U.S. Women [#2]: The Unbearable Lightness of Beijing

[Sylvia]

This is one of the best articles I've seen on the subject.

I agree, which is why I've started a separate GSD thread (since it's not just about the U.S. women's "failings"):

Defector.com article on female skaters & Quads

Thanks @sheetz for posting this "food for thought" article link in the U.S. Women's thread. Since this topic is not just about the U.S. women, I feel it's worth creating its own thread for (hopefully) constructive discussion -- Kalyn Kahler is the same person who wrote the Sports Illustrated...

www.fsuniverse.net

 

[AYS]

...

US women are regressing! And I can just see USFSA hyping Levito and other up and comers just like they did for Gold. Thereby vastly increasing the pressure on them...

We'll see what the future brings but Levito strikes me as a pretty cool customer who seems like she'd be much less vulnerable to pressure-induced nerves than Gracie has always kind of been. I hope so, I find her skating really special and would love to see an upward trajectory for her.

 

[bytheriver]

We'll see what the future brings but Levito strikes me as a pretty cool customer who seems like she'd be much less vulnerable to pressure-induced nerves than Gracie has always kind of been. I hope so, I find her skating really special and would love to see an upward trajectory for her.

Not to be a Debbie Downer here, but this same rhetoric was used re: Alysa three years ago and look what it did to her. Isabeau hasn't matured yet, so we'll have to see how everything shakes out down the road. She also doesn't currently have the pressure that is attached to being the US #1. Consistency from her jump technique still working plus a lack of extreme pressure could be helping her significantly now, so let's hold off a bit before crowning her the future of US Figure Skating.

 

[Wyliefan]

My dad has declared himself a fan of Mariah Bell, based solely on an article about her bunnies and dog. He hasn't seen her skate yet, but he's a fan nonetheless.

 

[layman]

This is one of the best articles I've seen on the subject.

A couple of things from the article stood out to me:

1. No female skater has been able to successfully land a quad in competition past the age of 18 (Elizabet Tursynbaeva became the first senior woman to successfully land a quad, a quad salchow, at the age of 18 at the 2019 World Championships but then she had to retire prematurely after that season due to chronic back problems).

2. The Scotvolds were concerned about Nancy Kerrigan's health and well-being (and her longevity in the sport) and thus limited her practice of 3-axels and quads.

3. American coaches are squeamish about adopting the brutal training practices of the Russian coaches (that led to the premature retirements of Shelepen, Lipnitskaya, Medvedeva, Tursynbaeva and Zagitova).

​

 

[carriecmu0503]

A couple of things from the article stood out to me:

1. No female skater has been able to successfully land a quad in competition past the age of 18 (Elizabet Tursynbaeva became the first senior woman to successfully land a quad, a quad salchow, at the age of 18 at the 2019 World Championships but then she had to retire prematurely after that season due to chronic back problems).

2. The Scotvolds were concerned about Nancy Kerrigan's health and well-being (and her longevity in the sport) and thus limited her practice of 3-axels and quads.

3. American coaches are squeamish about adopting the brutal training practices of the Russian coaches (that led to the premature retirements of Shelepen, Lipnitskaya, Medvedeva, Tursynbaeva and Zagitova).

​

The Scotvolds, particularly Evy, did NOT care about Nancy's (or any of their skaters) health and well-being. They were among the absolute worst with tormenting skaters about their weight. Kerrigan has been vocal about it, as has Jenny Kirk and others. Read Little Girls in Pretty Boxes- the story about the Scotvolds is NOT pretty.

 

[becca]

A couple of things from the article stood out to me:

1. No female skater has been able to successfully land a quad in competition past the age of 18 (Elizabet Tursynbaeva became the first senior woman to successfully land a quad, a quad salchow, at the age of 18 at the 2019 World Championships but then she had to retire prematurely after that season due to chronic back problems).

2. The Scotvolds were concerned about Nancy Kerrigan's health and well-being (and her longevity in the sport) and thus limited her practice of 3-axels and quads.

3. American coaches are squeamish about adopting the brutal training practices of the Russian coaches (that led to the premature retirements of Shelepen, Lipnitskaya, Medvedeva, Tursynbaeva and Zagitova).

​

I didn’t get the idea that Zagitova quit due to injury. My understanding was she quit due to her young competitors with quads and triple axels.

As for 18 year old women not landing quads. I can count on maybe one hand women attempting quads at worlds before this Russian revolution. I think it’s a wait and see I don’t think Trusovas quads are going away.

Yes there are injury concerns but there are with men too.

I am not going to say Eteri is nice but I wouldn’t say the US system is perfect or that kids in sports in the US don’t end up injured.


I wonder if some of this is skating skills too. Many have commented on the speed Kamilla has and some others. Speed and power to land those quads.

I do think someone like Plushenko with Mishin’s technique will be able to give the girls good technique that can last.

 

[layman]

The Scotvolds, particularly Evy, did NOT care about Nancy's (or any of their skaters) health and well-being. They were among the absolute worst with tormenting skaters about their weight. Kerrigan has been vocal about it, as has Jenny Kirk and others. Read Little Girls in Pretty Boxes- the story about the Scotvolds is NOT pretty.

I am surprised too, but these were quotes from Nancy Kerrigan (in the article). This was what Nancy told the reporter about the Scotvolds (and her training).

 

[Sylvia]

I am surprised too, but these were quotes from Nancy Kerrigan (in the article). This was what Nancy told the reporter about the Scotvolds (and her training).

No, the journalist listened to David Santee's podcast chat with Nancy Kerrigan:

65. Nancy Kerrigan

Podcast Episode · Santee on Skates · 12/27/2021 · 38m

podcasts.apple.com

 

[Vash01]

A couple of things from the article stood out to me:

1. No female skater has been able to successfully land a quad in competition past the age of 18 (Elizabet Tursynbaeva became the first senior woman to successfully land a quad, a quad salchow, at the age of 18 at the 2019 World Championships but then she had to retire prematurely after that season due to chronic back problems).

2. The Scotvolds were concerned about Nancy Kerrigan's health and well-being (and her longevity in the sport) and thus limited her practice of 3-axels and quads.

3. American coaches are squeamish about adopting the brutal training practices of the Russian coaches (that led to the premature retirements of Shelepen, Lipnitskaya, Medvedeva, Tursynbaeva and Zagitova).

We will find out in a year if an 18 year old can land a quad in a competition (Sasha and Anna will be 18 in less than a year). We may even see a 25 year old (Liza) land one. She has landed them in practices and she wants to land it in a competition. She just didn't feel ready this year.

About Nancy and her coaches - I am surprised.

​

 

[PRlady]

A couple of things from the article stood out to me:

1. No female skater has been able to successfully land a quad in competition past the age of 18 (Elizabet Tursynbaeva became the first senior woman to successfully land a quad, a quad salchow, at the age of 18 at the 2019 World Championships but then she had to retire prematurely after that season due to chronic back problems).

2. The Scotvolds were concerned about Nancy Kerrigan's health and well-being (and her longevity in the sport) and thus limited her practice of 3-axels and quads.

3. American coaches are squeamish about adopting the brutal training practices of the Russian coaches (that led to the premature retirements of Shelepen, Lipnitskaya, Medvedeva, Tursynbaeva and Zagitova).

​

Don't forget Tsurskaya (serious injury at young age), Pogo and Sotskova. Not one lasted more than 1-2 years at the top.

 

[Sylvia]

As I mentioned earlier , I've started a separate GSD thread for discussion about the Defector.com article (since it's not just about U.S. female skaters) here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/defector-com-article-on-female-skaters-quads.109362/

 

[Sylvia]

Mariah has not been posting much on social media since she arrived in Beijing, but here's Adam's TikTok with her at the practice rink converted into an Instagram reel : https://www.instagram.com/reel/CZhHO09lXgM/

This article today is based on other sources:

Mariah Bell relishes ‘old’ title ahead of Olympic figure skating debut

Figure skater Mariah Bell is considered "old" in her sport, but she's seizing the opportunity in Beijing to deliver a message to female athletes everywhere.

sports.yahoo.com

NBC Sports Olympic Talk article by Nick Zaccardi:

Mariah Bell goes to the Olympics with her fairy godmother -- Adam Rippon

Mariah Bell and Adam Rippon's figure skating relationship as coach and student began with Dunkin' Donuts and will climax at the Beijing Olympics.

olympics.nbcsports.com

LA Times column by Helene Elliott (behind a paywall):

Elliott: Figure skater Mariah Bell proud she never gave up on Olympic dream

Mariah Bell's enduring passion for her sport sees her make the Olympics for the first time when most figure skaters her age are going into retirement.

www.latimes.com

ETA this photo & quote from the mixed zone on Feb. 3rd: https://twitter.com/LynnRutherford/status/1489153953053163520

Mariah Bell said triple-triples are "definitely" planned: "Flip-toe is feeling good, lutz-toe is feeling good. I've tried to up my number of them & they're feeling great. I've been working on nicer landings on flip & lutz alone, that helps make nice combos."

 

[Jayar]

JW Team:
Isabeau Levito
Clare Seo
Lindsay Thorngren

Alternate 1: Josephine Lee
Alternate 2: Kanon Smith
Alternate 3: Ava Ziegler

 

[sk9tingfan]

My dad has declared himself a fan of Mariah Bell, based solely on an article about her bunnies and dog. He hasn't seen her skate yet, but he's a fan nonetheless.

Tell him he should follow her on Instagram and raid her past stories on the bunnies and Nala, who hippity-hops just like a bunny. Also her parents' dog Ryder.

❤️🐰❤️ = @mariahsk8rbell

See Instagram '❤️🐰❤️' highlights from Mariah Bell 🔔 (@mariahsk8rbell)

www.instagram.com

Unfortunately, I can't find hopping Nala.....

 

[clairecloutier]

U.S. women's team for Junior Worlds:

Isabeau Levito, Clare Seo, Lindsay Thorngren

Alternates in order: Josephine Lee, Kanon Smith, Ava Ziegler

per USFS press release

 

[Sylvia]

Josephine Lee shared a bunch of photos from the Junior Worlds selection camp that was held this past Monday & Tuesday in Norwood, MA: https://www.instagram.com/p/CZezk-mpUOn/

She tagged Isabeau Levito, Clare Seo & Ava Ziegler; Kanon Smith, fresh off from Bavarian Open, was also there (looks like only 5 attended, based on the alternates?).

Lindsay Thorngren did not attend the camp (assume she's been training at home since she's the first alternate to the Olympics).

 

[DreamSkates]

Very surprising that coaches have to clear certain training methods with rink directors! (at least that's what I concluded from Raf's comment). If I were independently wealthy, I'd help Raf finance his academy. Not sure there is the will in USFSA to do that.

Although I don't think the uber-strict coaching style of Eteri would fly in the US, two things would really help with the 3axel/quad drought: START SKATERS YOUNG and train in groups. Both of which Raf could do, and could train other coaches to do.

US women are regressing! And I can just see USFSA hyping Levito and other up and comers just like they did for Gold. Thereby vastly increasing the pressure on them...

Yes it seems that USFS will hype a skater (and rightly so from what that skater demonstrates of their capabality) but come on, take some respsonsibility for training the next generation of skaters rather than leaving it up to one or two and putting the pressure on them. We've already compared here, many times, how many Russian skaters and even Japanese or Korean can easily surpass the US women on any given day.

 

[Maximillian]

I think people forget that the USFSA reason for existence is to organize and promote the sport. You promote the sport with skaters. Historically women skaters have been the most successful in terms of results and also due to the fact that until relatively recently women's options in terms of sport's participation were relatively limited, skating was one of two or three sports in the US where the women garnered more attention than the men and therefore women skaters garnered the most publicity. To suggest that the USFSA shouldn't 'hype' or 'promote' a skater who has been successful at some level seems to be asking them to go counter to their primary purpose.

 

[wickedwitch]

Josephine Lee shared a bunch of photos from the Junior Worlds selection camp that was held this past Monday & Tuesday in Norwood, MA: https://www.instagram.com/p/CZezk-mpUOn/

She tagged Isabeau Levito, Clare Seo & Ava Ziegler; Kanon Smith, fresh off from Bavarian Open, was also there (looks like only 5 attended, based on the alternates?).

Lindsay Thorngren did not attend the camp (assume she's been training at home since she's the first alternate to the Olympics).

It's a bit odd that neither Kate Wang nor Hanna Harrell got asked.

 

[RoseRed]

It's a bit odd that neither Kate Wang nor Hanna Harrell got asked.

Clare in junior outscored what both Kate and Hanna did at US Nationals, so her going over them is not surprising. But I am surprised that Kate at least wasn't at the selection camp.

 

[Sylvia]

It's a bit odd that neither Kate Wang nor Hanna Harrell got asked.

But I am surprised that Kate at least wasn't at the selection camp.

Kate Wang was invited and declined (my unofficial but reliable info).

ETA that I don't know about Hanna.

 

[wickedwitch]

Clare in junior outscored what both Kate and Hanna did at US Nationals, so her going over them is not surprising. But I am surprised that Kate at least wasn't at the selection camp.

I meant asked to the selection camp.

 

[jiejie]

Alysa Liu and Coach Viktor Pfeifer are on their way to Beijing! Photo looks like they are in front of an airport shuttle bus at LAX.

Viktor Pfeifer (@viktor_pfeifer) • Instagram photos and videos

1,521 Followers, 110 Following, 99 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Viktor Pfeifer (@viktor_pfeifer)

www.instagram.com

 

[Jammers]

Alysa Liu and Coach Viktor Pfeifer are on their way to Beijing! Photo looks like they are in front of an airport shuttle bus at LAX.

Viktor Pfeifer (@viktor_pfeifer) • Instagram photos and videos

1,521 Followers, 110 Following, 99 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Viktor Pfeifer (@viktor_pfeifer)

www.instagram.com

Why did she wait so long to go to Beijing? She missed out on walking in the opening ceremony with her USA teammates.

 

[jiejie]

Why did she wait so long to go to Beijing? She missed out on walking in the opening ceremony with her USA teammates.

We do not know. But the Feb 4 travel date was mentioned by Pfeifer over a week ago, so we can assume it was not because of waiting on negative crud testing. Alysa is still a minor, and it is probable that her father had the final say in her travel timing.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Alysa Liu and Coach Viktor Pfeifer are on their way to Beijing! Photo looks like they are in front of an airport shuttle bus at LAX.

Viktor Pfeifer (@viktor_pfeifer) • Instagram photos and videos

1,521 Followers, 110 Following, 99 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Viktor Pfeifer (@viktor_pfeifer)

www.instagram.com

Wow if you would’ve asked me a month ago I would’ve said to you I guarantee she’ll do both the short and long program.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Why did she wait so long to go to Beijing? She missed out on walking in the opening ceremony with her USA teammates.

Some athletes stay back as long as possible so they can train - more opportunities at home than at the venue.

 

[Vagabond]

Wow if you would’ve asked me a month ago I would’ve said to you I guarantee she’ll do both the short and long program.

Which would have been rash, given that she had just changed coaches.

 

[VGThuy]

A lot of athletes don’t march in the opening ceremonies for various reasons. Many have their own schedule they planned a while ago with their coaching. Of course, she hasn’t been with her coach for long but…So long as they’re not waiting till the last moment to leave for Beijing a la Tonya and Albertville, then they’re mostly fine.