U.S. Ladies [#27]: A Time to Reboot

[vesperholly]

Ugh, who named these.

"South Atlantic singles challenge" = Regionals for ladies/men
"Eastern pairs/dance challenge" = Regionals for pairs/dance
"Eastern singles final" = Sectionals for ladies/men

Not quite sure what "US Ice Dance Final" in Hyannis Ma is - Sectionals for dance, but like the whole country??

 

[Sylvia]

I've started a thread in the Kiss & Cry section for the 9 Regional singles and the 3 new Sectional pairs/dance challenges: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...gles-sectional-pairs-dance-challenges.106103/

Not quite sure what "US Ice Dance Final" in Hyannis Ma is - Sectionals for dance, but like the whole country??

Yes. Refer to this page for info about the new Nationals (Senior/Junior) qualifying structure this season: https://www.usfigureskating.org/story.aspx?id=91598

 

[haribobo]

In a nutshell, Pairs Sectionals happens during singles Regionals. Pairs mini-Nationals for skaters without byes happens during singles Sectionals. Presumably this mini-Nationals called the Pairs and Dance Finals is happening to ensure that everyone has to actually qualify for Nationals and don't just get byed all the way through, which happened for the past trillion years I think. I think the idea also was to have a minimum score to qualify for Nationals but I forget if that passed and if so don't know what that score is. And then of course there's real Nationals. And dance follows the same format as pairs. Kind of funny that the only team competing at "Eastern Sectionals" for Senior Pairs is Timlen/Highgate-Brutman, and that there isn't even a Senior Dance competition because I guess everyone who would be considered Eastern must have a bye. I am curious to see who ends up showing up in the other sections- I think Mids start orders get posted tomorrow or around then.

ETA- I know this whole thing is off topic but because its new and confusing I don't mind discussing it wherever it pops up...

 

[hoptoad]

Yup, confusing. But if this arrangement lasts, we'll get used to it.

Is it possible in this new system for a skater to compete in both pairs and singles? Or does the way the qualifying competitions are scheduled make it impossible? Thanks!

 

[kwanatic]

I don’t known. Now that the 3A have gone senior, plus Evgenia, Rika, Alina, and Elizaveta the field is really deep. She’s at TDF with Kaori who tends to improve quickly as the season moves on. Satako’s also improves a lot as the season goes on. It may take some luck to get on a podium this year. However, I do think she has a really good shot a bronze.

Agreed. I hope Mariah skates well as it will help to improve her scores internationally which should help when nationals rolls around. In terms of landing on a podium...I don't know about that. The field is probably the deepest it's ever been and unless Mariah can nail everything perfectly, she's in an uphill battle to get past this swarm of Russian newbies as well as the top Russians and Japanese from last year.

A feel like a medal may be out of reach for Mariah but strong skating will put her in a good position to battle at nationals for a shot at the title. She was only a jump away from winning last year...

 

[gkelly]

Is it possible in this new system for a skater to compete in both pairs and singles? Or does the way the qualifying competitions are scheduled make it impossible? Thanks!

Yes, it is possible.

For example, of the three juvenile pair teams that competed this morning, all three of the boys are also scheduled for either the juvenile boys or intermediate men's competition. Two of them represent North Atlantic clubs, but since they are in Aston for the pairs competition, they are entered in the South Atlantic singles events instead.

The referee would need to take multiple entries by the same skater into account when constructing the schedule. That's nothing new -- they needed to do that in the old days when pairs and dance events did happen at regionals, and also if a pair skater or dancer who will be competing at sectionals also qualifies for sectionals in singles. (Or skaters who qualify for both singles and pairs/dance at Nationals.)

 

[concorde]

Yes, it is possible.

For example, of the three juvenile pair teams that competed this morning, all three of the boys are also scheduled for either the juvenile boys or intermediate men's competition. Two of them represent North Atlantic clubs, but since they are in Aston for the pairs competition, they are entered in the South Atlantic singles events instead.

The referee would need to take multiple entries by the same skater into account when constructing the schedule. That's nothing new -- they needed to do that in the old days when pairs and dance events did happen at regionals, and also if a pair skater or dancer who will be competing at sectionals also qualifies for sectionals in singles. (Or skaters who qualify for both singles and pairs/dance at Nationals.)

I don't think a single skater can represent a North Atlantic club but still skate at South Atlantics and earn a spot to Sectionals. I assume that is one of the reasons why the Regionals events are staggered across a Section to avoid conflicts.

Maybe they are skating at the incorrect Regionals is if they already have a bye to Sectionals using NQS. In that case, their placement would not affect the top 4 s Atlantic skaters advancing to Sectionals.

 

[wickedwitch]

I don't think a single skater can represent a North Atlantic club but still skate at South Atlantics and earn a spot to Sectionals. I assume that is one of the reasons why the Regionals events are staggered across a Section to avoid conflicts.

Maybe they are skating at the incorrect Regionals is if they already have a bye to Sectionals using NQS. In that case, their placement would not affect the top 4 s Atlantic skaters advancing to Sectionals.

IIRC, they make an exception for skaters in pairs/dance.

 

[concorde]

IIRC, they make an exception for skaters in pairs/dance.

For Teams yes but are you sure about those same skaters as singles?
It does not make sense that 5 N Atlantic skaters could advance to Sectionals but only 3 S Atlantic would.

 

[gkelly]

From the current rulebook:

2410 Determining a Skater’s/Team’s Competitive Region

2411 For the purpose of competing in qualifying competitions as defined in rule 1022, a skater’s/team’s competitive region and section are determined as follows:

A. For singles events, the region and section are determined by:

1. The location of the skater’s home club; or

2. If an individual member residing in the United States, the location of the skater’s legal residence; or

3. If an individual member residing outside the United States, the location of the region whose boundary is nearest to the city of the skater’s legal residence

B. For pairs and ice dance, either team member’s competitive region and section, as defined in paragraph (A) of this rule 2411, may be chosen.

2412 Skaters Competing in Multiple Events in Challenges and Finals

A. If a skater is entering a regional singles challenge in addition to a sectional pairs challenge or sectional ice dance challenge, said skater will enter a regional challenge according to rule 2411 but may compete in the regional challenge where the concurrent partnered event is being held if it is in a different location.

B. If a skater qualifies to compete in a sectional singles final and the U.S. Pairs Final or U.S. Ice Dance Final, said skater may compete in the sectional singles final where the concurrent partnered event is being held.

Back when pairs and dance events were held at regionals, if partners represented clubs from different regions it was possible for a skater competing in the partnered event at the partner's home regionals to compete in singles at that same regionals and not have to also compete singles in their own home club region. (Since they might be representing clubs from different sections, it was entirely possible that the two regionals would be taking place simultaneously.)

This still seems to be the case.

Since the rule does say "concurrent" I'm not sure what that means if a partner's home regionals takes place a different week than the partnered event.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Laura skates with a lot more speed than her pupil (Liu) does. I wonder if it's simply hard to teach.

My first thought, is that technical content today is more complex and harder than back in 1995. The footwork and skating elements must be more intricate and detailed...

I don't think Liu is that slow, but she sure performs much harder programme than Laura's back in 1995....

This girl, Alysa Liu, is a Star! performs the hardest elements of any US Ladies (and many international ladies). She won 2 GP events with flying colors, with 2nd best total score made it to GPF, she brought back the "wow factor" to US Ladies' skating...... but that's not good enough........ let's find something "wrong" with her, because "if someone is rising... there is always someone to pull that person down"...

 

[AxelAnnie]

My first thought, is that technical content today is more complex and harder than back in 1995. The footwork and skating elements must be more intricate and detailed...

I don't think Liu is that slow, but she sure performs much harder programme than Laura's back in 1995....

This girl, Alysa Liu, is a Star! performs the hardest elements of any US Ladies (and many international ladies). She won 2 GP events with flying colors, with 2nd best total score made it to GPF, she brought back the "wow factor" to US Ladies' skating...... but that's not good enough........ let's find something "wrong" with her, because "if someone is rising... there is always someone to pull that person down"...

All you say is accurate! I watched Laura's video. I know it is very hard to judge speed on a video. i agree that Laura's speed could be the result, in part, of skating a less technical program. Also, Laura had two years and several pounds on Alysa...either of which could affect speed.

 

[RoyThree]

This girl, Alysa Liu, is a Star! performs the hardest elements of any US Ladies (and many international ladies). She won 2 GP events with flying colors, with 2nd best total score made it to GPF, she brought back the "wow factor" to US Ladies' skating...... but that's not good enough........ let's find something "wrong" with her, because "if someone is rising... there is always someone to pull that person down"...

Amen!

 

[natsulian]

In addition to participating in her very first competition this year, Gracie will also be looking to earn the minimum TES required to go to Nationals. Best of luck to her and all participants.

 

[Sylvia]

Re: Qualifying for the [2020] U.S. Figure Skating Championships – Minimum Total Element Score (TES)

The minimum score is comprised of the TES from the short program/rhythm dance plus the TES from the free skate/free dance in the same competition.
For the 2019-20 season, the minimum TES are:
...
• Ladies: 75.0
...

https://www.usfigureskating.org/content/TN 229 Minimum TES for Championships.pdf

 

[sk8nlizard]

Re: Qualifying for the [2020] U.S. Figure Skating Championships – Minimum Total Element Score (TES)

https://www.usfigureskating.org/content/TN 229 Minimum TES for Championships.pdf

Thanks for the info...that’s a pretty high TES qualifying score...

 

[natsulian]

Thanks for the info...that’s a pretty high TES qualifying score...

A 3-2, 2A, 3 layout in the short with level 3s and level 4s alongside a 3 to 5 triple program in the long would be necessary to hit the mark. The cumulative TES for 2019 Worlds was 78 (29 in the SP and 49 in the FS) so it’s a good system to develop depth and harness self motivation to get those harder elements. At the same time, I can’t imagine what someone must feel if they medaled at Sectionals, but failed to meet the TES minimum.

 

[Willin]

I think it will also help to make sure that literally any lady at Nationals will be able to make it to worlds if need be. Typically it's not a huge deal for the ladies discipline as there is such a high competition level to get there that many ladies who could reach that 75 mark that do not make nationals at all. I think this rule will make a bigger impact for competition in men's, pair's, and dance where the competition level is low enough that this minimum will legitimately cut out competitors that previously made it.

 

[haribobo]

From last season, at Sectionals all the senior ladies skaters hit the 75 TES mark but at Nationals, Miller (68), Hicks (72), and Biechler (62) didn't make it.

For pairs, all teams at Nationals made the 68 points (Serafini and Tran barely though)

For dance, the lowest 4 placed teams didn't hit the minimum of 65.

For men, the lowest 5 placing men didn't hit the min of 92, and those same 5 guys didn't achieve that min score at Sectionals either, along with Kulenkamp and Savary (who did get the 92 at Nationals). So yea, we could end up with a 13 person men's field...

 

[hoptoad]

Are there min qualifying scores for the levels below senior?

I think it's not a bad idea for seniors, though I don't know what the "right" scores would be. I do like that there are multiple opportunities to achieve the scores.

 

[haribobo]

Nope, just for senior they have the min scores.

 

[sk8nlizard]

Are there min qualifying scores for the levels below senior?

I think it's not a bad idea for seniors, though I don't know what the "right" scores would be. I do like that there are multiple opportunities to achieve the scores.

I agree, I think a minimum score is not a bad idea at all...I’m not sure that a minimum score that is so close to the world’s qualifying score is the correct number. For a sport that is already struggling, making it even harder to make Nationals seems not the brightest idea. I am sure they will see how it goes this year and adjust accordingly.

 

[Coco]

At the risk of being offensive, let me just say I'm totally down with the Nationals minimum being so close to the world's minimum.

My last two trips to Nationals left me dreaming of a FS only qualifying round to pare down the field. I guess I'm just mean. But it is good that USFSA is forcing everyone to aim high.

 

[natsulian]

Gracie Gold’s practice video at Regionals: https://youtu.be/nJAKcb9wSwQ

 

[all_empty]

Gracie Gold’s practice video at Regionals: https://youtu.be/nJAKcb9wSwQ

A solid 3+2 and some decent 3+3 attempts at the end. Nice power and speed. Good luck, Gracie!

 

[Teamgracie]

I hope Gracie can ignore all the pressure and just skate for the joy. Wishing the best for her! No matter what she is an inspiration and I’d watch her skating just to see her grace and power! ❤

 

[all_empty]

From last season, at Sectionals all the senior ladies skaters hit the 75 TES mark but at Nationals, Miller (68), Hicks (72), and Biechler (62) didn't make it.

I don't mind a minimum score but it means we won't likely see skaters like Stephanie Rosenthal or Lucinda Ruh -- who only have 3T and 3S and maybe a 3Lo but with great spins and presentation -- at that level any more.

 

[natsulian]

Now that we know Gracie can physically do these jumps, it's a matter of confidence and mentality. I just want her to go out there and skate for herself and no one else. Her, the ice, and the music.

 

[BittyBug]

I don't mind a minimum score but it means we won't likely see skaters like Stephanie Rosenthal or Lucinda Ruh -- who only have 3T and 3S and maybe a 3Lo but with great spins and presentation -- at that level any more.

Considering that Lucinda Ruh skated for Switzerland, we never saw the likes of her at Nationals to begin with , but I was also thinking of Stephanie Rosenthal as an example of a highlight skater who probably wouldn't make the grade in today's system. It's a shame, but the sport has changed and I'm not sure a skater like Rosenthal would make it to Nationals today even without the minimum tech score requirement. It seems like even the lower ranked skaters in recent years have up to a 3Lz, even if they aren't able to consistently execute their jumps.

 

[Hedwig]

Is Gracie's Regionals happening right now or did I remember wrong?