U.S. Ladies [#22]: No More Carrots!

[Vagabond]

If Ashley competes it'd be a farewell season. I believe she'll get a GP or 2 (someone who knows how that works correct me if I'm wrong) and then have her farewell performances at nationals.

Ashley Wagner will be eligible to compete at Grand Prix events if the USFSA chooses to submit her name for consideration but did not finish high enough in the World Standings or on the Season's Best list to be assured of a berth.

I think the USFSA will include her name on the list of skaters for consideration, but I very much doubt that it will lobby on her behalf with the other host federations. Still, there are not very many other U.S. skaters who could get an invitation before she does, so I suspect that she will get at least one, and probably when the original invitations are extended.

 

[worldsnice12]

I would also love if Ashley and Mirai headed for another season. It does not mean that they will be gifted any ticket to Worlds (and rightfully so) but I think they both have more to give. I am sure Ashley was extremely disappointed by not making the Olympics (no matter how much I appreciate Karen's talent and scoring potential, I thought Ashley skated better then her at Nationals) . Perhaps, this setback made Ashley really force to dig in deep and analyse her love for this sport and her motivations. She is a fine performer and if her body stands up, why not find some new material she can relate to and just do it! There were too much of hesitations between the top Americans heading into the Olympic season (Ashley, Karen&Bell) and finally it paid better of for Bradie and Mirai which just stuck to their plan (read programs..) all season.

So yes, I hope Ashley stays one more season and same for Mirai. In Mirais case it is simply because she seems to become better with age! It is not only the buzz around her 3A but more that her fitness level is really on another level comparing to previous season and there is a lot of room to improve artistically.
I dont believe in any strain between her and Ashley. On the contrary, they seem to get on well judging from Instagram posts and after all, they can relate to having their own fair share of disappointments.
As much as I love to see a new breakthrough in American ladies figure skating, I have a soft spot for Ashley and Mirai (and of course for Gracie should she consider a comeback)..

 

[aftershocks]

I don't think it's petty and insecure for Ashley to be furious about the scores she got at nationals and be upset over missing the team. It was a surprise to many, considering how they skated at that competition and how they skated that whole season.

She carried the last quad and a half for US ladies (not just by herself ofcourse) and always had a role to play in the US keeping 3 spots at Worlds. She was the only World medalist in the quad and the only one to have medalled at the GPs that season. If the US Fed decided they no longer needed her at the last minute, then they deserved the results they got without her and losing that 3rd spot at Worlds.

I definitely felt the US ladies results at the Olympics / Worlds was a huge vindication for her. Bradie skated well for her debut championships but the judges were not ready to shower her with top scores. Mirai nailed the team event ladies free and then just lost it. She totally phoned it in at Worlds too and the judges weren't impressed. Karen of course was predictably a hot mess since Nationals like she had been all season.

If she comes back, it would be because she is hungry and she still loves to compete. But she should be prepared for Racheal Flatt level scores circa 2012.

I agree with you, except for that part about Mirai 'phoning it in at Worlds.' I don't think that's true at all. The judges simply gave Mirai short shrift. It seemed like they were determined to ignore Mirai unless she landed 3-axel, which is not her only talent. Yes, Mirai shyed away from attempting the 3-axel at Worlds, but why punish her for not going for it?

I would love to see Mirai as happy and engaged on the ice as she seems to be on the dance floor. But I think the unfortunate problem for Mirai has been the experiences she's had in skating has had her often skating with a monkey on her back, and feeling the added pressure of always having something to prove.

 

[cbd1235]

Ashley Wagner will be eligible to compete at Grand Prix events if the USFSA chooses to submit her name for consideration but did not finish high enough in the World Standings or on the Season's Best list to be assured of a berth.

I think the USFSA will include her name on the list of skaters for consideration, but I very much doubt that it will lobby on her behalf with the other host federations. Still, there are not very many other U.S. skaters who could get an invitation before she does, so I suspect that she will get at least one, and probably when the original invitations are extended.

Host federations also get some say in who gets invited as far as I know, when it gets lower down the list. And for ticket sales, every single one of them would be wanting AW in their event. She's a pretty easy sell, even if USFS wasn't doing her a single favour.

 

[Marco]

It's clear the USFSA is done with her. If Ashley competes it'd be a farewell season. I believe she'll get a GP or 2 (someone who knows how that works correct me if I'm wrong) and then have her farewell performances at nationals. With only two spots to Worlds next year you know she ain't gettin' one of those. Still, given everything Ashley has done for US skating over the past 6 or 7 years, I think she deserves a nice send off.

Well if she were to come back only to stop at Nationals again, I don't think she will. What's the point.

 

[VGThuy]

Which skaters making their senior debuts next season are we most excited about, if any?

 

[Coco]

Ashley Wagner!

LOL eta, I think if she does come back it will just be for Nationals and she'll do it so that she can have a different ending. People talk about her motivation but honestly given the concussion troubles that she's had I think some of the issues she's encountered since 2016 have been physical more so than motivation.

 

[Vagabond]

Which skaters making their senior debuts next season are we most excited about, if any?

Ashley Wagner!

I could have sworn that she had already made her senior debut.

 

[kwanatic]

Well if she were to come back only to stop at Nationals again, I don't think she will. What's the point.

To end her career on her own terms.

Unless Ashley magically begins rotating her jumps the writing is on the wall. She's gotten by on other aspects of her skating for a short time, but with the landscape being what it is from a technical standpoint she has to have jumps in order to be competitive. For the past two seasons Ashley's jumps have been declining as well as other technical parts of her skating. She's fallen behind at this point. There is a shot of her possibly finishing top two finish at nationals...assuming the judges would let her. As we saw this year they can and will keep her down if they need to especially if it's to promote the future of US skating, whatever that may be.

I'd prefer to see her skate this upcoming season just for the love of skating. Great programs, lovely performances...if the jumps are non-competitive then so be it. That's where she is at this point in her career. The results shouldn't matter anymore. Soak up the love and attention for one more season and then bow out. Rachael Flatt's final performance at nationals was great. No it wasn't a technically strong program and she didn't place, but she had her final moment in that spotlight. I think Ashley deserves that.

Now, if by chance missing the team has lit a fire and she wants to continue to compete with the intention of making it to Worlds and medaling, I say more power to her. I don't see it happening but oddly enough I don't envision quite a few things that end up coming to pass so there's always a possibility.

 

[Yazmeen]

To end her career on her own terms.

Unless Ashley magically begins rotating her jumps the writing is on the wall. She's gotten by on other aspects of her skating for a short time, but with the landscape being what it is from a technical standpoint she has to have jumps in order to be competitive. For the past two seasons Ashley's jumps have been declining as well as other technical parts of her skating. She's fallen behind at this point. There is a shot of her possibly finishing top two finish at nationals...assuming the judges would let her. As we saw this year they can and will keep her down if they need to especially if it's to promote the future of US skating, whatever that may be.

I'd prefer to see her skate this upcoming season just for the love of skating. Great programs, lovely performances...if the jumps are non-competitive then so be it. That's where she is at this point in her career. The results shouldn't matter anymore. Soak up the love and attention for one more season and then bow out. Rachael Flatt's final performance at nationals was great. No it wasn't a technically strong program and she didn't place, but she had her final moment in that spotlight. I think Ashley deserves that.

Now, if by chance missing the team has lit a fire and she wants to continue to compete with the intention of making it to Worlds and medaling, I say more power to her. I don't see it happening but oddly enough I don't envision quite a few things that end up coming to pass so there's always a possibility.

THIS. My guess is she wants a shot to go out on a better note than this year.

 

[Lacey]

Is it naive to ask if Ashley's desire to come back might have something to do with money? If she comes back, is she guaranteed some support from USFS? Would she have to pay it back if she doesn't carry it through or get invited to GPs? Something about her reaction as this season unfolded (I was a little skeptical of her going to the Os as a paid (?) "FAN"). Makes me think she didn't work hard enough on planning her life after skating and think she needs to make exposure and contacts to get some kind of earned wages going in a continuous manner. A do-over retirement. Love Ashley, but think we are all beyond that. I wonder if her old contracts are in place? I doubt if any of them can be brought back. The bottom line is Mirai is bigger than Ashley now, others are right behind Mirai and who knows if any youngins will rise. Ashley has fallen, literally. Great skating, great personality, but I'm afraid it's done. Perhaps she will go to college, get a great job, find a new career.

 

[Willin]

@Lacey Why were you skeptical of her going as a "paid 'FAN'"? Maybe it's because you don't understand what she was actually doing? She wasn't going as a "paid 'FAN,'" she was going as a brand ambassador for at least one brand. It would make sense that she was being paid to go to the Olympics and promote things. Retired athletes and athletes that don't qualify do it all. the. time. ESPN even hires some coaches/players that don't qualify for the playoffs in Basketball and Football to do commentary and broadcasting during playoff season - and those are people with no intention to retire soon.

And not working hard? Have you seen Ashley? She's been working hard to get jobs and media appearances since not making the team, and was one of the athletes with the most sponsors before and during the Olympics. A commercial featuring her was one of the most aired during the Olympics. On social media she also continues to be an ambassador for US Figure Skating. A new skating/fashion magazine (Revolution) had her name and picture front and center on the first issue of their magazine. She was featured in Vogue. She's currently touring with Stars on Ice.

I wouldn't worry about her ability to get more sponsors: she's the second most followed US Ladies skater who is currently competing - more than Mirai, Bradie, Karen, Starr, Mariah, etc. (Gracie Gold has 100k more followers, be we don't know her competition plans). There are many ladies on instagram with half her follower count that get brand sponsorships solely based on how many people follow them.

I also don't know if you saw it (as it was a paragraph in an article in one publication), but she has gotten herself a great job: as an assistant coach with Rafael. I'd imagine if Raf gets his way in opening a Figure Skating training center, that will be an even better job with more opportunities for her.

 

[Marco]

To end her career on her own terms.

Unless Ashley magically begins rotating her jumps the writing is on the wall. She's gotten by on other aspects of her skating for a short time, but with the landscape being what it is from a technical standpoint she has to have jumps in order to be competitive. For the past two seasons Ashley's jumps have been declining as well as other technical parts of her skating. She's fallen behind at this point. There is a shot of her possibly finishing top two finish at nationals...assuming the judges would let her. As we saw this year they can and will keep her down if they need to especially if it's to promote the future of US skating, whatever that may be.

I'd prefer to see her skate this upcoming season just for the love of skating. Great programs, lovely performances...if the jumps are non-competitive then so be it. That's where she is at this point in her career. The results shouldn't matter anymore. Soak up the love and attention for one more season and then bow out. Rachael Flatt's final performance at nationals was great. No it wasn't a technically strong program and she didn't place, but she had her final moment in that spotlight. I think Ashley deserves that.

Now, if by chance missing the team has lit a fire and she wants to continue to compete with the intention of making it to Worlds and medaling, I say more power to her. I don't see it happening but oddly enough I don't envision quite a few things that end up coming to pass so there's always a possibility.

Well she didn't work enough during this past season to impress, I doubt she will (find the fire to) work hard enough this coming season. The jumps and spins are only going to get worse.

As much as I love her, a small part of me wishes that she doesn't come back because (1) if she does somehow shoot back to top 2 at Nationals and prove that it is doable, she is going to kick herself for not having worked equally hard this past season; (2) she is more likely going to struggle more visibly with the elements and it will be heartbreaking for me as a fan.

 

[berthesghost]

As much as I love her, a small part of me wishes that she doesn't come back because (1) i want her to do what's best for her and seeing as she is already the most popular, recognizable, and sucessful us ladies skater of the past decade, what could one more early quad season get her that she doesn't already have, (2) I'm cynical and think this is more about FSU spinning lengthy fan fiction threads based solely on a tiny comment made as an aside in this case by Rafael who often talks shyte in interviews especially ones to Russian press, (3) despite being the most popular, easily recognizable and sucessful us ladies skater of the past decade she's been a favorite FSU whipping post and I don't look forward to the numerous comments about how she's the worst skater to ever lace up a pair of boots plus has the worst personality going etc starting with the fact that people now buy into the idea that last year was all about her being lazy and entitled like its a fact, again based almost solely on some digs Rafael got in during an interview to Russian press as if every fs article in Russian papers doesn't follow the same format: Russian skater the best, NA skaters lazy and entitled.

 

[Carolla5501]

I see no "positives" to Ashley coming back and a lot of negatives. Not skating well won't help her with endorsements etc.. but it could hurt her. If she had wanted "redemption" she could have done what Max Aaron did, but.... she stayed home from Worlds (probably not endearing her to USFSA)

 

[DimaToe]

Well if things do not go Ashley's way, at least she wouldn't have the thought of "what if" to carry on for the rest of her life. She is still among the best the U.S. has to offer, It is for the best to have as competitive a field as possible and that still includes Wagner. If you don't like her personality, skating or what not that's irrelevant. I hope he comes back and wins title #4 to give the haters ulcers but ill be just as much of a fan if she isn't near the U.S. podium.

 

[DimaToe]

Another note, it's always been obvious how much Wagner loves this sport. This sport isn't a cash cow most of the time, and who are we to say what is best for her, every person lives at their own pace

 

[berthesghost]

I just love that Bradie and Karen may switch coaches, and Mirai is on tv, but all we've been talking about all week is the possibility that Ashley might compete again

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Where is the speculation that Bradie is switching coaches? Wishful thinking? Gossiped as a strong suggestion to Bradie by USFS?

 

[berthesghost]

^^ Where is the speculation that Bradie is switching coaches? Wishful thinking? Gossiped as a strong suggestion to Bradie by USFS?

just gossip

 

[DimaToe]

I just love that Bradie and Karen may switch coaches, and Mirai is on tv, but all we've been talking about all week is the possibility that Ashley might compete again

It doesn’t matter if the Queen is in hiding, the other bees will always find her.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

sweet jesus,please no more Ashley Wagner or Mirai Nagasu next season. It's been a good 10 year run of middling results. I want American ladies dominance again,damnit!

-BB

 

[StasiyaGalustyanLove]

sweet jesus,please no more Ashley Wagner or Mirai Nagasu next season. It's been a good 10 year run of middling results. I want American ladies dominance again,damnit!

-BB

Amen! Wagner all she does is make face's and then say nasty awful things in interviews. She only won events because judges appreciated unique music choices, "unique" not in a good way!

My wife and I both think Marai is "spunky" but I had my fill of spunk during my stint in the navy.

It is time for a new group of ladies that can turn the big tricks.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

My wife and I both think Marai is "spunky" but I had my fill of spunk during my stint in the navy.

Thoroughly disgusting and too much information. Your poor wife.

-BB

 

[bardtoob]

My wife and I both think Marai is "spunky" but I had my fill of spunk during my stint in the navy.

They always say the closeted ones object the most vocally to the out ones.

 

[berthesghost]

I had my fill of spunk during my stint in the navy.

Thouroughly disgusting and too much information! You don’t happen to have made home movies during this period did you? This forum used to have a tape trade section. Your poor wife, I hope this wasn’t right in front of her salad.

 

[kwanatic]

sweet jesus,please no more Ashley Wagner or Mirai Nagasu next season. It's been a good 10 year run of middling results. I want American ladies dominance again,damnit!

-BB

I don't see how Ashley and Mirai retiring is going to lead to American women dominating anything. If anything they'll fall even farther down the ranks. Aside from Bradie, who else is there? Karen is wholly unreliable, Mariah has done nothing...who else is there on the senior level to go to? At least with Ashley and Mirai you're guaranteed a top 10 finish at worlds. Ashley skipped worlds this year and now we're down to 2 spots. Even if you hate her you have to admit she helped to anchor the US women on the world stage. She wasn't always the top American finisher but she held up her end enough to help keep the spots.

It's like when people kept fussing about Michelle Kwan when she was in her last few seasons. "Why doesn't she retire?" Even at her worst she still managed a top 4 finish. The year after she finally did leave the US women went into an epic drought we have yet to recover from. Ashley's silver in 2016 was great but it's the one bright spot for the US women since 2006...

I'm all about new talent coming up and dethroning the "old heads" but until someone actually steps up and does that there's no reason to call for them to retire. We have Bradie...who else is there that can come in next season and be effective internationally?

 

[clairecloutier]

@kwanatic, I could not agree more. As of right now, this moment, there is literally no one waiting in the wings to "replace" Ashley and Mirai. I guess maybe the only possibility, as of this moment, is if Ting Cui goes senior next season. If that happens, maybe she could have an impact, maybe not. Other than that possibility, the situation is exactly as you describe. Bradie is there and reliable. I adore Karen, but until she gains consistency, we can't count on her for high placements. Starr is very new on the senior international stage and not that solid with her technical arsenal. The next tier of girls (Mariah, Angela, Courtney, Amber) have all had some opportunities, but not been able to convert them into good results at major ISU championships. Then there are newer seniors who have talent, but again, have not yet produced great results (Kaitlyn Nguyen, Emmy Ma). When you look at this pool of skaters, there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't welcome Mirai or Ashley continuing. They are still likely to get as good, or better, results than the other available skaters IMO.

 

[GullyGirl84]

@kwanatic, I could not agree more. As of right now, this moment, there is literally no one waiting in the wings to "replace" Ashley and Mirai. I guess maybe the only possibility, as of this moment, is if Ting Cui goes senior next season. If that happens, maybe she could have an impact, maybe not. Other than that possibility, the situation is exactly as you describe. Bradie is there and reliable. I adore Karen, but until she gains consistency, we can't count on her for high placements. Starr is very new on the senior international stage and not that solid with her technical arsenal. The next tier of girls (Mariah, Angela, Courtney, Amber) have all had some opportunities, but not been able to convert them into good results at major ISU championships. Then there are newer senior talents who have talent, but again, have not yet produced great results (Kaitlyn Nguyen, Emmy Ma). When you look at this pool of skaters, there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't welcome Mirai or Ashley continuing. They are still likely to get as good, or better, results than the other available skaters IMO.

Yes, and if someone like Ting goes to nationals and makes a splash, I really don't see the USFS holding her down in favor of Ashley and Mirai. If anything, the powers that be get very eager when new talent comes along that they can promote (Polina getting silver at nationals in 2014, Karen getting bronze at nationals in 2015. Heck, even Bradie winning this year, even though she had a very successful senior season up to that point).

 

[berthesghost]

Oh, I love the parallel universe that is fsu, an alternate reality where Sasha Cohen who in 7 years as a senior never once placed any lower than 5th and in 6 trips to sr nats landed on the podium at every single one, is famously called "inconsistant" but Bradie T who in two years as a senior has been all over the place from 1st to 9th and has sr nat finishes like 6th/9th/1st is continuously called "consistant". I need to return my tv to bestbuy as it seems to be the only one in the world that broadcast her falling at the olys.