U.S. Women [#2]: The Unbearable Lightness of Beijing

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Ting Cui recently performed at the seasonal, outdoor Baltimore Inner Harbor ice rink to the song "Hallelujah" by Pentatonix (starting at ~8:45) in this local WBAL-TV holiday special :):
www.wbaltv.com

'Season to Celebrate' returns for fifth year! See when to watch

"Season to Celebrate" returns this holiday season for the fifth consecutive year on WBAL-TV and MeTV Baltimore!
www.wbaltv.com www.wbaltv.com
 
kwanfan1818 said:
Yes. I was there, and Kwan was, well, off. (Many skaters were: overall, it felt like a weaker competition than Dortmund.) She could have been equally off in the SP, or Kostner might not have seen the results of the quali and felt confident that the judges would reward her over Kwan going into the SP, given that in the last year of the old system the year before, Kwan placed higher than Kostner and Sebestyen in the SP, which, IMO, never should have happened. So she might have skated worse in the SP. Or, or, or.

As it was, the difference between Kwan's and Kostner's scores in the SP and FS in 2005 were less than 1 pt/program and 1.09 in total, so just a few marks here or there could have changed the result. It's not like Kwan was in a huge ditch after the quali and was so much better than Kostner in the SP and FS.
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Sebestyen? She was 12th in the SP. (ETA: oh wait, you meant at Dortmund). Anyway back in 2005, small medals were given out that Worlds for the first time, so I’m sure Kwan got a kick collecting her small medals for the SP and LP later on.
 
Sylvia said:
ICYMI in the Holiday shows thread... link to watch Gracie's exhibition program at the Tree Lighting show outdoors in Providence, Rhode Island on Dec. 3, 2021 (she includes a cool inside Axel -- right forward inside edge takeoff -- early on which used to be seen quite often as a warmup move by Russian skaters): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDgo64Apnqg&t=2465s
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Gracie looks like she is in the best (skating) shape of her life! I love the speed, the flow and the attack in her skating. I wish her the best at Nationals!
 
kwanfan1818 said:
Yes. I was there, and Kwan was, well, off. (Many skaters were: overall, it felt like a weaker competition than Dortmund.) She could have been equally off in the SP, or Kostner might not have seen the results of the quali and felt confident that the judges would reward her over Kwan going into the SP, given that in the last year of the old system the year before, Kwan placed higher than Kostner and Sebestyen in the SP, which, IMO, never should have happened. So she might have skated worse in the SP. Or, or, or.

As it was, the difference between Kwan's and Kostner's scores in the SP and FS in 2005 were less than 1 pt/program and 1.09 in total, so just a few marks here or there could have changed the result. It's not like Kwan was in a huge ditch after the quali and was so much better than Kostner in the SP and FS.
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I still think to this day that Kostner deserved 1st in the short program in Moscow and I'm pretty sure many other people felt the same way back then. Surely shouldn't have been Slutskaya who had two noticeable flaws. I have zero problem with Kwan being off the podium that year and to be quite honest, Suguri was probably most screwed in 2004 in both the SP and LP.
 
tony said:
I still think to this day that Kostner deserved 1st in the short program in Moscow and I'm pretty sure many other people felt the same way back then.
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Similarly to the way the Russian skating adults assumed about Sokolova, there was no way she was going to be Kwan in DC without Kwan wiping out, Slutskaya would have had to have fallen three times in the SP not to win it in Moscow, especially after the comeback she had from her heart condition. There is no way on this planet that Slutskaya had better skating skills than Kostner, (ETA) and no way in the universe that Cohen had better skating skills than Kostner, which was even worse than Slutskaya over Kostner in the SP.

It's always an experience to see home-town skaters get that kind of swell of crowd support throughout a competition. For me it was three in a row: Kwan in DC, Lindemann in Dortmund, and Slutskaya in Moscow.
 
But all in all, Kwan and Slutskaya skated well enough for their medals? Sluts had that amazing long, and Kwan would win out on skating skills. That said, I didn't watch it live, and I'm just going by memory. Don't know about Lindemann
 
The discussion was about the SP, not the FS. But I would say that given the two performances that happened in the SP and FS, no, I don't think Kwan should have gotten the small medals she did, because Kostner's SS should have been scored enough over Kwan's to have edged her over Kwan in the SP and FS, even after the 80% factoring.
 
Carolla5501 said:
Hmmm. So how does the fit with all the gossip we have on here that she’s not even trying to skate
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Hmmmm... The gossip was that she hasn't been at the rink in Colorado Springs. Benoit is/was in Boston, so that explains why she hasn't been seen at the rink in the Springs. Guess TSL needs to work on their Boston network.
 
olympic said:
I think Nancy was under-appreciated, especially by some on this board. I'm glad that she had the skate of her life at Lillehammer in 1994, and yes, she wuz robbed
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Nancy should have won by the rules / if judged logically, because she was that far ahead in technical merit and choreographic elements; that said, Oksana did have the more exciting skate and I understand (but not necessarily agree) why some judges put her ahead at the moment with the crowd cheering and her own reaction being quite surreal.
 
tony said:
I still think to this day that Kostner deserved 1st in the short program in Moscow and I'm pretty sure many other people felt the same way back then. Surely shouldn't have been Slutskaya who had two noticeable flaws. I have zero problem with Kwan being off the podium that year and to be quite honest, Suguri was probably most screwed in 2004 in both the SP and LP.
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The system was new then and the judges didn't have the experience and was most likely judging by reputation. Kwan never compted under COP at all and the judges were probably struggling to score her. Kwan skated a clean short program but her COP elements were poor and deserved to be dinged on TES; but there was no way Slutskaya and Cohen with their visible wobbles on elements scored that high on PCS.

Overall, Kwan lost the bronze because she popped some jumps in the qualifying and did not have the COP mindset to do the combinations anyways. She also didn't receive a bunch of spin and spiral features that she attempted because she didn't hold them long enough. Having her skip the GPs in both 04 and 05 seasons hurt her - then again I understand she really was THAT injured.
 
Marco said:
Overall, Kwan lost the bronze because she popped some jumps in the qualifying and did not have the COP mindset to do the combinations anyways. She also didn't receive a bunch of spin and spiral features that she attempted because she didn't hold them long enough. Having her skip the GPs in both 04 and 05 seasons hurt her - then again I understand she really was THAT injured.
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[Sorry for the continued drift] but yes, I remember Kwan didn't hold her final spiral position for 3 seconds in the QR and it knocked her level down to 1. I also vaguely remember her saying something to the extent of not having known that was a requirement afterwards (but that could be incorrect), which IIRC caused a lot of discussion whether her team even bothered to read the rules that year since she hadn't competed in COP. That QR performance was shown by ESPN and it was pretty bad. Kostner, on the other hand, did 6 triples I think.

But I still think Kostner was way underscored in the SP (the top 9 or so were actually not that far apart) and because of that, she was more than deserving of the overall bronze. And Kwan's Bolero by Worlds... well..
 
tony said:
[Sorry for the continued drift] but yes, I remember Kwan didn't hold her final spiral position for 3 seconds in the QR and it knocked her level down to 1. I also vaguely remember her saying something to the extent of not having known that was a requirement afterwards (but that could be incorrect), which IIRC caused a lot of discussion whether her team even bothered to read the rules that year since she hadn't competed in COP. That QR performance was shown by ESPN and it was pretty bad. Kostner, on the other hand, did 6 triples I think.

But I still think Kostner was way underscored in the SP (the top 9 or so were actually not that far apart) and because of that, she was more than deserving of the overall bronze. And Kwan's Bolero by Worlds... well..
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When it comes to Kwan, there is never a drift. She is a US lady afterall :P

What I find strange is she said she enlisted the help of Lakernik back the days for COP compliance / strategy. I also don't believe Kwan is someone who wouldn't get herself fully versed on the rules. I feel this is mostly a combination of her body not fully allowing her to do those things and her not having the competitive experience of thinking right on the spot, more so than her not knowing what the rules were. Back in 6.0, the only thinking on the spot for her was adding a 3toe near the end when the 3/3 didn't happen.

During that summer, she was doing 3/2/2s in COI and lutzes and flips all over to prove that she still got it.

And it wasn't Kwan's Bolero by Worlds that was ghastly, it was just subpar all season.
 
Marco said:
Nancy should have won by the rules / if judged logically, because she was that far ahead in technical merit and choreographic elements; that said, Oksana did have the more exciting skate and I understand (but not necessarily agree) why some judges put her ahead at the moment with the crowd cheering and her own reaction being quite surreal.
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I rewatched this comp and one time caught it on JPN TV which IMO is the best HD. It really showcased how fast Oksana moved across the ice and how high she jumped. NONETHELESS, her sloppy landings, very little in the spin / spiral category, and the disjointed program was not worthy of the OGM. Nancy overall was better.
 
From Alysa's pre-Nationals media call today: https://twitter.com/LynnRutherford/status/1473003275968471062
On her teleconference, Alysa Liu told reporters she doesn't feel much pressure heading into nationals: "I've started to care less about the expectations .... less about what other people say," she said, adding, "I've just matured."
Asked whether her triple axel was getting more consistent, Alysa replied, "I hope so, I'm doing it a lot." She said she does not anticipate trying a quad in Nashville.
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... she said her new coaches/training facility "is going pretty well now. At first, because it was such a sudden change for me, I wasn't dealing with it that well."
Alysa Liu said the decision was a mutual decision. "It was hard for me to make, that is why I wasn't dealing with it well at first." She said she made the change for "new opportunities, new experiences."
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I wonder sometimes if Karen is too aware of all of the criticisms and comments made about her and it undermines her confidence and gives her extra stress and pressure, in the SP especially. She seems to be stuck on thinking she has to work on her deficits and it’s so challenging that she can’t move past it to sell her programs or fight harder like a skater who would maybe be less aware and even be more a bit delusional about their abilities…but sometimes you have to have some blinders on and ignore the naysayers to just concentrate on your goals.
 
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