2018 US Olympic, World, 4CC and Junior Worlds selections

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vesperholly

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2018 Olympics
Bradie Tennell
Mirai Nagasu
Karen Chen

Alternate 1 – Ashley Wagner
Alternate 2 – Mariah Bell
Alternate 3 – Angela Wang

Nathan Chen
Vincent Zhou
Adam Rippon

Alternate 1 - Jason Brown
Alternate 2 - Ross Miner
Alternate 3 - Max Aaron

Alexa Scimeca-Knierim/Christopher Knierim

Alternate 1 - Tarah Kayne/Danny O’Shea
Alternate 2 – Deanna Stellato/Nathan Bartholomay
Alternate 3 – Ashley Cain/Timothy LeDuc

Madison Chock/Evan Bates
Madison Hubbell/Zachary Donohue
Maia Shibutani/Alex Shibutani

Alternate 1 – Kaitlin Hawayek/Jean-Luc Baker
Alternate 2 – Lorraine McNamara/Quinn Carpenter
Alternate 3 – Rachel Parsons/Michael Parsons

2018 World Championships
Bradie Tennell
Mirai Nagasu
Karen Chen

Alternate 1 – Ashley Wagner
Alternate 2 – Mariah Bell
Alternate 3 – Angela Wang

Nathan Chen
Adam Rippon
Vincent Zhou

Alternate 1 – Jason Brown
Alternate 2 – Ross Miner
Alternate 3 – Max Aaron

Tarah Kayne/Danny O’Shea
Alexa Scimeca-Knierim/Chris Knierim

Alternate 1 – Deanna Stellato/Nathan Bartholomay
Alternate 2 – Ashley Cain/Timothy LeDuc
Alternate 3 – Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier

Madison Chock/Evan Bates
Madison Hubbell/Zachary Donohue
Maia Shibutani/Alex Shibutani

Alternate 1 – Kaitlin Hawayek/Jean-Luc Baker
Alternate 2 – Lorraine McNamara/Quinn Carpenter
Alternate 3 – Rachel Parsons/Michael Parsons

2018 Four Continents Championships
Starr Andrews
Mariah Bell
Ashley Wagner

Alternate 1 – Angela Wang
Alternate 2 – Amber Glenn
Alternate 3 – Courtney Hicks

Jason Brown
Ross Miner
Max Aaron

Alternate 1 – Grant Hochstein
Alternate 2 – Timothy Dolensky
Alternate 3 – Alexander Johnson

Ashley Cain/Timothy LeDuc
Tarah Kayne/Danny O’Shea
Deanna Stellato/Nathan Bartholomay

Alternate 1 – Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier
Alternate 2 – Marissa Castelli/Mervin Tran
Alternate 3 – Chelsea Liu/Brian Johnson

Kaitlin Hawayek/Jean-Luc Baker
Lorraine McNamara/Quinn Carpenter
Rachel Parsons/Michael Parsons

Alternate 1 – Elliana Pogrebinsky/Alex Benoit
Alternate 2 – Karina Manta/Joseph Johnson
Alternate 3 – Julia Biechler/Damian Dodge

2018 Junior World Championships
Starr Andrews
Ting Cui

Alternates (not ranked): Hanna Harrell, Tessa Hong, Emmy Ma.

Alex Krasnozhon
Camden Pulkinen
Tomoki Hiwatashi

Alternates (not ranked): Maxim Naumov, Andrew Torgashev, Dinh Tran.

Sarah Feng/TJ Nyman
Audrey Lu/Misha Mitrofanov

Alternate 1 – Laiken Lockley/Keenan Prochnow
Alternate 2 – Nadine Wang/Spencer Howe
Alternate 3 – Elli Kopmar/Jonah Barrett

Christina Carreira/Anthony Ponomarenko
Caroline Green/Gordon Green
Chloe Lewis/Logan Bye

Alternate 1 – Eliana Gropman/Ian Somerville
Alternate 2 – Avonlea Nguyen/Vadym Kolesnik
Alternate 3 – Emma Gunter/Caleb Wein
 
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If intl results trumps nationals, then Hicks should be on the 4CC team. Hicks outscored Andrews on the challenger circuit and Hicks was 4th on the GP. But she doesn't get to pass anyone even in the alternate list.

Aaron got a gift that other similarly situated skaters did not.

ETA: the inconsistency bothers me. I'm not arguing that Hicks really should have been chosen for 4CC.
 
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I mean, the second they won yesterday it was kinda obvious. I wondered if they'd even bother to pretend like they'd discussed not sending Scimeca-Knierim/Knierim... Maybe they wanted time to discuss the spots for other competitions? Either way, good for them.

Even though Nationals has been insane this year for Men's and Ladies, I think the teams were the right choices based off of what happened. The Max selection is a headscratcher, but maybe they know he intends to retire (or something like that?) so they want to give him one last hurrah of a competition?
 
Very strange selections. But everything could have gone either way. I guess they can justify each choice, it was difficult, but after Nationals results, I didn't expect that.
 
Willin said:
The Max selection is a headscratcher, but maybe they know he intends to retire (or something like that?) so they want to give him one last hurrah of a competition?
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I understand that rationale (that and Max's bronze at Cup of China), yet 4CC could have been a valuable opportunity for skaters that are definitely continuing at least to next season to earn additional ISU World Standing points or improve on Season Best.
 
@Seerek I'm not saying it's right - just that it's a possible explanation. Especially since they said several times during the competition that Max considered retiring in 2013 and that he'd finished college, one wonders if they were thinking he was going to retire.

@Lanie Well, Max is a former National Champ and has a better international resume this season (and overall) than Grant, along with higher planned technical content, so you could look at it that way. Or you could add in the Tom Z factor. (I don't generally support the Tom Z conspiracy theory, but in this case it seems plausible)
 
Pairs selections:

Olympics: Scimeca-Knierim/Knierim Alternates: 1. Kayne/O'Shea 2. Stellato/Bartholomay 3. Cain/LeDuc
Worlds: Scimeca-Knierim/Knierim, Kayne/O'Shea Alternates: 1. Stellato/Bartholomay, 2. Cain/LeDuc 3. Denney/Frazier
4CC: Kayne/O'Shea, Stellato/Bartholomay, Cain/LeDuc Alternates: 1. Denney/Frazier 2. Castelli/Tran 3. Liu/Johnson
JW: Lu/Mitrofanov, Feng/Nyman


https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/950066580787937280
 
Pair & alternates nominated to the Olympics (Jan. 7): http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=91147&type=media

The pairs team [for the Olympics] is Alexa Scimeca-Knierim and Chris Knierim.
...
Alternates for the 2018 Olympic Team have been named as Tarah Kayne and Danny O’Shea (first alternate), Deanna Stellato and Nathan Bartholomay (second alternate), and Ashley Cain and Timothy LeDuc (third alternate).

Pairs selections for ISU Championships (Jan. 7): http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=91148&type=media

2018 Four Continents Championships
Ashley Cain/Timothy LeDuc
Tarah Kayne/Danny O’Shea
Deanna Stellato/Nathan Bartholomay

Alternate 1 – Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier
Alternate 2 – Marissa Castelli/Mervin Tran
Alternate 3 – Chelsea Liu/Brian Johnson


2018 World Junior Championships
Sarah Feng/TJ Nyman
Audrey Lu/Misha Mitrofanov

Alternate 1 – Laiken Lockley/Keenan Prochnow
Alternate 2 – Nadine Wang/Spencer Howe
Alternate 3 – Elli Kopmar/Jonah Barrett

---
Adding links to the individual press releases (names copied out in post #1):

Ladies nominated to the Olympic team (Jan. 6): http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=91141&type=media
Ladies & alternates selected for ISU Championships (Jan. 6): http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=91142&type=media

Men nominated to the Olympic team (Jan. 7): http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=91145&type=media
Men & alternates selected for ISU Championships (Jan. 7): http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=91146&type=media
---

"U.S. Figure Skating will announce the ice dance athletes selected to compete at the Olympic Winter Games, along with the United States’ World, World Junior and Four Continents teams for ice dance at 8:55 p.m. ET on Sunday, January 7.

ETA link to the Olympic team nominations for ice dance: http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=91150&type=media

The ice dance team is Madison Chock and Evan Bates, Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue, and Maia Shibutani and Alex Shibutani.
...
Alternates for the 2018 Olympic Team have been named as Kaitlin Hawayek and Jean-Luc Baker (first alternate), Lorraine McNamara and Quinn Carpenter (second alternate), and Rachel Parsons and Michael Parsons (third alternate).

Link to the 2018 World, Four Continents and World Junior Dance Teams & alternates: http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=91151&type=media

2018 World Championships
Madison Chock/Evan Bates
Madison Hubbell/Zachary Donohue
Maia Shibutani/Alex Shibutani

Alternate 1 – Kaitlin Hawayek/Jean-Luc Baker
Alternate 2 – Lorraine McNamara/Quinn Carpenter
Alternate 3 – Rachel Parsons/Michael Parsons


2018 Four Continents Championships
Kaitlin Hawayek/Jean-Luc Baker
Lorraine McNamara/Quinn Carpenter
Rachel Parsons/Michael Parsons

Alternate 1 – Elliana Pogrebinsky/Alex Benoit
Alternate 2 – Karina Manta/Joseph Johnson
Alternate 3 – Julia Biechler/Damian Dodge


2018 World Junior Championships
Christina Carreira/Anthony Ponomarenko
Caroline Green/Gordon Green
Chloe Lewis/Logan Bye

Alternate 1 – Eliana Gropman/Ian Somerville
Alternate 2 – Avonlea Nguyen/Vadym Kolesnik
Alternate 3 – Emma Gunter/Caleb Wein

"All U.S. Olympic Team nominations are subject to approval by the United States Olympic Committee (USOC)."
 
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taf2002 said:
I don't understand Ross not even being alternate 1. that's insane.
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The tier 1 events were the 2018 Nationals (Ross has the clear edge there), 2017 World Championships (Jason qualified and skated well, placing 7th), and the Grand Prix Final (Jason qualified there as an alternate and although he placed last, his total score was 20 points higher than Ross's international SB). Jason wins on 2 out of 3 criteria. These are explicitly stated in the guidelines to be of equal weight, and of higher weight than any other competitions.

2017 Grand Prix events (other than the final) were in tier 2, and Jason has the clear edge there too, scoring 25 points better in his worst event than Ross did in his only one (that worst score for Jason was also 12 points better than Ross's SB from Finlandia, where he placed behind both Vincent and Adam).

I was thrilled for Ross's performance and feel for him in not being selected, but I think the committee correctly applied the criteria that all skaters were or should have been aware of.
 
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I think making Jason the first alternate is fine; skaters are fragile. I don't understand then assigning him to Four Continents; surely we want him to focus his training on being ready for Korea. Grant definitely deserves a slot at Four Continents; I assume Jason will decline and Grant will go.
 
RFOS said:
The tier 1 events were the 2018 Nationals (Ross has the clear edge there), 2017 World Championships (Jason qualified and skated well, placing 7th), and the Grand Prix Final (Jason qualified there as an alternate and although he placed last, his total score was 20 points higher than Ross's international SB). Jason wins on 2 out of 3 criteria. These are explicitly stated in the guidelines to be of equal weight, and of higher weight than any other competitions.

2017 Grand Prix events (other than the final) were in tier 2, and Jason has the clear edge there too, scoring 25 points better in his worst event than Ross did in his only one (that worst score for Jason was also 12 points better than Ross's SB from Finlandia, where he placed behind both Vincent and Adam).

I was thrilled for Ross's performance and feel for him in not being selected, but I think the committee correctly applied the criteria that all skaters were or should have been aware of.
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yes, Jason has a better bow but that really doesn't matter here. As long as chen & Zhou are there it really doesn't matter who #3 is. if one of these 2 is the one to drop out ross has as good a chance as adam or Jason to hold the US up in the team comp - all 3 can be headcases at times & all 3 have the ability to be brilliant at times. since they bumped ross off the oly team they could at the very least made him 1st alternate for either the olys or worlds, if not both. They act like the fate of the nation is in this decision. It's not. the US men (except Chen) are just not that good.
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
LOL, um no.

If thats the case Ashley is marching her tooshie to Korea, and Mirai and Karen get to settle in for 4CC. Or in Karens case alternate for everything.
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If USFS hadn't already used its mulligan on Ashley in 2014, I think there is a good chance there would be a different Olympic team discussion - it's not like the named Olympic team members were tearing up the GP this fall. But bumping Mirai for TWO Olympics for Pewter Ashley wasn't going to happen. Of course, now that "Body of Work" is a thing, the door is much more open for such a scenario to play out in the future.

The thing is, USFS can publish its "criteria," but there's nothing concrete about how much each Tier is to be weighted. In the end, it still comes down to the opinion of a committee.
 
What it boils down to is that USFSA can send anyone they want.

For example, a skater can be defending/current Olympic, World and National Champion along with a winning "Body of Work". However, if USFSA doesn't like that skater, they can choose to leave him or her at home for "reasons".

legjumper said:
If USFS hadn't already used its mulligan on Ashley in 2014, I think there is a good chance there would be a different Olympic team discussion - it's not like the named Olympic team members were tearing up the GP this fall. But bumping Mirai for TWO Olympics for Pewter Ashley wasn't going to happen. Of course, now that "Body of Work" is a thing, the door is much more open for such a scenario to play out in the future. The thing is, USFS can publish its "criteria," but there's nothing concrete about how much each Tier is to be weighted. In the end, it still comes down to the opinion of a committee.
Click to expand...
 
chapis said:
yes, and the problem is that GP assignments are not very fair either.
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That's not necessarily something the USFS can control.

flyingsit said:
What is the body of work for Max over Grant? 2018 Nationals is Tier 1 and Grant clearly beat him. And also at 2017 Nationals. Neither made the GPF or went to worlds last year. So I guess one GP bronze is more important than two consecutive nationals.
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It's not just the bronze medal. Max also has a CS silver from this season (at an event where the winner was Chen). Even when Max skated poorly in France, he still finished higher than Grant's best GP finish this season (and France was not a soft event). Max was in crap form last season too and still comprehensively outskated Grant on the GP. His international average score is probably quite a bit higher at the moment.

Look, I'm not saying I'm completely comfortable with the decision - I was so shocked this morning I couldn't even think a coherent sentence for five minutes - but I don't think it's quite as "Max has no BOW!" as you portray.
 
legjumper said:
If USFS hadn't already used its mulligan on Ashley in 2014, I think there is a good chance there would be a different Olympic team discussion - it's not like the named Olympic team members were tearing up the GP this fall. But bumping Mirai for TWO Olympics for Pewter Ashley wasn't going to happen. Of course, now that "Body of Work" is a thing, the door is much more open for such a scenario to play out in the future.

The thing is, USFS can publish its "criteria," but there's nothing concrete about how much each Tier is to be weighted. In the end, it still comes down to the opinion of a committee.
Click to expand...

Yea.

I dont know why 2017 Worlds is criteria... Thats so strange. Or even a Nationals thats even older than that.

I dont care how they performed a year ago.. I want to know how they have been performing now, and now Only.

So, Karen I would have off the team. Too frantic, too indecisive, too nervous, too risky.

I know what Im gonna get with an Ashley. A mature performance, committed to a character with probably some URs.

With Karen its all fog. Most likely a fall, and for sure URs. Heck, I wouldn't even know what programs she is showing up to to perform.
 
So why don't we make the most recent 2 seasons of competitions official criteria for selections? Let's call it the USFSA World/Olympic Series:

Tier 1 - 20 points for winning, 16 points for 2nd, 14 points for 3rd, 12 points for 4th, 10 for 5th, 8 for 6th and 6 for top 10, 5 for top 20, 3 for participating, 1 for being named to the team but not participating
- Current season - U.S. Figure Skating Championships
- Current season - ISU Grand Prix Final
- Prior season - ISU World Figure Skating Championships

Tier 2 - 10 points for winning, 8 points for 2nd, 6 points for 3rd, 5 points for 4th, 4 for 5th, 3 for 6th and 2 for top 10, 1 for participating
- Current season - Grand Prix Series Competitions
- Current season - Four Continents Figure Skating Championships

Tier 3 - 5 points for winning, 4 points for 2nd, 3 points for 3rd, 2 points for 4th, 1 for 5th, 0.5 for 6th and 0.25 for top 10, 0.1 for participating
- Current season - Challenger Series Events and other senior international competitions
- Prior season - U.S. Figure Skating Championships
- 2 seasons before - World Figure Skating Championships
- Prior season - World Junior Figure Skating Championships
- Prior season - ISU Grand Prix Final
- Prior season - ISU Junior Grand Prix Final

So I played with the top 6 at Nationals for Men and Women and this what I got for points...

After playing with these numbers, the Body of Work (BOW) favors more experienced skaters and not so much who is doing well right now even when we weight the current season performances. For the men, I think Jason is very shaky right now, but past performances hold him up over Adam and Vincent. And I personally love Jason's skating.
For the women, the current champion, Bradie, is dumped in favor of Ashley's BOW. Although I loved Ashley's LLL program and costume, I think she is not performing well right now. Bradie is on a roll at the moment. Mirai fought like a tiger all season to get to where she is. Karen has successes at the big competitions in the last 12 months.

Men - Rank Name Club Total
1 Nathan Chen Salt Lake Figure Skating 88.5
2 Jason Brown Skokie Valley SC 45.25
3 Adam Rippon SC of New York 42
4 Vincent Zhou SC of San Francisco 33
5 Ross Miner SC of Boston 21.5
6 Grant Hochstein SC of New York 19.25

Women -
Rank Name Club Total
1 Karen Chen Peninsula SC 39
2 Mirai Nagasu Pasadena FSC 35.25
3 Ashley Wagner SC of Wilmington 34
4 Bradie Tennell Skokie Valley SC 33.5
5 Mariah Bell Rocky Mountain FSC 27
6 Starr Andrews Los Angeles FSC 13.6


 
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