U.S. Ladies [#24]: Starr-Ting Order/Detailed Classification

[Jammers]

To be fair to Bradie and Mariah, Ashley and Gracie weren't competing against Eteri's skaters and a risen Japanese team that includes the likes of Kihira with more to come from juniors. After the 2015-2016 season, Ashley and Gracie weren't as sure things for international medals.[/QUOT

To be fair to Bradie and Mariah, Ashley and Gracie weren't competing against Eteri's skaters and a risen Japanese team that includes the likes of Kihira with more to come from juniors. After the 2015-2016 season, Ashley and Gracie weren't as sure things for international medals.

Ashley and Gracie were going against Eteri skaters going back to 2013 with Yulia and later with the likes of Medvedeva. As a whole the Russian Senior ladies as a team were as strong 3-4 years ago as they are right now.

 

[Frau Muller]

If everyone skates clean, Bradie will win. She already got a 219 last year at nationals with a lower base value. She simply has a larger gap in PCS that Alysa can't make up through her jumps.

Thank you! New perspective. I thought that all of the PCS in the world couldn’t help Bradie. I still hope that they all skate cleanly.

 

[Coco]

Liu has high base value, but how is her ice coverage?

 

[Frau Muller]

Figure skating is not just about "raw capabilities" and total score is not just about the tech elements.

True...but we all know the “fudge factor” in PCS. If PCS were used as intended, all would be well.

 

[Spun Silver]

Yes - remember Ashley's quote about competing against fetuses?

 

[Willin]

@Coco It's comparable to Satoko Miyahara: not great by any means, but could easily be attributed to her short stature.

TBH I don't know how Nationals will shake up. I'm leaving Alysa and Hanna Harrell out of it since I'm uncomfortable saying much about skaters so young.
Of the skaters eligible for Senior Internationals, I think Bradie will beat Mariah for the gold unless Mariah's completely clean, and even then she'd probably need an error from Bradie. Unless either makes a major error I think they're a safe 1-2 for World qualification in any order. The skaters behind them (the like 4CC team) are where the real mystery lies. Amber Glenn, Angela Wang, Starr Andrews, and Courtney Hicks have a good shot - if they don't miss anything. Ting Cui is my favorite for that 3rd spot as it stands right now given the struggles Amber, Angela, and Courtney have had this season. I think there's a few more darkhorses that could potentially make the 4CC team (Megan Wessenberg, Emmy Ma, Ashley Lin), but I think at least one skater that's been missing all season is going to step it up in a big way - I just don't know who.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Satoko Miyahara has excellent ice coverage and speed that belies her height, and she has no extraneous movement or obvious effort to get that speed.

 

[Frida80]

Ashley and Gracie were going against Eteri skaters going back to 2013 with Yulia and later with the likes of Medvedeva. As a whole the Russian Senior ladies as a team were as strong 3-4 years ago as they are right now.

They may have been as going against Eteri ladies, but this is before they began backloading and the GOE and PCS inflation. The scores just aren't comparable. Think about this, Alina won with a score of 82 in the SP and 156 in the FS. The highest either Ashley or Gracie came to this score was 76 and 142. Not to mention the pure domination in junior level. Alena K has already beaten Gracie's high score in the junior Grand Prix. There is no comparison.

 

[VGThuy]

Ashley and Gracie were going against Eteri skaters going back to 2013 with Yulia and later with the likes of Medvedeva. As a whole the Russian Senior ladies as a team were as strong 3-4 years ago as they are right now.

Yeah and Ashley/Gracie mostly placed below them, so not guaranteed international medals. The Eteri skaters now are stronger than Julia Lipnitskaya and there are more of them. Med is losing it but it took a skater of Rika Kihira's TES to beat an ok Alina. There are other Russian ladies coming up, Eteri and non-Eteri that are doing great skates that would have been difficult for Gracie to beat with her competitive nerves and Ashley with her near guaranteed 2 UR calls in the LP (before they were even as harsh as they are now on those). Ashley won't have that PCS advantage either as those ladies have bridged that gap there and are competing with higher BVs. The ladies field as a whole are bringing it a lot more consistently and with higher TES than back in 2011-2016 (remember how many triples it took to win 2012 Worlds?). I don't think it does much to put Ashley and Gracie on some pedestal while demeaning the current U.S. ladies when the current ladies with Bradie now are probably doing as well as can be expected and I'm not convinced Gracie or Ashley would be doing much better.

 

[Vagabond]

Yes - remember Ashley's quote about competing against fetuses?

This one?

 

[Spun Silver]

This one?

I can't find the quote, but it may have been from around the time of this interview, where she calls them babies.
https://www.ocregister.com/2014/10/30/wagner-not-ready-to-hang-up-her-skates/

 

[concorde]

Heaven forbid any skater should neglect social media and concentrate on training, studying, and getting out for some fresh air instead!

In normal cases I would agree with your comment.
But this is Starr whose "Whip my Hair" video created a hype about her (54k views). That video did not just magically get placed there; I am pretty sure her momma (but maybe it was another family member) put if out to gain attention. Starr may not be media savvy but her family member certainly is.

 

[Vagabond]

From Ecclesiastes 3:

1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:​

​

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;​

​

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;​

​

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;​

​

5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;​

​

6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;​

​

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;​

​

8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.​

This appears to be a time for Starr Andrews to keep silence. It's her business, not ours. Deal with it!

 

[VGThuy]

Other than that video when she was like a novice with an entertaining program and I don't know if they knew yet how far she was going to go into competitive skating, and the attention about her singing her own version of a Whitney Houston song for her Olympic season LP for Nationals, I don't think Andrews has been attention seeking or anything. Most of the press she has is pretty run-of-the-mill for a skater who gets some attention for one reason or another. There are tons of videos parents and others upload on YouTube that feature their kids, including skating programs.

 

[Willin]

@concorde But maybe after all that attention her family realized that maybe - just maybe - putting a video out there can make your life awful no matter how innocent it is? And that a teenager may not want everything she does on social media?

Yeah, that video went up - almost 10 years ago - but who knows why. Based on the channel they seem like one of those families that just likes to document their kids' competitions, no different from my parents filming every dance recital, ice show, and competition. Only now instead of taking the video tape to relatives' houses or showing them at holidays you can easily share them on YT for family to see. Even now the channel is heavily curated with a record of each season's programs and videos I could see a skater approving for posting.

To me nothing she does seems attention-seeking and her family doesn't seem attention-seeking. I had no idea I was sitting near them at Nationals until I saw their companion badges - they drew no attention to themselves and didn't talk about her.

 

[Frida80]

In normal cases I would agree with your comment.
But this is Starr whose "Whip my Hair" video created a hype about her (54k views). That video did not just magically get placed there; I am pretty sure her momma (but maybe it was another family member) put if out to gain attention. Starr may not be media savvy but her family member certainly is.

That video was from eight years ago and was posted along with a lot of other family videos of her and her sister doing their respective sports. I'm sure like other viral videos, her mother posted it, shared it with friends and they loved it so much that they shared it again. It was never intended to go viral. What's more, it's clear that Starr is focused solely on improving as an athlete not being a social media star. I think it's very unfair to use that video against her.

Like most skaters, Starr has shucked off social media to focus on nationals. No one is posting anything right now. I'm dying to here something from Ting or Hanna. It's just the slow time. They start posting again during the summer.

 

[Frida80]

@concorde But maybe after all that attention her family realized that maybe - just maybe - putting a video out there can make your life awful no matter how innocent it is? And that a teenager may not want everything she does on social media?

Yeah, that video went up - almost 10 years ago - but who knows why. Based on the channel they seem like one of those families that just likes to document their kids' competitions, no different from my parents filming every dance recital, ice show, and competition. Only now instead of taking the video tape to relatives' houses or showing them at holidays you can easily share them on YT for family to see. Even now the channel is heavily curated with a record of each season's programs and videos I could see a skater approving for posting.

To me nothing she does seems attention-seeking and her family doesn't seem attention-seeking. I had no idea I was sitting near them at Nationals until I saw their companion badges - they drew no attention to themselves and didn't talk about her.

That sounds like every skating parent I sit next too. They just love watching the entire competition. It isn't until their kids are done that they may even mention it. And that's if your very lucky. Most skating parents I met don't like to brag at all.

 

[overedge]

I don't think Andrews has been attention seeking or anything.

More like, the attention comes to her. Such as via the USFS hype machine:
https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/...ws-from-viral-fame-to-national-contender.aspx

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

@Coco It's comparable to Satoko Miyahara: not great by any means, but could easily be attributed to her short stature.

TBH I don't know how Nationals will shake up. I'm leaving Alysa and Hanna Harrell out of it since I'm uncomfortable saying much about skaters so young.
Of the skaters eligible for Senior Internationals, I think Bradie will beat Mariah for the gold unless Mariah's completely clean, and even then she'd probably need an error from Bradie. Unless either makes a major error I think they're a safe 1-2 for World qualification in any order. The skaters behind them (the like 4CC team) are where the real mystery lies. Amber Glenn, Angela Wang, Starr Andrews, and Courtney Hicks have a good shot - if they don't miss anything. Ting Cui is my favorite for that 3rd spot as it stands right now given the struggles Amber, Angela, and Courtney have had this season. I think there's a few more darkhorses that could potentially make the 4CC team (Megan Wessenberg, Emmy Ma, Ashley Lin), but I think at least one skater that's been missing all season is going to step it up in a big way - I just don't know who.

You've detailed why the ladies' event is both exciting and nerve-wracking. I know I'll be watching, though!

 

[WillyElliot]

Liu has high base value, but how is her ice coverage?

From what I've read and seen on video, her ice coverage is rather weak. I'm disappointed she changed her SP to Funny Girl which to me highlights her childishness. It seemed very Toddlers and Tiaras to me, unfortunately.

 

[Bonjour Sherry]

deleted post

 

[Dobre]

Liu has high base value, but how is her ice coverage?

It's fine. What do you want us to say? She fit right in with the juniors last year. Except that she had stronger performance skills and faster spins. Ting could have challenged her except for the short. Alysa's going to look like a junior skating at Senior Nationals as far as speed goes. I mean, you watch the dance teams at Nationals and speed goes up, up, up as they grow. It's very apparent. So I'm sure Alysa's speed is not what it will be in three years when she can compete as an international senior. But for her age, her speed is fine. I've read a few comments here from people who have never seen Ting & Alysa skate live saying that Ting is faster. I've been trying to remember if I had that impression the last two years at Nationals, and I can't say that I have. Ting jumps very high and bombs into that big triple triple combo in her short. But overall, I simply haven't noticed a significant difference in speed among Hanna, Alysa, Ting, and Pooja. Speed is not what stands out to me about any of them.

I haven't seen any of them compete this season.

Bradie's speed really improved last season. She will be significantly faster than Alysa. And faster than Mariah. Mariah's speed doesn't stand out to me. I'm not sure how it will compare to the girls moving up out of juniors. We'll have to see what impressions the audience members at Nationals this season have after they watch the competition.

(It's funny. Mom & I were just talking about how little Belbin & Agosto looked when we first saw them at Senior Worlds in 2001. There was no way they were going to fill a rink like all the mature teams there. But B&A did place higher there than the crowd members sitting behind me anticipated. Sometimes we overestimate what young athletes can do. Sometimes we underestimate them. We'll just have to see).

 

[SmallFairy]

I don't find it one itty bitty strange that people aren't doing social media right now. They are focusing on what's to come. There's nothing more to it. Starr never posted a lot in the first place, so let it go. Nothing happened. Mariah is posting on IG, but only about her bunny (and Ponsart with the bunny, Nathan with the bunny etc. She's my fave!!!)
#crazybunnylady

 

[DimaToe]

From what I've read and seen on video, her ice coverage is rather weak. I'm disappointed she changed her SP to Funny Girl which to me highlights her childishness. It seemed very Toddlers and Tiaras to me, unfortunately.

As Wagner would say... but she’s a sonogram...killing two birds with one stone. She said SONOGRAM, not fetuses, people please get your skating history in check

 

[sjs5572]

From what I've read and seen on video, her ice coverage is rather weak. I'm disappointed she changed her SP to Funny Girl which to me highlights her childishness. It seemed very Toddlers and Tiaras to me, unfortunately.

I think it's much improved since Rohene Ward enhanced the choreography.

 

[sjs5572]

Last year Bradie's PCS was 32 in the SP 69 in the FS. Alysa's PCS was 29 and 60. I'm expecting a higher PCS from Bradie this year on account of her small bump internationally to 34 and 72. It mostly nullifies gap from the triple axels.

In sp, both should score about 75 clean. In the lp, Bradie can hit 148 and Alysa 143. However, defending a title can be intense; we will see if Bradie can withstand the pressure.

 

[dee342]

I think it's much improved since Rohene Ward enhanced the choreography.

She changed from Don't Rain on my Parade? I didn’t know that. I like that program and was looking forward to seeing it at Nationals.

 

[olympic]

Maybe not but that just says that the depth in US Ladies is much worse then 4-5 years ago. Ashley and Gracie were in the running for medals at just about every competition including Worlds. The same can't be said of Bradie or Mariah.

I would argue that the competition is increasing, not that US ladies are much worse: Bradie w/ a clean SP and LP would be north of 210 points and Mariah would get somewhere around 205 for skating clean. That is about where Ashley and Gracie scored. 'Worse' is a relative term: Russia and especially Japan ladies are increasing their scores but our top ladies are holding even w/ Ashley and Gracie's best scores. My hope is that Bradie continues down the correct path. She seems to know that PCS is important and she is trying hard.

And as stated by others, 2015 Worlds for example was a lot less competitive than now, so that is not a good comparison. Even then, Gracie and Ashley botched the SP and took themselves out of the running.

 

[sjs5572]

She changed from Dont Rain on my Parade? I didn’t know that. I like that program and was looking forward to seeing it at Nationals.

No, I was referring to Don't Rain on My Parade.

 

[Dobre]

I adore Don't Rain on My Parade. I've loved it for skating ever since one of the Canadian senior ladies used it at SC a few years ago. I said immediately that someone should poach it. I loved it when Young You used it last year. And I love it on Alysa. It brings out her strength of personality.