U.S. Women [#2]: The Unbearable Lightness of Beijing

[Coco]

It's a really remarkable interview by Karen. It's very uncommon for a US Lady to be so forthcoming about technical flaws. I hope it is well received by developmental coaches in the US. Hopefully they react better than her former boot maker.

It's entirely possible someone attempted to give her better technique, but her body took over and did it 'her way' and she was rewarded by judges for the same reason all the other kids with technical flaws are rewarded.

I'm just really glad someone is putting a spotlight on technique and how the dye is cast at younger levels.

 

[Sylvia]

Here's what Vincent Zhou said in his media call about Alysa training on World Arena ice with him: https://twitter.com/AnythingGOE/status/1473418663369842691

“It’s nice having another world-class athlete around. It helps elevate the level of competitiveness in the rink. I help her with the heavier weights in the gym and I saw her land a great triple axel today.”

 

[Willin]

Ouch. That's... rude. As if to say skaters like Bradie and Young You aren't world class?

 

[Sylvia]

what's wrong with him saying "another world-class athlete"??

 

[tony]

Ouch. That's... rude. As if to say skaters like Bradie and Young You aren't world class?

Another doesn't mean 'another besides me'.

 

[Carolla5501]

Does a 15 year old even know what a mutual decision is when a bunch of adults are also involved? I feel bad for her. Based on how she felt, it does not seem like she was looking forward to the decision. She is in 9th grade

I know a lot of 15-year-olds who apparently have more maturity than you think they do. Honestly, at that age they need to start making decisions because in a few years they’ll be independent.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Alysa's remarks just make me feel sad somehow. Wistful. They're also a little confusing. It was a 'sudden' change, yet it was a 'mutual' decision? And her father said that he had made the decision. It's all just a little perplexing. I hope that Alysa skates great at Nationals and the Olympics, but above all, I hope that she is happy.

 

[UGG]

I know a lot of 15-year-olds who apparently have more maturity than you think they do. Honestly, at that age they need to start making decisions because in a few years they’ll be independent.

It has nothing to do with maturity.

 

[UGG]

She's now 16 and she graduated from high school last June.

Well I thought she was 15 but she turned 16 four months ago. The point is that is very young.

 

[skatfan]

Well I thought she was 15 but she turned 16 four months ago. The point is that is very young.

But also already a high school graduate not a ninth grader like you claimed. She’s also trained in Europe seeing the sites there, and done school as self study. She runs her life more than most teenagers.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Ouch. That's... rude. As if to say skaters like Bradie and Young You aren't world class?

Lol I was just about to chime in with the same exact thing. Does Vincent think that Bradie is lunchmeat class skater or what?

I went back up and reread the post. Oh I did not see that he said “another” eitherNow that makes much more sense

 

[layman]

Twitter thread re. Karen's pre-Nationals media call tonight: https://twitter.com/AnythingGOE/status/1473092282610036737

I think Karen is being way too hard on herself and way too generous in regard to Russian skaters (and their technique).

Karen was taught to jump up first and then rotate. Most of the current crop of Russians start rotating on the ice...they cheat their way to 3-axels and quads. I don't call that good technique. I will take Karen's technique any day. She get's way more height and covers way more distance across the ice than the Russians do...she just starts rotating too late to add the extra-rotations (for quads and for the 3-axel) but I prefer looking at the delayed-rotation that Karen shows...it's exquisite.

Plus Karen spins like the Russians can only dream of. No Russian shows a layback spin like Karen...or any other spin. Karen's spins are just textbook.

Karen...if you read this...you are wonderful...be happy with what you have and what you were taught.

 

[VGThuy]

That’s a good point. A lot of skaters right now are lucky the ISU hasn’t cracked down on prerotations and Lutzes that look more like loops as they have for URs and flutzes/lips. If they did, the results for the past eight years or so would have been affected in ladies.

 

[feraina]

I think Karen is being way too hard on herself and way too generous in regard to Russian skaters (and their technique).

Karen was taught to jump up first and then rotate. Most of the current crop of Russians start rotating on the ice...they cheat their way to 3-axels and quads. I don't call that good technique. I will take Karen's technique any day. She get's way more height and covers way more distance across the ice than the Russians do...she just starts rotating too late to add the extra-rotations (for quads and for the 3-axel) but I prefer looking at the delayed-rotation that Karen shows...it's exquisite.

Plus Karen spins like the Russians can only dream of. No Russian shows a layback spin like Karen...or any other spin. Karen's spins are just textbook.

Karen...if you read this...you are wonderful...be happy with what you have and what you were taught.

That’s what Jason was taught as well. It just doesn’t work for quads and 3A (for women). For whatever reasons COP rewards crisp landings much much more than clean takeoffs. I don’t really understand the logic.

But Jason’s 3A and quads, and his other triples, have all improved in height, flow, rotation, and consistency since he changed his technique. So it would seem to be a better technique. However he’s not pre-rotating. You can start rotating before you hit the apex without pre-rotating on the ice. It’s not either or. If COP properly penalized pre-rotation then we should see these ultra c elements without an increase in pre-rotation.

 

[yeslek]

Hmmmm... The gossip was that she hasn't been at the rink in Colorado Springs. Benoit is/was in Boston, so that explains why she hasn't been seen at the rink in the Springs. Guess TSL needs to work on their Boston network.

That’s literally what they said.

 

[yeslek]

I know a lot of 15-year-olds who apparently have more maturity than you think they do. Honestly, at that age they need to start making decisions because in a few years they’ll be independent.

A few years is a long time especially when you’re 15….

 

[UGG]

But also already a high school graduate not a ninth grader like you claimed. She’s also trained in Europe seeing the sites there, and done school as self study. She runs her life more than most teenagers.

Most people turn 16 sophomore year. She isn’t an adult 18 year old college graduate. That’s a big difference age wise regardless if she completed high school early.

 

[Sylvia]

Mariah Bell article by Lynn Rutherford (Dec. 21): https://www.teamusa.org/News/2021/D...e-Back-Right-In-Time-For-The-US-Championships
Excerpts:

Performing to “River Flows in You” and “Hallelujah” — also choreographed by Bourne — Bell racked up 210.35 points at Rostelecom Cup in Sochi, Russia, the highest total score for any U.S. woman on the Grand Prix this season. And that was without landing her most difficult element, the triple flip-triple toe loop combination.
“Everyone brings something different to the table, so I am really happy that what I’ve done the last several seasons is being recognized by the judges,” Bell said. “It’s not easy to do all the jumps, but it’s also not easy to really work on that second mark (program components score) and the quality of your skating. It’s just as challenging as doing any jump.”

That said, Bell knows that to gain her first Olympic berth, she will almost certainly need her triple-triple combination at the 2022 U.S. championships, to be held in Nashville, Tennessee early next month.
“There’s no doubt, no question,” she said. “You have to go to nationals in the best shape and put your best out. That’s what is so exciting about nationals: it’s an event when everyone is peaking.”

 

[AxelAnnie]

I’m not blaming him — I really like Raf. But he literally said in an interview I read that he was only going to travel with Chen pandemic

from now on.

Well good for him! He has been doing this for a long time. And I don't see pandemic consequences easing anytime soon.
A lot of risk for him.

 

[Jarrett]

That’s a good point. A lot of skaters right now are lucky the ISU hasn’t cracked down on prerotations and Lutzes that look more like loops as they have for URs and flutzes/lips. If they did, the results for the past eight years or so would have been affected in ladies.

Plenty of the men pre-rotate as well it is not just ladies. I hope technology and the judging rules advance to help the tech panel call jumps accurately.

 

[missing]

I created a word: Gwimen.

It's not age specific and can replace Ladies. And since Google informs me a word cannot be copyrighted (a good thing too, since I google a lot of stuff), gwimen is there for the using.

 

[giselle23]

Ouch. That's... rude. As if to say skaters like Bradie and Young You aren't world class?

They are world class athletes and Alisa is another. That is what he meant.

 

[Frau Muller]

Having just watched Russian & Japan Nationals…does any eligible woman in the USA (or even in Korea) stand a chance in h*** for top six in Beijing? Alysa Liu or Lindsay T, maybe?

Aside from 3 Russians (all with ultra-C elements), there’ll be 3 Japanese (2 of then with Ultra-C & Kaori with high PCS), at least one Korean with a regular ultra-C…so that’s 7. Not to mention Loena, a couple of strong competitors from ex-Soviet states (Belarus, Estonia, & such).

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Having just watched Russian & Japan Nationals…does any eligible woman in the USA (or even in Korea) stand a chance in h*** for top six in Beijing? Alysa Liu or Lindsay T, maybe?

And having just finished watching Russian women’s nationals myself, that was my thought and it’s a resounding no. Oh my gosh I have to admit not even Alysa is anywhere close to like the top seven Russians, I know scores are a bit inflated but the Russian women are solid.

Was cool they pointed out Irina and champions of yesterday in the audience

I was even thinking even if Amber was to do a triple axle or Alysa is able to do the quad lutz it’s like yeah and? The top seven Russian can do multiple quads all in combination with arms over their head. and at the end of the program as well lol.

 

[Frau Muller]

And having just finished watching Russian women’s nationals myself, that was my thought and it’s a resounding no. Oh my gosh I have to admit not even Alysa is anywhere close to like the top seven Russians, I know scores are a bit inflated but the Russian women are solid.

Was cool they pointed out Irina and champions of yesterday in the audience

I was even thinking even if Amber was to do a triple axle or Alysa is able to do the quad lutz it’s like yeah and? The top seven Russian can do multiple quads all in combination with arms over their head. and at the end of the program as well lol.

Right. I was thinking Isabeau Levito…but she’s not age eligible this year…and there’s no guarantee that her body will stay the same next year.

 

[Karen-W]

And having just finished watching Russian women’s nationals myself, that was my thought and it’s a resounding no. Oh my gosh I have to admit not even Alysa is anywhere close to like the top seven Russians, I know scores are a bit inflated but the Russian women are solid.

Was cool they pointed out Irina and champions of yesterday in the audience

I was even thinking even if Amber was to do a triple axle or Alysa is able to do the quad lutz it’s like yeah and? The top seven Russian can do multiple quads all in combination with arms over their head. and at the end of the program as well lol.

Except the question is "does Alysa stand a chance in h*** for top 6 in Beijing. It doesn't matter whether she is behind the top 7 Russian women (she's not, FYI - she'd beat the skates that Liza put out at Rus Nats) because Russia is only sending 3 women. And, frankly, she might stand a chance at beating Anna, if they both were marked for their URs correctly. Now, there will be 3 Japanese women, You and Hendrickx also in Beijing, so I think top 6 might be a stretch but ice is slippery and beyond what we saw from Kamila, Sasha, Kaori, & Wakaba this weekend, Alysa can match up with the rest.

 

[olympic]

IDK. Ice is slippery. Olympic nerves are different than any other type of nerves including the nerves one gets at Worlds.

I guess US Nationals will tell us a lot. We will see. I would like to see Alysa clean up the jumps at the back end, Mariah get through clean programs w/ 3-3s, and Amber deliver the 3A. I think while we would not catch the RUS women, but US ladies would be respectable on the world scene and compete w/ the JPN women. I actually don't think the KOR women by and large are as big a threat. There has been a performance or two by Young You, but the others have been underperforming. I would have to say the same thing about Louena Hendrickx

 

[DreamSkates]

Ouch. That's... rude. As if to say skaters like Bradie and Young You aren't world class?

That doesn't mean he thinks she is the only w-c athlete there.

 

[Coco]

When was the last time Anna S. competed a long program with multiple quads in combination or quads in the bonus time?

 

[sjs5572]

IDK. Ice is slippery. Olympic nerves are different than any other type of nerves including the nerves one gets at Worlds.

I guess US Nationals will tell us a lot. We will see. I would like to see Alysa clean up the jumps at the back end, Mariah get through clean programs w/ 3-3s, and Amber deliver the 3A. I think while we would not catch the RUS women, but US ladies would be respectable on the world scene and compete w/ the JPN women. I actually don't think the KOR women by and large are as big a threat. There has been a performance or two by Young You, but the others have been underperforming. I would have to say the same thing about Louena Hendrickx

Yep. Nationals are in less than two weeks. Let's see what our women show in Nashville. From what I've heard, Alysa has been doing clean 3a's in practice, and working hard on rotations and stamina.