2024 Four Continents/Junior Worlds/Worlds US Team Speculation

Karen-W · Dec 3, 2023

Starting a centralized thread for this since the main discussion has been in the NQS thread, but there's also been discussion in the US Women's thread this past week and there were some interesting tidbits dropped in today's TSL show.

From the NQS thread:

ice coverage said:
USFS selection procedures for 2024 Worlds, 2024 Four Continents, and 2024 Junior Worlds have been published on USFS site.

For "Calculation of Overall Athlete Performance Data," weighting factors for different events now are specified -- all of which looks very interesting.
I have not gone through everything closely yet (especially the parts about how previous season is taken into account), but ...

Of relevance to this thread, Four Continents selection procedures include "Current Sectional Final," with a high weighting factor.
(And Four Continents selection does not include the current U.S. Nats. )

1. Current Sectional Final (factor 4.0)
a. If not at Sectional Final due to bye, most recent international score will be used at the same factor.

2. Most recent ISU Grand Prix Final (factor 3.0)
3. Grand Prix Score: Highest & Average (factor 1.25)
4. Challenger Score: Highest & Average (factor 1.0)
5. Senior B Score: Highest & Average (factor 0.75)
6. Previous Season’s Total Score (see appendix) (factor 15)

https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/2024%20Four%20Continents%20Selection%20Procedures.pdf

World Team Selection Procedures:

https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/2024%20World%20Team%20Selection%20Procedures.pdf

World Junior Selection Procedures:

https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/2024%20World%20Junior%20Team%20Selection%20Procedures.pdf

Karen-W said:
Still wondering if someone can explain the weighting factor and how it works. I'm trying to understand why it is that LAST season's total score is given a factor of 15, which is more than the CURRENT season's maximum combined factor (10) by 50%. It seems bizarre that the USFS would weigh last season's score so much more than this season. It makes me wonder if it is a typo and last season's factor should be 1.5 not 15.

ETA - I just looked at the Appendix and it makes more sense now, and the factor of 15 also makes sense too. They're giving points for placements for certain events.

Based on the table above -

Men -
Malinin - (10+4)×15 = 210
Brown - (5+2)×15 = 105
Torgashev - 2×15 = 30

Women -
Levito - (5+4)×15 = 135
Glenn - 2×15 = 30

Pairs -
Chan/Howe - (5+6+2)×15 = 195
Plazas/Fernandez - 3×15 = 45
Kam/O'Shea - 2×15 = 30

Dance -
Chock/Bates - (12+6+4)×15 = 330
Green/Parsons - (5+3+2)×15 = 150
Carreira/Ponomarenko - (3+2)×15 = 75

I'll have to set up an Excel spreadsheet to calculate this season's scores and factoring, but that's a project for when I'm not so sleepy, lol.

Karen-W said:
The formula I have for the CS Average is ((X+Y)/2)*1.0, so right now both ZingKol and PlaFern are going to gain points after Golden Spin. Same for the singles skaters assigned there.

Karen-W said:
Okay, so I've started working on the calculations and I started with Ice Dance - red indicates one competition left.

Skater Sectional
*4 GPF
*3 GP Highest
*1.25 GP Average
*1.25 CS Highest
*1 CS Average
*1 Sr B Highest
*.75 Sr B Average
*.75 Prev Season
*15 Total
Pate/Bye
738.32
0
230.725
228.775
191.2
191.2
133.4625
133.4625
0
1847.15
Brown/Brown
750.48
0
234.525
228.01875
177.66
177.66
135.495
135.495
0
1839.33
Green/Parsons
757.32
0
236.6625
234
168.56
168.56
0
0
150
1715.10
Chock/Bates
837.84
0
266.2
264.0125
0
0
0
0
330
1698.05
McNamara/Spiridonov
671.36
0
209.8
207.55625
167.77
167.77
126.8625
126.8625
0
1677.98
Carreira/Ponomarenko
755.04
0
235.95
234.6625
191.14
184.525
0
0
75
1676.32
Zingas/Kolesnik
735.12
0
231.2
230.4625
187.28
93.64
0
0
0
1477.70
Bratti/Somerville
733.72
0
229.2875
226.7625
177.66
177.66
0
0
0
1545.09
Wolfkostin/Tsarevski
742.16
0
0
0
172.88
168.11
0
0
0
1083.15
Ling/Wein
665.52
0
0
0
0
0
115.3875
115.3875
0
896.30
Flores/Desyatov
713.44
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
713.44
Koncius/Shchepetov
623.92
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
623.92
Kowar/Schwappach
530.36
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
530.36
Murphy/Levitt
482.68
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
482.68
Hawayek/Baker
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0.00

Karen-W said:
Next up is Pairs - red indicates one competition left.

Skater Sectional
*4 GPF
*3 GP Highest
*1.25 GP Average
*1.25 CS Highest
*1 CS Average
*1 Sr B Highest
*.75 Sr B Average
*.75 Prev Season
*15 Total
Plazas/Fernandez
672.8
0
210.25
203.3
169.37
84.685
121.1325
121.1325
45
1627.67
Martins/Bedard
662.92
0
193.325
193.325
152.64
152.64
101.3775
101.3775
0
1557.61
Liu/Nagy
690.4
0
222.075
218.9125
165.2
165.2
0
0
0
1461.79
Kam/O'Shea
608.64
0
190.2
190.2
182.07
182.07
0
0
30
1383.18
Mokhova/Mokhov
539.24
0
168.5125
168.5125
127.05
127.05
109.3125
109.3125
0
1348.99
Ouellette/Newby-Estrella
573.28
0
0
0
0
0
102.975
100.75125
0
777.01
Hanns/Neudecker
550.12
0
0
0
0
0
103.1475
103.1475
0
756.42
Digerness/Sadusky
611.8
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
611.80
Fitzpatrick/Bearinger
587.8
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
587.80
Wessenberg/Caputo
578.72
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
578.72
Chan/Howe
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
195
195.00

Karen-W said:
Okay - here are the Women - red indicates one competition remaining.

Skater Sectional
*4 GPF
*3 GP Highest
*1.25 GP Average
*1.25 CS Highest
*1 CS Average
*1 Sr B Highest
*.75 Sr B Average
*.75 Prev Season
*15 Total
Ziegler
802
0
250.625
250.625
173.6
165.495
137.8425
137.8425
0
1918.03
Levito
812.88
0
260.1875
257.10625
198.79
198.79
0
0
135
1862.75
Seo
681.64
0
204.7125
204.7125
171.94
171.94
111.3525
111.3525
0
1657.65
Shin
627.36
0
221.425
208.7375
169.04
169.04
128.5875
128.5875
0
1652.78
Thorngren
794.92
0
248.4125
242.65625
0
0
149.37
149.37
0
1584.73
Lin-Gracey
710
0
0
0
177.5
177.5
121.935
121.935
0
1308.87
Andrews
617.68
0
218.525
205.775
0
0
125.2125
125.2125
0
1292.41
Glenn
741.56
0
237.0375
234.3875
0
0
0
0
30
1242.99
Hilmer
653.24
0
0
0
160.13
160.13
121.05
121.05
0
1215.60
Everhardt
648.2
0
0
0
0
0
120.8325
120.8325
0
889.87
Warne-Jacobsen
683.72
0
0
0
0
0
96.6525
96.6525
0
877.03
Herrera
583.64
0
0
0
0
0
117.645
117.645
0
818.93
Pierce
575.4
0
0
0
0
0
93.9525
93.9525
0
763.31
Shen
740.84
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
740.84
Evans
638.8
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
638.80
M Lee
637.8
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
637.80
L Wang
636.6
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
636.60

Karen-W said:
And, the Men - red indicates one competition remaining

Skater Sectional
*4 GPF
*3 GP Highest
*1.25 GP Average
*1.25 CS Highest
*1 CS Average
*1 Sr B Highest
*.75 Sr B Average
*.75 Prev Season
*15 Total
Malinin
1218.72
0
388.0875
384.46875
281.68
281.68
0
0
210
2764.64
Ma
765.04
0
260.1875
247.7625
191.08
191.08
166.8675
166.8675
0
1988.89
Kapeikis
787.76
0
275.1875
260.68125
181.03
181.03
145.0425
145.0425
0
1975.77
Torgashev
878.68
0
274.5875
274.5875
233.26
233.26
0
0
30
1924.38
Pulkinen
917.28
0
288.55
287.6
210.46
210.46
0
0
0
1914.35
Broussard
724.6
0
226.4375
226.4375
216.1
216.1
130.7325
130.7325
0
1871.14
Naumov
842.12
0
263.1625
263.1625
201.71
201.71
0
0
0
1771.87
Hiwatashi
996.44
0
0
0
223.79
111.895
0
0
0
1332.13
Brown
681.64
0
0
0
236.75
236.75
0
0
105
1260.14
Endo
907.52
0
0
0
0
0
173.5575
173.5575
0
1254.64
Paniot
873.8
0
0
0
0
0
166.935
166.935
0
1207.67
Martynov
789.44
0
0
0
197.36
197.36
0
0
0
1184.16
Kovar
832.36
0
0
0
0
0
139.4625
139.4625
0
1111.29
Mindra
791.04
0
0
0
0
0
152.235
146.27625
0
1089.55
Annis
801.24
0
0
0
0
0
140.2125
140.2125
0
1081.67
Klein
792.96
0
0
0
0
0
133.35
133.35
0
1059.66
Murzin
773.8
0
0
0
0
0
141.3
141.3
0
1056.40
Zharkov
748.04
0
0
0
0
0
140.2575
140.2575
0
1028.56
Xie
795.36
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
795.36
Samohin
780.56
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
780.56

beckab81 said:
It appears to be benefiting lower ranked skaters and teams that only had 1 GP - athletes already in the top 24 SB/WR, and athletes with 2 GP's have less need to be sent to a non-challenger Sr. B, and USFS is less likely to spend the $$ to send them there. The prior season points aren't offsetting that nearly enough (especially with current season events basically counting 2x with average & highest). The top 5 from US Nationals are put into the selection pool as well, so it's not like anyone is being left out, but seeing the numbers makes me think USFS is not going to rely too much on the ranking - otherwise Seo & Shin could be given higher consideration than skaters that beat them on the GP.

It seems like a reasonable way to put a pool of athletes together, but not a good solution for final selection (IMO).

Karen-W said:
Yes, the selection pool includes the following:

1) Top 5 from the "Calculation of Overall Athlete Performance Data" (for 4CCs the athlete/team must have submitted an Intent to Compete form prior to the Int'l Committee's meeting on Dec 11-12)
2) Top 5 from US Nationals (2023 for 4CCs, 2024 for Worlds)
3) Top 10 from 2023 Worlds
4) All 2022 Olympic Team Members
5) Any athlete/team in the Top 24 of the CURRENT season's World Rankings
6) Any other athlete/team if unanimously approved by the Int'l Committee

So, the Selection Pool for each discipline should be:

Men - 7 - Malinin, Ma, Kapeikis, Torgashev, Pulkinen, Brown, Naumov
Women - 7 or 8 - Levito, Ziegler, Glenn, Andrews, Seo, Thorngren, Lin-Gracey, Shin (currently SWR #21)
Pairs - 6 - Liu/Nagy, Kam/O'Shea, Plazas/Fernandez, Martins/Bedard, Mokhova/Mokhov, Chan/Howe
Ice Dance - 9 - Chock/Bates, Pate/Bye, Brown/Brown, Green/Parsons, McNamara/Spiridonov, Carreira/Ponomarenko, Zingas/Kolesnik, Bratti/Somerville, Hawayek/Baker

ice coverage said:
So if I have everything straight in my head re Four Continents consideration, "Calculation of Overall Athlete Performance Data" is what will enable Kapeikis, Seo, Martins/Bedard, Mokhova/Mokhov, and McNamara/Spiridonov to be included in the pool for consideration. (All fine by me.)

They don't fit other criteria, and per the numbers seen in Karen's tables for Four Continents, they realistically will not be displaced from the top five positions in Calculation of Overall Data, regardless of Golden Spin results or GPF results.

Not wishing either of these scenarios on anyone, but I will be curious to see who in top five of "Calculation of Overall Athlete Performance Data" for Worlds consideration did not meet any other criteria -- with 2024 Nats score getting the highest weighting factor (x 4) instead of score from sectionals or most recent international.

Karen-W said:
Seo, the Mokhovs and McNamara/Spiridonov seem to be the likely candidates. The Mokhovs and McNamara/Spiridonov have pretty low scores in that Sectional/Most recent int'l category, so their Nationals score can only go up one would hope. McNamara/Spiridonov aren't getting within spitting distance of Top 5 at Nats. The Mokhovs might, if they're clean, finish Top 5, but I'd be surprised, especially with Chan/Howe, McBeath/Parkman and Efimova/Mitrofanov in the mix. Same goes for Seo, though we know she is capable of scoring well, but there are those international juniors who are skating senior at Nats who can easily outscore her and the likes of Levito, Glenn and Thorngren whose scores this season are consistently much higher than Clare's.

ice coverage said:
For Worlds consideration, I am definitely worried about McNamara/Spiridonov falling out of the top five of Calculation of Overall Data. In your table for Four Continents, they are in fifth position and not even two points ahead of Carreira/Ponomarenko.

Just roughly eyeballing your Four Continents table for Women, I am concerned whether Seo's small-ish "cushion" will be sufficient to keep her in top five of Calculation of Overall Data for Worlds consideration. I think it will depend on scores from Golden Spin and from Nats.

Agree that Mokhova/Mokhov will not fall out of top five of Calculation of Overall Data for Worlds consideration, and it could turn out to be the (only) reason that they do receive Worlds consideration.

And from the US Women thread:

jlai said:
So how do you think usfs would pick the 4cc team? This is unprecedented or is it?

Karen-W said:
Well, it all depends on which skaters WANT to go to 4CCs. I agree with most who expect Isabeau to pass - she's going to Beijing next week and certainly doesn't need the WS points for Worlds. Any of the rest would benefit from going to 4CCs. Unless Starr has an exceptional competition at Golden Spin, the three with the best scores internationally this season are Amber, Lindsay and Ava Marie - and it's not really close between them and the next tier, so those are the three I would select for the team.

toddlj said:
And here's the one for 4CCs (that mentions selection dates of 12/11 and 12/12 that Karen-W referred to above)

https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/2024%20Four%20Continents%20Selection%20Procedures.pdf

I wonder if they will list several alternates and then possibly shake up the team after nationals.

Karen-W said:
Doubtful. The 4CCs team will most likely travel directly from Columbus to Shanghai and will need to have their airline tickets and visas before Nats.

Jonas said:
I would be shocked if the USFSA DOESN'T outright name Amber, Lindsay, and Ava-Marie to Four Continents. I'd say name an alternate (Elyse Lin-Gracey??) in the likely event one of those three is named to the World team and opts not to travel.

I will say though that if I were Lindsay and Ava, I would compete at Four Continents even if I was named to the World Team. It's halfway through this Olympic cycle and these ladies have to think longer term. It'll give them experience at an ISU Championship. The scheduling is tough, but I can't imagine that they're not aware of it and not have prepped accordingly.

Your thoughts...

Wyliefan said:
Elyce has a good chance for alternate, I'd say, after the consistency she's been showing.

kre56 said:
I would say Elyce Lin-Gracry would have an out right spot with her body of work.

Karen-W said:
A JGP silver medal compared to GP gold, silver and bronze medals? Okay, then...

VGThuy said:
How so?

And the tidbits from today's TSL - per Dave Lease's conversations with Ari Zakarian, Ilia plans on skipping Art on Ice & the ISU Awards in favor of 4CCs this season. Their guest today, journalist Maya Bagriantseva who was at both GPdF and GP Espoo, stated that Chock/Bates told her (presumably at Espoo) that they will be at 4CCs.

jlai · Dec 3, 2023

Any speculations on men and dance? (other than Ilia and C/B)? Or pairs?

Karen-W · Dec 4, 2023

jlai said:
Any speculations on men and dance? (other than Ilia and C/B)? Or pairs?

Men - Camden seems like a lock since he has the highest GP scores out of the remaining men. Tomoki was really hurt by not having a GP this season, but the selection doc gives the International Committee the option of adding him to the selection pool by a unanimous vote and I think if he has another strong competition at Golden Spin then one of those spots would be his.

Dance - Depends on how much goodwill HawBak have from the IC, I suppose. They'll need the WS points for Worlds, presuming they actually compete this season. Probably GreenP for the 3rd spot and CarPon as the 1st alternate.

Pairs - ChanHowe, LiuNagy and probably KamOShea over PlaFern since Drew Meekins seems to have more political pull than Jim Peterson.

Jammers · Dec 4, 2023

Karen-W said:
Men - Camden seems like a lock since he has the highest GP scores out of the remaining men. Tomoki was really hurt by not having a GP this season, but the selection doc gives the International Committee the option of adding him to the selection pool by a unanimous vote and I think if he has another strong competition at Golden Spin then one of those spots would be his.

Dance - Depends on how much goodwill HawBak have from the IC, I suppose. They'll need the WS points for Worlds, presuming they actually compete this season. Probably GreenP for the 3rd spot and CarPon as the 1st alternate.

Pairs - ChanHowe, LiuNagy and probably KamOShea over PlaFern since Drew Meekins seems to have more political pull than Jim Peterson.

Camden a lock? :eek:

Vagabond · Dec 4, 2023

Jammers said:
Camden a lock?

Yes.

Stephanie · Dec 5, 2023

I was just reading the world junior selection procedures and it seems they’ll choose singles skaters right after nationals, not having a team selection camp as they have had for the past few seasons.

It’ll be interesting to see what sort of consideration the YOG athletes can and will receive.

Karen-W · Dec 5, 2023

Stephanie said:
I was just reading the world junior selection procedures and it seems they’ll choose singles skaters right after nationals, not having a team selection camp as they have had for the past few seasons.

It’ll be interesting to see what sort of consideration the YOG athletes can and will receive.

Yes, I've worked up the tables for each of the disciplines this afternoon for the "Calculation of Overall Athlete Performance Data". I'm not sure if all of the men & women competing in Juniors at Nats are age-eligible (ie - Keira Hilbelink is not yet old enough). Hopefully someone else (@Sylvia?) can let us know who is and is not age-eligible for Jr Worlds. Nationals is going to be an overwhelming factor in who winds up in the top 5 of the COAPD table in each discipline.

Also, the document doesn't address how the missing Nationals score will affect the WYOG participants (Sanchez, S Zhang, Smith/McPike & Ilin/Cain).

Men:

Skater	Nationals	GPF/JGPF	GP Highest	GP Average	JGP Highest	JGP Average	CS Highest	CS Average	Sr/Jr B Highest	Sr/Jr B Average	Prev Season	Total	Events
Malinin	0	0	388.0875	384.46875	0	0	281.68	281.68	0	0	210	1545.92	CS ACI, SkAm, GPdF, GPF
Broussard	0	0	226.4375	226.4375	0	0	216.1	216.1	130.7325	130.7325	0	1146.54	Cranberry, CS Nebelhorn, CoC
Martynov	0	0	0	0	275.1125	267.54375	197.36	197.36	0	0	0	937.38	JGP Osaka, JGP Yerevan, CS Warsaw
Strommer	0	0	0	0	263.65	256.9625	0	0	139.5825	139.5825	0	799.78	Cranberry, JGP Linz, JGP Gdansk
Fegan	0	0	0	0	232.225	232.225	0	0	133.455	133.455	0	731.36	Cranberry, JGP Yerevan
Kovar	0	0	0	0	207.875	207.875	0	0	139.4625	139.4625	0	694.68	JGP Istanbul, KCI
Sanchez	0	0	0	0	251.8625	250.1	0	0	0	0	0	501.96	JGP Bangkok, JGP Budapest, WYOG
Xie	0	0	0	0	255.1625	240.74375	0	0	0	0	0	495.91	JGP Bangkok, JGP Osaka
Annis	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	140.2125	140.2125	0	280.43	Cranberry
Brooks	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	133.4925	133.4925	0	266.99	KCI
Klein	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	133.35	133.35	0	266.70	Cranberry
Haugeto	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	128.07	128.07	0	256.14	Cranberry
Monaco	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	124.5825	124.5825	0	249.17	Cranberry
Shinohara	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	120.9525	120.9525	0	241.91	Cranberry
Elano	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	120.165	120.165	0	240.33	Cranberry
Vasquez	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	110.655	110.655	0	221.31	KCI
Lopinto	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	110.58	110.58	0	221.16	KCI
Hildebrandt	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	103.5375	103.5375	0	207.08	Cranberry
Nguyen	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	101.85	101.85	0	203.70	KCI
Azadpour	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Evseev	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Farrington	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Kazanecki	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Luu	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Maravilla	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Perthus	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Rosen	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Rudedenman	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Sedlis	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Tankovic	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Wang	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00

Women:

Skater	Nationals *4	GPF *3	GP Highest *1.25	GP Average *1.25	JGP Highest *1.25	JGP Average *1.25	CS Highest *1	CS Average *1	Sr/Jr B Highest *.75	Sr/Jr B Average *.75	Prev Season	Total	Events
Ziegler	0	0	250.625	250.625	0	0	173.6	165.495	137.8425	137.8425	0	1116.03	Cranberry, CS Lombardia, CS Finlandia, NHK
Levito	0	0	260.1875	257.10625	0	0	198.79	198.79	0	0	135	1049.87	CS Nebelhorn, SkAm, GPdF, GPF
Lin-Gracey	0	0	0	0	223.95	222.04375	177.5	177.5	121.935	121.935	0	1044.86	Cranberry, JGP Istanbul, JGP Yerevan, CS Warsaw
Seo	0	0	204.7125	204.7125	0	0	171.94	171.94	111.3525	111.3525	0	976.01	Cranberry, CS Budapest, SkAm
Thorngren	0	0	248.4125	242.65625	0	0	0	0	149.37	149.37	0	789.81	Cranberry, SCI, NHK
Chao	0	0	0	0	205.05	205.05	0	0	133.62	133.62	0	677.34	JGP Bangkok, KCI
Kalin	0	0	0	0	199.9125	199.9125	0	0	135.06	135.06	0	669.95	JGP Osaka, KCI
Everhardt	0	0	0	0	210.8625	210.8625	0	0	120.8325	120.8325	0	663.39	Cranberry, JGP Gdansk
J Lee	0	0	0	0	189.25	189.25	0	0	117.5325	117.5325	0	613.57	Cranberry, JGP Linz
S Zhang	0	0	0	0	218.975	216.14375	0	0	0	0	0	435.12	JGP Budapest, JGP Yerevan, WYOG
C Park	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	127.68	124.35375	0	252.03	KCI, Tayside
Shen	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	122.64	122.64	0	245.28	Cranberry
Higase-Chen	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	122.0175	122.0175	0	244.04	Cranberry
Herrera	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	117.645	117.645	0	235.29	KCI
E Cui	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	113.1375	113.1375	0	226.28	Cranberry
Johnson	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	112.6125	112.6125	0	225.23	Cranberry
T Kim	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	111.495	111.495	0	222.99	KCI
Barghout	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	111.1875	111.1875	0	222.38	Cranberry
Jurka	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	105.285	105.285	0	210.57	Cranberry
E Kim	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	97.665	97.665	0	195.33	KCI
Gibson	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	96.99	96.99	0	193.98	KCI
Baram	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	95.8875	95.8875	0	191.78	KCI
Bezkorovainaya	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Bonillo	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Clarke	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
K Hilbelink	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
H Kim	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Nemirovsky	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Platonova	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Shao	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
von Felten	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Wilson	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Z Zhang	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00

Pairs:

Skater	Nationals *4	GPF/JGPF *3	GP Highest *1.25	GP Average *1.25	JGP Highest *1.25	JGP Average *1.25	CS Highest *1	CS Average *1	Sr/Jr B Highest *.75	Sr/Jr B Average *.75	Prev Season	Total	Events
Flores/Wang	0	0	0	0	193.15	188.5875	0	0	0	0	0	381.74	JGP Linz, JGP Istanbul, JGPF
Zheng/Deng	0	0	0	0	133.65	133.65	0	0	0	0	0	267.30	JGP Istanbul
Carpenter/Maravilla	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	76.77	76.77	0	153.54	JNIPC
Fletcher/Felberbaum	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	73.47	73.47	0	146.94	JNIPC
Smith/McPike	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00	WYOG
Park/Griffin	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Williams/Lewer	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00

Ice Dance:

Skater	Nationals *4	GPF/JGPF *3	GP Highest *1.25	GP Average *1.25	JGP Highest *1.25	JGP Average *1.25	CS Highest *1	CS Average *1	Sr/Jr B Highest *.75	Sr/Jr B Average *.75	Prev Season	Total	Events
Neset/Markelov	0	0	0	0	210.5875	209.9875		0	120.9525	120.9525	0	662.48	LPIDI, JGP Bangkok, JGP Osaka
Peal/Peal	0	0	0	0	194.7875	186.6625	0	0	114.1575	114.1575	0	609.77	LPIDI, JGP Linz, JGP Yerevan
Mullen/Mullen	0	0	0	0	180.225	174.675	0	0	110.145	110.145	0	575.19	LPIDI, JGP Linz, JGP Osaka
Bland/Sperry	0	0	0	0	157.7125	157.7125	0	0	92.46	92.46	0	500.35	LPIDI, JGP Gdansk
Pedersen/Chen	0	0	0	0	182.9625	182.90625	0	0	0	0	0	365.87	JGP Linz, JGP Istanbul, JGPF
Cui/Eckert	0	0	0	0	169.0275	169.0275	0	0	0	0	0	338.06	JGP Gdansk
Ilin/Cain	0	0	0	0	168.5125	163.25625	0	0	0	0	0	331.77	JGP Istanbul, JGP Budapest, WYOG
Carhart/Horovyi	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	107.9475	107.9475	0	215.90	LPIDI
Epps/Gilman	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Hauer/Starr	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Li/Le Coq	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Renzi/Lissauer	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Yi/Savelev	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00

Belsornia · Dec 6, 2023

I wonder if Hawayek/Baker would want to go to 4CCs this season, even if they're eligible for selection. It's a tough turnaround for anyone, but two competitions in ten days (with an intercontinental flight in between) seems an especially hard ask for a team returning to competition after 14 months away. It would cost them WS points / Worlds start order of course, but from a performance perspective a better strategy might be Nationals - an easy win at Challenge Cup - Worlds.

YukiNieve · Dec 6, 2023

So "Calculation of Overall Athlete Performance Data" means that the more competitions you do (of course you need to be qualified/selected/invited), the higher scores you are likely to get for this particular criteria? (I understand that there are other criteria, too).

And winning the US Nationals does not "guarantee" a spot for the Worlds, then.

YukiNieve · Dec 6, 2023

Karen-W said:
And the tidbits from today's TSL - per Dave Lease's conversations with Ari Zakarian, Ilia plans on skipping Art on Ice & the ISU Awards in favor of 4CCs this season.

I do not mean a thread drift but Ilia's name is on AOI's website as AOI begins on Feb 8, 2024, later than past years.

The stars of this year's show

Sweet Dreams! A dream of Art on Ice’s producers is fulfilled. Dave Stewart brings original Eurythmics songs to the Art on Ice stage. Global star Natalie Imbruglia, Krokus singer Marc Storace, Remo Forrer and Jizelle complete the musical fireworks. The world’s best ice skaters will be appearing...

www.artonice.com

Karen-W · Dec 6, 2023

YukiNieve said:
I do not mean a thread drift but Ilia's name is back on AOI's website as AOI begins on Feb 8, 2024, later than past years.

The stars of this year's show

Sweet Dreams! A dream of Art on Ice’s producers is fulfilled. Dave Stewart brings original Eurythmics songs to the Art on Ice stage. Global star Natalie Imbruglia, Krokus singer Marc Storace, Remo Forrer and Jizelle complete the musical fireworks. The world’s best ice skaters will be appearing...

www.artonice.com

That could certainly work for any skaters who want to compete at 4CCs and still leave plenty of time before Worlds to properly train and prepare.

On My Own · Dec 6, 2023

Karen-W said:
That could certainly work for any skaters who want to compete at 4CCs and still leave plenty of time before Worlds to properly train and prepare.

US Nationals lasts till 28 Jan.

4CCs begins on 30 Jan.

Just for the record.

Karen-W · Dec 6, 2023

On My Own said:
US Nationals lasts till 28 Jan.

4CCs begins on 30 Jan.

Just for the record.

No kidding. That's why the USFS is selecting its 4CCs team next week. The skaters who want to be considered for 4CCs have to submit a form in which they accept that they'll be traveling directly from Columbus to Shanghai.

Also, official practices start on the 30th, but the competitions don't start until Feb 1st.

On My Own · Dec 6, 2023

Karen-W said:
Also, official practices start on the 30th, but the competitions don't start until Feb 1st.

No matter, but it seems strange that anyone who finishes first or second at nationals will want to pack their bags and get onto an 18+ hour long flight to go to a championship event that starts in two days, and pretty much immediately starts with the OPs (or not) and press cons. And then if it's Ilia, he'll also be doing Art on Ice three days later in Europe, apparently. And with Ilia again, I'd guess he'll be going for huge tech content at Nationals, and then again three days later on jet lag, apparently.

Ari Zakarian isn't exactly reliable, I'd think. And I would guess Chock/Bates aren't exactly keeping track of the events and event dates.

Karen-W · Dec 6, 2023

On My Own said:
Ari Zakarian isn't exactly reliable, I'd think. And I would guess Chock/Bates aren't exactly keeping track of the events and event dates.

Ari is Ilia's agent. If anyone is keeping track of the calendar, it would be him.

No one expected ChoBat to go to 4CCs last year, yet they did. They're both seasoned skaters. Now, if you wanted to make the argument that whatever they told a reporter at GP Espoo was just playing the "polite, general support of the ISU and its Championships" game, then I could buy your disbelief that they really do intend to compete. Instead, you're insulting their intelligence and experience and basic ability to read either the calendar or the USFS' 4CCs selection document and to have had a conversation with their coaches about their overall season competition plan several months ago. Skaters at their level are smarter than that.

On My Own · Dec 6, 2023

Karen-W said:
No one expected ChoBat to go to 4CCs last year, yet they did.

Last year, it was in the US, and it was a week after Nationals concluded.

Karen-W said:
Ari is Ilia's agent. If anyone is keeping track of the calendar, it would be him.

Didn't he also say that Ilia would be skipping Art on Ice, according to you?

Karen-W said:
per Dave Lease's conversations with Ari Zakarian, Ilia plans on skipping Art on Ice & the ISU Awards in favor of 4CCs this season.

If nothing else, plans change.

Karen-W said:
Instead, you're insulting their intelligence

I'm just saying I don't necessarily expect skaters to think that much about logistics, especially when the competition is in the second half of the season.

Maximillian · Dec 6, 2023

On My Own said:
I'm just saying I don't necessarily expect skaters to think that much about logistics, especially when the competition is in the second half of the season.

I think it's very naive to think that international elite level skaters, let alone a pair as seasoned as Chock and Bates would not be taking every aspect of every event they are considering entering when they plan their seasons in the Spring/Summer.

On My Own · Dec 6, 2023

OK we will see.

Karen-W · Dec 7, 2023

ice coverage said:
Me again.

Do not think it ultimately will make a difference in terms of assignments, but ... taking a closer look at the fine print for the selection procedures, I am sorry to say that for Senior Men, I do not think Kings Cup International will count as a Senior B for Calculation of Overall Data.
"* Note: Events must meet the criteria for Eligible Events as defined by the ISU in Communication #1629, page 4, paragraphs C.1.4 and C.2.3 to be used as part of the selection process."

C.1.4 from ISU Communication No. 1629:
"International Senior Competitions, provided there are minimum 8 single skaters, respectively 6 Ice Dance couples out of four ISU Members present respectively 5 Pairs out of three ISU Members."

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications-archives/1625-1629-world-standing-sandp-id/file

Per Kings Cup results page: Out of seven Senior Men entries, six completed the event.
Which seems to be why Goku Endo did not earn any ISU World Standings points for Kings Cup, as I noticed today for the first time.
(Presumably also true for other Senior Men from Kings Cup, although I have not checked.
And same problem for Junior Men from Kings Cup.)

Good catch. I'll exclude it from the Senior and Junior Men's tables. I'll have to check Tayside Trophy for Senior Pairs, and that would also exclude John Nicks IPC for Junior Pairs (3 teams from 2 ISU members).

coralline · Dec 8, 2023

Sorry for not reading the title carefully. deleted.

kwanfan1818 · Dec 8, 2023

Since no one is guaranteed a spot on either US team, it's all speculation until it's announced.

Karen-W · Dec 9, 2023

Well, Evan Bates just said on air after winning the GPF that they can't wait to return to China in a couple months. I think that confirms their intention of competing at 4CCs.

Karen-W · Dec 9, 2023

Okay, so we're waiting on Golden Spin Dance and Women's results, but... Here are the updated COAPD tables for the Men and Pairs...

Senior Men:

Skater	Sectional *4	GPF *3	GP Highest *1.25	GP Average *1.25	CS Highest *1	CS Average *1	Sr B Highest *.75	Sr B Average *.75	Prev Season *15	Total	Events
Malinin	1258.64	943.98	388.0875	384.46875	281.68	281.68	0	0	210	3748.54	CS ACI, SkAm, GPdF, GPF
Ma	765.04	0	260.1875	247.7625	191.08	191.08	166.8675	166.8675	0	1988.89	Cranberry, CS ACI, CoC, GP Espoo
Kapeikis	787.76	0	275.1875	260.68125	181.03	181.03	145.0425	145.0425	0	1975.77	Cranberry, CS Finlandia, SCI, GP Espoo
Torgashev	878.68	0	274.5875	274.5875	233.26	233.26	0	0	30	1924.38	CS Lombardia, SkAm
Pulkinen	917.28	0	288.55	287.6	210.46	210.46	0	0	0	1914.35	CS Lombardia, GPdF, NHK
Broussard	724.6	0	226.4375	226.4375	216.1	216.1	130.7325	130.7325	0	1871.14	Cranberry, CS Nebelhorn, CoC
Naumov	842.12	0	263.1625	263.1625	201.71	201.71	0	0	0	1771.87	CS Nepela, SkAm
Hiwatashi	996.44	0	0	0	223.79	207.755	0	0	0	1427.99	CS Budapest, CS Golden Spin
Brown	681.64	0	0	0	236.75	236.75	0	0	105	1260.14	CS Warsaw
Endo	907.52	0	0	0	197.59	197.59	0	0	0	1302.70	KCI*, CS Golden Spin
Martynov	789.44	0	0	0	197.36	197.36	0	0	0	1184.16	CS Warsaw
Mindra	791.04	0	0	0	0	0	140.3175	140.3175	0	1071.68	KCI*, Tayside
Annis	801.24	0	0	0	0	0	140.2125	140.2125	0	1081.67	Cranberry
Klein	792.96	0	0	0	0	0	133.35	133.35	0	1059.66	Cranberry
Murzin	773.8	0	0	0	0	0	141.3	141.3	0	1056.40	Cranberry
Zharkov	748.04	0	0	0	0	0	140.2575	140.2575	0	1028.56	Cranberry
Paniot	873.8	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	873.80	KCI*
Kovar	832.36	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	832.36	KCI*
Xie	795.36	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	795.36
Samohin	780.56	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	780.56

Selection Pool for 4CCs - Malinin, Ma, Kapeikis, Torgashev, Pulkinen, Brown, Naumov

Karen-W · Dec 9, 2023

Senior Pairs:

Skater	Sectional *4	GPF *3	GP Highest *1.25	GP Average *1.25	CS Highest *1	CS Average *1	Sr B Highest *1.25	Sr B Average *1.25	Prev Season *15	Total	Events
Plazas/Fernandez	672.56	0	210.25	203.3	169.37	168.755	121.1325	121.1325	45	1711.50	JNIPC, CS Nebelhorn, SkAm, GPdF, CS Golden Spin
Martins/Bedard	662.92	0	193.325	193.325	152.64	152.64	101.3775	101.3775	0	1557.61	JNIPC, CS ACI, SkAm
Liu/Nagy	690.4	0	222.075	218.9125	165.2	165.2	0	0	0	1461.79	CS ACI, SkAm, NHK
Kam/O'Shea	608.64	0	190.2	190.2	182.07	182.07	0	0	30	1383.18	CS Finlandia, GP Espoo
Mokhova/Mokhov	539.24	0	168.5125	168.5125	127.05	127.05	109.3125	109.3125	0	1348.99	JNIPC, CS Nebelhorn, CoC
Ouellette/Newby-Estrella	573.28	0	0	0	0	0	102.975	100.75125	0	777.01	JNIPC, Tayside
Hanns/Neudecker	550.12	0	0	0	0	0	103.1475	103.1475	0	756.42	JNIPC
Digerness/Sadusky	611.8	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	611.80
Fitzpatrick/Bearinger	587.8	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	587.80
Wessenberg/Caputo	578.72	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	578.72
Chan/Howe	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	195	195.00

Selection Pool for 4CCs - Plazas/Fernandez, Martins/Bedard, Liu/Nagy, Kam/O'Shea, Mokhova/Mokhov, Chan/Howe

Karen-W · Dec 9, 2023

Junior Men:

Skater	Nationals *4	GPF/JGPF *3	GP Highest *1.25	GP Average *1.25	JGP Highest *1.25	JGP Average *1.25	CS Highest *1	CS Average *1	Sr/Jr B Highest *.75	Sr/Jr B Average *.75	Prev Season *15	Total	Events
Malinin	0	943.98	388.0875	384.46875	0	0	281.68	281.68	0	0	210	2489.90	CS ACI, SkAm, GPdF, GPF
Martynov	0	550.41	0	0	275.1125	267.54375	197.36	197.36	0	0	0	1487.79	JGP Osaka, JGP Yerevan, CS Warsaw
Broussard	0	0	226.4375	226.4375	0	0	216.1	216.1	130.7325	130.7325	0	1146.54	Cranberry, CS Nebelhorn, CoC
Strommer	0	0	0	0	263.65	256.9625	0	0	139.5825	139.5825	0	799.78	Cranberry, JGP Linz, JGP Gdansk
Fegan	0	0	0	0	232.225	232.225	0	0	133.455	133.455	0	731.36	Cranberry, JGP Yerevan
Kovar	0	0	0	0	207.875	207.875	0	0	139.4625	139.4625	0	694.68	JGP Istanbul, KCI
Sanchez	0	0	0	0	251.8625	250.1	0	0	0	0	0	501.96	JGP Bangkok, JGP Budapest, WYOG
Xie	0	0	0	0	255.1625	240.74375	0	0	0	0	0	495.91	JGP Bangkok, JGP Osaka
Annis	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	140.2125	140.2125	0	280.43	Cranberry
Brooks	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00	KCI*
Klein	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	133.35	133.35	0	266.70	Cranberry
Haugeto	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	128.07	128.07	0	256.14	Cranberry
Monaco	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	124.5825	124.5825	0	249.17	Cranberry
Shinohara	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	120.9525	120.9525	0	241.91	Cranberry
Elano	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	120.165	120.165	0	240.33	Cranberry
Vasquez	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00	KCI*
Lopinto	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00	KCI*
Hildebrandt	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	103.5375	103.5375	0	207.08	Cranberry
Nguyen	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00	KCI*
Azadpour	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Evseev	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Farrington	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Kazanecki	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Luu	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Maravilla	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Perthus	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Rosen	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Rudedenman	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Sedlis	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Tankovic	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Wang	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00

Karen-W · Dec 9, 2023

Junior Pairs:

Skater	Nationals *4	GPF/JGPF *3	GP Highest *1.25	GP Average *1.25	JGP Highest *1.25	JGP Average *1.25	CS Highest *1	CS Average *1	Sr/Jr B Highest *.75	Sr/Jr B Average *.75	Prev Season *15	Total	Events
Flores/Wang	0	436.17	0	0	193.15	188.5875	0	0	0	0	0	817.91	JGP Linz, JGP Istanbul, JGPF
Zheng/Deng	0	0	0	0	133.65	133.65	0	0	0	0	0	267.30	JGP Istanbul
Carpenter/Maravilla	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00	JNIPC*
Fletcher/Felberbaum	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00	JNIPC*
Smith/McPike	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00	WYOG
Park/Griffin	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Williams/Lewer	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00

Coco · Dec 9, 2023

I wonder if the missing Olympic team medal situation has anything to do with the US sending their a team to 4cc's

Karen-W · Dec 9, 2023

Coco said:
I wonder if the missing Olympic team medal situation has anything to do with the US sending their a team to 4cc's

Not one bit. It's not China's fault our team still doesn't have their medals.

Karen-W · Dec 9, 2023

And we have Ice Dance results from Golden Spin!

Senior Ice Dance:

Skater	Sectional *4	GPF *3	GP Highest *1.25	GP Average *1.25	CS Highest *1	CS Average *1	Sr B Highest *.75	Sr B Average *.75	Prev Season *15	Total	Events
Chock/Bates	837.84	664.83	266.2	264.0125	0	0	0	0	330	2362.88	SkAm, GP Espoo, GPF
Pate/Bye	738.32	0	230.725	228.775	191.2	191.2	133.4625	133.4625	0	1847.15	LPIDI, CS ACI, SCI, CoC
Brown/Brown	750.48	0	234.525	228.01875	177.66	177.66	135.495	135.495	0	1839.33	LPIDI, CS Finlandia, SkAm, SCI
Green/Parsons	757.32	0	236.6625	234	168.56	168.56	0	0	150	1715.10	CS Lombardia, SkAm, CoC
McNamara/Spiridonov	671.36	0	209.8	207.55625	167.77	167.77	126.8625	126.8625	0	1677.98	LPIDI, CS Nebelhorn, GPdF, NHK
Carreira/Ponomarenko	755.04	0	235.95	234.6625	191.14	184.525	0	0	75	1676.32	CS Nebelhorn, CS Finlandia, GPdF, GP Espoo
Zingas/Kolesnik	733.28	0	231.2	230.4625	187.28	185.3	0	0	0	1567.52	CS Nepela, SCI, GP Espoo, CS Golden Spin
Bratti/Somerville	733.72	0	229.2875	226.7625	177.66	177.66	0	0	0	1545.09	CS Lombardia, CoC, NHK
Wolfkostin/Tsarevski	742.16	0	0	0	172.88	168.11	0	0	0	1083.15	CS ACI, CS Budapest
Flores/Desyatov	713.44	0	0	0	180.62	180.62	0	0	0	1074.68	CS Golden Spin
Ling/Wein	665.52	0	0	0	0	0	115.3875	115.3875	0	896.30	LPIDI
Koncius/Shchepetov	623.92	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	623.92
Kowar/Schwappach	530.36	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	530.36
Murphy/Levitt	482.68	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	482.68
Hawayek/Baker	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00

Selection Pool for 4CCs - Chock/Bates, Pate/Bye, Brown/Brown, Green/Parsons, McNamara/Spiridonov, Carreira/Ponomarenko, Zingas/Kolesnik, Bratti/Somerville, Hawayek/Baker

Karen-W · Dec 9, 2023

Junior Ice Dance:

Skater	Nationals *4	GPF/JGPF *3	GP Highest *1.25	GP Average *1.25	JGP Highest *1.25	JGP Average *1.25	CS Highest *1	CS Average *1	Sr/Jr B Highest *.75	Sr/Jr B Average *.75	Prev Season *15	Total	Events
Neset/Markelov	0	531.27	0	0	210.5875	209.9875		0	120.9525	120.9525	0	1193.75	LPIDI, JGP Bangkok, JGP Osaka
Peal/Peal	0	0	0	0	194.7875	186.6625	0	0	114.1575	114.1575	0	609.77	LPIDI, JGP Linz, JGP Yerevan
Mullen/Mullen	0	0	0	0	180.225	174.675	0	0	110.145	110.145	0	575.19	LPIDI, JGP Linz, JGP Osaka
Bland/Sperry	0	0	0	0	157.7125	157.7125	0	0	92.46	92.46	0	500.35	LPIDI, JGP Gdansk
Pedersen/Chen	0	433.71	0	0	182.9625	182.90625	0	0	0	0	0	799.58	JGP Linz, JGP Istanbul, JGPF
Cui/Eckert	0	0	0	0	169.0275	169.0275	0	0	0	0	0	338.06	JGP Gdansk
Ilin/Cain	0	0	0	0	168.5125	163.25625	0	0	0	0	0	331.77	JGP Istanbul, JGP Budapest, WYOG
Carhart/Horovyi	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	107.9475	107.9475	0	215.90	LPIDI
Epps/Gilman	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Hauer/Starr	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Li/Le Coq	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Renzi/Lissauer	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00
Yi/Savelev	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.00

2024 Four Continents/Junior Worlds/Worlds US Team Speculation

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