U.S. Ladies [#24]: Starr-Ting Order/Detailed Classification

[shuilee]

Why didn't anyone over-hype Hanna Harrell coming into Nationals? She totally shocked me with her 3lutz/3toe that got near unanimous +5 GoE from the judges! Those jumps are omg huge and never in danger of getting UR from even Shin Amano.

Love Alysa and she has the star quality. But I really wish Alysa had the jump height of Hanna or Ting to be that complete package. I do worry Alysa would get multiple URs like typical US lady in international competitions.

 

[avivadawn]

As much of an unabashed Alysa uber that I am....I was most impressed with Hanna and Ting’s current and hopefully future development based on their performances this championships.

 

[DimaToe]

There’s 1 month between 4CCs and Junior Worlds. Ting can certainly do both, if that’s what she and USFSA want. I can’t really see any reason not to do both. Although I’d personally be happy to see Megan W at 4CCs.

I’d rather see Wessenberg at some senior internationals. The “Method” seems to provide nice presentation, but not the higher technical content. Skaters like Wessenberd and Ma have nice qualities but skaters like Cui, and when age eligible, Harrell have more of a competitive advantage, so IMO that is where the focus should be. Plus Cui beat Wessenberg here so Megan being mentioned for 4cc is kind of

 

[aftershocks]

There's some competitive fire in a lot of them. We'll see how things shake out but I like what I see for this quadrennial.

There's lots of talent yes, which has always been the case for U.S. ladies. As you suggest, there's a lot yet that has to shake out. It takes seeing competitors' true grit in evidence over the long term before determining long-lasting competitive fire. A lot can change as young athletes grow to maturity.

 

[ZilphaK]

Why didn't anyone over-hype Hanna Harrell coming into Nationals? She totally shocked me with her 3lutz/3toe that got near unanimous +5 GoE from the judges! Those jumps are omg huge and never in danger of getting UR from even Shin Amano.

Love Alysa and she has the star quality that Hanna does not. But I really wish Alysa had the jump height of Hanna or Ting to be that complete package. I do worry Alysa would get multiple URs like typical US lady in international competitions.

I think Hanna has plenty of star quality, as evidenced by her Totally Teen Queen short program costume. I think she just needs to lean into it a bit more, maybe with a Cardi B rap during her footwork sequence or Radionova homage program. I think she was fantastic and am very much looking forward to her busting out all over with personality in the next few years, backed up by those monster jumps.

 

[UGG]

I honestly don’t get the “Bradie consistency” narrative. She has had one full, successful season and even then she fell at the Olympics. Hopefully it will stop now?

 

[NAOTMAA]

I think Hanna has plenty of star quality, as evidenced by her Totally Teen Queen short program costume. I think she just needs to lean into it a bit more, maybe with a Cardi B rap during her footwork sequence or Radionova homage program. I think she was fantastic and am very much looking forward to her busting out all over with personality in the next few years, backed up by those monster jumps.

I am so ready for Titanic 2.0

Those facial expressions and arm movements were just a dress rehearsal for the upcoming biggie weren't they

 

[haribobo]

Another thing to consider is that Ting might be 1st alternate to Senior Worlds. Doing 4cc, Jr Worlds, and then Sr Worlds if someone got injured, is a lot....

 

[DimaToe]

I honestly don’t get the “Bradie consistency” narrative. She has had one full, successful season and even then she fell at the Olympics. Hopefully it will stop now?

That might actually help her. While Tennell had a better competition last year at nationals. I feel like the top 5 tonight were at a higher level than the top 5 last year. A lot of us thought that post 2018 the U.S. would be struggling, but we have some good skaters in the pipeline. Tennell is an overall better skater now than last season, the top 5 are. It’s not often that such a thing happens. Fans should be happy about that.

 

[haribobo]

Interesting to note- Harrell's score this year would have her comfortably in 3rd place last year!

 

[NAOTMAA]

That might actually help her. While Tennell had a better competition last year at nationals. I feel like the top 5 tonight were at a higher level than the top 5 last year. A lot of us thought that post 2018 the U.S. would be struggling, but we have some good skaters in the pipeline. Tennell is an overall better skater now than last season, the top 5 are. It’s not often that such a thing happens. Fans should be happy about that.

So where does that leave Karen Chen?

Was she mentioned at all tonight in the commentary

 

[clairecloutier]

I’d rather see Wessenberg at some senior internationals. The “Method” seems to provide nice presentation, but not the higher technical content. Skaters like Wessenberd and Ma have nice qualities but skaters like Cui, and when age eligible, Harrell have more of a competitive advantage, so IMO that is where the focus should be. Plus Cui beat Wessenberg here so Megan being mentioned for 4cc is kind of

Megan is only being mentioned for 4CCs because most people assume Ting will be sent to Junior Worlds (as her highest-priority postseason assignment) and no one knows if either Ting or USFSA want her to do both events.

If Ting doesn’t do 4CCs, Megan is the next age-eligible lady based on Natls results.

 

[aftershocks]

While I see where you are coming from it is not fair to make assumptions about what Liu and her team can and can’t handle. Alyssa made history at this competition in more than one way and that isn’t something that can be ignored. Others might have crumbled under expectations in the past, but that’s the past, the mindset of the federation and the fandom isn’t the same than what it was 10 years ago. Lessons have been learned. I will agree with you about the tech panel (always the big issue at U.S. nationals) but I don’t think Liu will be showered with fame unless she makes it to the Olympic season, and even if she does or doesn’t make it to the big moment, what she has done tonight deserves to be celebrated. Admiration isn’t the same thing as overhyping.

That remains to be seen. Of course, it is best to avoid making comparisons of any kind, as every person is unique. So, we shall see whether the adults around Liu can help shield her from the glare, and allow her to mature as a person in her own right, knowing exactly who she is, and not succumbing to a view of how others perceive her. Just as Gracie expressed in the recent NY Times article. Young people are susceptible and vulnerable. I do hope that in Alysa's case, she is able to avoid the pitfalls and surmount the challenges. I still think the sport overdoes the adulation surrounding technical feats involving rotating fast in the air accomplished by young, prepubescent teenagers.

I also find the ridiculous, facile one-liners and over-hype by NBC to be annoying and embarrassing at the same time. It takes a lot of maturity and self-possession for a young athlete to overcome that kind of OTT blather. And I have this view as a result of following the sport for many years. To me, it seems that many fans and governing bodies have such a short term narrow view re the latest next young athlete to hype and to aid in becoming burnt out.

Of course it's fine to celebrate an athlete's talent, but the judges purposely or blithely missed Liu's under-rotations, and that shouldn't happen in the interest of hurriedly anointing a young phenom for whom a lot is being placed atop her shoulders. It's gonna take time anyway to see how her career transpires from here. I will be surprised if it's totally smooth sailing. Sure, Liu has enough talent to possibly weather the challenges. We'll see if she has the personality and make-up to persevere. A lot does depend on the guidance and wisdom of the adults closest to her.

 

[natsulian]

Hanna said she’s already looking forward to next season and that she might debut HER 3A. Her jumps are HUGE and she’s already working on Quads as well.

Ting is working on Quads and once she begins to gain momentum and consistency, she’ll start getting monstrous international scores.

Alysa... wow. I’ve known her since she was 11/12 and I’m so happy that she’s achieved ONE of her dreams of becoming National Champion. Now it’s the long road to Beijing.

Our ladies really showed up tonight and I have never been more excited for the future. A showdown between Russia, Japan, and the U.S. is going to be one heck of a fun ride.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Interesting to note- Harrell's score this year would have her comfortably in 3rd place last year!

I suppose the +5/-5 has changed things quite a bit. Bradie and Mirai who were close to flawless last year only got 145 and 140 respectfully. Meanwhile this year Mariah fell and had no 3-3 yet scored 142 (I side eye that score like I did her SP score but whatever) so yeah the standard is different this year

 

[DimaToe]

@

That remains to be seen. Of course, it is best to avoid making comparisons of any kind, as every person is unique. So, we shall see whether the adults around Liu can help shield her from the glare, and allow her to mature as a person in her own right, knowing exactly who she is, and not succumbing to a view of how others perceive her. Just as Gracie expressed in the recent NY Times article. Young people are susceptible and vulnerable. I do hope that in Alysa's case, she is able to avoid the pitfalls and surmount the challenges. I still think the sport overdoes the adulation surrounding technical feats involving rotating fast in the air accomplished by young, prepubescent teenagers.

I also find the ridiculous, facile one-liners and over-hype by NBC to be annoying and embarrassing at the same time. It takes a lot of maturity and self-possession for a young athlete to overcome that kind of OTT blather. And I have this view as a result of following the sport for many years. To me, it seems that many fans and governing bodies have such a short term narrow view re the latest next young athlete to hype and to aid in becoming burnt out.

Of course it's fine to celebrate an athlete's talent, but they really missed those under-rotations, and that shouldn't happen in the interest of hurriedly anointing a young phenom for whom a lot is being placed atop her shoulders. It's gonna take time anyway to see how her career transpires from here. I will be surprised if it's totally smooth sailing. Sure, Liu has enough talent to possibly weather the challenges. We'll see if she has the personality and make-up to persevere. A lot does depend on the guidance and wisdom of the adults closest to her.

@aftershocks, you’re quoting my posts, but I don’t think you’re replying, just continuing on expressing your own opinions.

 

[livetoskate]

Just got back from the arena and settled back into my hotel room. What a wonderful night of terrific skating!! U.S. ladies skating is out of the doldrums. I felt that the energy of the audience was great tonight. When Ting Cui skated, you could tell she was far beyond the level of the previous skaters. Everything she did was elegant and perfect. She got a huge standing ovation. Everyone was supportive of even the skaters who didn't do too well, such as Amber Glenn. It was sad to see her having tears in her eyes after her skate. I really had hope she would make the podium this year finally.

I guess it would be too repetitive to say that almost all of the skaters were exciting to watch in their own special ways. Poor Emmy Ma wasn't doing well with her jumps during the warm-up, so I wasn't surprised when she faltered during her actual performance. But I was moved by her presentation skills and her excellent basic skating skills. Hanna skates with a lot of charisma. I enjoyed Starr's music and choreography.

Brady's speed and power was impressive but the whole time I kept thinking about how skeletal she looked in real life. I'm really happy for Alysa and her coach Laura. Even though Alysa is a lot shorter than Bradie and therefore doesn't seem as powerful, she presented and reached everybody up in the arena. Everybody was cheering and smiling along with her, or so it seemed. Skating after Alysa, Mariah did not seem as exciting or energetic. Anyway, all in all, these ladies made the trip and the freezing cold weather in Detroit worth it! I can't wait to see how the pairs and men do tomorrow!

 

[aftershocks]

@

@aftershocks, you’re quoting my posts, but I don’t think you’re replying, just continuing on expressing your own opinions.

Well that's your view of my perceptions then. I could say exactly the same of you.

Bottom line is that we simply do not agree, and there's nothing wrong with not agreeing. I don't respond in order to convince you to think the way I do, which also does not negate how I view the situation.

 

[aftershocks]

I think a lot of people feel that way, but if they're not landing their jumps and having trouble just doing a basic 6-7 triple routine without falling, then what can you do?

I understand what you are saying and I agree, as I mentioned earlier, that Bradie, Mariah, and Amber took their eyes off their prize, which is unfortunate for them. Still, 'a basic 6-7 triple routine' in this day and age is obviously not a piece of cake to accomplish with everything else these athletes also have to put together with their jumps.

Why didn't anyone over-hype Hanna Harrell coming into Nationals? She totally shocked me with her 3lutz/3toe that got near unanimous +5 GoE from the judges! Those jumps are omg huge and never in danger of getting UR from even Shin Amano.

Love Alysa and she has the star quality. But I really wish Alysa had the jump height of Hanna or Ting to be that complete package. I do worry Alysa would get multiple URs like typical US lady in international competitions.

I'd say not being over-hyped can be a good thing. Bring the surprises and hopefully avoid the over-expectations.

Alysa is talented, but IMO, she still has a lot to learn and a long way to go. Maybe Alysa will be able to develop more height on her jumps as she matures, and that might also help her to avoid URs. The judges at U.S. Nationals certainly weren't interested in calling at least 3 URs in Alysa's fp.

 

[Jarrett]

Im hoping Ting gets 4CC if she wants it. While Megan is much improved and I enjoyed her skates this season there really isn't a comparison in the technical difficulty department. Megan can get the host pick again at SA if no other ladies show promise in the summer but I really can't see her going anywhere internationally with her current jump content, same with Starr. Starr has to step it up because while the crowd loves her, those pcs marks were bad and the programs seemed like a regression. I'm quite surprised with Mariah's marks but the U.S. judges have always loved her and I missed her entire performance because of the loud group behind me so I have to go back and look at it.

Hanna was consistent this event so hopefully she can build on that and do the same at Jr. World's. She doesn't have the best stretch at this point but was still very enjoyable. Bradie was Bradie and will probably be lapped come next season but might make another World team in 2020 because of the age restrictions.

 

[nimi]

She was hilarious in the kiss and cry after the free skate. Rafael was obviously disappointed with her, but she was trying to make light of it.

Somebody on twitter made a gif: Mariah Bell, K&C legend

 

[Tinami Amori]

Alyssa Liu is the best "US thing" i have seen in a long time. I am so happy she won! and Bradie did a very good job too.

I hope age changes for seniors... starting from 13 years. If one can show "best" in an activity when one is 13, then change the bloody age to "when they can do the most in a specific venue, based on merit".

I don't want to see "Neapolitan brides, with body features ready for motherhood of multiple children". I want to see a group of people who can do the maximum... young, fit, trim and doing the impossible.

"Mature skating" is overrated.. most of these girls don't have the education anyway to understand the "cultural depth, social implication, political climate and historic meaning" of Evita, Cosette, Carmen, Varinya, etc.. Waving arms with "sense of significance" is not maturity..

Whatever happens to Alyssa in years to come, she should be a figure in US Figure Skating hall of fame... 3 blimey 3A'! clean in one event...

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

So many new and exciting faces in the senior ladies' event, as well as a lot of great skates today. Team USA can be very proud.

 

[MIsty Blades/Skate Mom]

I was very happy with the performances tonight. The 2009 Ladies FS competition has many younger skaters competing in the senior ranks. For the next 4 years, IMHO, the key for the US ladies is to continue developing artistry, improving technical content, staying healthy and maintaining consistency in their performances. All that is not easy. We have seen our a few of our top skaters struggle to deal with the internal and external pressures of public life in skating. I am hoping that USFSA is able to properly nurture our current crop of skaters throughout this quad. I wonder if any sports psychology work is done with our skaters to help deal with the trials and tribulations of being a world class athlete?

Having moved out to SF Bay Area from the Detroit suburbs, I can only imagine the icy weather at the championships. I'm enjoying our temperate winter weather in the low 60s (F).

 

[all_empty]

Going off the telecast (in order of finish)

Liu: What an impressive debut. There were definitely some UR, especially on the combinations, but hopefully those will get cleaner with more speed and power. She's an exciting prospect that needs to be nutured carefully as she matures.

Tennell: Don't count Bradie out. She's only 20 and improving leaps and bounds each season. The focus and fire in the short was incredible -- she could be in the final group at Worlds with a skate like that. I wonder if she should just stick to two 3Lz+3T in the free skate.

Bell: I really enjoy Mariah and understand why the international judges do as well. She really needs to get that 7th triple back in her free skate -- perhaps a 3F+1Lo+3S -- and get that technical score up.

Harrell: I'm almost more excited about Hannah than Alysa. Really sound jumping technique. And competitive as well, with two 3Lz and two 3F. I'll have to watch again but did she do an arm variation on her 2A+1Lo+3S as well?

Cui: Great rebound from the poor short. Love her long balletic lines. Needs to work on her expression and power but very promising.

Wessenberg: Good speed. Backed off on the content a little (no 3-3 or 3Lo, if I recall) and needs it to push through to the top ranks.

Glenn: A missed opportunity. She really looks like Sotskova, especially in the short. I didn't really care for the music in the free but loved her costume and styling. Her technique can be a bit wild/sloppy and the edge jumps got away from her.

Andrews: She definitely had iffy landings as well but I thought the first minute was dynamic. Starr has the potential to have some beautiful balletic lines. Even if her camp doesn't go that route, I'd love to see her sharpen her positions more (spirals, squats, etc.). Lovely flexibility in the spins.

Ma: Really strange edits to "Spartacus." I liked her programs last year better -- this one felt very one note. Still, the best musicality in the field. Just not enough technical content to be competitive.

Nakahara: Not bad. Essentially a clean skate in her first outing, and so comfortable with the crowd. It's nice to see someone smiling through their program. Definitely needs more speed, especially with Wessenberg following.

McIssac: Not the best outing for Brynne. Nice spins though.

I don't think things are doom and gloom at all, with Liu, Harrell, and Cui all showing great promise. I also think Andrews will continue to improve.

 

[wickedwitch]

Why didn't anyone over-hype Hanna Harrell coming into Nationals? She totally shocked me with her 3lutz/3toe that got near unanimous +5 GoE from the judges! Those jumps are omg huge and never in danger of getting UR from even Shin Amano.

Because, thus far, she's been inconsistent with her jumps. I'm hoping that changes. But I've been a huge fan and have hyped her a bunch on these threads.

ETA: My comments from sectionals last season.... So proud of both of them this week!

But holy crap, Hanna Harrell! Absolutely dominant this week. I'm hoping her jumping technique has solidified and it's not a once in a lifetime competition. But USFSA's decision to send her to the last JGP is looking really good right now.

(ETA: I wasn't taking notes, but I'm fairly sure she landed 7 triples including 2 Lutzes and two flips. A few may have been slightly under though.)

And I haven't watched it yet, but I'm thrilled Megan pulled up to qualify for Nats!

 

[Vagabond]

I know something interesting will come to you @Vagabond.

Oh, it has, @aftershocks

 

[Debbie S]

Just posted....Ting assigned to 4CC with Bradie and Mariah. Ting, Hanna, Starr, Emmy, and Gabby Izzo and Audrey Shin invited to JW training camp, where team selections will be made from now on.

https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/...r-continents-teams-and-world-junior-camp.aspx

 

[clairecloutier]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ifsmagazine/status/1089161915602030593

It’s Cui, Bell, and Tennell for 4CCs.

Bell and Tennell for Worlds.

 

[her grace]

Sorry but Izzo would be like struggling to qualify for the LP or something with what I read she completed at Nats.

I’d pick Ting and Harrell for the jr. world team, but they are both high-risk, high reward skaters. Izzo OTOH isn’t going to be a worldbeater, but has been the most reliable competitor of the three.

Izzo has decent results on the JGP. I wouldn’t worry at all about her qualifying to the FS. If anything, Ting with her two-fall disaster natls SP is less likely to qualify to the FS. Though if Ting makes it through, she can fight for a top-3 country placement.