Create Your Own Selection Criteria for 2025-2026

[VGThuy]

Real Olympians don’t audition, they’re offer only. That’s my rule - live with it.

Now let’s take the topic of Kwan and get back to the topic of the thread. How would your BOW criteria deal with injury petitions.

 

[coppertop1]

Real Olympians don’t audition, they’re offer only. That’s my rule - live with it.

Now let’s take the topic of Kwan and get back to the topic of the thread. How would your BOW criteria deal with injury petitions.

I think BOW criteria should only be applied to the front runners, everyone else needs to skate for their spot. If you want a bye you should have to show you will be ready.

 

[jlai]

I am all for that with a few exceptions. Such as someone who is out of Nationals due to a medical bye who was a clear lock for a top 3 placement. (And presumed to be well by the time the Olympics roll around.)


Yep. I see it as USFS would be stupid not to send Nathan if, say, he'd had to withdraw from Nationals due to a negative C0vid test. But does it really matter if they send Jason or Ilia? I expect both will do well enough so why not reward skating well at your most prestigious competition of the year?


That works for me.

I feel like in close cases, I'm fine with USFS committee using discretion. Someone is gonna upset whether it's Ilia or Jason. Might as well have them pick whom they think is right for the team. I mean both fit Group 3, and both are worthy. Either is a reasonable choice.

I remember that year where Weir placed 5th at nationals, and he didn't get sent. There was an uproar at that time about how his grand prix final bronze shuold be taken into account, and he should just represent Russia, yadiyada. But then you have cases where Miner or Ilia skated lights out at nationals and didn't get picked and there is an uproar about not sending those who outdid most skaters in the most recent competition. (and what's the point of nationals) Either way, someone won't be happy, and the committee might as well do what they want if 50% is gonna bitch anyway

Slightly different topic: It happened more than once in recent years that the skater who skated lights out at nationals went to worlds or Olympics and ended up behind the other skater they previously beat in home turf. e.g. Lipinski in 1998, Hughes 2002, Nagasu vs Flatt 2010 Olympics, Abbott vs Lysacek 2009, Abbott vs. Weir and Lysacek 2010, Bradley 2011, Abbott vs. Brown 2014 (of course that didn't happen in Chen era ) So the most recent competition isn't always the best predictor (though combined with other competitions, it tells a trend)

 

[coppertop1]

I don’t think wh9 the third skater in a three person in a three person team really matters unless they're going to be in the Team Event (Wagner in 2014, Rippon in 2018), so why not just go with the podium? If Malinnin in goes to the Olympics and bombs, big deal. It's a learning curve.

In some cases, granting a Medical Bye is a no-brainer (Medvedeva in 2018). Maybe the question is should a skater or team not in contention for a medal get a Bye?

 

[becca]

I don’t think wh9 the third skater in a three person in a three person team really matters unless they're going to be in the Team Event (Wagner in 2014, Rippon in 2018), so why not just go with the podium? If Malinnin in goes to the Olympics and bombs, big deal. It's a learning curve.

In some cases, granting a Medical Bye is a no-brainer (Medvedeva in 2018). Maybe the question is should a skater or team not in contention for a medal get a Bye?

Yeah I don’t have a problem at all with the idea of Byes or body of work. I just take strong issue in circumstances where we aren’t talking about a medal contender.

I also am taking issue here because it’s not like Jason had an in unusually bad skate. He skated around how Jason usually skates. It’s just Ilias technical content blew him out the water.

No one is saying if this was in international panel Jason would have come on top. I think both would have scored lower but that if anything the margin would have been greater.

This feels like the USFSA doing this as a lifetime achievement award and all so Jason can place 7.

 

[coppertop1]

Yeah I don’t have a problem at all with the idea of Byes or body of work. I just take strong issue in circumstances where we aren’t talking about a medal contender.

I also am taking issue here because it’s not like Jason had an in unusually bad skate. He skated around how Jason usually skates. It’s just Ilias technical content blew him out the water.

No one is saying if this was in international panel Jason would have come on top. I think both would have scored lower but that if anything the margin would have been greater.

This feels like the USFSA doing this as a lifetime achievement award and all so Jason can place 7.

Is Jason going to be in the TE? Or is the USFSA going with Vincent

 

[Fadeevfanboy]

Yes*, and by her not having to do it, the author certainly didn't mean just naming her on the team either. He wanted her to compete at 4CC or do a public session for the public to see for themselves (unofficially) as well. From what I remember, Kwan suggested her nomination on the team be conditioned on officials ascertaining her readiness to compete.

Anyway, I'm criticizing the headline, not the author (unless he wrote the headline) because I know oftentimes, the authors of the articles don't write their own headlines and his article didn't actually state she wasn't a "real" Olympian. That's the only issue I have...other than this quote:


First off, Kwan did have jumps and athleticism. Sure she wasn't Tonya, but Kwan set a high standard of clean and "complete" programs that her competitors had trouble keeping up with. Whether or not you thought she should have placed lower, and no matter how you can criticize her for the fact that she could have been better prepared and not thrown so many points away with better element construction, she did place 4th at her first ever IJS - beating the eventual Olympic champion who placed 9th.

* I don't know why you have to question me by asking if "I read the article".

I am also not sure who people think she shouldn't have gotten a bye over. The U.S field was not that strong this year at all. The fact people like Bebe Liang and Katy Taylor were in legit contention for the team, and Emily Hughes, the far less talented of the Hughes sisters, wound up going, says it all. 2002 was the last ever (atleast up to now and for the forseeable future) of the glory years of U.S women with 4 or 5 medal contenders and only 3 making the team.

Had Kwan competed, even a bit injured, she most likely is the 2nd highest U.S finisher (Meissner was only 6th), and almost no chance she finishes behind Emily Hughes who replaced her.

 

[Karen-W]

Is Jason going to be in the TE? Or is the USFSA going with Vincent

Well, given that the USFS ranks the skaters within each discipline and Vincent clearly should be ranked ahead of Jason (Priority Group 2 vs Priority Group 3 for Olympic Team Selection, beat him at Nats, only skater to beat Chen in the last 3 seasons), the assumption is that Vincent will be offered second right of refusal for the TE behind Nathan and I'd be shocked if Vincent passes on a certain Olympic medal (especially since he's the only man on the team without one already).

 

[coppertop1]

I think the biggest issue with any selection criteria is when it starts to look like the Federation is playing favourites, hence the controversy about J/R who Skate Canada propped and hyped since day one. So, the biggest question is how to avoid it?

 

[attyfan]

IMO, it might be very difficult to determine whether a specific skater is or is not a medal contender. For example, after a melt-down at 1993 Worlds and a knee injury, the idea of Nancy Kerrigan as a medal contender might not have appeared all that clear. I think it better to ask whether the skater needing a medical bye is more or less likely to medal than the skater being replaced ... it would have been a foregone conclusion that Nancy was more likely to medal than Nat-silver-medalist Kwan.

 

[coppertop1]

IMO, it might be very difficult to determine whether a specific skater is or is not a medal contender. For example, after a melt-down at 1993 Worlds and a knee injury, the idea of Nancy Kerrigan as a medal contender might not have appeared all that clear. I think it better to ask whether the skater needing a medical bye is more or less likely to medal than the skater being replaced ... it would have been a foregone conclusion that Nancy was more likely to medal than Nat-silver-medalist Kwan.

And then there's the Liz Manleys and Paul Wileys who have the breakthrough when no ones was expecting it

 

[VGThuy]

And then there's the Liz Manleys and Paul Wileys who have the breakthrough when no ones was expecting it

The difference though is that Manley won her nationals and Paul Wylie beat Mark Mitchell at 1992 Nationals (now whether he should have is a different question). It seems both were below Todd Eldridge in terms of team selection probably since he won a world bronze in 1991.

 

[Fadeevfanboy]

I think Nancy clearly and beyond doubt was a medal contender going into the 94 Games, and in fact a strong gold medal contender, and before the attack despite being 5th at the 93 worlds. I mean 1 of the people ahead of her at those worlds was Sato and who expected Sato to medal in Lillehammer? Nobody pretty much. The only contenders were Bonaly, Kerrigan, Chen, and Baiul. Sato, Chouinard, Harding, and maybe Szewcenko and Witt major long shots for a medal only. The British bookies had her 3rd favorite behind Baiul and Bonaly, but not far behind either, and far above Chen who they had 4th. Many other experts had her as 1st or 2nd favorite. One bad event did not mean her status was not very high, and she had beaten nearly all the skaters at the pre Olympic event in Hamar.

Baby Kwan would not have come top 10 at those Games probably, when she was only 8th at worlds in a much poorer field (where Sato won). It would have been great for their most promising youngster to get the experience, but silly to send her over major gold medal contender Kerrigan. Similarily I feel not sending Kwan originally in 2006 would have been silly, and fully agreed with that choice too. I do wish once Harding became a prime suspect for the attack on Kerrigan she just graciously withdraw and avoided the circus we got, and baby Kwan skated instead. She still probably placed higher than Kwan would have, but she should have graciously stepped down for obvious reasons at that point. Like her ex husband said in an interview from jail, they all couldn't believe she had the audacity to skate at the Games at that point. She had to know there was no way in hell they were going to let her medal at that point anyway, even if she skated flawlessly with a triple axel, so what was the point. I bet CBS is happy she competed though as the circus was a ratings boomer.

92 mens? Well I feel Mitchell was super screwed at Nationals (like he is always super screwed) and probably should have even won those Nationals over Bowman. As it was and his coming 3rd, Elredge had to get the bye over any US man unless it was proven he was too injured to skate at the Games. I think politically they just made sure to send the team they were always going to send anyway.

 

[tony]

I think no matter what the criteria is, there's always going to be some wiggle room just 'because' or because the rules are open-ended. I don't mind Skate Canada picking James/Radford because they have the highest international scores this season- but if that's the most important criteria, it should be written as such. But their 6 criteria are very, very open to interpretation. If Worlds placement and Nationals placement don't count as much because they either A) are not a strong placement or B) the other skater/team wasn't in said events to compare, then make mention that those don't hold as much, if any, weight. They also needed to be clearer about what the 'other criteria' meant and how they determined if J/R were capable of finishing in the top two flights - is that based on their SP ranking in world standings, their best scores this year compared to Worlds last year, their overall ranking this season amongst all teams in the Olympics/Worlds? Who knows, and your guess is as good as the committee that decides things.

I think the USFS took a step in the right direction with what they did this year, because in 2018 I swear that the then-President tried to say the criteria was in place for potential medalists- we all know Rippon was not. I still believe that Malinin should've gone to the Olympics simply because both skaters were in the same tier, there wasn't a clear-cut reasoning of how they would be ranked in those tiers, and in the only head-to-head he had with Brown, he was not only a top 3 medalist, but also beat him by a decent margin.

But then I think about the Rudy Galindo situation. Super rare and may never happen again, but Rudy did not have the international results in 1996 nor did he have the Nationals result the season before (I think he was 8th). There was a prior rule in place about the National Champion getting a World/Olympic spot but I believe it hasn't existed for a while. What if the US only had 1 spot or even 2 spots? Send him? Of course, these days he'd have to get the TES minimums internationally anyways.

I like what Spain did this season, sending their teams to three direct competitions - two internationals and Nationals itself. The USFS couldn't have really done that with Brown and Malinin competing on different fall circuits, but I still think the JGPF being canceled hurt Malinin a lot.

And of course, for many fans it all depends on how well-liked said skaters are and/or if they have good personalities and good programs.

Regarding Nancy, I think she had a few things going in her favor. She won Piruetten on Olympic ice a few months earlier, ahead of Chouinard, Lu, Bonaly, Szewczenko, and Sato. Those were all top 10 names at the previous Worlds. I also think the fact that the USFS went with Ervin and Kwiatkowski in 1993 (and it backfiring, pretty much) made them want to pick a more reliable (even if unreliable ) skater. And mostly, of course they wanted Kerrigan on the team. The Olympic SP is one of the most-watched broadcasts of all-time on US television for a reason. The drama!

 

[Seerek]

And then there's the Liz Manleys and Paul Wileys who have the breakthrough when no ones was expecting it

Not sure Manley was that unexpected, considering she was 5th and 4th in the 2 prior Worlds before the Olympics, placing top 3 in one of the segments both years.

 

[Fadeevfanboy]

Not sure Manley was that unexpected, considering she was 5th and 4th in the 2 prior Worlds before the Olympics, placing top 3 in one of the segments both years.

She wasn't as unexpected as Wylie but she was somewhat unexpected in that she had a well earned reputation as a "choker" when it mattered. 87 worlds being the biggest. She had a huge chance of the gold. Unlike Calgary she only had to mathematically win the long program and she wins overall. Her St. Ivel performance would have almost undoubtably won it, even with Witt having her best ever LP. Instead she blew up and didn't even medal. At Skate Canada that fall she had a great shot to beat Thomas after winning figures, but fell in the SP, still led going into the LP and fell apart again, losing by 1 judge. She bombed the LP at her own Nationals but had no competition. And for years before that was a super inconsistent competitor. She had a great LP at the 86 worlds when she was down in the standings, wasn't in contention, and was still a little known.

Trenary even said in her interview between short and long in Calgary she was confident in still moving up to bronze, since she expected both Manley and Ivanova to fall apart in the final long program to come.