U.S. Ladies [#27]: A Time to Reboot

DreamSkates

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Polina Edmunds has all her jumps, but not a clean triple-triple... yet. I think she's showcased a 3F+3T, 2A+3T, 3Lz+2T, 3Lo, and 3S on her Instagram. Best of luck to her. Imagine having Karen, Bradie, Mariah, Alysa, Hanna, Ting, Gracie, and Polina at Nationals in 2020. Talent overload.
I'll take it! I get to go to Nationals in Jan.! (at least, that's the current plan...)
 

natsulian

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Well, after the SP of France US ladies still need another reboot.

LOL

Stay positive, ANL, Stay Positive!

:)
Everyone underperformed. Kamila fell on her combo, Hanna fell on her combo, Calista fell on her combo, and many of the girls had under-rotation problems.

Also, Calista over-rotated her 3Lz and lost the timing.
 
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all_empty

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Well, after the SP of France US ladies still need another reboot.

LOL

Stay positive, ANL, Stay Positive!

:)
Points-wise Hannah's not too far back -- just 2 points behind Nana Araki who is in fourth. I think a top 4-5 placement would be very respectable for her in this field.

It's tough for these juniors who have a very long season to find their pacing. If she can get their levels up (both she and Calista got level three on their steps and combo spins), that will help bridge the gap.
 

oleada

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I think Hanna should drop the 'tano in the combo to help her land it more consistently.
 

natsulian

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401
Hanna and Ting are late season bloomers. I don’t understand why the US Federation is sending Hanna to early season Junior Grand Prix events. She should’ve started her season at the Challenger then went to the last Junior Grand Prix events. I don’t think it’s even nerves for Hanna, probably just the altitude and loss of control on her insane 3Lz.

People were pleasantly surprised by Calista Choi. I saw a lot of people talking about how good her skating skills and edges are. Even Ted was kind of shook.

Best of luck to both ladies. Let’s hope Hanna figures it out by the time senior season rolls around next year because that’s where it matters, not the junior level as much.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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Hanna started her jgp late last season, finishing 7th
Hanna initially was assigned to an earlier JGP last year but, due to injury, she ended up going to the 7th and final one.
 

Carolla5501

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Hanna and Ting are late season bloomers. I don’t understand why the US Federation is sending Hanna to early season Junior Grand Prix events. She should’ve started her season at the Challenger then went to the last Junior Grand Prix events. I don’t think it’s even nerves for Hanna, probably just the altitude and loss of control on her insane 3Lz.

People were pleasantly surprised by Calista Choi. I saw a lot of people talking about how good her skating skills and edges are. Even Ted was kind of shook.

Best of luck to both ladies. Let’s hope Hanna figures it out by the time senior season rolls around next year because that’s where it matters, not the junior level as much.

Folks the new model is "don't just peak for Nationals" (Ask Ross Minor). Skaters need to develop the skills to meet that.
 

oleada

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Hanna and Ting are late season bloomers. I don’t understand why the US Federation is sending Hanna to early season Junior Grand Prix events. She should’ve started her season at the Challenger then went to the last Junior Grand Prix events. I don’t think it’s even nerves for Hanna, probably just the altitude and loss of control on her insane 3Lz.

I love Hanna's skating but she's never been consistent so this result isn't super surprising.
 

AxelAnnie

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11,309
Hanna and Ting are late season bloomers. I don’t understand why the US Federation is sending Hanna to early season Junior Grand Prix events. She should’ve started her season at the Challenger then went to the last Junior Grand Prix events. I don’t think it’s even nerves for Hanna, probably just the altitude and loss of control on her insane 3Lz.

People were pleasantly surprised by Calista Choi. I saw a lot of people talking about how good her skating skills and edges are. Even Ted was kind of shook.

Best of luck to both ladies. Let’s hope Hanna figures it out by the time senior season rolls around next year because that’s where it matters, not the junior level as much.
I think it matters every time you step on the ice.

I take issue with the "late bloomers" justification. Everyone gets better as the season goes on. IMO "late bloomer" means you did not start early enough to be great at your first event.

Don't see the Russian girls waiting to bloom later. They come prepared to win, and they make sure to bring their outstanding skating skills.
 

tylersf

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392
I'm wishing the best for Gracie this season. It's time for her to put the past behind (bad skates, family issues, personal/psychological problems, coaching, rumors etc.) and stay on the positive track that she is on!

I‘d be very happy to see Gracie competitive again.
She will have to go through Sectionals etc this year?
Is she assigned any Senior Bs?
 

Dobre

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Hanna and Ting are late season bloomers. I don’t understand why the US Federation is sending Hanna to early season Junior Grand Prix events. She should’ve started her season at the Challenger then went to the last Junior Grand Prix events. I don’t think it’s even nerves for Hanna, probably just the altitude and loss of control on her insane 3Lz.
Maybe USFS or her team would like Hanna to be ready by the end of the season so they are putting her out into competition now. (She skated pretty much the same at her event at the end of the JGP last year). Hanna has always jumped like this. Big jumps & big misses. It's happened at 2 of her last 3 Nationals so I'm not sure I would describe her as a late-season skater; but she did do very well at the end of last season. And it is very likely that she will grow stronger as the season continues.

Have you been seeing Hanna do the combo without the tano? And performing said combo well? It seems to me she's always been tanoing so I would think it would be comfortable for her; but I haven't paid attention to this specific tano on this specific jump element in particular. And probably you have so this is why I ask.

Ummm... Hanna is VERY consistent. She has consistently placed 7th in her JGP events. :saint:
True. Last year she had problems on the same four jump elements at the Armenia JGP as well.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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Hanna Harrell's 7th place FS in Courchevel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sadLIX0kE84
Jumps: Rippon 3Lz+Ripp 3T< fall, Ripp 3Lo< fall, Ripp 3Lz good flow out, 2A / Ripp 3F+'tano 2T, 2A+half loop+Ripp 3S< fall, Ripp 3F. 7 triples attempted, 4 landed, 3 falls on jumps called underrotated.
Spins were called FSSp4, CCoSp3V, LSp4; StSq3 footwork.
103.79 FS, 160.50 total.
 

Edgecase

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Hanna Harrell's 7th place FS in Courchevel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sadLIX0kE84
Jumps: Rippon 3Lz+Ripp 3T< fall, Ripp 3Lo< fall, Ripp 3Lz good flow out, 2A / Ripp 3F+'tano 2T, 2A+half loop+Ripp 3S< fall, Ripp 3F. 7 triples attempted, 4 landed, 3 falls on jumps called underrotated.
Spins were called FSSp4, CCoSp3V, LSp4; StSq3 footwork.
103.79 FS, 160.50 total.
Hmm so they counted the loop as a fall and not a step-out...is that a new rule that I missed?

She has wonderful jumps when she hits them but that first fall seemed to suck the life and the choreography out of the rest of the program
 

Jammers

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Hanna needs to stop with the Rippon over the head jumps it's obvious that they are to hard for her. Those kind of jumps are for teeny tiny girls and Hanna is more like Kaetlyn Osmond with the strength and raw power she has with her jumps.
 

Carolla5501

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They should start deducting points for overusing that hand over the head move.

And Hanna's coaches need to step back and quit trying for "extra points". If she can only do the jump with her hand over her head then someone failed on basic technique. All she's doing is making her falls look worse as we all see her falling with the "trick" and thinking "she's not good enough to consistently do the 'trick'"
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Hanna Harrell's 7th place FS in Courchevel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sadLIX0kE84
Jumps: Rippon 3Lz+Ripp 3T< fall, Ripp 3Lo< fall, Ripp 3Lz good flow out, 2A / Ripp 3F+'tano 2T, 2A+half loop+Ripp 3S< fall, Ripp 3F. 7 triples attempted, 4 landed, 3 falls on jumps called underrotated.
Spins were called FSSp4, CCoSp3V, LSp4; StSq3 footwork.
103.79 FS, 160.50 total.
Thats a whole lotta Ripps.
 

jlai

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Maybe USFS or her team would like Hanna to be ready by the end of the season so they are putting her out into competition now. (She skated pretty much the same at her event at the end of the JGP last year). Hanna has always jumped like this. Big jumps & big misses. It's happened at 2 of her last 3 Nationals so I'm not sure I would describe her as a late-season skater; but she did do very well at the end of last season. And it is very likely that she will grow stronger as the season continues.

Have you been seeing Hanna do the combo without the tano? And performing said combo well? It seems to me she's always been tanoing so I would think it would be comfortable for her; but I haven't paid attention to this specific tano on this specific jump element in particular. And probably you have so this is why I ask.



True. Last year she had problems on the same four jump elements at the Armenia JGP as well.
I seem to remember some news coverage that says Hanna was advised against tanoing, but she loves it she does them. Or something like that.
 

Willin

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Hanna needs to stop with the Rippon over the head jumps it's obvious that they are to hard for her. Those kind of jumps are for teeny tiny girls and Hanna is more like Kaetlyn Osmond with the strength and raw power she has with her jumps.
They should start deducting points for overusing that hand over the head move.

And Hanna's coaches need to step back and quit trying for "extra points". If she can only do the jump with her hand over her head then someone failed on basic technique. All she's doing is making her falls look worse as we all see her falling with the "trick" and thinking "she's not good enough to consistently do the 'trick'"
The arms over the head have already been removed as a GOE bullet point, so they're not worth extra any more - or not worth nearly as much extra per jump. She might get 0.5 points bonuse per jump (very generously 1-2 points per program), but with all the points she's losing from the falls and -GOE (4+ lost points here), it's definitely not worth it. Here that extra 4 points would've moved her up one rank - the 1-2 points beyond that would've made no difference. Add on the +GOE on those 4 falls if they were landed and the value of the 3T of the SP combo and she may have moved up to 4th or 5th.

When she doesn't do the arms she's the best young jumper we have. When she tries them she simply lives up to the US ladies stereotype of flopping. Idk if she's stubborn or what but someone needs to talk some sense into her team.

But really I hope I don't have to keep making new jokes this season about the US ladies. Today when I saw the result all I could think of was: "The US Ladies and URs: name a more iconic duo"
 

natsulian

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I seem to remember some news coverage that says Hanna was advised against tanoing, but she loves it she does them. Or something like that.
You are correct. During an interview with her coaches, they said that they told her to STOP doing the arm variations, but she loved them so much that she did not listen. The unfortunate thing is, Hanna usually under-rotates when she does the arm variation or falls. I do believe that Hanna needs to stop, but her jumps look exquisite when she hits them.

Also, people have to remember that Hanna only turned 15 and she's not the most experienced skater internationally, especially after her big break which only came last year. As for Calista, this is her Junior Grand Prix debut and nobody should really have expectations of her. Calista caught the attention of the judges and should now start on reaping what she has sown. Calista earned one of the highest components (especially on the step sequence) and her 3Lz was in my opinion, second to maybe Hanna's.

This is a good learning point for Hanna who will surely move on and come out stronger. Unless ALL of our junior ladies suddenly started self combusting, this event is not the end of the world. It may be disheartening to see someone such as Hanna, who some saw as a frontrunner for the Junior Grand Prix Final, fall apart, but this is only the beginning. I like to think of the Junior Grand Prix as the testing ground and the senior Grand Prix as the actual battlefield where everything one does matters. Now, if Hanna goes to her Challenger next month and bombs then bombs her second Junior Grand Prix, then we can start getting nervous, but I'm not counting her out yet until she turns senior.

NOTE: Alysa Liu will be performing alongside Mirai Nagasu, Ashley Wagner, and various athletes from across the globe at the Aurora Games where she will be skating to her new Free Program and old Short on the same day. The event can be streamed on CBC Canada and ESPN, but I'm not sure on which branch for the latter. A press conference was recently held and Liu talked about her summer training and working on learning from the older athletes to perform in a more "mature" manner.

Article: https://www.timesunion.com/sports/article/14-year-old-national-champion-next-up-in-Aurora-14374030.php
 
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sk9tingfan

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You are correct. During an interview with her coaches, they said that they told her to STOP doing the arm variations, but she loved them so much that she did not listen. The unfortunate thing is, Hanna usually under-rotates when she does the arm variation or falls. I do believe that Hanna needs to stop, but her jumps look exquisite when she hits them.

Also, people have to remember that Hanna only turned 15 and she's not the most experienced skater internationally, especially after her big break which only came last year. As for Calista, this is her Junior Grand Prix debut and nobody should really have expectations of her. Calista caught the attention of the judges and should now start on reaping what she has sown. Calista earned one of the highest components (especially on the step sequence) and her 3Lz was in my opinion, second to maybe Hanna's.

This is a good learning point for Hanna who will surely move on and come out stronger. Unless ALL of our junior ladies suddenly started self combusting, this event is not the end of the world. It may be disheartening to see someone such as Hanna, who some saw as a frontrunner for the Junior Grand Prix Final, fall apart, but this is only the beginning. I like to think of the Junior Grand Prix as the testing ground and the senior Grand Prix as the actual battlefield where everything one does matters. Now, if Hanna goes to her Challenger next month and bombs then bombs her second Junior Grand Prix, then we can start getting nervous, but I'm not counting her out yet until she turns senior.

NOTE: Alysa Liu will be performing alongside Mirai Nagasu, Ashley Wagner, and various athletes from across the globe at the Aurora Games where she will be skating to her new Free Program and old Short on the same day. The event can be streamed on CBC Canada and ESPN, but I'm not sure on which branch for the latter. A press conference was recently held and Liu talked about her summer training and working on learning from the older athletes to perform in a more "mature" manner.

Article: https://www.timesunion.com/sports/article/14-year-old-national-champion-next-up-in-Aurora-14374030.php
The ESPN branch is ESPNU and for Comcast in my market, the number is 1301. I'm recording it but I will also be there in person! Very excited to be able to do so!
 

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