U.S. Ladies [#24]: Starr-Ting Order/Detailed Classification

[Karen-W]

I’m very curious, is Harrell eligible for 4cc? The senior and jr worlds team seem pretty clear, but I think that even though she beat Cui at nationals, that Cui should get a 4CC spots based on that LP. There’s a lot of potential for both, but I believe that Cui is farther along and it would be good to get her out on a senior level championship ASAP.

According to other posters in the Ladies FP thread, no, she just missed the cutoff.

My initial thoughts after this year's US Ladies comp. Bradie will always have 2018 and she should cherish her Olympic bronze. As much as I admire her grit and tenacity and willingness to work and improve her weaknesses, I don't think she'll be competing for the US in Beijing. Too many other US ladies coming up through the pipeline and I haven't been this excited about the latest fresh crop of new senior ladies in a long time. There's some competitive fire in a lot of them. We'll see how things shake out but I like what I see for this quadrennial.

 

[shuilee]

Ting Cui is 3rd highest finisher among age eligible skaters. She should go for 4CC unless she declines. If it were me, I'd rather go to 4CC than Jr Worlds.

Harrell and Izzo (Jr ladies champion) should go to Jr Worlds. Ting is a senior lady now and 4CC is more important for her career growth.

 

[VGThuy]

What's Izzo's jump content like?

ETA: Just checked out her protocols...no she's not ready for Junior Worlds. If there was a Novice Worlds maybe.

 

[jlai]

Ting Cui is 3rd highest finisher among age eligible skaters. She should go for 4CC unless she declines. If it were me, I'd rather go to 4CC than Jr Worlds.

Harrell and Izzo (Jr ladies champion) should go to Jr Worlds. Ting is a senior lady now and 4CC is more important for her career growth.

USFS desperately needs a strong lady at jr world if they want 2 spots back at each jgp next year. Or else they may be stuck with 1jgp spot every event.

 

[VGThuy]

USFS desperately needs a strong lady at jr world if they want 2 spots back at each jgp next year. Or else they may be stuck with 1jgp spot every event.

Exactly.

 

[semogal]

I don’t like little girls skating in senior ladies. I prefer mature artistry, power and grace. Not jumping beans. And I worry about the long term health of young phenoms.

 

[VGThuy]

I don’t like little girls skating in senior ladies. I prefer mature artistry, power and grace. Not jumping beans. And I worry about the long term health of young phenoms.

I think a lot of people feel that way, but if they're not landing their jumps and having trouble just doing a basic 6-7 triple routine without falling, then what can you do?

 

[shuilee]

But what if Ting doesn't want to do Jr Worlds? It'd be unfair if USFS forces her to go to Jr Worlds when she really wants to go to 4CC! It's better for her personal career to go to 4CC. I don't think Ting owes USFS anything. She should get to go to the competition that she earned!

 

[DimaToe]

Ting Cui is 3rd highest finisher among age eligible skaters. She should go for 4CC unless she declines. If it were me, I'd rather go to 4CC than Jr Worlds.

Harrell and Izzo (Jr ladies champion) should go to Jr Worlds. Ting is a senior lady now and 4CC is more important for her career growth.

I believe Cui should do both 4CC and junior worlds. It’d give her a taste of what to expect internationally next season. The USFS has to take advantage of 4cc being on home turf, the logistics are way simpler than when 4cc are held in Asia.

 

[VGThuy]

But what if Ting doesn't want to do Jr Worlds? It'd be unfair if USFS forces her to go to Jr Worlds when she really wants to go to 4CC! It's better for her personal career to go to 4CC. I don't think Ting owes USFS anything. She should get to go to the competition that she earned!

I bet they'll let her do both rather than not give her 4CC and make her do Jr. Worlds. They probably really want her to do Jr. Worlds. Plus, the skaters at Jr. Worlds will be the big guns in seniors next year. If Cui can do well against them, she'll set herself up well for next year. Sorry but Izzo would be like struggling to qualify for the LP or something with what I read she completed at Nats.

 

[nickp]

Alysa Liu winning US Nationals at 13 is freaking incredible

 

[missing]

Will Alysa Liu be old enough for JGP in 2019? Since they can't send her to Skate America, might they send her to Lake Placid instead? Or will she miss the cutoff for that as well?

 

[Karen-W]

I bet they'll let her do both rather than not give her 4CC and make her do Jr. Worlds. They probably really want her to do Jr. Worlds. Plus, the skaters at Jr. Worlds will be the big guns in seniors next year. If Cui can do well against them, she'll set herself up well for next year. Sorry but Izzo would be like struggling to qualify for the LP or something with what I read she completed at Nats.

How far apart are 4CCs and JWs this year? If it's 3 or more weeks then I agree, they'll probably let her do both if she wants.

 

[MIsty Blades/Skate Mom]

She was hilarious in the kiss and cry after the free skate. Rafael was obviously disappointed with her, but she was trying to make light of it.

Mariah bell is so cute

 

[DreamSkates]

Alysa Liu winning US Nationals at 13 is freaking incredible

Will she go to Jr Worlds since she won't be eligible for Sr Worlds for a couple of years?

 

[sharsk8s]

For some reason I am less worried about alyssa's health than sasha and anna. I actually think trusova might come out of puberty okay same with Alyssa. They both have a more muscular build that will hopefully get them through. Plus it seems like Alyssa has a good support system with family and coaches that don't push her too far.

 

[VGThuy]

I think Cui should do both honestly. It'll be like training to do 4CC and then Worlds when/if she ever qualifies for Worlds.

Will she go to Jr Worlds since she won't be eligible for Sr Worlds for a couple of years?

She's not eligible until next year.

 

[sharsk8s]

Will she go to Jr Worlds since she won't be eligible for Sr Worlds for a couple of years?

She is too young for junior worlds also lol

 

[DimaToe]

I don’t like little girls skating in senior ladies. I prefer mature artistry, power and grace. Not jumping beans. And I worry about the long term health of young phenoms.

It is not Alyssa’s fault that “mature” skaters didn’t step up like they should have. She was the best competitor at these nationals.

 

[Wyliefan]

She was hilarious in the kiss and cry after the free skate. Rafael was obviously disappointed with her, but she was trying to make light of it.

I'll bet Ashley had a good laugh.

 

[DreamSkates]

She is too young for junior worlds also lol

Oh my! Well, she'll have some time to up her components and artistry and keep her technical game going for when she's ready at least for Jr Worlds (next year?). And please stay healthy!

 

[VGThuy]

Russia and the U.S. are competing with one another with who can have the most age-ineligible skaters place over their Senior Worlds team at Nationals. Russia has more but the U.S. has the youngest.

 

[ZilphaK]

I have no worries about Lui and her team's decisions regarding jump content and training. I'm sure that they more than anyone see the long road ahead and want to keep her healthy.

I do have worries that excessive hand-wringing and the social media crap from some adults who should know better but can't help themselves will be overwhelming, and if I were her parents, I'd raise her like an Amish schoolgirl from here on out, except without all the smoking I see Amish teen girls doing. Also, I guess a lot of them do also have smartphones. So strike that. Just don't let her on the Instagrams and Twitters.

I have even more worries for all the kids who skate Bob's Ice Rink whose coaches will push them earlier and earlier to do jumps the coaches aren't experienced in teaching, and who will hit the deck over and over and over again in the attempt.

And actually, I'm not even worried about them all that much, because I'm much more worried about my 70 lb. son moving up to the checking level in hockey next year, as long as we're talking about kids and sports worries.

 

[DimaToe]

Russia and the U.S. are competing with one another with who can have the most age-ineligible skaters place over their Senior Worlds team at Nationals. Russia has more but the U.S. has the youngest.

So 10 years from now it might be a literal sonogram doing quintuple Lutzes from her mother’s womb? With Wagner as commentator of course

 

[VGThuy]

So 10 years from now it might be a literal sonogram doing quintuple Lutzes from her mother’s womb? With Wagner as commentator of course

With skates on? Ouch!

 

[aftershocks]

Alysa Liu is very talented and very athletic. She was very good in the short program, and I don't think she under-rotated there. But in the fp, I think her second 3-axel was slightly under-rotated and she looked to have made at least two additional under-rotations. I only noticed one being under review. They should have called the URs, because I don't think Liu will get away with too many URs internationally.

I hope people are brought back down to earth, because Liu is only 13, and she can't compete at senior international competitions for two years. NBC is laying on the hype machine so very thick. I really wish they wouldn't do that. Please allow a 13-year-old the chance to grow up. IMO, it remains to be seen if Liu's precocious feats are going to rescue the sport in the U.S. I really hope they learn from all the hype and over-expectations that were piled on Gracie Gold. Teenagers really need a chance to breathe, to grow up, and to not be smothered by fame and too much too soon. Young teenyboppers have to go through puberty and growth spurts as well as emotional maturation. The sport has ups-and-downs for every athlete. It's not all a bed of roses.

Meanwhile, it's too bad that Bradie lost her focus. I was surprised because she's usually able to keep her cool. Perhaps Bradie allowed the over-hype surrounding Liu to distract her focus. Still, everything is a learning experience, and failure should always be embraced in order for growth to happen. In this instance, Bradie, Mariah and Amber seemingly let the pressure get to them (perhaps from the performances of some of the youngsters) and they ended up giving up what was right there for them to grab and take hold of. There's always tomorrow of course, and never say die, but it's a good thing to not continue allowing opportunities to pass you by.

USFS needs Bradie and Mariah until the new crop becomes senior age eligible. As well, Bradie and Mariah need to find their A-game consistently if they hope to even hold the fort a little bit internationally until the younger crew is able to compete in seniors. This ladies event at US Nationals makes me think how much changes and yet at the same time, remains the same.

IMO, the judges should have examined Liu's under-rotations, and not rushed to over-anoint a 13-year-old. That didn't work out too well for Mirai Nagasu. She ended up having a long road to traverse after winning Nationals herself at age 14. I do understand that Bradie and Mariah (and Amber too) let their prize get away from them. Amber could have been on the podium and established herself as a player. At this point, it seems she has set herself up instead to continue being an 'also-ran.' And Mariah was in position to at least skate her best, even if the numbers still might not have placed her on top of the podium. It's certainly not a vote of confidence for how they are viewed in terms of reputation, for Mariah and Bradie to go to 4CCs and Worlds with neither being U.S. champion.

Can't anyone else see those under-rotations Liu made? They were obvious to me. Looking at the protocols, no under-rotations went against Liu. There's only an edge call, if that's what ! means. I also think Liu is slightly over-scored on GOE and PCS at this point in her career. But I know that's the trend: over-reward precocious teenagers on GOE and PCS, while exclaiming over their ability to rotate fast in the air.

Of all these U.S. ladies, I think Ting Cui actually has the most complete, all-around potential for the future, if she can continue to grow in confidence, remain healthy, steadily develop her exquisite talents, and become mentally stronger. Cui is really lovely to watch. It's a good thing for Cui to have the chance to mature without the hype machine blasting around her full-force. I'd choose that scenario over glaring notoriety and the huge over-expectations that accompany the hype-machine.

What's the rule for receiving byes to U.S. Nationals? With her 8th place finish, would Starr Andrews have to compete through Sectionals next season to make it back to Nationals?

 

[clairecloutier]

There’s 1 month between 4CCs and Junior Worlds. Ting can certainly do both, if that’s what she and USFSA want. I can’t really see any reason not to do both. Although I’d personally be happy to see Megan W at 4CCs.

 

[Debbie S]

I'm sure Ting will be happy with any int'l assignment she gets, and I assume she will get JW. Whether she also gets 4CC will be interesting to see. The comps are a month apart and doing 2 major int'ls is a lot, but then again, there's not much travel involved with 4CC this year, so...

I am thrilled for Ting for her skate tonight and I hope she is relishing the moment. This is her first year in Seniors, 5th overall and 3rd in the FS is pretty amazing. Every comp is part of the learning and growing process and no matter where she goes, she will gain valuable experience.

 

[DimaToe]

Alysa Liu is very talented and very athletic. She was very good in the short program, and I don't think she under-rotated there. But in the fp, I think her second 3-axel was slightly under-rotated and she looked to have made at least two additional under-rotations. I only noticed one being under review. They should have called the URs, because I don't think Liu will get away with too many URs internationally.

I hope people are brought back down to earth, because Liu is only 13, and she can't compete at senior international competitions for two years. NBC is laying on the hype machine so very thick. I really wish they wouldn't do that. Please allow a 13-year-old the chance to grow up. IMO, it remains to be seen if Liu's precocious feats are going to rescue the sport in the U.S. I really hope they learn from all the hype and over-expectations that were piled on Gracie Gold. Teenagers really need a chance to breathe, to grow up, and to not be smothered by fame and too much too soon. Young teenyboppers have to go through puberty and growth spurts as well as emotional maturation. The sport has ups-and-downs for every athlete. It's not all a bed of roses.

Meanwhile, it's too bad that Bradie lost her focus. I was surprised because she's usually able to keep her cool. Perhaps Bradie allowed the over-hype surrounding Liu to distract her focus. Still, everything is a learning experience, and failure should always be embraced in order for growth to happen. In this instance, Bradie, Mariah and Amber seemingly let the pressure get to them (perhaps from the performances of some of the youngsters) and they ended up giving up what was right there for them to grab and take hold of. There's always tomorrow of course, and never say die, but it's a good thing to not continue allowing opportunities to pass you by.

USFS needs Bradie and Mariah until the new crop becomes senior age eligible. As well, Bradie and Mariah need to find their A-game consistently if they hope to even hold the fort a little bit internationally until the younger crew is able to compete in seniors. This ladies event at US Nationals makes me think how much changes and yet at the same time, remains the same.

IMO, the judges should have examined Liu's under-rotations, and not rushed to over-anoint a 13-year-old. That didn't work out too well for Mirai Nagasu. She ended up having a long road to traverse after winning Nationals herself at age 14. I do understand that Bradie and Mariah (and Amber too) let their prize get away from them. Amber could have been on the podium and established herself as a player. At this point, it seems she has set herself up instead to continue being an 'also-ran.' And Mariah was in position to at least skate her best, even if the numbers still might not have placed her on top of the podium. It's certainly not a vote of confidence for how they are viewed in terms of reputation, for Mariah and Bradie to go to 4CCs and Worlds with neither being U.S. champion.

Can't anyone else see those under-rotations Liu made? They were obvious to me. Looking at the protocols, no under-rotations went against Liu. There's only an edge call, if that's what ! means. I also think Liu is slightly over-scored on GOE and PCS at this point in her career. But I know that's the trend: over-reward precocious teenagers on GOE and PCS, while exclaiming over their ability to rotate fast in the air.

Of all these U.S. ladies, I think Ting Cui actually has the most complete, all-around potential for the future, if she can continue to grow in confidence, remain healthy, steadily develop her exquisite talents, and become mentally stronger. Cui is really lovely to watch. It's a good thing for Cui to have the chance to mature without the hype machine blasting around her full-force. I'd choose that scenario over glaring notoriety and the huge over-expectations that accompany the hype-machine.

What's the rule for receiving byes to U.S. Nationals? With her 8th place finish, would Starr Andrews have to compete through Sectionals next season to make it back to Nationals?

While I see where you are coming from it is not fair to make assumptions about what Liu and her team can and can’t handle. Alyssa made history at this competition in more than one way and that isn’t something that can be ignored. Others might have crumbled under expectations in the past, but that’s the past, the mindset of the federation and the fandom isn’t the same than what it was 10 years ago. Lessons have been learned. I will agree with you about the tech panel (always the big issue at U.S. nationals) but I don’t think Liu will be showered with fame unless she makes it to the Olympic season, and even if she does or doesn’t make it to the big moment, what she has done tonight deserves to be celebrated. Admiration isn’t the same thing as overhyping.

 

[ZilphaK]

There's only an edge call, if that's what ! means.

A ! means the judges aren't quite sure if it's an edge call, not an edge call, who can say?

Sometimes it just means "WOW, skating is a subjective sport, especially when it comes to flips and lutzes!"