I agree she’s improving. But her improvement has been really slow for someone with a top tier coach for two years. I blame Raf. Her jumps should be consistently rotated. It’s much easier to fix a 12 yo technique than some one in their 20s.
U.S. Ladies [#22]: No More Carrots!
- Thread starter Vagabond
- Start date
- Status
I agree she’s improving. But her improvement has been really slow for someone with a top tier coach for two years. I blame Raf. Her jumps should be consistently rotated. It’s much easier to fix a 12 yo technique than some one in their 20s.
dinakt
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 6,936
Yes, I'm very picky about my R&Js. Sasha's and Anissina & Peizarat's seem quite wondrous enough to satisfy me for a lifetime. But I did think Marin Honda's performance at Junior Worlds was a worthy & beautiful performance.
Sylvia
Flight #5342: I Will Remember You
- Messages
- 84,278
Re-posting here from Wagner's fan/cheer thread:
Since Mirai and Ashley were both top 5 at 2018 Nationals, they each have an automatic bye to 2019 Nationals if either wants to compete in Detroit. However, they still would have to register for U.S. qualifying season by the deadline of Sept. 1st in order to receive their respective byes to Nationals.
ETA:
Since Mirai and Ashley were both top 5 at 2018 Nationals, they each have an automatic bye to 2019 Nationals if either wants to compete in Detroit. However, they still would have to register for U.S. qualifying season by the deadline of Sept. 1st in order to receive their respective byes to Nationals.
Last edited:
I feel like we're at the end of an era. Maybe after a long fall of not competing, she'll feel like giving it a go again.
Seems like Karen Chen and Hannah Miller are currently training with Alex Ouriashev, as a "camp" or permanently needs to be seen. It definitely answers the question if Chen is working on her technical issues because what else would Ouriashev work with her on. I hope he can help both of them get fully rotated and consistent jumps.
Source on twitter: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dgxr5m6VQAA-nnu.jpg
Source on twitter: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dgxr5m6VQAA-nnu.jpg
Carolla5501
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 7,469
For some reason I feel like it's going to be tough for Karen to claw back with the international judges. I think Bradie can move up without too much trouble. She's been consistent and you could see presentation improvement last season just from the exposure to the other top tier skaters.
as for the rest of the US ladies... who knows.
as for the rest of the US ladies... who knows.
aliona22
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 322
Have you seen Gubanova's R&J FS from the 2016-17 season? After Cohen, that is the standard for me... she has an amazing emotional connection to the music. https://youtu.be/dD7NrXztHZA
AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)
Get it Amber 🏳️🌈
- Messages
- 17,127
Well, Gracie Gold has NOT retired... this shall be interesting at Rostelecom Cup!!!!!!
Well, no one really believed Kaetlyn Osmond could strike back after her 15-16 season were she didn't even make the world team. However, next season she won the silver medal at worlds. If Chen does work on her technical issues and proves her consistency throughout the challenger and grand prix series she might get a chance. Even with a much more flawed program at the olympics she got a higher PCS than Tennell.
kwanatic
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 2,759
When Karen is at her best she's amazing. If Alex fixes her jumps and she's able to skate cleanly, I feel like she'd eclipse Bradie rather easily. I agree with @lola10; Karen is very much like Kaetlyn in that she's an "if only" skater: "If only she landed her jumps..." "If only she didn't lose focus..." All of the pieces are there for greatness but it just never comes together. BUT, as Kaetlyn proved, it can be done.
Bradie is definitely in a position to move up, but I'm not convinced she's capable of landing on the podium in a stacked field. The jumps are there and that's a major part of it; but the Russians have girls who can nail 7 triple programs in their sleep and Japan isn't far behind in that regard. Bradie stands out a lot in the US b/c so few people can nail a clean 7 triple program but internationally, what makes Bradie stand out? As of now, nothing. She reminds me of Polina Edmunds, Rachael Flatt, and Maria Sotskova: talented but just not that exciting to watch next to the others. That could change though.
I'm disappointed to hear she's using R&J this year. It takes a special kind of presence to pull off this music and make it captivating. I don't know if Bradie has the performance chops for it. Then again, maybe this will be the program that turns the page for her and she'll end up surprising everyone. Still, in order for her to break into the PCS tier she needs to be in to medal against the Russians and Japanese, Bradie has a lot of work to do.
Stormy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,845
A little surprised at Gracie getting a GP. Is this so she doesn't have to go through the qualifying system to get back to Nationals?
AxelAnnie
Like a small boat on the ocean...
- Messages
- 14,463
I watched one of Sasha's old performances...........it was just awe inspiring.
I wonder what Bradie was thinking when she picked this piece.
Audrey Shin did a pretty respectable job with it in the SoCal comp.
AxelAnnie
Like a small boat on the ocean...
- Messages
- 14,463
I hope she declines it.
aftershocks
Banned Member
- Messages
- 17,317
Karen and Kaetlyn though are two different people, from different countries, and they have different career trajectories. Canadian fans have always been forgiving of Kaetlyn and very quick to support and defend her rather than to criticize and go on the attack after the slightest competitive failure. And Kaetlyn had quite a few less than stellar performances during her first season back after her surgery. Even during the season Kaetlyn won the silver at Worlds, she did not come out with great confidence and aggressive attack. She has had a problem with nerves for awhile, but her talent has always been immense, and she came into her own that season artistically. Still, her competitive history has never been a walk in the park. U.S. ladies, including Karen Chen, do not receive that same kind of benevolent support and treatment with kid gloves after not living up to expectations.
As you indicate, anything is possible and anything can happen. I don't see that it's such a huge stretch to believe that Bradie could build a lot more confidence this season, and improve her PCS. If it's possible for Karen to pull things together and build more confidence and consistency, it's possible for Bradie to continue developing artistically and start building rep with the judges. The new season will be an open book. The first chapter is waiting to be written.
Last edited:
Sylvia
Flight #5342: I Will Remember You
- Messages
- 84,278
Listing out all the U.S. ladies' Grand Prix initial assignments that were published today (11 spots total):
Bradie Tennell (2): Skate America (#1), France (#6)
Mariah Bell (2): Skate Canada (#2), Japan (#4)
Karen Chen (2): Finland (#3), Russia (#5)
Starr Andrews (1): Skate America - her GP debut
Angela Wang (1): Japan - her only previous GP was 3 years ago in Bordeaux FRA (SP only; FS was cancelled)
Courtney Hciks (1): Japan
Gracie Gold (1): Russia
Skate America: 1 TBD
Bradie Tennell (2): Skate America (#1), France (#6)
Mariah Bell (2): Skate Canada (#2), Japan (#4)
Karen Chen (2): Finland (#3), Russia (#5)
Starr Andrews (1): Skate America - her GP debut
Angela Wang (1): Japan - her only previous GP was 3 years ago in Bordeaux FRA (SP only; FS was cancelled)
Courtney Hciks (1): Japan
Gracie Gold (1): Russia
Skate America: 1 TBD
VGThuy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 41,299
She looks like Juliet and I appreciate all the moves she does out of her jumps to stay in character. It's clear she feels the music and cares about portraying the character. That second half, even with all the emotion she does after the jumps, took me out of the performance though. I don't know the choreography is memorable.
Sylvia
Flight #5342: I Will Remember You
- Messages
- 84,278
altai_rose
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,290
Gubanova is the gold standard R&J for me in recent years.
Next year, Kostornaya is doing R&J in juniors. It's not going to be a flattering comparison in Tennell's favor, IMO.
Next year, Kostornaya is doing R&J in juniors. It's not going to be a flattering comparison in Tennell's favor, IMO.
AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)
Get it Amber 🏳️🌈
- Messages
- 17,127
So can we assume Tyler Pierce is kaput? A shame, I thought there was potential there..
And Im lazy tonight... where was Amber Glenn on the list for perhaps of getting a GP assignment of which she has none......
Id kinda rather see Amber more than Angela or Courtney if I had the choice. Her Send In The Clowns really was glorious. I wish she would abort all Tano's and Rippons (since she has no consistency with them). Courtney hasn't fixed her franticness and Angela never really reached out to the audience enough for my tastes.
And Im lazy tonight... where was Amber Glenn on the list for perhaps of getting a GP assignment of which she has none......
Id kinda rather see Amber more than Angela or Courtney if I had the choice. Her Send In The Clowns really was glorious. I wish she would abort all Tano's and Rippons (since she has no consistency with them). Courtney hasn't fixed her franticness and Angela never really reached out to the audience enough for my tastes.
Amber didn’t get considered for a GP because her SB was so low. She scored 150, while both Courtney and Angela scored in the 180s. She has a chance at the TBD spot if she does well his summer.
Carolla5501
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 7,469
I expect his is why US put her out there as wanting a GP so they can waive her through the qualifying system due to the scheduling conflict.
I expect that she may have actually informed them she's coming back. I can't imagine how she got this otherwise.
kwanatic
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 2,759
They are different of course but they are similar in that they both had untapped potential. Kaetlyn managed to fully realize hers over the past two seasons...It remains to be seen if Karen ever will.
Canadian fans had to be forgiving of Kaetlyn...she's one of only two women who have a shot of being competitive. In the US we had the, dare I use the word luxury, of being harsh on Karen simply because there were other skaters who were doing as well if not better than her.
I disagree about Kaetlyn's lack of confidence/attack during the 2016-2017 season. The reason she did so well (despite her weaker FS performances) was due to the epicness of her Edith Pilaf SP and the way she sold it time and time again. I feel like confidence and attack were the two main ingredients in the success of that program and her subsequent finishes with it. This past season is where things clicked into place even more and she was able to deliver the best performances of her life.
My hope is that Karen will one day have that same "click" season and begin skating to her potential. That's my hope anyway...
I agree, anything can happen. Based off of Bradie's performances last season, I'm doubtful of her ability to be a captivating/entertaining/stand-out performer. That's not to say she can't do it. We've seen skaters turn it around and become strong performers and I don't doubt Bradie and her team are aware of what she needs to work on. I'm not confident in their decision to use R&J but like I said, who knows? It may end up being fantastic. We'll just have to wait to see what they come up with...
aftershocks
Banned Member
- Messages
- 17,317
I beg to differ. Canadian fans are always protective and generously forgiving toward their skaters, unlike U.S. fans.
I agree that Canadian ladies have lacked depth and uber talent historically. But still, there's no "had to" about Canadian fans' forgiveness. Aside from the fact of course that Kaetlyn Osmond is so delightfully forgiveable.
I'm basing my comments on Kaetlyn's own discussion of her second season comeback from injury. She's always had trouble with nerves. And it took the first season comeback struggles for her to regain physical confidence. So yes, she was better during 2016-17, and she was also getting help from a sports psychologist. She had a significant breakthrough at Worlds 2017 in the fp. She was clearly nervous about making a mistake. Despite a bobble and doubling out on a triple, she ultimately came through unscathed and fell to the ice in tears of relief at the end of her program.
At the start of 2017-2018, Kaetlyn was in a good position to really persevere in some comps over Zagitova, but at that point, Kaetlyn definitely lacked aggressive attack. Her aggressive attack did not actually kick in significantly until 2018 Olympics singles competition, and Worlds. At Canadian Nationals for both of the past two seasons, Gabby Daleman skated better than Kaetlyn.
Exactly, unfortunately. So just as I indicated earlier, they are two totally different skaters from different countries with different personalities, varying strengths & weaknesses, and different career trajectories.
Last edited:
mag
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 12,198
I think it will take more than “clicking.” Unlike Kaetlyn, Karen has technical issues with her jumps which keep her from being consistent and leave her open to under rotation calls. Yes, I know, Kaetlyn has had issues with the lutz edge, but Karen’s problems are much more serious and affect all her jumps. She rotates very slowly, relatively speaking. I would have to go back and look again, but I think she also waits until she is at the apex of the jump to start the rotation (sort of like Jason Brown.) That technique makes for fabulous looking doubles, but hinders the skater’s ability to cleanly finish the rotation of triples and quads in the air.
It will be interesting to see if the change in training location helps Karen or not.
As for Bradie, I agree with your assessment. I find it hard to imagine her suddenly becoming a captivating or artistic skater, although stranger things have happened and I do hope she is able to prove me wrong.
aftershocks
Banned Member
- Messages
- 17,317
^^ ITA with most of your comments @mag, except I'm going to give Bradie a pass. She's definitely not as boring on the ice as Russia's Z/E! 
We always got to keep in mind subjective personal preference too. Still, IMO Bradie ain't as weak as some seem to dismiss her as being presentation-wise.
Skate Canada would froth at the mouth if they had Bradie as their number 3.
For that matter, they'd be fangirling Angela Wang, Starr Andrews, Mariah Bell, Amber Glenn, and Courtney Hicks too.
We always got to keep in mind subjective personal preference too. Still, IMO Bradie ain't as weak as some seem to dismiss her as being presentation-wise.Skate Canada would froth at the mouth if they had Bradie as their number 3.
For that matter, they'd be fangirling Angela Wang, Starr Andrews, Mariah Bell, Amber Glenn, and Courtney Hicks too.
Last edited:
berthesghost
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 6,201
omg that’s so depressing! Imagine, USA’s top lady only good enough to be #3 in Canada! How the mighty have fallenSkate Canada would froth at the mouth if they had Bradie as their number 3.
Last edited:
- Status
Users who are viewing this thread
Similar threads
