U.S. Ladies [#24]: Starr-Ting Order/Detailed Classification

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Sylvia said:
Bradie received full credit for her 3Lz+3Lo (10.80 BV, 12.22 pts) in her FS today but got under-rotation calls on her second half jumps: 3Lz<+3T (still worth 9.23 pts), 3F<+2T+2Lo & 3S< fall.

Mariah doubled her Lutz in the second half of her FS, then her flip was called 3F< ! with negative GOE before she landed her final 3Lz+2T well.

Both she and Bradie have scored consistently in their 4 internationals this season and have 8 of the top 9 total scores (Ting Cui has the other): https://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/scoretracker/current-senior-ladies-scores/
Bradie: 206, 193, 198, 202
Mariah: 189, 190, 199, 197
Ting: 199.79
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So is this our Nationals Podium?

What about Liu?

Im getting excited!!!!!
 
Bending over is proper form for speed skating, but not for figure skating. Zagitova is bent over much of the time, but she bends even lower in preparation for each jump, effectively 'mooning' the audience and judges.
 
Lizziebeth said:
I think some of her choreography is designed to 'cover' this. She needs to address the posture issue. It will eventually affect her scores IMHO.
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Tennell already gets lower PCS than just about any other top female Singles skater. It seems unlikely to me that the international judges don't know what they are seeing when they mark her.
 
olympic said:
I also wanted to add that the USFSA gambled and won by the success of Bradie and Mariah at Golden Spin

Their scores and medals solidify their positions at the top of the US ladies pyramid and set them up for good scoring at Nationals and Worlds, where they would need to hit to regain 3 spots for the US. I hope Bradie can clean up the UR situation in the 2d half of the LP because she probably could score north of 210, and Mariah court fall in the 200-210 range hitting her content: IMO, that might get 3 spots
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IMO that is out of the question given how this season is going so far. I hope the “We need 3 spots!” Talk doesn’t come up too much, it is very 2011. Honestly they are not needed at this point. Whatever combination of 3 Russian and 3 Japanese skaters plus Eun-soo Lim, Hendrickx (if she’s on) and other skaters, it will be a great result if whatever 2 women at worlds both place in the top 10.
 
The US is unlikely to regain 3 spots any time soon---we know that. However, last year there were 3 Russian, 2 Japanese and 2 Canadian ladies at the top. Still Bradie managed to place 6th at Worlds when she was a newbie. Remember---ice is slippery for Russian, Japanese and Korean skaters, too.
 
euterpe said:
Still Bradie managed to place 6th at Worlds when she was a newbie. Remember---ice is slippery for Russian, Japanese and Korean skaters, too.
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Surely Bradie does not need Russians/Japanese/Koreans to "slip" to skate well and to place well, because if she does (which i don't think she needs), then it is a poor tactic... :lol:
 
DimaToe said:
IMO that is out of the question given how this season is going so far. I hope the “We need 3 spots!” Talk doesn’t come up too much, it is very 2011. Honestly they are not needed at this point. Whatever combination of 3 Russian and 3 Japanese skaters plus Eun-soo Lim, Hendrickx (if she’s on) and other skaters, it will be a great result if whatever 2 women at worlds both place in the top 10.
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Thank you @euterpe - Ice is slippery and Bradie was further behind last year, yet managed a respectable 6th place at Worlds.

I talk about '3 spots' not because it should be the focus, but a focus.
 
DimaToe said:
@olympic I still disagree, 3 spots shouldn’t be a focus for the U.S. women at worlds. A placement that they’re proud of and getting themselves 2 GP spots should be the priority IMO.
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I think maximizing spots at worlds and Olympics is almost every skater's focus. 2 guaranteed gp spots means top 12 at worlds= you are more or less describing the same thing (just one more specific than the other). Even when US ladies didnt do well in the past, they often did well enough for the gp spots, so it is a focus but it's not like it is really really hard. 3 spots is a harder goal for sure but that's also a placement thing.

So ultimately all three things discussed are about worlds placements. US ladies should focus on the best placements, which is a no brainer, regardless of what and which spots that gets them.
 
DimaToe said:
@olympic I still disagree, 3 spots shouldn’t be a focus for the U.S. women at worlds. A placement that they’re proud of and getting themselves 2 GP spots should be the priority IMO.
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Actually, I think with some of the ladies we have coming up through the pipeline, getting 3 spots and getting those up-and-comers some major competitive experience as soon as possible should be a focus. As much as skating is an individual sport, there is a "team" element to it in the sense that the combined placements determine how many skaters we send to Worlds the following year. It isn't just about "being proud" of their own placement or ensuring 2 GP spots for themselves. These results have a butterfly effect on the entire US ladies program.
 
I don’t disagree with everything that has been said but the 3 spots argument has been such a bigger deal than it should have been in the past, it seems like a 3A or consistent difficult 3-3 combination are a must to be near the top this season. The only female skater we have with a 3A is not even age eligible, our top hopes haven’t proven to be consistent this season. IMO it just seems like maximizing spots should be something fans should not be worrying about right now.
 
Vagabond said:
Tennell already gets lower PCS than just about any other top female Singles skater. It seems unlikely to me that the international judges don't know what they are seeing when they mark her.
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I agree. The path to high PCS is 1)executing very high technical ccontent - Kihira 2)hanging around a while in the top 10. I think for Bradie it's the second. She was above 200 at Golden Skate - she's getting there.
 
I don’t see charisma in Tenelle when she skates. Like she going through the motions and has no emotion. Improving those might improve her PCS. Seems like robot skating to me. No personality on ice.
 
Bradie is definitely trying to improve her artistry. If the judges wanted to, they could reward the effort. PCS seems to be based on rep.

Kihira though actually earns her PCS scores with her superior skating skills, her musicality, her flow, the way she uses her knees and ankles to generate speed...the judges have just now decided to reward these qualities (in PCS marks) that were always there.

Conversely some skaters that were ridiculously over scored in PCS are seeing those scores drop closer to reality.

The look on Zagitova's face when she saw she was in 2nd said it all. She sees the writing on the wall.

Looking at the women's technical scores from the final...they are getting ever closer to the men's scores. No amount of PCS manipulation can overcome the technical deficit some of the women now find themselves in. Without a 3 axel or a quad there is no way to compete with the top women.
 
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Finsta said:
I don’t see charisma in Tenelle when she skates. Like she going through the motions and has no emotion. Improving those might improve her PCS. Seems like robot skating to me. No personality on ice.
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Didn't seem to hurt Gracie going through the motions and not showing much emotion when she skated yet her PCS rose even though she was never consistent.
 
layman said:
If the judges wanted to, they could reward the effort. PCS seems to be based on rep.
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Judges should not be rewarding effort; they should be rewarding execution. They should also not be rewarding improvement unless that improvement actually earns the reward. This is a competition. Skaters should be rewarded for what they actually do.
 
mag said:
Judges should not be rewarding effort; they should be rewarding execution. They should also not be rewarding improvement unless that improvement actually earns the reward. This is a competition. Skaters should be rewarded for what they actually do.
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I agree but that's not how the judges have been using PCS marks. They have been manipulating the marks in the same way they did with Figures to prop up some skaters and bury others.
 
layman said:
I agree but that's not how the judges have been using PCS marks. They have been manipulating the marks in the same way they did with Figures to prop up some skaters and bury others.
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True
 
Jammers said:
Didn't seem to hurt Gracie going through the motions and not showing much emotion when she skated yet her PCS rose even though she was never consistent.
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Gracie at her best and Tennell are not even on the sameness level. I might be new poster, but not a new skating fan. Gracie at her best could challenged Medvedeva at her best. Gracie had everything but mental tough.
 
I think Bradie would greatly benefit from holding some of her moves just a second or two longer. She hits a spiral in her LP that is quite pleasing but its gone quickly. Also, she has tendency to fling and thrust her limbs into position when it would look nicer if she were to just stretch into it. All that would really make her programs pop and might do wonders on her PCS score.
 
I see some fans still think that skating pretty automatically means should automatically receive huge PCS marks and those who don't shouldn't :rolleyes: PCS/presentation is WAY more then that and has been for decades you would think fans know that (and has nothing to do with federation politiking and such).

Sorry, but the Japanese girls may skate more polished but they're dull as dishwater (very strange considering how dynamic all the ladies from the Mao era and before were). I'll take all the imperfections Bradie or Mariah and the Russian girls have to offer over the precise cleanliness any day. It's far more organic feeling and less robotic.

I think a reason Bradie's PCS marks aren't going up despite the improvements is first the inconsistent skating this season and most of all the judges just don't care to have the American ladies on their radar anymore as first choices for podiums. I suppose the last decade of lackluster ladies and poor skating despite potential has put the judges off US ladies for now and Bradie is paying for that
 
mag said:
Judges should not be rewarding effort; they should be rewarding execution. They should also not be rewarding improvement unless that improvement actually earns the reward. This is a competition. Skaters should be rewarded for what they actually do.
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I think Bradie has made some significant strides this year. In particular I see a difference watching her short program. I'm SO GLAD she de-Scott Brown-ed herself.
 
NAOTMAA said:
most of all the judges just don't care to have the American ladies on their radar anymore as first choices for podiums
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Well Bradie landed on top of the podium at several competitions this season already.... so, theres that.......

and she landed on another podium in France.. she just missed a podium by one spot at one competition.

:kickass:

By the way did you speak to all the judges? and they told you that?
 
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