U.S. Ladies [#24]: Starr-Ting Order/Detailed Classification

[aftershocks]

I just think Karen gets beaten up a lot for "taking Ashley's spot" and being perceived as being a favored skater by the USFS and used as a "tool" to punish Ashley who is often said around here to be the USFS's favorite victim.

Whoa, so exaggerated!

 

[VGThuy]

Whoa, so exaggerated!

Right back at ya!

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Just reacting to your oversensitive and very revealing over-exaggerated reaction.

Yeah, I'm over Wagner.

Good thing that. Wow, what a relief for you it must have been when she failed to make the Olympic team, again. That f'ing 'white girl' and her redundant red sweaters posted relentlessly on Instagram. Not to mention her sharing deets about how she overcame bouts of depression and feelings of rejection to turn the page and build a new and different life for herself in Boston! Who cares?! Yep, way over that has been!

 

[toddlj]

I don’t know if those will be the other five, but I agree there will be at least one new name and it may be higher than people think. US Nationals always has surprises.

I agree as well that someone will surprise... but there is a very limited list of contenders with the scoring potential to challenge at the top. I don't want to jinx anyone, so I won't mention the other names <cough cough Glenn cough cough Harrell cough.>

 

[VGThuy]

^^ Just reacting to your oversensitive and very revealing over-exaggerated reaction.

Everything I said in the sentence you quoted were impressions from what you said on this topic. Do you live in an irony-free zone or what?

 

[aftershocks]

Everything I said in the sentence you quoted were impressions from what you said on this topic. Do you live in an irony-free zone or what?

^^ Your over-exaggerated impressions that are nowhere close to my view of either Karen or Ashley. Huh, you were not being ironic, you were being oversensitive, but go ahead and rewrite the script/ revise your intentions.

I 100% agree, Viet. Karen's spins and speed are very strong, people overlook that and just say, Ashley was robbed but don't really have a technical way to back up that argument.

There is absolutely no question that Karen is way more talented than Ashley in spins, speed, creative potential and technical ability. Too bad it's impossible to meld those superb Karen qualities with Ashley's chutzpah, self-determination, self-belief, and enviable comeback reinvention moxie post-2010 when Ash could simply have accepted U.S. fed's vote of no confidence and given up on figure skating. Had Ashley bailed, what would have been U.S. ladies landscape over the past 9 years?

Now that's a more interesting and substantive question to juxtapose with the overly fraught suggestion that the U.S. most def would have lost a third spot in 2017 if not for Karen. Possibly so, but a third ladies spot was lost in 2018 and U.S. ladies will still survive. Had a third spot been lost in 2017, nothing would have changed really, eh. Because under a scenario in which Karen was not the 2017 Worlds savior, she would simply not have made the Olympic team in 2018, even coming in third at U.S. nationals. Therefore, a moot point.

I'm actually an objective observer with a deep admiration for Ashley Wagner's forthright 'bootstrap' mentality, which doesn't prevent me from seeing her flaws as well as her positive qualities. Karen Chen has less of a career track record, but her talent is so breathtaking that I'm actually exceedingly disappointed in her and for her that things haven't worked out so far in the ways her brilliance portends. Despite feeling a modicum of sadness for Ashley re not making the team (and a measure of disgust at the judging), I had hopes for Karen doing well at the Olympics, until I didn't because she didn't.

 

[demetriosj]

[


.....That f'ing 'white girl' and her redundant red sweaters posted relentlessly on Instagram[/QUOTE]

I'm offended. That's racist....

 

[Vagabond]

I currently have thread tags for Alysa Liu, Bradie Tennell, Courtney Hicks, Mariah Bell, Starr Andrews, and Ting Cui. Would it be more helpful to people if I replaced these with ones for Ashley Wagner, Gracie Gold, Karen Chen, and Mirai Nagasu?

 

[toddlj]

Please let the past be passed and MOVE ON.
2019 is definitely a "turn the page" year. I'm excited for a new batch of talented kids to argue about.
It's a new dawn
It's a new day
It's a new life
For me
And I'm feeling good

 

[Japanfan]

I agree, but can we please stop denying that these skaters have any agency whatsoever and imposing all the blame for 'pretty princess' programs on their handlers and federations. I suspect in many cases that the skaters (Hicks in particular) see themselves or desire to see themselves in that vein and either initiate or agree to that particular aesthetic. Whether or not the image or desire to be a 'princess' is healthy, honest, realistic or culturally conditioned is irrelevant to the fact that many of these 'athletic' skaters choose this particular aesthetic and are not being 'shackled' by twirling moustachioed coaches, etal.

Which would make it all the more difficult for the few who don't fit the mold and want to try something different.

Mae Bernice Mette (sp?) is an athletic skater who has created her own unique style and never tried to be a pretty ice princess. But France supports/encourages athlete to be innovative and creative - at least more than Canada and the US do. IMO.

 

[Bonjour Sherry]

I couldn't find her NHK performance online, but I looked at the protocol and she had most +GOEs on most of her elements. And she got level 4 on all her spins and step sequences.

Watching her FS from the Classic, it's actually not bad. You can see a real effort at improving carriage and line. Smart using an ina bauer instead of spiral. If she can skate clean she's definitely a medal threat. I think the key is nailing that short program combo. It's been her nemesis for years.

I think if Courtney wants to get a spot to Worlds, this year is it. And she's going to have to nail both programs. Back in 2016, the judges were clearly on her side and she may have even bumped Wagner off the Worlds team with two decent skates at Nationals. (Then Edmunds withdrew.) But nerves got the best of her so many times after that, that it was evident in international scoring that she was no longer getting the nod.

If Courtney skates two strong programs, while two of Bradie, Mariah, and Ting falter, then I think Courtney will go to Worlds. But the chance of this happening is pretty low. Either way, I'm sure Courtney will place top 5 with two good programs, which would keep her in the USFSA's radar in the coming year.

 

[Bonjour Sherry]

Mae Bernice Mette (sp?) is an athletic skater who has created her own unique style and never tried to be a pretty ice princess. But France supports/encourages athlete to be innovative and creative - at least more than Canada and the US do. IMO.

I believe female skaters who don't fit 'pretty princess' mode should be encouraged to stick to what's natural for them. It helps their confidence and allows them to focus on the technical part of skating, which is way more important. Since people were talking about Yoshie Onda, it's worth noting her jumps started to suffer as soon as she started getting more 'feminine' programs, starting with "Love in Slow Motion" in 2003. Did she have any injuries during these years?

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I agree, but can we please stop denying that these skaters have any agency whatsoever and imposing all the blame for 'pretty princess' programs on their handlers and federations. I suspect in many cases that the skaters (Hicks in particular) see themselves or desire to see themselves in that vein and either initiate or agree to that particular aesthetic. Whether or not the image or desire to be a 'princess' is healthy, honest, realistic or culturally conditioned is irrelevant to the fact that many of these 'athletic' skaters choose this particular aesthetic and are not being 'shackled' by twirling moustachioed coaches, etal.

OMG. I'm suddenly getting this mental image of Hicks' team tying her to a set of railway tracks.

 

[VGThuy]

OMG. I'm suddenly getting this mental image of Hicks' team tying her to a set of railway tracks.

Speaking of that...did that actually happen in real life or was that just something promoted in movies?

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Speaking of that...did that actually happen in real life or was that just something promoted in movies?

Who knows?

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Please let the past be passed and MOVE ON.
2019 is definitely a "turn the page" year. I'm excited for a new batch of talented kids to argue about.
It's a new dawn
It's a new day
It's a new life
For me
And I'm feeling good

The rinks are alive...with the sound of Buble!
His songs they have done...for a thousand years.
The rinks fill my head...with the sound of Buble.
I'm driving to therapy...to assuage my fears.

 

[Dobre]

Speaking of that...did that actually happen in real life or was that just something promoted in movies?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistori...we_know_of_anyone_actually_being_tied_up_and/

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/rethinking-the-origins-of-the-damsel-on-the-railroad-tracks

I'm not seeing any examples involving women. Men & boys, yes. And it appears only after it was promoted in movies. But apparently not silent film dramas. Only spoofs.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Uggg I wish ladies SP was starting tonight!!!!!



BTW I just turned the channel.. when the HECK did Project Runway, All Starts start???? HOW MUCH have I missed???????



Added later: This is all the winners of the past? Where is Christian Siriano, and sorry for a brief topic drift. ANL p*ssed!!!!!! PM me.

 

[Japanfan]

Since people were talking about Yoshie Onda, it's worth noting her jumps started to suffer as soon as she started getting more 'feminine' programs, starting with "Love in Slow Motion" in 2003. Did she have any injuries during these years?

I don't know about injuries. I do recall the one program that Josee costumed her in pink for, with pink ribbons in her pigtails.

It just seemed that her heart wasn't into it - part of that might have been injuries I suppose.

 

[RoseRed]

Uggg I wish ladies SP was starting tonight!!!!!



BTW I just turned the channel.. when the HECK did Project Runway, All Starts start???? HOW MUCH have I missed???????



Added later: This is all the winners of the past? Where is Christian Siriano, and sorry for a brief topic drift. ANL p*ssed!!!!!! PM me.

He's the mentor for Project Runway Season 17, now that Tim Gunn has moved on to new projects. He's also judged for Project Runway Juniors. I kind of doubt he'd want to compete again.

 

[Marco]

I have somewhat forgotten that there are only two ladies spots for Worlds. I expect them to go to Bradie and Mariah, and Cui will get to go to 4CCs ad Jr Worlds.

Apologies for starting the controversial discussion, I was just trying to state my point that it can be a mistake to only rely on Nationals results. If Courtney does somehow displace either Bradie or Mariah on the top 2 steps of the podium, I don't know how confident I am that a team not consisting of both Bradie and Mariah is the best team both in terms of individual results and in terms of likelihood of regaining the third spot.

 

[aftershocks]

[


.....That f'ing 'white girl' and her redundant red sweaters posted relentlessly on Instagram

I'm offended. That's racist....[/QUOTE]

Unsurprisingly, since I stole it from Dave Lease's infamous recent Instagram cracking on Ash Wagner. Sometimes it helps to know the context. But then if you don't get the context/ parodic reference, what the f, there's no point in trying to fill you in!

Pssst, your close quotes are confusingly gone AWOL too!

Mae Bernice Mette (sp?) is an athletic skater who has created her own unique style

Ah, Mae Berenice Meite is like a proud Amazonian Queen! As comedian Leslie Jones admiringly exclaimed during Meite's 2018 Olympics performance: "Who run da world?! Who run da world?!" In equal parts homage and reference to the Beyonce song Meite was skating to.

Who knows?

I repeat, "One never knows, do one?" -- Fats Waller #Ain'tMisbehavin'

 

[SmallFairy]

Well, very often, context is key. And we're plenty of people here who doesnt have English as our first language.Irony and it's like is what often gets lost in translation first. We're also plenty of people here who, as non-Americans, don't get all those references, be it cultural or skating related, or whatever. But of course, we're too stupid to be filled in.

 

[aftershocks]

But of course, we're too stupid to be filled in.

Hey, don't be so hard on yourself now, tsk tsk. (Psst, you can easily Google 'tsk tsk', if necessary)

Someone not getting a TSL/ DL reference because they didn't happen to come across it recently on FSU, is very different from not understanding English idioms and American cultural contexts.

He's the mentor for Project Runway Season 17, now that Tim Gunn has moved on ... I kind of doubt he'd want to compete again.

Exactly. Siriano has no need to compete on PR again. He is probably the most successful and well known in his own right of all former PR winners/contestants. He's scrapped and scrambled and taken advantage and then some of every opportunity via creative brilliance and hard work. Siriano has created custom designs for some big names, including Leslie Jones and Michelle Obama.

 

[SmallFairy]

Hey, don't be so hard on yourself now, tsk tsk. (Psst, you can easily Google 'tsk tsk', if necessary)

I suppose you're trying to be funny, but that is just condescending. I foresee you will now call me overly sensitive. Watch if I care.

Someone not getting a TSL/ DL reference because they didn't happen to come across it recently on FSU, is very different from not understanding English idioms and American cultural contexts.

It is. That's where the part of my post who says "context is key" and "references, cultural (white girl???) or skating related (TSL)" comes into play.

But if the sentence in question has a double meaning, the knowledge of the English language is relevant. I have no idea if there was a double bottom to this. What's with the sweaters? Is there something here I don't get? Should I laugh? I'm not ashamed to say I'm not sure I get it.

When using phrases and language that could easily sound offensive, one should be careful, explain it, put it into context. Unless of course, your goal is to get the reactions. That's the tabloid way. And you're free to do so. I wanted to draw attention to the fact that when you indeed got the reaction, you choose to make fun of that person's reaction, though it was totally legit. Let's just say we have different ways.

 

[aftershocks]

I suppose you're trying to be funny, but that is just condescending. I foresee you will now call me overly sensitive. Watch if I care.

No, I wasn't trying to be funny. I was just responding to your own words in your previous post. Were you trying to be sarcastic or self-deprecatory with your original comment?

In the age of the Internet, it's easy to take offense where none is intended. That's why I take things with a large grain of salt, and Google is a good friend. Or, simply asking questions sometimes helps, rather than jumping to conclusions. Misunderstanding is generally rampant on Internet forums. One of the hazards, apparently. Getting bent out of shape online is so outre, affected, and self-indulgent, but that's just IMHO mind you. Time to chill, it's 2019 and U.S. Nationals can't get here fast enough...

Psst, perhaps check out TSL thread in Trash Can and the sweater/'white girl' references will become clearer, or possibly cast you into further confusion. Either way, continuing to indulge in a fit of pique in this thread is like a child carrying on a temper tantrum in public. Not to mention the verboten and unappreciated by many OT drift.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I have somewhat forgotten that there are only two ladies spots for Worlds. I expect them to go to Bradie and Mariah, and Cui will get to go to 4CCs ad Jr Worlds.

Maybe Courtney or Amber could sneak across the border to Canada and get themselves citizenship before the ladies' short program starts later this week in Saint John.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Nah, they both be better off getting down to bizness in the good 'ol, bad 'ol US of A. Changing venues won't change results until and unless they've changed their focused intentions and inner thought processes, no?

I believe female skaters who don't fit 'pretty princess' mode...

Pwetty princess-mode in general in figure skating is very outdated, and also something of a myth or a trope or an illusion, IMO. In other words, PP-M is so Mad Men 1950s, early 1960s. Just ask Carol Heiss and Tenley Albright. They were both as different as night and day. They were very cool athletic divas of their day who played their roles very well in ways that the culture allowed. And they soared within those confining limitations. And then they exceeded the culturally imposed limitations, at least to a degree, in their off-ice lives and careers.

For the cultural reference challenged:
Mad Men = an American television series (2007-2015) that portrayed the patriarchal culture of the 1950s and 1960s in the guise of a Madison Avenue advertising agency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Heiss
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenley_Albright

 

[Marco]

Maybe Courtney or Amber could sneak across the border to Canada and get themselves citizenship before the ladies' short program starts later this week in Saint John.

Plus they never seem to do well at Nationals

 

[aftershocks]

TSL Tonya & Nancy gems, plus Elaine Zayak's thoughts on the Zayak rule, which DL and Doug Haw pooh-pooh out of hand. DL's disdain for Zayak's on-ice look is a bit of pwetty princess-mode snobbery. Doug Haw points out how Zayak improved aesthetically. Plus, more on topic, there are U.S. Nationals ladies predictions. DL & Haw have already anointed Alyssa Liu:
https://youtu.be/OkhmL2t0AXM?t=3778 scroll to 1:06:24 for U.S. ladies predictions