U.S. Ladies [#22]: No More Carrots!

[kwanatic]

Oh, I love the parallel universe that is fsu, an alternate reality where Sasha Cohen who in 7 years as a senior never once placed any lower than 5th and in 6 trips to sr nats landed on the podium at every single one, is famously called "inconsistant" but Bradie T who in two years as a senior has been all over the place from 1st to 9th and has sr nat finishes like 6th/9th/1st is continuously called "consistant". I need to return my tv to bestbuy as it seems to be the only one in the world that broadcast her falling at the olys.

No, I definitely saw her fall and under-rotate jumps as well. By no means is Bradie the second coming for the US women. However, even with her all-over-the-place finishes, she has consistently put out respectable performances. Bradie didn't hit my radar until Skate America. Since then she's been far more consistent and reliable that anyone else, that's for sure.

As far as Sasha, she was inconsistent. That doesn't mean she wasn't successful. She was incredibly successful in her career. Could she have been more successful if she managed to stay on her feet? Most definitely. But the name of the game back then was "don't fall," and the game is now called "get the most points." Even with the falls Bradie can get the points...more than any other US woman at this time.

 

[berthesghost]

Eh. One sorta kinda halfway decent season isn’t consistent to me plus being THE US champ to finish the absolute lowest in the 94 year history of the oly games isn’t exactly something to be proud of. But whatevs

Sasha almost always finished on the podium with almost always one fall in the lp and that absolutely worked under both systems where she was 4th under the last 6.0 Olys and 2nd at the first cop Olys. She was also 2nd at the last 6.0 worlds and 2nd at the 1st cop worlds. Forget Orser, Cohen was like ms. Silver medal.

 

[kwanatic]

Eh. One sorta kinda halfway decent season isn’t consistent to me plus being THE US champ to finish the absolute lowest in the 94 year history of the oly games isn’t exactly something to be proud of. But whatevs

Sasha almost always finished on the podium with almost always one fall in the lp and that absolutely worked under both systems where she was 4th under the last 6.0 Olys and 2nd at the first cop Olys. She was also 2nd at the last 6.0 worlds and 2nd at the 1st cop worlds. Forget Orser, Cohen was like ms. Silver medal.

Oh no doubt, Sasha is the Keeper of Being a Bridesmaid.

Even though Bradie finished the lowest in history she was still ahead of the two other US skaters. The US women kinda stink right now, let's just be honest. It's going to take some time for the ranks to build up, if they ever build back up. For now, Bradie is the best we've got.

 

[Dobre]

For now, Bradie is the best we've got.

I'll disagree. But she is more consistent than the best we've got.

 

[StitchMonkey]

There is a difference between being a consistent competitor and having consistent finishes/final placements.

Regardless of how Bradie placed, she really did have a very consistent record this season. Likewise as lovely as Sasha's record is in terms of finishes... she rarely had a competition with two clean programs.

Different types of consistency.

 

[VGThuy]

Well, standards have changed since 2005-2006, haven't they?

 

[Frida80]

Well, standards have changed since 2005-2006, haven't they?

2018 Olympics featured the deepest ladies field in history. It was the largest competition Bradie has ever competed in. For the previous two seasons, Bradie has suffered from a back injury and couldn't even skate a full season. I still think of her as a newbie getting her footing.

 

[Marco]

I have been rewatching a lot of Sasha youtube videos lately. Sasha might almost always have had at least one mistake or slip up here and there, the skating itself is gorgous to watch. Perhaps Ashley is the IJS version of that. Not the stretch or the balletic positions, but just totally lovely to watch despite almost always not being clean. Alas competition at the first half of 2000s is quite different to the past 10 years. Deserved or not, I am glad Ashley at least took a world silver.

The prospects of US ladies skating is quite dire for the coming quad to be honest. I don't see Ashley, Mirai, Gracie and Polina Edmunds coming back or staying that long (although I would love to be proven wrong), there really isn't many others who have been successful internationally. I don't see Angela, Karen, Amber, Mariah, Courtney etc further moving up internationally. Bradie doesn't quite have the star power or package but hopefully they will work on that after this breakthrough season. The promising juniors / new seniors will take a few seasons to grow but don't forget the last successful (hugely hyped up) batch of US junior girls (Caroline, Ashley, Mirai, Rachael back in 2008) didn't quite achieve international success at all or sustain it until a long time after turning senior (Ashley). Besides Ashley, my favorite is Emmy Ma but she doesn't even do 3toes and 3sals.

 

[Vagabond]

Four years is a long time in Ladies' figure skating. What was Alina Zagitova doing in May 2014?

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe I'm being too pessimistic, but I think top ten finishes are something we American ladies fans should be happy about from now to 2022 with a top 5 finish being something we should be very happy about given the competition internationally. If we back into 3 spots again like we did at 2017 Worlds, then there's reason to celebrate. I just can't go in expecting anything anymore and I will have to learn to appreciate who we do have like Ashley. I know I should have appreciated her more in the past four years. I just hope people are nicer to Bradie and Karen. I mean I know there's a lot to criticize, but they are who they are and I just want them to gain some respect by skating up to their own expectations. We know Bradie can at least skate cleanly when she's on and we know Karen can actually be an explosive skater who lands and rotates things. I just wish they didn't give their critics such easy fodder to pick them apart as it's sort of tough to read at times. Also, just reading what I wrote, I think I've grown soft since I joined FSU 15 years ago.

 

[Wyliefan]

Alysa Liu said once or twice in her Instagram stories that she wants to skate senior next season, at least domestically. But is that even possible at her age? Anyway, she seems like an ambitious girl, and Lord knows we could use one or two of those!

 

[Debbie S]

Alysa Liu said once or twice in her Instagram stories that she wants to skate senior next season, at least domestically. But is that even possible at her age? Anyway, she seems like an ambitious girl, and Lord knows we could use one or two of those!

Yes, it's possible. There are no age restrictions in Novice level and up in the U.S. But Alysa is not eligible for Junior int'ls until fall 2019, and not Senior until fall 2021 (unless the age min gets raised).

 

[Marco]

Is Alysa Liu Chinese ot Taiwanese? I keep thinking of the reporting on Chinese Fed approaching US girls with Chinese origin to represent China at 2022 Games.

 

[Willin]

@Marco Chinese - or her father is. But he's lived in the US since 1989 according to one article, so I don't know what he considers himself. She's lived in the US her entire life, as have her four siblings, so somehow I doubt she'd switch to skating for China so easily.
Maybe if she's one of those girls like Amy Lin or Alexia Paganini who were incredibly promising and then hit a rough patch that made it seem like they'd never be competitive at the US Senior level. Ultimately I think since she's dominating as opposed to simply being competitive, she's not likely to have that problem and will likely compete for the US.

 

[Marco]

@Marco Chinese - or her father is. But he's lived in the US since 1989 according to one article, so I don't know what he considers himself. She's lived in the US her entire life, as have her four siblings, so somehow I doubt she'd switch to skating for China so easily.
Maybe if she's one of those girls like Amy Lin or Alexia Paganini who were incredibly promising and then hit a rough patch that made it seem like they'd never be competitive at the US Senior level. Ultimately I think since she's dominating as opposed to simply being competitive, she's not likely to have that problem and will likely compete for the US.

Thanks Willin. Well if the Chinese Fed financially supports her training in the USA all through 2022 and finds a way to let her keep her US passport, AND guarantees her a spot at the Worlds/Olympics that she is age-eligible in, it can be quite tempting.

 

[Vagabond]

Well if the Chinese Fed financially supports her training in the USA all through 2022 and finds a way to let her keep her US passport, AND guarantees her a spot at the Worlds/Olympics that she is age-eligible in, it can be quite tempting.

Really? What if she wants to leave open the possibility of competing after the 2021-22 season?

 

[Willin]

I don't think her Dad's hurting for money. IIRC she and all four of her siblings were born via surrogate, and although they currently live in Richmond, I thought I heard her Dad lived in Piedmont (a very wealthy area) for a while. If he has the money to raise 5 kids by himself and have her skate as much as she is right now, I don't think he'll have issues supporting a Senior career with the additional funding she'll be getting from USFSA.

My point being, while I'm sure her father would appreciate funding from the Chinese federation, I don't think she's a skater in a situation where she requires substantial funding to keep skating or where that pressure would be great enough to force her to change federations.

 

[Marco]

Well, the competition would be quite different. In China there's Li Xiangning who struggles to land 3/2s. Then there's the girls in the US...

 

[Maximillian]

Cohen was a phenomenon the likes of which skating has rarely seen, she would have excelled in any generation because of what she did from the ankle up. The positions and the line were pristine, unlike any other lady I've ever seen. I don't think comparing her to Wagner is anywhere near accurate, especially in light of the fact that there are SO many U.S. ladies who have skated just like Wagner, that is: with great musical interpretation, smoothness, and style. Off the top of my head I can think of several ladies: Kerrigan, Kwiatkowski, Trenary, Sumners whose skating was much more in-line with Wagner's skating than Cohen.

 

[clairecloutier]

Recently I was watching some videos of Sasha Cohen at 15. The quality of her artistry and presentation at 15 was so far beyond most skaters at that age, including the Russian phenoms of today. She really was quite extraordinary in that way. And I agree @Maximillian about Ashley Wagner's overall style and look being more in keeping with the classic American ladies style of Kerrigan, Sumners, etc.

 

[Lizziebeth]

Recently I was watching some videos of Sasha Cohen at 15. The quality of her artistry and presentation at 15 was so far beyond most skaters at that age, including the Russian phenoms of today. She really was quite extraordinary in that way. And I agree @Maximillian about Ashley Wagner's overall style and look being more in keeping with the classic American ladies style of Kerrigan, Sumners, etc.

Being a Sasha fan could be a little frustrating, but she had the IT factor in spades, from a very early age. I've often felt a bit sorry for her that her career was at the same time as Michelle Kwan. She would have won more US titles. She did very well internationally and I think she will long be remembered in skating in spite of the fact that she is not the gold medalist of everything.

 

[bardtoob]

You can't blame Kwan for Cohen being outskated by Meissner and Suguri at 2006 Worlds.

 

[ilovepaydays]

You can't blame Kwan for Cohen being outskated by Meissner and Suguri at 2006 Worlds.

Or by Arakawa - who didn't even include a 3/3 - in the 2006 Olympics.

 

[Maximillian]

Don't think anyone said anything about Cohen not winning World or Olympic titles because of Kwan...I believe they said that she might have won more U.S. titles if Kwan hadn't been there. But by all means, please be antagonistic for no reason...

 

[bardtoob]

Don't think anyone said anything about Cohen not winning World or Olympic titles because of Kwan...I believe they said that she might have won more U.S. titles if Kwan hadn't been there. But by all means, please be antagonistic for no reason...

You're right. I should save that until after the DWTS Finale is over . . . or I will use it all up before the off-off season.

 

[Marco]

Being a Sasha fan could be a little frustrating, but she had the IT factor in spades, from a very early age. I've often felt a bit sorry for her that her career was at the same time as Michelle Kwan. She would have won more US titles. She did very well internationally and I think she will long be remembered in skating in spite of the fact that she is not the gold medalist of everything.

I believe the biggest / most prestigous competition she has won besides the US Nationals at 2006 was the 2002/3 GPF.

True Michelle being there meant Sasha didn't get to win more titles. But how many of those was Sasha's own doing? Michelle did not skate all at well at 2000 or 2005 - it was just that Sasha didn't seize the opporunity and actually skated worse. In 2003 she was breaking through at the GPs and had great momentum after beating Irina at GPF in Russia, but her weird mistakes left her 3rd behind Michelle and Sarah. In 2004, she was actually in the lead after the short ahead of a cleanish Michelle. I believe the judges had given her all the support in the world and was just waiting for her to fully realize her talent before they could legitimately crown her. Perhaps Michelle not being at 2006 Nationals was an emtional relief for her more than anything. And you can't exactly blame Michelle for Sasha losing out to a bunch of messy teens in 2010.

 

[WillyElliot]

Four years is a long time in Ladies' figure skating. What was Alina Zagitova doing in May 2014?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5qtHNahWi0

 

[Vagabond]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5qtHNahWi0

She shows potential but needs to improve her posture.

 

[missing]

A very nice tweet for a very real accomplishment:

Skating Club of NY‏ @SkatingClubofNY

• Many congratulations to our own @SarahHughesNY J.D. for her graduation from @PennLaw today — we are extremely proud of you! #Pennlaw2018

 

[AxelAnnie]

And now the real fun begins with the bar exam.