U.S. Ladies [#22]: No More Carrots!

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Vagabond

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BOWs are so boring. :yawn: Cinderella has been to the ball. :glamor:

It's time for our U.S. Ladies to rotate their jumps and go mano Amano. :kickass:

No more carrots! :soapbox:
 

Sylvia

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Bringing over @her grace's post from the previous thread:
Guaranteed GP spots for next season based on current rules:
-two spots based on finishing in the top 12 at world championships: Tennell (seeded), Nagasu, Bell
-one spot based on being in the top 24 of the SB list: only Tennell and she's already guaranteed two
-one spot based on being in the top 24 of the world standing lists: too early to say because the 2015-2016 data will be purged and the 2016-2017 data will be reduced in value. As of today (with incomplete data), these are the Americans who are in the top 24 of the current world standings: Nagasu (already guaranteed 2), Chen, Wagner, & Bell (already guaranteed 2).
-other Americans in the top 75 of the Season Best list and eligible for selection: Wang (39), Hicks (41), Cui (43), Andrews (52), Ma (53), Zhang (57), Lin (68), Edmunds (75)
With 3 senior international competitions left in the season, these are @kwanfan1818's projections for the top 4 U.S. ladies in the top 30 after the ISU World Standings are updated:
For GP, the 2015-16 points will be dropped, and the 2016-17 points will be factored by 70%.
Bold means ... not on the Top 24 SB list and didn't place Top 12 at Worlds:
...
12-Karen CHEN (USA): 2274 (SB 35)
13-Mirai NAGASU (USA): 2066​
14-Mariah BELL (USA): 1943​
...
16-Bradie TENNELL (USA): 1858​
Wagner will have 1216 WS points and will be below the top 30.
 
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Tinami Amori

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berthesghost

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I know Chris Crocker wants us to “just leave Bradie alone!” but the fact that FSU is fixated on fixing her hair is testament to how well she did this season. Having survived the Mirai/Alyssa/Ashley/Karen years I’m not ready to let go of the possibility she might go back to 6th or 9th, but ya gotta be positive and hope for the best.
 

Frau Muller

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RockTheTassel

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If Bradie never changes a thing, skates a dozen more princess programs, and manages to be successful, then I'll be happy for her because she seems like a nice, deserving girl who works hard. But I'll still talk about how twee I find her image because that's something that matters to me as a skating fan. Maybe it's a bit petty, but I'd imagine that packaging is at least somewhat important to most fans of the sport.
 

LarrySK8

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US ladies have become known for going to the Farmers' Market for carrots. Prior to the elimination of Compulsory Figures we rarely saw so many carrots - now common. Is there are link? Would knowing Compulsory Figures correct UR problems?

I say yes. Mirai has UR issues because of the position of her free leg while wrapped for rotating, which would be ingrained to be correct via figures. She swings that leg around to land her jumps, which causes rotation on the landings, even when fully rotated. She simply has bad technique in the leg position - fixed with attention to figures.
 

berthesghost

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Skaters don’t spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on packaging because judges and fans are somewhat interested in it. Their entire career hangs on it.
 

mag

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Skaters don’t spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on packaging because judges and fans are somewhat interested in it. Their entire career hangs on it.
Packaging is like music selection, it won’t win it for you but it can lose it for you. You have to have the technical goods and the competitive nerve, but bad packaging can erode just enough points in a close race to sink you.
 

DimaToe

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Agreed with what had been said, an immediate example is Tinkerbell, bad packaging cost her a national title and higher placements at world championships. She didn’t > any more than most of her domestic competitors, but next to Wagner and Gold her programs did come across as second rate.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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So Bradie’s solid jumps & technique are what counts. Not cutting her hair and packaging. Cinderella wins! Stay as you are, Bradie!
I agree! And at least Bradie skated to stuff that 10 million other ladies weren't skating to, even if it was Disney.

The SP music was ELEGANZA!!!!!!!!!!

So in some way she was packaged nicely. She wasn't a carbon copy of other skaters where you just rotate your music to the skater standing on your left.
 

Weve3

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Bradie was a pretty Cinderella, but one crucial thing that everyone is forgetting, Gus Gus was the scene-stealer, the real star of the show! He deserves his moment in the spotlight! :rockstar:
 

AxelAnnie

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Didn't Bradie have to take some time off for injury? Presentation is easier to add than to try to fix jumps. IMO. I don't think she will ever be an Ashley performer, but she has lots of room to grow.
 

RockTheTassel

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Skaters don’t spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on packaging because judges and fans are somewhat interested in it. Their entire career hangs on it.
Sorry, I didn't mean that skaters have any obligation to me or to other fans. It was more about the fact that some on FSU tend to label anyone who's critical of packaging as mean-spirited and think appearance has no effect. Sorry, but it does, and it's not out of line to talk about it on FSU.

I don't know how much weight packaging carries. I mean, Bradie was 6th in the world with Cinderella. Polina Edmunds won 4CC with her notorious Peter Pan ensemble. Alina won big with her tutus. So it isn't everything, but it still counts.
 
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In the last US Ladies thread [21] WillyElliot wrote,

She [Tennell] could have done a very elegant program to this music like Angela Nikodinov.
Nikodinov's program was to the Prokofiev score, and, IMO, was one of the most underrated of US Ladies' programs. People remember Peter Oppegard's choreography to "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" for Stiegler/Zimmerman -- and rightly so -- but he also did that great program for Nikodinov the same year. (And I think she should have been third over Bobek and been sent to Worlds, but that was never going to happen.)
 

eurodance2001

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In the last US Ladies thread [21] WillyElliot wrote,


Nikodinov's program was to the Prokofiev score, and, IMO, was one of the most underrated of US Ladies' programs. People remember Peter Oppegard's choreography to "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" for Stiegler/Zimmerman -- and rightly so -- but he also did that great program for Nikodinov the same year. (And I think she should have been third over Bobek and been sent to Worlds, but that was never going to happen.)
Nikodinov in 1997 for her LP should've received much higher presentation scores than what she did; they were lower than her already held down technical merit scores as the judges were clearly manipulating it to place Bobek third and on the World team. With Kwan's disaster and Lipinski's still developing presentation, Angela should've been second in the free here..

1. Lipinski: 1.0, 1.0 2.0
2. Nikodinov: 2.5, 2.0 4.5
3. Kwan: .5, 4.0 4.5
4. Bobek: 3.5, 3.0 6.5 (Yes, I had Bobek 7th here behind Karen Kwan even though she was placed 6th).

But this wasn't going to happen..

Anyway, Bradie has a great foundation to progress on but she really does need to up the ante with packaging and music selection..
 
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SkateFanBerlin

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I know Chris Crocker wants us to “just leave Bradie alone!” but the fact that FSU is fixated on fixing her hair is testament to how well she did this season. Having survived the Mirai/Alyssa/Ashley/Karen years I’m not ready to let go of the possibility she might go back to 6th or 9th, but ya gotta be positive and hope for the best.
I wish Bradie the best, but did her jumps seem small to anyone else? Depending on fast rotation to complete. Bigger jumps score better. Plus, if she fills out a bit small jumps could be a detriment.
 

sk9tingfan

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I wish Bradie the best, but did her jumps seem small to anyone else? Depending on fast rotation to complete. Bigger jumps score better. Plus, if she fills out a bit small jumps could be a detriment.
Not sure if her jumps are small but more lateral as opposed to jumping high. My guess is that may have something to do with her height and maintaining her center of gravity; that also may preclude her from adding a 'Tano" or Rippon arms. IMO, she needs a daily arms class as well as better choreography. Also, the degree to which she can become more musical and expressive is an issue
 

UGG

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Why are people offended bc Bradie needs a make over/ reinvention? Look at what Ashley did in 2012. It wasn’t a bad thing, it was necessary to get her to the next level. Michelle’s reinvention won her the world championships. She wasn’t beating Chen with a pony tail and puffy sleeves.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Nikodinov in 1997 for her LP should've received much higher presentation scores than what she did; they were lower than her already held down technical merit scores as the judges were clearly manipulating it to place Bobek third and on the World team. With Kwan's disaster and Lipinski's still developing presentation, Angela should've been second in the free here..

1. Lipinski: 1.0, 1.0 2.0
2. Nikodinov: 2.5, 2.0 4.5
3. Kwan: .5, 4.0 4.5
4. Bobek: 3.5, 3.0 6.5 (Yes, I had Bobek 7th here behind Karen Kwan even though she was placed 6th).

But this wasn't going to happen..

Anyway, Bradie has a great foundation to progress on but she really does need to up the ante with packaging and music selection..
HI @eurodance2001

THANK you for this.

Id like to start a go fund me page for Nikodinov so we can reverse everything and get her on the team!

:D
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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I think the reason why some are reacting to posts about Bradie needing a makeover is that a lot of the posts are doing it in the most superficial way. It wasn't just getting rid of the ponytail and puffy sleeves that helped propel Kwan to that successful season. She skated faster, had a bit more power, worked on her spiral position and depth of edge and length, worked on her skating skills, Lori gave her choreography that showed that Kwan really wasn't afraid to hold an edge and really hold it for dramatic effect, her jumps looked more secure, her spin positions were better, her spins were more centered and she introduced the Y-spin, etc. It was everything but it wasn't Kwan becoming a totally different skater. A lot of what made her more mature was speeding up the process in which Kwan's skating had already been developing. And it was a style in which totally fit Kwan and her style of musical interpretation that it actually was organic.
 

Sylvia

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wickedwitch

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Why are people offended bc Bradie needs a make over/ reinvention?
Because frankly some of it has fairly nasty undertones, along the lines of "if she changes everything about her skating, she might be tolerable." It's possible to hope Bradie makes changes in the offseason without being completely dismissive of what she's accomplished.
 
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