U.S. Women [#2]: The Unbearable Lightness of Beijing

[Sylvia]

Fan Zone article on Karen Chen by Jillian Martinez (Dec. 14):

Karen Chen Sets Eyes on Second Olympics - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Former U.S. champion Karen Chen was only 18 last time she attended the Olympic Winter Games, placing 11th at the 2018 Games in PyeongChang, South Korea. In the past

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

Excerpt:

Chen hopes to return to school as a full-time student in fall 2022. For now, though, she is focusing on not only her physical training, but her mental training, too. According to Chen, she felt a lot of intense pressure when she last competed for an Olympic spot in 2018. A big change this time will be building her mental strength with the help of her sports psychologist and therapist.
"Last time it was crazy for me. I told my team at the beginning of this season how hard this was going to be for me, and they've all been so supportive," said Chen. "I don't want to be distracted by all the other pressures I know I will be feeling. I just want to really focus on me and being the best version of myself possible."

 

[toddlj]

I think it is really exciting that the podium at nationals is so wide open. Alysa might be the favorite, but Karen or Mariah... or Bradie if she's competing... or Amber if she has a "once in a lifetime"... could legitimately win.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Bradie is no Kerrigan. She doesn't have a World or Olympic medal on her resume and her bad skate at Worlds saw her finish 9th, whereas Kerrigan's bad skate at '93 Worlds saw her finish 5th. Granted, it was a different time and that off-podium finish DID cost the US a 3rd entry the next year, but there is still the matter of the fact that Bradie lacks the other accomplishments that Kerrigan DID have.

Mariah is in a better position, even lacking the 3-3 at this time, than Bradie, simply because she is showing up and competing.

As you say it's a different time. NO American lady except 1 has been on the World/Olympic podium in 15 years. Bradie's is not "showing up", she's injured. I still think as reining National Champion and reliable producer USFS will give her a test before making final decision. Time will tell.

 

[Marco]

Honestly, a 3/3 is truly and seriously important in the SP so you won't be buried and stuck in an early group.

The difference in BV between a 3/2 and 3/3 is a little less than 3 points. Stronger GOEs and PCS would have made up for that.

 

[VGThuy]

The difference in BV between a 3/2 and 3/3 is a little less than 3 points. Stronger GOEs and PCS would have made up for that.

Yeah but with the way GOE and PCS are tied to TES…how many GOEs and PCS would a skater get for a 3/2 compared to a 3/3, especially a higher level 3/3? And how many skaters can one fit in between two skaters who are about 3 points apart in base value?

 

[Vagabond]

https://results.isu.org/isujsstat/sb2021-22/sbtswsp.htm

Mariah Bell is twenty-seventh on the Season's Best List for the Short Program. If she had scored three points higher at Rostelecom Cup, she would be in fourteenth place. If she had scored 6.50 points higher, as might have happened with a clean SP, given how judges mark, she would be in eighth place, behind only various Russians and Wakaba Higuchi.

 

[euterpe]

I wouldn't say Bradie is 'not in the mix internationally.' While she missed this season, she did medal on the GP and make the GP Final in the last true GP series (pre-crud). She also medaled at the fully attended 4CC in 2020. And her 9th at 2021 Worlds, where she was 7th in the SP and 8th in the FS, was with falling apart boots.

And while Mariah is not attempting 3-3 in her FS, I don't think 'hardly any jump content' is fair as she is repeating Flip and Lutz, and putting 3 of those 4 jumps as her three bonus passes.

Amber had one lutz and two flips in her FS, and at Golden Spin, all she had in the bonus was 3lo, 3lo+rep and 2a. And Amber didn't have any 3/3s either.

 

[olympic]

Kerrigan was also ready and willing to compete after a good skate at an earlier comp that season but was WHACKED.

Piruetten 1993? I think that was also a very solid competition for Kerrigan. I think the disaster at 1993 Worlds kinda woke her up for the following season

 

[Carolla5501]

I'm betting that Bradie won't be at Nationals.

I'm not sure how reliable Dave Lease's info out of Colorado Springs is but in the TSL update last night, he seems to believe she isn't skating right now - per his sources, Gabriella Izzo knew in Warsaw that she would be going to Golden Spin as Bradie's replacement.

Well now we have it... facts from the gossip master of skating. Which proves... only that he opened his mouth.

 

[Karen-W]

Well now we have it... facts from the gossip master of skating. Which proves... only that he opened his mouth.

shrugs I've been doubtful Bradie will be at Nationals since she withdrew from GP Italia, Cup of Austria, and Warsaw Cup. If you listen carefully, the nugget to sieve from the snippy rink parent gossip out of Colorado Springs is that she, apparently, hasn't been seen much on the ice at the World Arena in the past few months.

For someone who is so damn cynical about the USFS, one would think you'd be jumping all over and running with the idea that the USFS is playing favorites here in propping up Bradie by giving her assignments while knowing full well that she isn't even skating and that she isn't going to be at Nationals, and at least giving a healthy side eye to anything Phil Hersh tweets claiming that all is well with Team Tennell (which he was doing the day after Warsaw Cup) since it's pretty clear that he is not much more than Tom Z's mouthpiece these days and anything he says should be taken with at least as with a hefty grain of salt as anything Dave Lease says.

 

[Sonata]

Piruetten 1993? I think that was also a very solid competition for Kerrigan. I think the disaster at 1993 Worlds kinda woke her up for the following season

I remember that competition. It was a very fun watch. She won against all the favourites, except for Baiul, who wasn't there. She was the reigning national champ, an Olympic gold medal contender and she got assaulted at NATIONALS. There was no way she wasn't getting a bye to Olympics.

 

[Vagabond]

I remember that competition. It was a very fun watch. She won against all the favourites, except for Baiul, who wasn't there. She was the reigning national champ, an Olympic gold medal contender and she got assaulted at NATIONALS. There was no way she wasn't getting a bye to Olympics.

And if the U.S.F.S.A. had not found a way of putting a fully recovered Kerrigan on the team, it would have lost all credibility with the American public and most likely within the sport worldwide.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

And if the U.S.F.S.A. had not found a way of putting a fully recovered Kerrigan on the team, it would have lost all credibility with the American public and most likely within the sport worldwide.

And the correct move. She showed up Lillihammer in best shape physically and mentally of her career. I still consider those two skates the best women's performance in recent Oly history - Kim in 2010 excepted.

 

[clairecloutier]

NBC Olympic "Meet the Athlete" Q/A with Karen Chen:

Meet the Athletes: Karen Chen

Get to know Olympian Karen Chen as she eyes another Olympic berth in 2022.

www.nbcolympics.com

 

[Sylvia]

I came across this local NBC/Team Toyota promo/'fluff' interview with Alysa (cute bangs!) that includes old footage from when she won her first national title (Dec. 6):

Alysa Liu Hoping to Spin to Olympic Figure Skating Gold

Philly Live’s Aunyea Lachelle catches up with Team Toyota Winter Olympics hopeful Alysa Liu as she chases her golden dream.

www.nbcphiladelphia.com

 

[AxelAnnie]

Brad is must have had quite the injury.

 

[olympic]

And the correct move. She showed up Lillihammer in best shape physically and mentally of her career. I still consider those two skates the best women's performance in recent Oly history - Kim in 2010 excepted.

Great skates, but I think it's all relative. Tech was kind of at an ebb in 1994. The winning ladies were capped out in the LP at a single 3Z and the only 3-3 that I recall was Kerrigan's 3T-3T. Lu's skate was a big deal because she repeated the 3Z. At the previous Olympics, you needed to attempt 7 triples to compete for an OGM, including a 3A (Ito) and / or 3Z-3T (Yamaguchi). Then, in 1998, once again the ladies needed to repeat the 3Z and attempt 7 triples albeit the 3A took a break

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Great skates, but I think it's all relative. Tech was kind of at an ebb in 1994. The winning ladies were capped out in the LP at a single 3Z and the only 3-3 that I recall was Kerrigan's 3T-3T. Lu's skate was a big deal because she repeated the 3Z. At the previous Olympics, you needed to attempt 7 triples to compete for an OGM, including a 3A (Ito) and / or 3Z-3T (Yamaguchi). Then, in 1998, once again the ladies needed to repeat the 3Z and attempt 7 triples albeit the 3A took a break

Great info I didn't know. You can't really compare 1994 to now or even 2010. It was just that she was so prepared - the positions, the speed, control - wish we had more of those now.

 

[olympic]

Great info I didn't know. You can't really compare 1994 to now or even 2010. It was just that she was so prepared - the positions, the speed, control - wish we had more of those now.

I think Nancy was under-appreciated, especially by some on this board. I'm glad that she had the skate of her life at Lillehammer in 1994, and yes, she wuz robbed

 

[Sylvia]

Bradie was at the SC of Boston working with Benoit Richaud in the past week (just noticed her comment on his Insta: "I had no idea you took those shots of me "): https://www.instagram.com/p/CXnfP65ItTZ/

 

[Skibean]

…and we know how that turned out (withdrawal after an early practice & call for the alternate).
I always wondered how NBC may have pushed that…to get the media queen to do early publicity for the Olympics. Kwan was the Simone Biles of her time…pushed into staying one mo’ time for $. I always felt that Sasha Cohen should’ve been allowed to shine in 2006 as undisputed USA#1. Sasha was the only US medalist - silver - at 2005 World; Michelle 4th.

And where do you get your sources that Kwan was pushed to compete for money? Because very very reliable sources say it’s false.

Sasha had several opportunities to beat Kwan, but due to her own inconsistencies, she was never able to do it. This wasn’t Kwan’s fault. Sasha has only skated one clean LP in her career that I’m aware of and very few 3/3’s if any.

Kwan got the bye because she was injured, Couldn’t compete at nationals, and her body of work speaks for itself.

Also, Kwan was 3rd in both the SP and LP at those worlds. Kostner got lucky.

 

[olympic]

And where do you get your sources that Kwan was pushed to compete for money? Because very very reliable sources say it’s false.

Sasha had several opportunities to beat Kwan, but due to her own inconsistencies, she was never able to do it. This wasn’t Kwan’s fault. Sasha has only stayed one clean LP in her career that I’m aware of and very few 3/3’s if any.

Kwan got the bye because she was injured, Couldn’t compete at nationals, and her body of work speaks for itself.

Also, Kwan was 3rd in both the SP and LP at those worlds. Kostner got lucky.

Without the qualifying round, Kwan would've snatched the bronze at '05 Worlds

 

[kwanfan1818]

That's if both skaters skated the SP and FS the same way.

 

[Sylvia]

Amber got the exciting opportunity to represent Team USA athletes yesterday at the unveiling of the Delta's A330-900 airplane that was specially painted with the Team USA colors/logo (see her Instagram stories for another behind-the-scenes pic): https://www.instagram.com/p/CXmXps-takB/

 

[carriecmu0503]

…and we know how that turned out (withdrawal after an early practice & call for the alternate).
I always wondered how NBC may have pushed that…to get the media queen to do early publicity for the Olympics. Kwan was the Simone Biles of her time…pushed into staying one mo’ time for $. I always felt that Sasha Cohen should’ve been allowed to shine in 2006 as undisputed USA#1. Sasha was the only US medalist - silver - at 2005 World; Michelle 4th.

Sasha was not the only US medalist at 2005 Worlds. Evan Lysacek won bronze, and Tanith and Ben won silver.

 

[Carolla5501]

Boy frau muller has some revisionist history about Sasha.

It’s called the “sasha splat” for a reason LOL


And if Michelle was in it for the money I don’t think she would’ve stayed competing. The fact that she basically has not ever really gone into professional skating tells me she stayed in it because she wanted to compete

 

[VGThuy]

Remember what happened when Sasha was the undisputed no. 1 American going into 2006 Worlds?

 

[olympic]

That's if both skaters skated the SP and FS the same way.

Is this in re '05 Worlds? Kwan was pretty predictable. Kostner was more wobbly. I would say if anything, Kwan may have been stronger w/o the qualifying round. I think fewer programs would've meant less stress on her hip.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Is this in re '05 Worlds? Kwan was pretty predictable. Kostner was more wobbly. I would say if anything, Kwan may have been stronger w/o the qualifying round. I think fewer programs would've meant less stress on her hip.

Yes. I was there, and Kwan was, well, off. (Many skaters were: overall, it felt like a weaker competition than Dortmund.) She could have been equally off in the SP, or Kostner might not have seen the results of the quali and felt confident that the judges would reward her over Kwan going into the SP, given that in the last year of the old system the year before, Kwan placed higher than Kostner and Sebestyen in the SP, which, IMO, never should have happened. So she might have skated worse in the SP. Or, or, or.

As it was, the difference between Kwan's and Kostner's scores in the SP and FS in 2005 were less than 1 pt/program and 1.09 in total, so just a few marks here or there could have changed the result. It's not like Kwan was in a huge ditch after the quali and was so much better than Kostner in the SP and FS.

 

[Sylvia]

ICYMI in the Holiday shows thread... link to watch Gracie's exhibition program at the Tree Lighting show outdoors in Providence, Rhode Island on Dec. 3, 2021 (she includes a cool inside Axel -- right forward inside edge takeoff -- early on which used to be seen quite often as a warmup move by Russian skaters): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDgo64Apnqg&t=2465s