U.S. Ladies [#24]: Starr-Ting Order/Detailed Classification

[DimaToe]

Then explain to me what your phrase means?
".. why should Liu be pushed to a new coach? Should she go to someone like Gambill and Tom Z who are delivering those world medalists non stop? Beyond the skater, it’s time to give unproven coaches a chance and we might be pleasantly surprised."?

It reads to me as following: One should not immediately look for a coach who delivers medalists non-stop, because it leaves less accomplished coaches without a chance to prove them selves. In other words, take a chance with your career, to help a career of another.....

Tinami, i said that with sarcasm. Pointing out that the “top” U.S. coaches were not delivering results. So it wouldn’t hurt to let a young skater develop with their current coach and go from there...

 

[Tinami Amori]

Tinami, i said that with sarcasm. Pointing out that the “top” U.S. coaches were not delivering results. So it wouldn’t hurt to let a young skater develop with their current coach and go from there...

Well..... you could have said so from the start...

 

[Carolla5501]

Do NOT do this. This is super creepy. If I had a 12 year old daughter and I got a letter like this, I'd want to run for the hills.

Instead you’d rather get a message like you would get on here that says. “ I know your daughter will never succeed because I’m an internet expert”. LOL

 

[livetoskate]

Just wanted to add that I'm pretty sure Alysa's coach's former coach was Christy Ness (Kristi Yamaguchi's coach). I used to skate at the same rink in Oakland when Laura was a competitive skater. I recall her having strong basics and big jumps. So even though Lipetsky isn't a well-known coach, she has plenty of knowledge to pass down to Alysa.

 

[Sylvia]

Just wanted to add that I'm pretty sure Alysa's coach's former coach was Christy Ness (Kristi Yamaguchi's coach). I used to skate at the same rink in Oakland when Laura was a competitive skater. I recall her having strong basics and big jumps. So even though Lipetsky isn't a well-known coach, she has plenty of knowledge to pass down to Alysa.

Wendy Burge (1975 U.S. silver medalist who finished 6th at the 1976 Winter Olympics) was Lipetsky's coach at 1995 Nationals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDunhTiN92o

 

[Dobre]

I can think of three local kids who died playing sports. Two were in basketball, which many people don't think of as a life-threatening sport; but I think in at least one of the scenarios it was an athlete with the same heart issue as Florence Griffith Joiner. Both of those kids were teenagers. The youngest was in motorcross. I know that in the latter case the parents never regretted letting their child compete. They knew the danger existed, but they also knew it was their child's passion.

 

[Japanfan]

^^ She's 13, she's still a kid and kids get carried away pretty easily with their enthusiasm. When she reaches seniors in January she'll get a first hand lesson that jumps are great but they're not everything. If and when she gets to the Junior Grand Prix and starts winning medals consistently, then her dreams of being the best will have more substance. But there's no harm for her to plan ahead.

Enthusiasm is sort of a prerequisite for competing as an athlete. Realism is not always an athlete's best friend - an athlete must aspire high in order to deliver a PB or move up the rankings.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Just wanted to add that I'm pretty sure Alysa's coach's former coach was Christy Ness (Kristi Yamaguchi's coach). I used to skate at the same rink in Oakland when Laura was a competitive skater. I recall her having strong basics and big jumps. So even though Lipetsky isn't a well-known coach, she has plenty of knowledge to pass down to Alysa.

imo, so far she is doing a very good job, in technical and artistic.

 

[MIsty Blades/Skate Mom]

I feel that during the post Michelle Kwan era, we stopped producing a decent pool of female skaters who did well in the Senior International Elite levels. We did have SOME successes, but we haven't had a US female Senior World Champion since Kimmie Meissner in 2006. Ashley Wagner was our last World Silver medalist in 2016.

In the US, I feel like we praise the "artiste" and heckle the athlete. Unfortunately, that led to a huge drought in female US world medalists. We also tend to play favorites and send those we like instead of those who will win. In the end, the athlete wins on the world stage.

To win the big competitions, I do think, we need good technicians like Alysa Liu for the US to earn International medals.

I thought it was interesting, per the article posted, Alysa has to talk herself out of thinking she is the best in the world. Hopefully an adult will point out that most recently, Nagasu had a 3 axle and didn't win Nationals, Worlds, or Olympics because of it.

"I’m like, ‘Omigod, I have a triple Axel, and not a lot of people in the world have it.’ Then I tell myself, ‘Don’t think you’re the best in the world. You’re not the best yet.’”

Hopefully she does not grow a sense of entitlement, which seemed to happen to some of the US ladies who were overly hyped and experienced success very young when they were teeny tiny tweens pre growth spurts.

 

[Marco]

In the US, I feel like we praise the "artiste" and heckle the athlete.

Any examples in mind? I simply don't recall much pure athletes coming out of the US at all since Kwan (your point of reference). Liang, Flatt, Nagasu, Zawadzki and Hicks were supposed to be the more athletic ones but none really consistently delivered nationally and internationally to matter much (Nagasu did, but much later). Gold would have been the star and the US Fed strongly promoted her along with Wagner back in 2013 but we all know what happened since.

I simply don't know of any non-artist that the US Fed was purposely holding back?

 

[MIsty Blades/Skate Mom]

Even though the skaters you mentioned had a lot of potential, it seemed like the USFSA seemed ready to drop one of these skaters if there was a more artistic skater in the wings. Nagusu and Flatt had a lot of potential around the 2009 - 2012 era, however, USFSA was on the lookout for an artiste. During this time USFSA had their eye on Czisny and Wagner for the 2010 Olympics. Czisny was having a good Fall 2009 season, but a bad season ending in 2010. Furthermore, USFSA wanted Cohen to come out of retirement to go to the 2010 Olympics instead of Flatt or Nagasu. Cohen once again underperformed in the LP. Wagner was close, but Czisny also underperformed at US Nationals.

At that time, I felt that USFSA didn't like Zawadzki very much. She was injured in 2012, and post-injury, she didn't perform well.

By 2014, USFSA was high on Gold and Wagner. Even when Wagner finished behind Nagasu at Nationals, USFSA chose Wagner over Nagasu to go to the Olympics. Polina was a nice addition to the US team at the time.

By 2018, we had Bradie Tennell, Karen Chen, Wagner and Nagasu in the mix for the Olympics. Gracie Gold withdrew from competition, Tennell exploded onto the scene, Karen Chen broke through in 2018, Wagner had a good quad and Nagasu was improving close to the Olympics. For the US Olympic team, Wagner had many supporters, and it still seemed like Nagasu needed to campaign and fight to make the team. It was in 2017-18 where is also seemed like Wagner was starting to rest on her laurels. Even though she finished fourth again at Nationals, her body of work wasn't enough to save here.

Hopegully, Alysia Liu and her peers will bring the US back to the podium.

Any examples in mind? I simply don't recall much pure athletes coming out of the US at all since Kwan (your point of reference). Liang, Flatt, Nagasu, Zawadzki and Hicks were supposed to be the more athletic ones but none really consistently delivered nationally and internationally to matter much (Nagasu did, but much later). Gold would have been the star and the US Fed strongly promoted her along with Wagner back in 2013 but we all know what happened since.

I simply don't know of any non-artist that the US Fed was purposely holding back?

 

[UGG]

I'm not saying that fans shouldn't post about technique on a fan forum. Post away! We can all learn something here.

What I am saying is that the likelihood that skaters or coaches will learn something about skating technique that they don't already know from fan posts is very low.

And therefore that we should not think of the posts here as a responsibility to the skaters and coaches, without which the skaters could not succeed.

Any poster who knows enough about skating technique to solve skaters' technique problems should be out there coaching rather than (just) posting. (Yes, it would be possible to do both.)

Do people here really believe coaches are reading their posts?!? I kind of find that hard to believe. Any forum regarding sports has similar posts- fans posting their opinions in regards to what the athletes, teams, coaches, etc..could do differently. Go check out an NFL forum

 

[concorde]

Any examples in mind?

Have you even attended any Regionals competitions? There "clean" tends to win over difficulty.

If a skater has a program with lower difficulty (more the artiste), then it is easier to go clean (note I am not saying easy). Add some bigger jumps and you have greater potential for things to go wrong. Some may say that skaters can get the "+1 bonus" for the bigger jumps and that should be enough to compensate for the fall. The reality is that fall gets a -5 GOE, plus a fall deduction, and a hit to the PCS.

Regionals is a great test of competition nerves for the all skaters. But odds are the technical skaters are being to penalized for a fall on the big jumps the artiste are not even attempting. If the technical skaters suddenly get those nerves under control, then they become a "newbie" and get penalized under reputation scoring.

Regionals is the pipeline that will eventually produce those Team USA skaters.

 

[VGThuy]

People forget that things did not seem that bad for U.S. ladies after 2006. We had a string of World junior champions, took the entire Junior Worlds podium once, and had a lot of promising ladies competitors. However, people who saw the skating saw that skaters that were scoring high in juniors may have problems with their jump technique and whatever else once they hit seniors and competed against the likes of Yuna Kim who had stellar jumping technique and basics. Even from 2010-2016, one could argue that the American ladies were not that far behind and within striking distance of medals and it was just performance-related issues that prevented it. The make-up of the ladies competition now isn't what it was then, and we thought we could keep having skaters like Alissa Czisny with her technique win the GPF (in 2011) because the field was the way it was.

Russia (Eteri), Japan, and South Korea proved it works to be forward thinking, and their level of basics (I'd argue some skaters receiving high PCS for things like skating skills are undeserved but they look like champions so what are judges to do?) leave the U.S. ladies dead in the water. Canada even produced two women (Osmond/Daleman) who are above the U.S. ladies in the important foundations of skating that if they go clean they'll beat almost any of our American skaters. Of course, Daleman is having her own issues right now and Osmond wasn't always consistent, but they have the goods to do so if they rise to the occasion and have done so in the past.

I do think there were some exciting skaters in the past few years that looked great because they seemed to bridge that gap somewhat. Gracie Gold skated fast and big. Despite her wooden carriage, you can see by her big jumps and speed and ice coverage that she also had the goods to be a world medalist or even world champion circa 2016. I think there was too much pressure on her since she was one of the few. I think Hicks won a few international medals that made some people excited because she really has world-level speed and power. However, she has major consistency issues and doesn't have the competitor's mindset. I think Karen Chen was also one who had that power too with big jumps and a good level of artistry, but it seems there are tons of behind-the-scene stuff that is getting in the way of her being able to just compete without a worried mind...also those jumps are fodder for URs with that landing technique, even before the rule change making it even stricter, thus undermining her ability to score well. Ashley Wagner improved her skating so much and became such a performer that she forced people to respect her and got a World silver out of it, but and I know this is unpopular to say, Wagner is the type of skater that relies on others to mess up due to her own UR issues (that got worse by 2018) and being behind when it comes to skating skills/transitions/speed/power and we saw how that happened when the field had more depth and more skaters rising up to the occasion.

 

[UGG]

Ashley could have medaled at worlds in 2012 and 2015 if she didn’t take herself out of contention in the short program. Gracie too could have medaled in 2014, 2015, and 2016. If they had skated clean at those competitions and medaled at worlds, US Ladies would not seem as grim.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Even though the skaters you mentioned had a lot of potential, it seemed like the USFSA seemed ready to drop one of these skaters if there was a more artistic skater in the wings. Nagusu and Flatt had a lot of potential around the 2009 - 2012 era, however, USFSA was on the lookout for an artiste. During this time USFSA had their eye on Czisny and Wagner for the 2010 Olympics. Czisny was having a good Fall 2009 season, but a bad season ending in 2010. Furthermore, USFSA wanted Cohen to come out of retirement to go to the 2010 Olympics instead of Flatt or Nagasu. Cohen once again underperformed in the LP. Wagner was close, but Czisny also underperformed at US Nationals.

At that time, I felt that USFSA didn't like Zawadzki very much. She was injured in 2012, and post-injury, she didn't perform well.

By 2014, USFSA was high on Gold and Wagner. Even when Wagner finished behind Nagasu at Nationals, USFSA chose Wagner over Nagasu to go to the Olympics. Polina was a nice addition to the US team at the time.

By 2018, we had Bradie Tennell, Karen Chen, Wagner and Nagasu in the mix for the Olympics. Gracie Gold withdrew from competition, Tennell exploded onto the scene, Karen Chen broke through in 2018, Wagner had a good quad and Nagasu was improving close to the Olympics. For the US Olympic team, Wagner had many supporters, and it still seemed like Nagasu needed to campaign and fight to make the team. It was in 2017-18 where is also seemed like Wagner was starting to rest on her laurels. Even though she finished fourth again at Nationals, her body of work wasn't enough to save here.

Hopegully, Alysia Liu and her peers will bring the US back to the podium.

UM.....You do know you have made this up out of whole cloth?

Lower difficulty in content in no way guarantees a more artistic performance. Michelle Kwan, btw, was considered to be a jumping bean when she came on the scene. Artistry came later. Many skaters have to develop the artistic side of their skating as they grow.....in large measure because they become more mature.

As to dropping skaters for a more artistic skater....I don't think so. US is starved for competitors who can technically lay it down when it counts.

Nothing like revisionist history.

 

[vesperholly]

Hopegully, Alysia Liu and her peers will bring the US back to the podium.

Who are her peers? I don't see a lot of insane talent coming out of juniors in the US at the moment.

 

[Bulletsdad]

Who are her peers? I don't see a lot of insane talent coming out of juniors in the US at the moment.

Possibly Ting Cui....but she doesn't have Alysa's difficulty or consistency at this moment. She is ahead of Alysa artistically; but she's also three years older.

 

[olympic]

People forget that things did not seem that bad for U.S. ladies after 2006. We had a string of World junior champions, took the entire Junior Worlds podium once, and had a lot of promising ladies competitors. However, people who saw the skating saw that skaters that were scoring high in juniors may have problems with their jump technique and whatever else once they hit seniors and competed against the likes of Yuna Kim who had stellar jumping technique and basics. Even from 2010-2016, one could argue that the American ladies were not that far behind and within striking distance of medals and it was just performance-related issues that prevented it. The make-up of the ladies competition now isn't what it was then, and we thought we could keep having skaters like Alissa Czisny with her technique win the GPF (in 2011) because the field was the way it was.

Russia (Eteri), Japan, and South Korea proved it works to be forward thinking, and their level of basics (I'd argue some skaters receiving high PCS for things like skating skills are undeserved but they look like champions so what are judges to do?) leave the U.S. ladies dead in the water. Canada even produced two women (Osmond/Daleman) who are above the U.S. ladies in the important foundations of skating that if they go clean they'll beat almost any of our American skaters. Of course, Daleman is having her own issues right now and Osmond wasn't always consistent, but they have the goods to do so if they rise to the occasion and have done so in the past.

I do think there were some exciting skaters in the past few years that looked great because they seemed to bridge that gap somewhat. Gracie Gold skated fast and big. Despite her wooden carriage, you can see by her big jumps and speed and ice coverage that she also had the goods to be a world medalist or even world champion circa 2016. I think there was too much pressure on her since she was one of the few. I think Hicks won a few international medals that made some people excited because she really has world-level speed and power. However, she has major consistency issues and doesn't have the competitor's mindset. I think Karen Chen was also one who had that power too with big jumps and a good level of artistry, but it seems there are tons of behind-the-scene stuff that is getting in the way of her being able to just compete without a worried mind...also those jumps are fodder for URs with that landing technique, even before the rule change making it even stricter, thus undermining her ability to score well. Ashley Wagner improved her skating so much and became such a performer that she forced people to respect her and got a World silver out of it, but and I know this is unpopular to say, Wagner is the type of skater that relies on others to mess up due to her own UR issues (that got worse by 2018) and being behind when it comes to skating skills/transitions/speed/power and we saw how that happened when the field had more depth and more skaters rising up to the occasion.

I analyze the post 2006 US ladies era a lot. The US was primed to be competitive if not winners. I knew with Mao and Yu Na fully graduated to the senior level that it would be tough to be on top but I figured that Kimmie and possibly Emily would be in the fight for a bronze at Worlds, especially with Kimmie being a world champion. However, Kimmie’s technique failed when her body changed and Emily’s skating career just went way sideways.

The new juniors, commonly referred to as the class of 08 (Mirai, Caroline, Rachael, Ashley) all showed some promise coming up behind Kimmie and Emily but each of them suffered from various forms of nerves and bad technique. Then, there was Alyssa.

Ashley with Gracie made small breakthroughs after Vancouver but as was stated, both missed multiple opportunities to medal at Worlds. Ashley really ran out of gas after her 16 breakthrough and Gracie left to take care of herself.

Right now, Bradie and Mariah are working hard and making personal gains, yet Russia and Japan are moving further ahead

I often wonder where the US got left behind and why. Bad luck? Poor planning?

 

[aml78]

I analyze the post 2006 US ladies era a lot. The US was primed to be competitive if not winners. I knew with Mao and Yu Na fully graduated to the senior level that it would be tough to be on top but I figured that Kimmie and possibly Emily would be in the fight for a bronze at Worlds, especially with Kimmie being a world champion. However, Kimmie’s technique failed when her body changed and Emily’s skating career just went way sideways.

The new juniors, commonly referred to as the class of 08 (Mirai, Caroline, Rachael, Ashley) all showed some promise coming up behind Kimmie and Emily but each of them suffered from various forms of nerves and bad technique. Then, there was Alyssa.

Ashley with Gracie made small breakthroughs after Vancouver but as was stated, both missed multiple opportunities to medal at Worlds. Ashley really ran out of gas after her 16 breakthrough and Gracie left to take care of herself.

Right now, Bradie and Mariah are working hard and making personal gains, yet Russia and Japan are moving further ahead

I often wonder where the US got left behind and why. Bad luck? Poor planning?

We don’t have the infrastructure in place to develop competitive athletes from a young age. The US needs to look at our system and figure out how to make changes to better prep developing athletes. We are being left further and Further behind.

 

[Willin]

We could talk about the funding levels all day and how it's hard for any family that's not rich to get into skating (which needs to be fixed), but I think there's another factor: culture.

In China we see kids getting taken away from home and sent to specialized sport schools and training programs from a very young age (I've heard as young as 5-6, but it's probably more like 8-10) to train in their sport full time. In Russia we see Eteri's girls (and probably other skaters) training 4-5 hours a day as young as 9 or 10. It seems a lot of the Japanese skaters work that hard from that young an age as well.

I'm not in any way saying that US skaters can't train that hard from that young an age, but that in the US this isn't really socially acceptable or common at all. Elementary school age kids (5-11) are expected to be learning and out playing in their free time, not stuck in a rink every waking hour they're not in school. In fact a lot of skaters that age who are in the rink that much are said to have crazy parents, even if the kid's the one who wants to be on the ice all that time (which is for the most part true, but not always).
Because of research about the strain of excessive training (usually the research focuses on non-skating sports, though) it seems a lot of coaches, personal trainers, and pediatricians are cautious about the amount of training kids do which makes parents cautious about going too hard before a kid is middle or high school aged. I remember the personal trainers at my gym wouldn't do any sessions with kids under 13, and the ones at the rink would only do basic group conditioning/circuit classes like you'd see in PE class because of those issues with kids overtraining and getting injured with weights and other gym equipment. Even if the child wants to train 25 hours a week most adults won't let a 10-year-old do that.
Some of the more intense training methods you see in other countries or cultures (extremely strict diets, sports schools away from families, overstretching, training through injuries, etc.) are accepted for high school age kids and adult athletes, but are in no way culturally acceptable for young athletes.
That being said, just because these things aren't culturally acceptable doesn't mean a minority of skaters/parents don't employ these tactics.
So it's not that US kids can't or won't train to elite levels at that young of an age, just that our culture doesn't encourage more intense and/or unhealthy training methods for young kids when other countries are using them. I don't think this is a problem for just the US ladies, but also in Canada and Europe: the ladies discipline is favoring really young ladies and those skaters tend to be the ones that are training hard at really young ages. Personally I'd like to see all skaters train less at a young age for a number of reasons, but I don't see that happening.

 

[Marco]

Have you even attended any Regionals competitions? There "clean" tends to win over difficulty.

If a skater has a program with lower difficulty (more the artiste), then it is easier to go clean (note I am not saying easy). Add some bigger jumps and you have greater potential for things to go wrong. Some may say that skaters can get the "+1 bonus" for the bigger jumps and that should be enough to compensate for the fall. The reality is that fall gets a -5 GOE, plus a fall deduction, and a hit to the PCS.

Regionals is a great test of competition nerves for the all skaters. But odds are the technical skaters are being to penalized for a fall on the big jumps the artiste are not even attempting. If the technical skaters suddenly get those nerves under control, then they become a "newbie" and get penalized under reputation scoring.

Regionals is the pipeline that will eventually produce those Team USA skaters.

Well if they couldn't land those jumps, then they aren't really the athletes, right? That's supposed to be their edge.

 

[AxelAnnie]

We don’t have the infrastructure in place to develop competitive athletes from a young age. The US needs to look at our system and figure out how to make changes to better prep developing athletes. We are being left further and Further behind.

That would be fine if anyone cared. Where is Tonya Harding when you need her?

 

[Bulletsdad]

We could talk about the funding levels all day and how it's hard for any family that's not rich to get into skating (which needs to be fixed), but I think there's another factor: culture.

In China we see kids getting taken away from home and sent to specialized sport schools and training programs from a very young age (I've heard as young as 5-6, but it's probably more like 8-10) to train in their sport full time. In Russia we see Eteri's girls (and probably other skaters) training 4-5 hours a day as young as 9 or 10. It seems a lot of the Japanese skaters work that hard from that young an age as well.

I'm not in any way saying that US skaters can't train that hard from that young an age, but that in the US this isn't really socially acceptable or common at all. Elementary school age kids (5-11) are expected to be learning and out playing in their free time, not stuck in a rink every waking hour they're not in school. In fact a lot of skaters that age who are in the rink that much are said to have crazy parents, even if the kid's the one who wants to be on the ice all that time (which is for the most part true, but not always).
Because of research about the strain of excessive training (usually the research focuses on non-skating sports, though) it seems a lot of coaches, personal trainers, and pediatricians are cautious about the amount of training kids do which makes parents cautious about going too hard before a kid is middle or high school aged. I remember the personal trainers at my gym wouldn't do any sessions with kids under 13, and the ones at the rink would only do basic group conditioning/circuit classes like you'd see in PE class because of those issues with kids overtraining and getting injured with weights and other gym equipment. Even if the child wants to train 25 hours a week most adults won't let a 10-year-old do that.
Some of the more intense training methods you see in other countries or cultures (extremely strict diets, sports schools away from families, overstretching, training through injuries, etc.) are accepted for high school age kids and adult athletes, but are in no way culturally acceptable for young athletes.
That being said, just because these things aren't culturally acceptable doesn't mean a minority of skaters/parents don't employ these tactics.
So it's not that US kids can't or won't train to elite levels at that young of an age, just that our culture doesn't encourage more intense and/or unhealthy training methods for young kids when other countries are using them. I don't think this is a problem for just the US ladies, but also in Canada and Europe: the ladies discipline is favoring really young ladies and those skaters tend to be the ones that are training hard at really young ages. Personally I'd like to see all skaters train less at a young age for a number of reasons, but I don't see that happening.

Hence, the REALLY happy Scandanavian countries produce very few top skaters.
Could figure skating prowess be the new "misery index?"

 

[VGThuy]

Hence, the REALLY happy Scandanavian countries produce very few top skaters.
Could figure skating prowess be the new "misery index?"

Good question. That's also a reason why Romania is no longer producing gymnasts the way they used to. The girls there have other options to do other things and gymnastics is not the only key to success for girls anymore.

 

[Vagabond]

Entire post

From what I have read, it is my understanding that the only children in China who go into these training programs, whether at the age of 5-6 or 8-10, are from poor families. Wealthy or even middle-class families (by Chinese standards) don't want to send their children away at such an early age. And the opportunities for children from less disadvantaged backgrounds to be competitive figure skaters appear to be quite limited. It is perhaps for this reason that the Chinese Federation is trying as hard as it is to get a foreign-born skater to represent it at its home Olympics in 2022. One could quite reasonably say that, in China, it is hard for any family that is rich to get into skating.

 

[VGThuy]

From what I have read, it is my understanding that the only children in China who go into these training programs, whether at the age of 5-6 or 8-10, are from poor families. Wealthy or even middle-class families (by Chinese standards) don't want to send their children away at such an early age. And the opportunities for children from less disadvantaged backgrounds to be competitive figure skaters appear to be quite limited. It is perhaps for this reason that the Chinese Federation is trying as hard as it is to get a foreign-born skater to represent it at its home Olympics in 2022. One could quite reasonably say that, in China, it is hard for any family that is rich to get into skating.

Reading Shen/Zhao's story in The Second Mark is quite devastating with the amount of time away from family (almost the whole year from a young age until you stop) and all that physical pain and sacrifice. If I remember correctly, Hongbo's parents even wondered if it was worth it since they never saw him as he was growing up and severely missed him. That was back in 2002-03 though and maybe they're reaping the rewards now. Of course, if they had other choices I'm sure they wouldn't pick that. I can see why when Xue Shen had her baby, someone asked her if they'd want their daughter to go into figure skating, she pretty much said no but in a polite way. I think she and Hongbo want their daughter to enjoy life and they probably want to give her a real childhood with her parents/family with her.

 

[Jammers]

I analyze the post 2006 US ladies era a lot. The US was primed to be competitive if not winners. I knew with Mao and Yu Na fully graduated to the senior level that it would be tough to be on top but I figured that Kimmie and possibly Emily would be in the fight for a bronze at Worlds, especially with Kimmie being a world champion. However, Kimmie’s technique failed when her body changed and Emily’s skating career just went way sideways.

The new juniors, commonly referred to as the class of 08 (Mirai, Caroline, Rachael, Ashley) all showed some promise coming up behind Kimmie and Emily but each of them suffered from various forms of nerves and bad technique. Then, there was Alyssa.

Ashley with Gracie made small breakthroughs after Vancouver but as was stated, both missed multiple opportunities to medal at Worlds. Ashley really ran out of gas after her 16 breakthrough and Gracie left to take care of herself.

Right now, Bradie and Mariah are working hard and making personal gains, yet Russia and Japan are moving further ahead

I often wonder where the US got left behind and why. Bad luck? Poor planning?

Basically during the time Michelle and Sasha were dominating in the early 2000's there wasn't a large group of good younger skaters in Novice or Juniors that could fill the void once they both retired in 2006. That's why by 2008 you had so little depth of good Senior girls that the podium included 3 girls that were not even old enough to go to Worlds. Yes the US ladies did well in Juniors especially in the 2007-2009 period when they won 8 of the possible 9 medals including sweeping in consecutive years but looking at the 2008 podium each skater had weaknesses that was going to keep them from going much further internationally. Rachael Flatt was limited and was never going to make a World podium Caroline Zhang had terrible technique that was ignored because she was so successful as a Junior and Ashley was simply the weakest of the top 4 and as we saw was a late bloomer but she wasn't ready to challenge the top ladies internationally. Mirai was the one with the most natural talent but she had issues to with her jumps and training and nerves and after the 2010 Olympics which should have been the start of her being US number 1 she regressed for the next 4 seasons. Gracie has been the only top US Junior in the last decade that seemed to have the jumps and technically ability to eventually challenge in the Senior ranks but her undoing were nerves otherwise she would have been a multi time world medalist.

 

[aftershocks]

I hate the hype machine (dreading how NBC is going to cover Alysa at Nationals) and I hope the technique comments will serve to temper some of the expectations that are heaped on her right now. Alysa is still developing, she's still very young and she's simply not soup yet. It will be exciting to watch her grow and mature, and I sincerely hope that she's given some space to do that.

I agree. It seems like TPTB and the media don't know how to relax and cover a skater without full blast expectations. I think Hersh and Lipinski could have toned it down just a bit. Let's not forget that Mirai Nagasu skated well at 2008 U.S. Nationals and it was decided that she deserved to win it all, even though she could not attend Worlds. In Mirai's case, a load of pressure and self-doubt ensued. That might not happen for Alysa should she in fact skate well enough in her senior debut and land everything and end up with a win. Maybe Alysa would be prepared for the OTT scrutiny and pressure. Personally, I think it would be an accomplishment for her simply to make the senior podium at Nationals in her senior debut. Allow her to develop steadily, instead of rushing her to the mountaintop.

I hope Alysa is able to enjoy her first U.S. senior Nationals with her father, and take in every moment, and not get ahead of herself.

Curiously, it almost seems as if some of this building attention for Alysa began this summer when Lease made an offhand comment about her as 'U.S. ladies' savior' on TSL that actually seemed partly tongue-in-cheek and not completely serious.

 

[Sylvia]

Local news segment on Ting Cui: https://www.wbaltv.com/article/exci...ar-old-figure-skater-from-pikesville/25604159

Belated thanks for sharing this Baltimore TV news story on Ting earlier in this thread... I always like to see local coverage of skaters who are heading to Nationals.