U.S. Ladies [#24]: Starr-Ting Order/Detailed Classification

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Not getting the Ting Cui hype at all. Harrell I like. Ting Cui is quite forgettable and not any more consistent than Bell. Mariah is not the most physically talented, much like Wagner. All she needs is to find Wagner level confidence.
 
Vagabond said:
The score for a program with a landed quadruple jump or triple axel is also going to be far more inflated than one with nothing beyond a triple lutz. ;)
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I am agreeing with the gist of this sentiment. We are now in a new era with regard to women's technical achievements in Figure Skating. Nationals judges can't possibly overlook what has been happening internationally. I hope Starr comes to Nationals with her 3 axel perfected (she has been close in earlier competitions), so that she can add her name to the conversation.
 
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analia said:
Not getting the Ting Cui hype at all.
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https://youtu.be/t2V4R6Vyma4
She's incredibly balletic...I have not seen this kind of stretch, turn out and line since Sasha Cohen. Moreover, I love the way Ting listens to and interprets music. She uses every note of her music to express the nuances of her choreography (something we saw from Michelle Kwan and Angela Nikodinov after each lady underwent an artistic "transformation"). Her skating skills are reminiscent of Janet Lynn and Patrick Chan. She has really great ice coverage. It's big skating that can be seen, felt and appreciated from the cheap seats. She has spectacular spring in her jumps. All the jumps are text book...taking off the correct edge, lifting high, with great positions in the air, fully rotated in the air and then landed with security and flow. Her spins are fast and centered with beautiful positions. Plus, she is skating with more security and confidence than she ever has before. I would say that the hype is justified.
 
Ting is not wildly inconsistent. She misses jumps with regularity; but she has made the podium at Novice Nationals, Junior Nationals, the Bavarian Open (in novices), and Tallinn Trophy (in seniors). All her Regionals/Sectionals/Nationals results over the past couple years were on the podium. Her SB this summer was third-highest among the senior age-eligible ladies. Her JGP results in regular JGP events and at Junior Worlds have all been 5th-7th. Essentially, her results are pretty steady. She rarely brings in all the points she is capable of, but her placements are pretty similar relative to specific fields. We don't know where that will place her at Senior Nationals, and that is fine. This is a perfectly good year for her to gain experience.
 
layman said:
https://youtu.be/t2V4R6Vyma4
She's incredibly balletic...I have not seen this kind of stretch, turn out and line since Sasha Cohen. Moreover, I love the way Ting listens to and interprets music. She uses every note of her music to express the nuances of her choreography (something we saw from Michelle Kwan and Angela Nikodinov after each lady underwent an artistic "transformation"). Her skating skills are reminiscent of Janet Lynn and Patrick Chan. She has really great ice coverage. It's big skating that can be seen, felt and appreciated from the cheap seats. She has spectacular spring in her jumps. All the jumps are text book...taking off the correct edge, lifting high, with great positions in the air, fully rotated in the air and then landed with security and flow. Her spins are fast and centered with beautiful positions. Plus, she is skating with more security and confidence than she ever has before. I would say that the hype is justified.
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:rofl: Cui is excellent and has tons of potential but ... no dude. You're a fantastic hype artist, though.
 
I have to admit I’m not quite getting all the posts calling Cui balletic. I think she’s long limbed, but that’s not the same thing as being balletic. I find her coltish rather than elegant, which is fine at this point of her development. Her skating skills and jumps are really good and that’s more important. Her presentation can develop more with time.

But then again what do I know about ballet.
 
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oleada said:
. I think she’s long limbed, but that’s not the same thing as being balletic. I find her coltish rather than elegant, which is fine at this point of her development.
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The queen of coltish was Polina Edmund's at the Olympics. Polina then vs. Ting now is no comparison. Ting is light years ahead.
 
oleada said:
I have to admit I’m not quite getting all the posts calling Cui balletic. I think she’s long limbed, but that’s not the same thing as being balletic. I find her coltish rather than elegant, which is fine at this point of her development. Her skating skills and jumps are really good and that’s more important. Her presentation can develop more with time.

But then again what do I know about ballet.
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Watch her arms and her back - they're unusually expressive.
 
 
layman said:
https://youtu.be/t2V4R6Vyma4
She uses every note of her music to express the nuances of her choreography .
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There was a lot I disagreed with in your post, but this was probably the biggest one. I thought she skated through the music a lot and felt like the music was totally wasted during many parts of the program. I wouldn't say that's her fault, though - it's really the fault of the choreographer, who did things like put spins during parts of the music where there could have been interesting choreography.

Dobre said:
Ting is not wildly inconsistent. She misses jumps with regularity;
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That seems like the definition of inconsistency. The JGP where she was 2nd in the SP and 7th in the free and overall is probably a good example of her inconsistency.

Anyway, in spite of these comments, I do like Ting's skating. I would like to see more results like the one at Tallinn before I totally jump on the bandwagon though.
 
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I didn't see the great connection with her music in the Tallinn Trophy video. The music seems bigger than what she's capable of delivering right now.

I'd categorize her skating as very nice, but nothing of the wow factor that Cohen or Kwan had at that age.

OTOH, looking at the changes Kwan made between '94 and '95, I guess we'll see. (Yes, I know she won worlds in '96, but for me the big change was the year before.)
 
layman said:
I think Ting Cui represents a long tradition of ballet in figure skating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xc_mHrwC-4
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I think Cui is a very promising skater with a lot of potential. She chose her style to be "balletic", but at this point at least, she is not the "ultimate" ballerina, or even close to Cohen for example. Cui looks like a girl who obviously took ballet lessons, and is good at it, especially with her arms, but the rest of her body movements (which must coordinate with balletic arms) are not quite there yet.

(So sue me, but).. I find Alysa to be more "balletic" or maybe "dance-able", and her body parts and forms are much better coordinated and smooth in non-athletic elements.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkTcyBAntfU

To me this is "balletic".... https://i.ytimg.com/vi/e1JPwYERPJM/maxresdefault.jpg
... and this is simply "a young girl who took ballet classes and knows the moves".
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...r-ladies-short-picture-id1025522340?s=612x612

... if i did not see Alysa Liu's face and see that she is Asian, could easily mistake her for a russian girl who studied ballet seriously and is a "natural"...
https://i0.wp.com/thefinersports.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Alysa-Liu-2018-Sectionals-FS.png?resize=558,730
 
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Message to Alysa STAT! Get the tights inside your boots. It is making your feet look clunky.

And she is quite lovely
 
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layman said:
It's not just her posture but rather her movement through the back, arms and free-leg that are expressive.
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It's hit and miss, imo. Some times she strikes marvelous poses and forms.... when she concentrates on it..
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...-prix-of-figure-picture-id839445424?s=612x612
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...-prix-of-figure-picture-id839445354?s=612x612

... but it is not a continuous flow and balletic tension of all parts at the same time, not "natural all the time", and then it looks somewhat unfinished... like someone who is taking "ballet classes" and has to think about it..
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...-the-junior-ladies-short-picture-id1041849866
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...n-the-junior-ladies-free-picture-id1042889146
 
There seems to be a lot of polarizing posts about Cui, and IMO, they're all right. It shouldn't make sense, but it does. I do think when it comes to the basic fundamentals in terms of bladework and flow, Cui is more promising than some other junior names being tossed around. To me, if a skater has that, then they can truly build to become a great skater. Conversely, I think Liu has a lot of work to do, IMO, and I fear they won't do it and instead will just concentrate on the triple axel and getting all the triples consistent.
 
Maybe it's that Ting Cui has really long legs that her knees look very stiff. Her jumps are not that secure or powerful and I'm not seeing any expressiveness beyond the generic jgp affair. Anastasia Gubanova is balletic even if she doesn't have the body type. Ting Cui has the body type but as of now she is executing elements, not much more than that. Reminds me of early day Christina Gao but Gao had better jumps and skating skills. Tom Z's two Korean ladies do the same thing, do it better than her and rightfully got better placements.

Tallinn judging was a joke. Sima and Ting Cui both got lucky and I get that people are happy about it, but let's be honest, they didn't deserve the marks.
 
Tinami Amori said:
To me this is "balletic".... https://i.ytimg.com/vi/e1JPwYERPJM/maxresdefault.jpg
... and this is simply "a young girl who took ballet classes and knows the moves".
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...r-ladies-short-picture-id1025522340?s=612x612
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Oh eh, these young ladies have different body structures and different styles. Indeed, Alysa in her recent sectionals performance seems to finish off her moves a bit more with a bit more sharpness and precision (at least in that particular performance with that music selection). To be honest, Ting and Alysa are both young and both still have a lot more to learn, a lot to work on, and a lot of maturing to do.

As far as fan preferences, if both young ladies continue in the sport with some success, I can imagine fans will be debating till the cows come home. There is such a thing as being drawn to different skaters for different reasons. One faction or the other trying to dictate who is better or more 'balletic' is useless. And in the long run, these debates don't amount to a hill of beans, fun though they may be. I will simply try to enjoy watching and see what develops in the long run for each of them. There's a whole lot to skating aside from 'balletic' debates and 'technical' vs 'artistic' debates. On and on we go. :D
 
Tinami Amori said:
It's hit and miss, imo. Some times she strikes marvelous poses and forms.... when she concentrates on it..
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...-prix-of-figure-picture-id839445424?s=612x612
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...-prix-of-figure-picture-id839445354?s=612x612

... but it is not a continuous flow and balletic tension of all parts at the same time, not "natural all the time", and then it looks somewhat unfinished... like someone who is taking "ballet classes" and has to think about it..
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...-the-junior-ladies-short-picture-id1041849866
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...n-the-junior-ladies-free-picture-id1042889146
Click to expand...

:lol: What's your point though. Ting is a young skater who is still learning. At this stage we do not know how either Ting or Alysa are going to develop. And it really doesn't matter. Why can't both be appreciated for where they are at now? We are salivating at the potential of both young ladies, but there is no way to know what will transpire in their futures. So let's not rush it, and can we try to relax the over-arching definitive assessments at this stage of these young ladies' developments. :drama:

I enjoy each for where they are at now, and no amount of arguing and debating that goes on can dictate how each will or will not draw me in and capture my heart and imagination. Ting is far from perfect, and she's still very young and not fully projecting with emotion, but her skating stirs something in me, that I can acknowledge but will refrain from allowing to get out of control. I admire Alysa's talents and I'm eager to see more of her skating, but I'm not drawn in so much right now. I do think Alyssa looks a bit more polished in her recent performance than I've seen her in some of her earlier performances. Both Ting and Alysa still have to mature and grow as artists. And there's no telling what direction that will take for either young lady.
 
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