2024 Four Continents/Junior Worlds/Worlds US Team Speculation

Stephanie

Well-Known Member
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2,748
I expect the USFS will, for the most part, follow Nats results.

Men: 1) Torgy, 2) Naumov, 3) Ma
Women: 1) Ziegler, 2) Seo, 3) Andrews
Pairs: 1) Liu/Nagy, 2) Martins/Bedard, 3) Mokhovs
Dance: 1) Green/Parsons, 2) Pate/Bye, 3) Zingas/Kolesnik

It would be one thing if ZingKol were moving the needle internationally over GreenP and outscoring them by a decent margin as Torgy has done over Naumov, but they aren't, so GreenP will get the 1st alternate nod and PateBye the 2nd alternate spot.

With women, I think the Jr Worlds assignments tell us all we need to know. Never ever underestimate Tammy Gambill's ability to get her skaters opportunities. Ziegler proved she should be 1st alternate but after the way Everhardt got bumped to #2 for Jr Worlds, I expect Seo to get the #2 spot and, at that point, it's easy to just finish up with Andrews who was the next highest finish at Nats who is age-eligible and has the Mins. The USFS isn't sending anyone out to get the TES mins who doesn't have them and if they were hot on Everhardt, they'd have at least gotten her into Challenge Cup (either as a participant or as a reserve if the field is currently full like they have with Martins/Bedard).
FWIW the Challenge Cup entries were due before nationals, which I assume is one of the main reasons they’re not sending anyone this year.

That being said, I really thought Everhardt deserved a senior B/Challenger (aside from Cranberry, which was super early) this past fall after doing pretty well in her summer competitions.
 

Aceon6

Wrangling the duvet into the cover
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30,362
That being said, I really thought Everhardt deserved a senior B/Challenger (aside from Cranberry, which was super early) this past fall after doing pretty well in her summer competitions.
I hope Team Malinin pushes to get her some Challengers in the fall. We see where we are with Tammy’s skaters, and there’s not much hope of a full rotation in the bunch. If rotations matter, that is.
 

jlai

Question everything
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14,038
Before we go wuzrobbing any young skaters any further, I think it may be good to remember these young skaters may be reading this thread. If they read "so and so deserves the spot I got but my coach's politiking is what got me the spot", they may interpret this as "despite my international and domestic results", I don't deserve much unless my coach does the campaign for me.

I don't know if I want any young skater being discussed reading this. and all these skaters being discussed have results deserving our support and encouragement.
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
42,225
Before we go wuzrobbing any young skaters any further, I think it may be good to remember these young skaters may be reading this thread. If they read "so and so deserves the spot I got but my coach's politiking is what got me the spot", they may interpret this as "despite my international and domestic results", I don't deserve much unless my coach does the campaign for me.

I don't know if I want any young skater being discussed reading this. and all these skaters being discussed have results deserving our support and encouragement.
Oh, for pity's sake... I am quite sure that all of these young skaters are exposed to similar thoughts and opinions by people at their own rinks. What is being said on a random internet forum is hardly the first time nor will it be the last time they hear these kind of comments. Perhaps their time would be better spent improving their jump rotations.
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
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26,140
Before we go wuzrobbing any young skaters any further, I think it may be good to remember these young skaters may be reading this thread. If they read "so and so deserves the spot I got but my coach's politiking is what got me the spot", they may interpret this as "despite my international and domestic results", I don't deserve much unless my coach does the campaign for me.

I don't know if I want any young skater being discussed reading this. and all these skaters being discussed have results deserving our support and encouragement.
If young, competitive skaters aren't prepared to handle criticism, they shouldn't be reading posts here. That is their responsibility, not ours.
 

jlai

Question everything
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14,038
If young, competitive skaters aren't prepared to handle criticism, they shouldn't be reading posts here. That is their responsibility, not ours.
There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but I don't see a convincing reason the alternate spots need to be different. That means analyzing international results, domestic results, marks each skater has gotten. There is nothing on paper that puts one so far ahead of another.
And why dwell on the alternates? Chances are these are moot anyway if they are not going.
 

tony

Throwing the (rule)book at them
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18,218
Before we go wuzrobbing any young skaters any further, I think it may be good to remember these young skaters may be reading this thread. If they read "so and so deserves the spot I got but my coach's politiking is what got me the spot", they may interpret this as "despite my international and domestic results", I don't deserve much unless my coach does the campaign for me.

I don't know if I want any young skater being discussed reading this. and all these skaters being discussed have results deserving our support and encouragement.
If the ‘young skaters’ managed to find their way to FSU, they’ve almost certainly navigated through comments on ISU IG and other skating-related accounts, as well as Twitter.
 

Aceon6

Wrangling the duvet into the cover
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30,362
If the ‘young skaters’ managed to find their way to FSU, they’ve almost certainly navigated through comments on ISU IG and other skating-related accounts, as well as Twitter.
IG, XTwit, and TikTok comments tend to be much harsher than anything posted here and likely to be taken more seriously than stuff posted by skating fans their grandparent’s age or older. As for “deserved the assignment”, I guarantee that the club chatter is even more harsh.
 

her grace

Team Guignard/Fabbri
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7,016
It's very clear from this year's US Nationals that politics is something they will need to pay attention to if they want to succeed.
I definitely think politics matters, I think I even mentioned politics in an earlier post in this thread :saint:, but for ladies' skating, I also think that USFS has a preferred style of skating that Gambil's skaters do well. The USFS has a long tradition of underrotating champions (see, e.g., Liu, Chen, Wagner, Nagasu, Hughes) and so historically, USFS rewards carriage and line (see, e.g., Levito and Cohen) and ice princess-y packaging. I mean, it's a choice for USFS to continually have their callers not see technical problems in jumps, which then advantage skaters with these other qualities, everything else being equal.
 

jlai

Question everything
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14,038
I definitely think politics matters, I think I even mentioned politics in an earlier post in this thread :saint:, but for ladies' skating, I also think that USFS has a preferred style of skating that Gambil's skaters do well. The USFS has a long tradition of underrotating champions (see, e.g., Liu, Chen, Wagner, Nagasu, Hughes) and so historically, USFS rewards carriage and line (see, e.g., Levito and Cohen) and ice princess-y packaging. I mean, it's a choice for USFS to continually have their callers not see technical problems in jumps, which then advantage skaters with these other qualities, everything else being equal.
That I do agree. when someone is "favored", it may not be favoritism; it may be that a coach knows how to "teach to the test", for lack of a better term; or that they know how to "check the boxes".

USFS judging needs to be fixed for sure.

I honestly do not see anything in the selection criteria that makes me think any alternates definitely outshines the other so much that they are robbed of anything. (feel free to present statistics if one doesn't agree)

If you want to talk robbery I can go on with more obvious examples in the past.
 

her grace

Team Guignard/Fabbri
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7,016
Any predictions/thoughts on senior world alternates? I'd do

men: 1) Torgashev 2) Naumov 3) Ma
women: 1) Ziegler 2) Everhardt 3) Lin-Gracey
pairs: 1) Liu/Nagy 2) Martins/Bedard 3) Mokhova/Mokhov
ice dance 1) TBD 2) TBD 3) Pate/Bye
Finishing up what I would pick:

Ice dance: 1) Zingas/Kolesnik 2) Green/Parsons 3) Pate/Bye
 

Belsornia

I bite because I like it
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3,824
I think I'd go for: 1) Zingas/Kolesnik 2) Pate/Bye 3) Browns.

Green/Parsons could probably do with some time off to deal with the injuries they mentioned to Golden Skate. If not, taking a break and resetting so they can come out storming at the early challengers next season sounds more beneficial than spending another 6 weeks practicing these programmes which clearly aren't working for them just in case they get a call up from the reserve list.
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
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42,225
At this point, I'd probably go 1) Pate/Bye, 2) Zingas/Kolesnik, 3) Green/Parsons. That rewards PateBye for doing better than ZingKol at Nats (and for scoring better than them internationally this fall), and it also rewards ZingKol for out-skating GreenP at 4CCs and doing slightly better this fall. It also gives GreenP time to get healed from their injuries and move past a set of programs that haven't worked at all this season.
 

Rhumba d’Amour

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279
At this point, I'd probably go 1) Pate/Bye, 2) Zingas/Kolesnik, 3) Green/Parsons. That rewards PateBye for doing better than ZingKol at Nats (and for scoring better than them internationally this fall), and it also rewards ZingKol for out-skating GreenP at 4CCs and doing slightly better this fall. It also gives GreenP time to get healed from their injuries and move past a set of programs that haven't worked at all this season.
Really hard choice there. I can’t see sending that version of Poly Dances Pate/Bye have to Worlds (though I do like their RD), but then again, Zingas/K are skating to a Disney cartoon :)

I would absolutely give Torgashev first alternate in Men’s, though, and Ziegler first alternate in Women. Both have earned that (usually honorary) recognition.
 

peibeck

Simply looking
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31,557
At this point, I'd probably go 1) Pate/Bye, 2) Zingas/Kolesnik, 3) Green/Parsons.

While it's unlikely the alternates will go, I'd certainly put Z/K first after their good job at 4CC and fluke errors at Nationals, then G/P if USFS is truly considering the last two years worth of results. Just my two cents....
 

Stephanie

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2,748

Jonas

Active Member
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79
If this season is a wrap for Sarah Everhardt, I hope that she starts working on a 3Axel and/or 4toe! I could aslo see her upgrading her SP combo to 3loop-3loop!

Your thoughts...
 

Aceon6

Wrangling the duvet into the cover
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3L/3L typically looks small on the ice, doesn’t flow that well for most, and is really subject to lots of calls so is risky until the skater is firmly established as a consistent rotator. If she favors it, it might be better saved for the Oly season.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love! Not LatinX!
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23,264
If this season is a wrap for Sarah Everhardt, I hope that she starts working on a 3Axel and/or 4toe! I could aslo see her upgrading her SP combo to 3loop-3loop!

Your thoughts...
I have only one word for Sarah: Interpretation (e.g., musicality)

I agree w Jonás on improving her 3-3 combo toolkit.
 

AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)

The Harem is now taking applications 😝
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13,375
3L/3L typically looks small on the ice, doesn’t flow that well for most, and is really subject to lots of calls so is risky until the skater is firmly established as a consistent rotator. If she favors it, it might be better saved for the Oly season.

Totally craine was constantly dinged for it
 

toddlj

Well-Known Member
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2,133
Anyone have any idea why they are waiting until 2/8 to announce alternates for Worlds?
 

Wyliefan

Ubering juniors against my will
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45,794
We have Worlds alternates.

"Alternates: Team USA for #WorldFigure Men: alt 1 Maxim Naumov, 2 Andrew Torgashev, 3 Jimmy Ma Pairs: alt 1 Chelsea Liu/Balazs Nagy, 2 Isabelle Martins/Ryan Bedard (pending minimums)

"Alternates: Team USA for #WorldFigure Women: alt 1 Ava Ziegler, 2 Elyce Lin-Gracey, 3 Starr Andrews Dance: alt 1 Caroline Green/Michael Parsons, 2 Eva Pate/Logan Bye, 3 Emilea Zingas/Vadym Kolesnik"


 

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