U.S. Ladies [#24]: Starr-Ting Order/Detailed Classification

[Vagabond]

I will start a new thread after Nationals.

Possible thread titles:

The Beauty of Being Young and Naive (courtesy of @Aerobicidal)
Adult Contemporary Overdose (courtesy of @SamuraiK) (I might change the last word to "Overload.")
Bradie and the Bunch (always appropriate)
You Say Tomato, I Saitama Too
Tennell Rotation Method (or something else for that second word?)

Your suggestions are welcome.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

^^ I have. Bell had a 3/2 for a combo. not a 3/3.. DOnr care what judges here said.. Where is Shin when you need him??? lol Glenn more speed, a bit more expression and artistry.

@VIETgrlTerifa

What a competition tho! I am thrilled.

@VIETgrlTerifa Im gonna add more to this post.... what Im saying is that that 3/3 was for SURE a 3/2. And I want to send the footage to Shin. LOL Even Tara said looks like more a downgrade.

 

[VGThuy]

^^ I have. Bell had a 3/2 for a combo. not a 3/3.. Glenn more speed, a bit more expression and artistry.

@VIETgrlTerifa

What a competition tho! I am thrilled.

Bell did a 3/3 that was called > like at Golden Spin.

https://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2019/27958/CAT017SEG033.html

I agree to disagree regarding who had more "expression" and "artistry".

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I will start a new thread after Nationals.

Possible thread titles:

The Beauty of Being Young and Naive (courtesy of @Aerobicidal)
Adult Contemporary Overdose (courtesy of @SamuraiK) (I might change the last word to "Overload.")
Bradie and the Bunch (always appropriate)
You Say Tomato, I Saitama Too
Tennell Competition Method (or something else for that second word?)

Your suggestions are welcome.

First there was The Trusova, then The Kihira and Now The Liu! lol

 

[NAOTMAA]

Johnny(?) was right when he said Ting just seem to give up on her jumps. It looked like she just sat down without even trying to save them. That's too bad because the program is lovely

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Johnny(?) was right when he said Ting just seem to give up on her jumps. It looked like she just sat down without even trying to save them. That's too bad because the program is lovely

She has that exquisite physique... I could watch her for days.

But I didnt include her in my top 3 because watching her on JGP circuit the last 2 seasons I noticed her inconsistencies. Like Hicks.

Glenn has them too but I just had a feeling from what I had been reading.

 

[VGThuy]

Watched it in slo-mo and paused it, and Bell is within the UR area not the DG area. It was obviously UR though. Even if you think Glenn should have placed higher, again, Bradie had more inflation than Bell did and we obviously don't know how Glenn would have scored with that skate internationally as her only international SP score this season was like 58.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

^^^^ I thought inflation on Bradie, yes.. thought she would be just slightly above Liu.

Glenn doesn't have the clout internationally so even if Glenn finished one spot above Bell at Nats Im in favor of Bell going.

Her toe pick on the ice seems for sure DG to me in SP. (Bell)

 

[aftershocks]

Tennell Competition Method (or something else for that second word?)

Tennell Can-Do Method

However, we don't want to jinx our Bradie, so maybe something more neutral overall. I know something interesting will come to you @Vagabond.

 

[VGThuy]

^^^^ I thought inflation on Bradie, yes.. thought she would be just slightly above Liu.

Glenn doesn't have the clout internationally so even if Glenn finished one spot above Bell at Nats Im in favor of Bell going.

Her toe pick on the ice seems for sure DG to me in SP. (Bell)

Maybe I'm reading it wrong. It doesn't matter though because Glenn is only 1 point behind Bell, so Bell can't afford to make mistakes in the LP, especially if Glenn skates as well as she did in the SP. It's basically a tie. Even when Bell rotates her 3/3, the second half jump is always so whippy that I'm afraid she doesn't get all the way around when she actually does. I wonder how Raf is addressing it since he's the jump coach.

 

[NAOTMAA]

If Bradie got a bigger score inflation from what she normally got during the season its because she deserved a lead of a few points over Liu and since they gave Liu such a huge score they had no choice but to inflate Bradie more

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

@VIETgrlTerifa did you check out the start orders?

https://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2019/27958/CAT017SEG036.html

 

[NAOTMAA]

I'm glad Bradie is skating before Alysa and Mariah. She can set the standard they got to match and most importantly it will calm my nerves a bit more then if she were skating after them


Ugh, who am I kidding of course it won't. I simultaneously love and hate these competitions

 

[avivadawn]

@VIETgrlTerifa did you check out the start orders?

https://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2019/27958/CAT017SEG036.html

For some reason, I like that Mariah closes the show.

 

[aftershocks]

Watched it in slo-mo and paused it, and Bell is within the UR area not the DG area. It was obviously UR though. Even if you think Glenn should have placed higher, again, Bradie had more inflation than Bell did and we obviously don't know how Glenn would have scored with that skate internationally as her only international SP score this season was like 58.

^^^^ I thought inflation on Bradie, yes.. thought she would be just slightly above Liu.

Glenn doesn't have the clout internationally so even if Glenn finished one spot above Bell at Nats Im in favor of Bell going. Her toe pick on the ice seems for sure DG to me in SP. (Bell)

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who feels Amber was a bit squeezed on the marks. Amber skated clean, but they were so interested in scrutinzing everything she did. I thought Amber's tech scores were okay though, but she should have at least received 2 more points on PCS. Amber has very lovely aesthetics. It's definitely politics to see them place Amber just percentage points behind Mariah who had a mistake on her 3/3 combo. At least 71 for Amber would be fair, but it's just scoring manipulation. The judges are saying to Amber: 'Prove it again in the fp.' So we'll see what happens.

You are right @ANL, that even should Amber beat Mariah overall, USFS would send Mariah to Worlds if Mariah skates reasonably well even should she land behind Amber (and she won't if they both skate well in the fp). Internationally reputation-wise, no matter how well she skates, Amber would not be given the marks. That's figure skating.

Anyway, kudos to those who did well and made top six. Middle group wasn't too bad either.

ETA: Sorry for Ting Cui. Hopefully, it's a lesson learned and she shakes off her nerves for the fp. Starr didn't skate as well as she can either. I hope she can pick it up for the fp too. Megan Wessenberg would have been at least 64 or 65 perhaps had she not popped a triple.

 

[VGThuy]

@VIETgrlTerifa did you check out the start orders?

https://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2019/27958/CAT017SEG036.html

Oh Jesus Christ, my nerves.

 

[DimaToe]

If Glenn beats Bell I don’t see why they would pick Bell over Glenn. Bell didnt medal on the GP, didn’t medal last year at nationals, and while respectable, was the 3rd U.S. at worlds last year placing 12th. The “body of work” argument just isn’t applicable in this instance. A post Olympic year is just not the time to pick favorites and the best time to just let nationals placements decide the championship teams.

 

[wickedwitch]

Why is Ma behind Liu in PCS? Actually, why is Ma behind anyone in PCS?

 

[VGThuy]

If Glenn beats Bell I don’t see why they would pick Bell over Glenn. Bell didnt medal on the GP, didn’t medal last year at nationals, and while respectable, was the 3rd U.S. at worlds last year placing 12th. The “body of work” argument just isn’t applicable in this instance. A post Olympic year just inst the time to pick favorites and the best time to just let nationals placements decide the championship teams.

I agree. If Glenn beats Mariah, Glenn deserves to go.

 

[DimaToe]

Why is Ma behind Liu in PCS? Actually, why is Ma behind anyone in PCS?

Ma’s method wasn’t the one the judges were looking for.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

^^ Ma captured my attention too, lovely fluid artistry. Maybe because she is more newby?

 

[VGThuy]

I think it’s because Ma didn’t even go for the 3/3 and did badly at Junior Worlds last year.

 

[aftershocks]

If Glenn beats Bell is don’t see why they would pick Bell over Glenn. Bell didnt medal on the GP, didn’t medal last year at nationals, and while respectable, was the 3rd U.S. at worlds last year placing 12th. The “body of work” argument just isn’t applicable in this instance. A post Olympic year just inst the time to pick favorites and the best time to just let nationals placements decide the championship teams.

Mariah Bell is well known and appreciated by senior international judges, plus Bell did fairly well on the circuit this season. She got some good marks. Amber Glenn I don't believe had a GP event. I believe Glenn faired decently at some of her senior Bs, but Glenn is not known for being consistent, despite having top-level tech talent and lovely aesthetics that continue to improve.

Body of work is applicable when you compare Bell and Glenn head-to-head. I'm not sure what you are looking at. The reputation factor is also at play here. Regarding the talent of both these ladies, they are fairly even. Glenn may even have higher tech ability, but they both have a history of tech inconsistencies and faltering under pressure. At times this season, they both have seemed to make strides in overcoming their nerves under pressure. But still, Bell is better known internationally, and that makes a difference in the decisionmaking by USFS.

Believe me I love Amber, and I'm hoping she rocks it just to show herself she can do it, and gain some confidence. She's a beautiful lady, and she really deserves to prove it to herself and achieve a personal best overall. Fingers-crossed for her. I don't think for her it's necessarily about making Worlds, but just performing well and getting a 4CC nod would be so great for Amber!

 

[NAOTMAA]

I haven't seen her name mentioned but despite the flub on the first jump I was really impressed with Megan Wessenburg. Her speed was amazing and she landed her jumps (great height!) like she was landing on a cloud, so soft Too bad from what I can tell like so many others she's a bit of a headcase

 

[DimaToe]

Mariah Bell is well known and appreciated by senior international judges, plus Bell did fairly well on the circuit this season. She got some good marks. Amber Glenn I don't believe had a GP event. I believe Glenn faired decently at some of her senior Bs, but Glenn is not known for being consistent, despite having top-level tech talent and lovely aesthetics that continue to improve.

Body of work is applicable when you compare Bell and Glenn head-to-head. I'm not sure what you are looking at. The reputation factor is also at play here. Regarding the talent of both these ladies, they are fairly even. Glenn may even have higher tech ability, but they both have a history of tech inconsistencies and faltering under pressure. At times this season, they both have seemed to make strides in overcoming their nerves under pressure. But still, Bell is better known internationally, and that makes a difference in the decisionmaking by USFS.

This is a results driven sport, as history proves it the USFS will jump onboard the moment any of the women finally deliver to their “potential” Bell didn’t exactly bring the medals home this first half of the season. USFS has passed way more accomplished skaters in the past. I don’t see why in a season that is generally seen as rebuilding they would favor someone that isn’t consistent over somebody that “might” (keyword) finally deliver a competition fitting of their abilities. Please see Karen Chen in 2017-18 if you need some examples.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I haven't seen her name mentioned but despite the flub on the first jump I was really impressed with Megan Wessenburg. Her speed was amazing and she landed her jumps (great height!) like she was landing on a cloud, so soft Too bad from what I can tell like so many others she's a bit of a headcase

Check my original post on previous page. I commented on how amazed I was with her Speed! Skate America was my first time seeing her!!!

 

[natsulian]

Nationals this year is seeming to be a turning point for the U.S. ladies. We have Intermediate ladies with clean triple-triple combos and Novice ladies who have a fighting spirit and are trying out 3Lz-Lo. Juniors next year will be highly contested. Additionally, Alysa is being set up really well for her Junior Grand Prix debut. Hanna will stay in Junior probably and once she starts to become consistent, could really shake things up. The next wave of ladies are ready to take over.

 

[VGThuy]

Nationals this year is seeming to be a turning point for the U.S. ladies. We have Intermediate ladies with clean triple-triple combos and Novice ladies who have a fighting spirit and are trying out 3Lz-Lo. Juniors next year will be highly contested. Additionally, Alysa is being set up really well for her Junior Grand Prix debut. Hanna will stay in Junior probably and once she starts to become consistent, could really shake things up. The next wave of ladies are ready to take over.

And I am more than ready for it.

Regarding BOW, I think it only applies when skaters are coming into Nationals as a GPF finalist (medalist even better) and have some serious hardware from the past Fall. If you're a reigning World medalist coupled with that, then even better. However, just getting respectable international PCS like Bell has received (higher than what one would expect for not so clean skates) but not having any international medals from the GP/Worlds and making it to the GPF coming into Nationals, I really don't think they'd choose her over Glenn if Glenn were to beat her.

 

[Karen-W]

If I was on the selection committee and Glenn places ahead (especially by a small margin) of Bell, I'd send them both to 4CCs and tell them that the top finisher between the two gets the 2nd Worlds berth. That will give Glenn the chance to build some international rep and prove that she can be consistent across more than just one competition, and it gives Bell the chance to continue to work on fixing those pesky URs.

 

[DimaToe]

Nationals this year is seeming to be a turning point for the U.S. ladies. We have Intermediate ladies with clean triple-triple combos and Novice ladies who have a fighting spirit and are trying out 3Lz-Lo. Juniors next year will be highly contested. Additionally, Alysa is being set up really well for her Junior Grand Prix debut. Hanna will stay in Junior probably and once she starts to become consistent, could really shake things up. The next wave of ladies are ready to take over.

I hope so. We have a good amount of skaters that have been in limbo for a couple seasons too much. I don’t doubt their hard work, but maybe it would make a difference if there were other skaters that were good enough to make their GP, funding, and bye to nationals no longer a guarantee.