD.

 

[Frau Muller]

I’m looking forward to a lovely Butterfly Lovers FS from Karen in the last leg of the TE. Karen is still the stronger of the two US women here. She has the better chance of topping Schizas for 3rd in the TE FS.

Bell is a middle-America crowd pleaser. She can help with marketing skating among the once-every-four-year traditional TV crowd.

 

[Jammers]

I’m looking forward to a lovely Butterfly Lovers FS from Karen in the last leg of the TE. Karen is still the stronger of the two US women here. She has the better chance of topping Schizas for 3rd in the TE FS.

Bell is a middle-America crowd pleaser. She can help with marketing skating among the once-every-four-year traditional TV crowd.

Really? So that's why Mariah beat both of Karen's LP scores on the GP this season and by a good margin? This nonsense that Karen is good under pressure has to stop she had a couple of 4th place finishes at Worlds when it was a dreadful splatfest and both time she fell in the LP should tell you something. Bell has GP medals and Karen doesn't have much of anything for this Olympic cycle except constant underachieving for her talent.

 

[Karen-W]

Whew... No worries that the USFS would screw ChoBat - Karen is going in the FS and ChoBat are up for the FD.

 

[zigzig]

makes sense - swapping mariah for karen would have made no diff in the final ranking anyway

 

[zigzig]

Really? So that's why Mariah beat both of Karen's LP scores on the GP this season and by a good margin? This nonsense that Karen is good under pressure has to stop she had a couple of 4th place finishes at Worlds when it was a dreadful splatfest and both time she fell in the LP should tell you something. Bell has GP medals and Karen doesn't have much of anything for this Olympic cycle except constant underachieving for her talent.

I wish karen had better jumps and more consistency too but to give credit where credit is due both of those 4th place finishes helped secure 3 spots to two olympics soooo...

 

[orbitz]

To quote Janet Jackson: "What have you done for me lately?" You can't rest on your past achievements. You need to produce every time when it counts. And to Karen's credit, she herself has said in interviews that her 4th placement at World last year was due to other mistakes.

 

[olympic]

After the 3-3, I thought Karen was on her way to a clean performance, UGH! Her remarks afterwards. She just doesn't seem to have that killer instinct that successful top competitors have to successfully power through high-pressure / high-stakes competitions. I also wonder why officials or her coaching team did not try to fix the delayed rotation, develop a better snap and tighten the rotations way back when that would get rid of the carrot cake. I always felt that she had immense talent to be at the top.

 

[sjs5572]

Per Karen Chen's post interview after the team SP, she was already chosen to skate for the team right after Nationals. Even after just losing and Mariah Bell winning nationals.

“I hope I gave at least some part of my soul to the judges, spectators and coaches.” Kamila Valieva and Karen Chen comments after skates

I hope I gave at least some part of my soul to the judges, spectators and coaches

fs-gossips.com

Why was the Fed in so much of a rush to select team event? Especially considering that UR were probably not going to be ignored by Oly tech panel, as they were at Nationals.

 

[VGThuy]

Why was the Fed in so much of a rush to select team event? Especially considering that UR were probably not going to be ignored by Oly tech panel, as they were at Nationals.

It wasn’t ignored at Nationals. She got a call on it like she did earlier that season. Her under was worse at the team event than it was at nationals and I think she knew it was. I sort of saw it in her face.

 

[CassAgain]

I prefer Mariah’s skating slightly to Karen’s, but they are so close in their toolboxes, I suspect the result would have been similar, and almost certainly not enough to really move the USA gold hopes further. While I am fighting feelings of disappointment and annoyance, if Mariah had been chosen, I would probably be fighting sheepish and sad.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

The hole in our ladies' team should of been filled by Bradie. She does have a competitive instinct. She can make mistakes at times, but I think she would have risen to the occasion here. I wish Karen the best tomorrow. She should be 3rd. No idea if she will do it.

 

[Sonata]

I feel bad for Karen. She landed her 3-3, so unfortunate about the 3-loop. Hope this doesn’t play with her head. I don’t think this means it was a mistake at all to choose her. Mariah probably would have done 3-2 and possibly not made top 3 either. Yeah I know she landed 3-3 and there’s been debate about whether it was clean. I think both women have similar inconsistent histories and they also have similar strengths. Both are wonderful to watch and were consistent at Nationals. But skating for your team at Olympics is a different beast.

 

[carriecmu0503]

I feel bad for Karen. She landed her 3-3, so unfortunate about the 3-loop. Hope this doesn’t play with her head. I don’t think this means it was a mistake at all to choose her. Mariah probably would have done 3-2 and possibly not made top 3 either. Yeah I know she landed 3-3 and there’s been debate about whether it was clean. I think both women have similar inconsistent histories and they also have similar strengths. Both are wonderful to watch and were consistent at Nationals. But skating for your team at Olympics is a different beast.

No, she did not. It was under-rotated. Therefore, it did not count as a 3-3.

 

[topaz]

The hole in our ladies' team should of been filled by Bradie. She does have a competitive instinct. She can make mistakes at times, but I think she would have risen to the occasion here. I wish Karen the best tomorrow. She should be 3rd. No idea if she will do it.

Hmmm, Bradie has possibly a career ending injury. She has not be able to land triple jumps for most of Olympic season. It was not an option.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Hmmm, Bradie has possibly a career ending injury. She has not be able to land triple jumps for most of Olympic season. It was not an option.

Of course, everyone knows she was injured. Just talking about what should of happened. She was national champion last year ahead of Liu, Chen, everyone. And, she's a very reliable competitor. She's missed.

 

[vesperholly]

I feel bad for Karen. She landed her 3-3, so unfortunate about the 3-loop. Hope this doesn’t play with her head. I don’t think this means it was a mistake at all to choose her. Mariah probably would have done 3-2 and possibly not made top 3 either. Yeah I know she landed 3-3 and there’s been debate about whether it was clean. I think both women have similar inconsistent histories and they also have similar strengths. Both are wonderful to watch and were consistent at Nationals. But skating for your team at Olympics is a different beast.

Mariah beat a clean Schizas with a 3-2 at Rostelecom.