U.S. Ladies [#25]: Method in the Madness

[Joubabe]

Amber Glenn's name appeared on the Challenge Cup list today. Laura Jacobson (4th in Novice at Nationals) will make her international debut in Advanced Novice. Dates are Feb. 21-24 in The Hague. USFS' International Assignments page has added the Bavarian Open assignments; Challenge Cup is still to be confirmed there.

Yeah, Amber!!!!!

 

[aftershocks]

Anyone With internet access during Kwans days knows she had media attention. Spotlight was also on her as alternate for Olympics. Figure skating was hugely popular in the us for kwans days and she was household name. No comparison with Alysa at all

Right, exactly. There's no comparison between Alysa Liu and Michelle Kwan because times are different and these two phenoms are not the same and neither will be their separate arcs and journeys in the sport. That was my point, because earlier @kwanatic was comparing the two as if their situations are very similar, but they are not. Even the media attention was different in a different time. The Internet phenomenon was certainly growing as Kwan's popularity began to grow, which is interesting in and of itself. But there was nothing like the Internet world and social media excess we have today. There was a confluence of events which precipitated the popularity the sport was receiving in the U.S. during the time of MK's rise circa 1996 and onward. Part of that attention had begun to accumulate post the whack heard around the world two years earlier (i.e., the infamous 1994 U.S. Nats and Olympics).

Just stating that MK had media attention and was named an alternate to the Olympics doesn't equate to the hype Alysa Liu is undergoing at the moment, what with being singled out for a trip to the GPF, and appearing on a night time network talk show. MK's rise in popularity and becoming a household name was gradual, not instantaneous and hype-driven.

As I previously pointed out, MK first received a lot of public attention when she defied her coach to take the senior test and compete at senior Nationals at the age of 12. She landed in 6th place that year (1993) at senior Nats, instead of having stayed in juniors to possibly win a junior national championship (in 1992, she'd placed 9th in juniors). So MK was very eager to move forward with high level competition, and she was definitely focused and driven. That's where Liu and MK may share some similarities, but it still took MK some time before she was rewarded with championships for her precocious talent.

When MK became highly visible among the public consciousness, she was viewed as simply a talented jumping bean, not as someone who was going to have the legendary career she ultimately achieved. Post-Kwan, there have unfortunately existed a slew of over-expectations and fruitless anticipations for someone else to take up MK's dominant mantle. It hasn't happened yet, neither in the U.S., nor internationally.

 

[aftershocks]

Yeah, Amber!!!!!

Cool! I hope Amber shakes off any down feelings and continues to push forward and conquer her competitive nerves.

 

[sjs5572]

Right, exactly. There's no comparison between Alysa Liu and Michelle Kwan because times are different and these two phenoms are not the same and neither will be their separate arcs and journeys in the sport. That was my point, because earlier @kwanatic was comparing the two as if their situations are very similar, but they are not. Even the media attention was different in a different time. The Internet phenomenon was certainly growing as Kwan's popularity began to grow, which is interesting in and of itself. But there was nothing like the Internet world and social media excess we have today. There was a confluence of events which precipitated the popularity the sport was receiving in the U.S. during the time of MK's rise circa 1996 and onward. Part of that attention had begun to accumulate post the whack heard around the world two years earlier (i.e., the infamous 1994 U.S. Nats and Olympics).

Just stating that MK had media attention and was named an alternate to the Olympics doesn't equate to the hype Alysa Liu is undergoing at the moment, what with being singled out for a trip to the GPF, and appearing on a night time network talk show. MK's rise in popularity and becoming a household name was gradual, not instantaneous and hype-driven.

As I previously pointed out, MK first received a lot of public attention when she defied her coach to take the senior test and compete at senior Nationals at the age of 12. She landed in 6th place that year (1993) at senior Nats, instead of having stayed in juniors to possibly win a junior national championship (in 1992, she'd placed 9th in juniors). So MK was very eager to move forward with high level competition, and she was definitely focused and driven. That's where Liu and MK may share some similarities, but it still took MK some time before she was rewarded with championships for her precocious talent.

When MK became highly visible among the public consciousness, she was viewed as simply a talented jumping bean, not as someone who was going to have the legendary career she ultimately achieved. Post-Kwan, there have unfortunately existed a slew of over-expectations and fruitless anticipations for someone else to take up MK's dominant mantle. It hasn't happened yet, neither in the U.S., nor internationally.

Liu got the Late Show for landing three triple axels and becoming the youngest US Gold medalist in history. She is also so darn cute! I am grateful for the attention that US Figure Skating is getting in a non-Olympics year.

 

[Sylvia]

Article on Alysa's return to her home rink by Ann Killion: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/...-phenom-Alysa-Liu-returns-home-a-13577995.php

Alysa Liu’s first day back home after becoming the youngest person to ever win a national figure skating championship began with an hour of practice at Oakland Ice, a smile lighting up her face the entire time.
As she exited the rink, she was followed by a swarm of cameras, reporters and other adults with their phones out, taking pictures. She headed straight to a group of her friends, started giggling, and pulled out her favorite thing
Not her gold medal. A big jar of turquoise-colored homemade slime.
“I love it,” she said of playing with the sticky substance.

Local TV report: https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/01/31/us-figure-skating-champ-alysa-liu-oakland/

ETA: https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/02...-jimmy-fallon-skate-star-returns-to-bay-area/

 

[sk8rgurl11]

Will Sierra Venetta be in the isp next year?

 

[Sylvia]

Will Sierra Venetta be in the isp next year?

This will not be known until USFS determines a "minimum total score" for senior ladies (and the other disciplines/levels) for the 2019-20 season. I assume it will happen by this spring (eta: around mid-April?).

I really enjoyed Venetta's SP to Beethoven’s 5th piano concerto ('Emperor') at Nationals - I believe she and/or Jeff Buttle choreographed her programs? Her 11th place FS moved Sierra up to 12th overall. 1978 World men's champion Charlie Tickner was one of the coaches sitting in the kiss & cry, along with Jeff Crandell and, IIRC, Christy Krall was there after her SP.

 

[sk8rgurl11]

This will not be known until USFS determines a "minimum total score" for senior ladies (and the other disciplines/levels) for the 2019-20 season. I assume it will happen by this spring.

I really enjoyed Venetta's SP to Beethoven’s 5th piano concerto ('Emperor') at Nationals - I believe she and/or Jeff Buttle choreographed her programs? Her 11th place FS moved Sierra up to 12th overall. 1978 World men's champion Charlie Tickner was one of the coaches sitting in the kiss & cry, along with Jeff Crandell and, IIRC, Christy Krall was there after her SP.

Thank you Sylvia.
I was also wondering if a skater did not make it to nationals and are on the ISP list, are they usually taken out for the next year?

 

[Debbie S]

I was also wondering if a skater did not make it to nationals and are on the ISP list, are they usually taken out for the next year?

That depends on many things - the skater's competitive history, particularly their previous internationals, how they perform in spring and summer comps, etc. And of course, skaters not initially in the ISP can be added based on comp performance over the summer. I would expect both Karen and Gracie to be in the ISP - if they skate well over the summer, they could be assigned a Senior B or potentially a SA spot.

 

[Sylvia]

I was also wondering if a skater did not make it to nationals and are on the ISP list, are they usually taken out for the next year?

It may depend on whether or not total scores from the Sectional Championships (November 2018) and/or Regionals (October 2018) will count for the upcoming season.

As @Debbie S mentioned above, skaters (senior & junior) are given the opportunity to be added to the ISP during the club competition season; ditto for the younger skaters in the Athlete High Performance Development Pool (AHPDP).

 

[sjs5572]

Article on Alysa's return to her home rink by Ann Killion: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/...-phenom-Alysa-Liu-returns-home-a-13577995.php

Local TV report: https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/01/31/us-figure-skating-champ-alysa-liu-oakland/

ETA: https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/02...-jimmy-fallon-skate-star-returns-to-bay-area/

Sylvia....thank you so much for all of the work you do researching and posting. You are truly a wonderful "behind the scenes" asset to US Figure Skating.

 

[Sylvia]

You're welcome, @sjs5572 (just clarifying - I have no formal affiliation with USFS).

Alysa Liu has been nominated, not surprisingly, for Team USA's "Best of January 2019" award - you can vote online here (Nathan is nominated as well): https://awards.teamusa.org/vote

 

[Sylvia]

Pooja Kalyan has posted on her IG about the injury that forced her to withdraw after her SP at Nationals: <link snipped out>
Best Healing Wishes to her!

ETA - sorry, I didn't realize her IG setting is private -- hope it's okay to share her message (Feb. 1st was National #GetUp Day):

Happy #nationalgetupday! Last week, I made my senior debut at US Nationals. I skated a clean short program, but due to a stress fracture in my spine, I had to withdraw from the freeskate. The immense support from my school and club is what propelled me through the short. Thank you to everyone who has supported me and Brad for the beautiful dresses, and congrats to all that competed! Adversity makes us stronger, and I am ready to come back better than ever!

 

[maureenfarone]

Pooja Kalyan has posted on her IG about the injury that forced her to withdraw after her SP at Nationals: https://www.instagram.com/p/BtXUJkfHRHwy_g6nYjSk5y-aqcWhhyvxg6lER00/
Best Healing Wishes to her!

The account is set to private so I can't read the post. Whatever the injury, I wish her the best. I enjoyed her SP!

 

[Jarrett]

Pooja Kalyan has posted on her IG about the injury that forced her to withdraw after her SP at Nationals: <link snipped out>
Best Healing Wishes to her!

ETA - sorry, I didn't realize her IG setting is private -- hope it's okay to share her message (Feb. 1st was National #GetUp Day):

Pooja was one of the reasons I was looking forward to being at Nationals so it was very sad to see the WD next to her name when we got there for the long. I hope she heals up well.

 

[aftershocks]

Liu got the Late Show for landing three triple axels and becoming the youngest US Gold medalist in history. She is also so darn cute! I am grateful for the attention that US Figure Skating is getting in a non-Olympics year.

Yes, Liu is definitely cute and very talented. Her second 3-axel in the fp was under-rotated but not called, in addition to possibly 2 other URs in the fp. Eh, re US figure skating getting attention in a non-Olympics year. Liu is the one receiving the attention, and it doesn't necessarily translate into in-depth interest in and increased understanding of the sport of figure skating/ U.S. skaters; increased fs fandom in the U.S.; and/or increased fs event ticket sales in the U.S. Just ask Adam Rippon.

It would be nice if some of the attention was being used to help market 4CCs in Anaheim, but I doubt that's happening. In any case, Liu won't be there, unless USFS decides to send her yet again for photo-ops and the 'experience' of viewing from the audience.

I think it's always a good idea not to nurture only one egg in one basket, or put all one's eggs in one basket.

 

[aftershocks]

Cries? She's showing her age and is too frail for this high-pressure sport. Let the skaters be.

Eh, right. Skaters can go on crying jags out of an overwhelming mix of emotions, including relief and joy. Liu's post-performance reaction immediately reminded me of Starr Andrews post her fp at 2018 U.S. Nationals, and MK's post-performance reaction after her fp at 1994 Worlds, and Midori Ito's post-performance reaction after her fp at 1989 Worlds.

 

[insideedgeua]

It would be nice if some of the attention was being used to help market 4CCs in Anaheim, but I doubt that's happening. In any case, Liu won't be there, unless USFS decides to send her yet again for photo-ops and the 'experience' of viewing from the audience.

According to one of the 4CC threads, Alysa will be skating in the opening ceremony.

 

[aftershocks]

According to one of the 4CC threads, Alysa will be skating in the opening ceremony.

Okay, it figures. But that's not marketing for ticket sales, unless they are actually widely promoting that fact ahead of the event. Also, I think it's pretty desperate for US fed to place all their chips on a 13-year-old who is still developing and who can't compete in seniors internationally for two years. US judges did not call Liu's URs, but ISU judges likely will, even for borderline URs. In any case, the entire sport is rather random and inconsistent in judges' scoring and tech calls from event-to-event.

And these articles that are being written in an attempt to pump up Alysa Liu as a possible savior for U.S. figure skating, before she's even really ready for prime time, eg., "Can Nathan Chen & Alysa Liu Lead an American Skating Rebound." https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019...n-alysa-liu-lead-an-american-skating-rebound/
First of all, Nathan is much further ahead and more accomplished than Liu *, so he's already had an impact on pushing forward the U.S. men's discipline in terms of earning Worlds and Olympics spots, and wider recognition (*Fortunately, the article acknowledges that fact, at the same time they are still hyping Liu). Such OTT bs from Tara Lipinski quoted in this article. There are too many factors involved to place the 'rebound' of the sport in the U.S. only on the shoulders of Liu and NChen. Plus, Liu is not even close to being on Chen's level at the moment re experience, maturity, and international accomplishments!

If the U.S. is interested in promoting junior level skaters as current stars who are going to lead the sport in the U.S. into the future, they need to be promoting our junior ice dance athletes, and the senior ice dance athletes who have to wait in the wings because there's so much talent and depth in U.S. ice dance! Why isn't anyone trying to promote the ice dance discipline? Because it isn't seen as 'macho' enough with groovy, attention-grabbing tech feats?

The fed is missing the boat with the fixated over-attention on Liu. They should spread some of the attention around to Bradie & Mariah who will have to do more than hold the fort for two years, and to Ting Cui and Hanna Harrell who might be more complete skaters than Liu (certainly their tech is well-rounded and their performance value is greater than Liu's right now). Harrell and Cui (in addition to the Russians, Japanese, and South Korean ladies) will most certainly be a huge challenge for Liu in the years ahead.

Take away Liu's 3-axels and she's just a competent jumper/ average skater aesthetically. If ladies figure skating is going to be all about 3-axels and quads at the expense of sound, consistent skating and aesthetic presentation skills, that's a problem. And that's not what the new scoring system was supposedly designed to foster.

 

[Japanfan]

And these articles that are being written in an attempt to pump up Alysa Liu as a possible savior for U.S. figure skating, before she's even really ready for prime time

And it's so unwise.

Plus, Liu is not even close to being on Chen's level at the moment re experience, maturity, and international accomplishments!

The fed is missing the boat with the fixated over-attention on Liu.

Take away Liu's 3-axels and she's just a competent jumper/ average skater aesthetically. If ladies figure skating is going to be all about 3-axels and quads at the expense of sound, consistent skating and aesthetic presentation skills, that's a problem. And that's not what the new scoring system was supposedly designed to foster.

Liu is a girl. She skates like a junior girl - which is what she is - and is not mature for her age.

TPTB in FS really need to remain cognizant that pre-pubescent girls with 3As and quads may not retain those jumps after puberty.

I'm fine with a lot of noise being made about women landing 3As and quads. Women - not girls.

 

[Finsta]

Why make such big deal over this girls not getting UR called at Nationals. The reigning Olympic champion had uncalled URs all season and no uproars like this.

 

[aftershocks]

Why make such big deal over this girls not getting UR called at Nationals. The reigning Olympic champion had uncalled URs all season and no uproars like this.

Yeah, the judging and tech calls are totally inconsistent from event-to-event. They even called a borderline UR on Javi Fernandez, of all skaters, at Euros in the sp. Possibly, there may be the usual ubiquitous U.S. ladies detractors now in here adding to the Liu critiques, because they don't want U.S. ladies to rise again and challenge Russian and Japanese ladies' dominance. But I'm not criticizing Liu, I'm criticizing the way her talent is being handled and over-hyped.

As far as no uproars, I was uproaring up a storm all last season, within reason. Seriously, I may have been in the minority, but I was not the only one who wondered why it was a foregone conclusion that only Zag and Med were in the running for Olympic gold last season. Granted that Osmond didn't slam-bam those two when she had the chance, but she was always clearly a better jumper with superior speed and vastly superior aesthetic talent! There were plenty of other ladies who surpassed Zag and Med in various categories, but unfortunately the relative consistency of Zag and Med along with the bells and whistles, fast rotations, and championship rep combined with Rus-fed politics, hype, and TPTB falling in line, handed them the 1-2 prestige and conclusive expectation at the Olympics.

BTW, the 'big deal' in Liu's case is that she's not going to get 'kid-glove' treatment internationally. Pun not intended, but it sure is apt.

Bottom line, the sport is so random, unprofessional and over-hyped in areas where they shouldn't be over-hyping, while problem areas are mismanaged and/or ignored. I don't know why I continue to pull my hair out over the way the sport is run. The lack of common sense and professionalism is so annoying. All I can do is try to enjoy what truly makes the sport special. And believe me, no way is it that special watching any of the teenyboppers beating up their bodies rotating and under-rotating 3-axels and quads, with OTT pcs scores being thrown at them.

Those who do enjoy and eat up such misguidedly over-hyped spectacles, continue on as you will. Sure Alysa Liu is way cute and talented and articulate for her age. I'm just not in a mood to precipitously over aggrandize the precocious tech feats of a 13-year-old, when there are so many talented senior skaters with amazing stories and accomplishments who deserve at least a modicum of better organized and widespread attention and promotion. I think TPTB are somehow either embarrassed by or totally misunderstand the compelling factors and aspects that actually draw people in and make fs a great sport. Or else, it's a combination of mismanagement, lack of understanding and cluelessness by TPTB.

 

[kwanatic]

 

[dee342]

I can't get to your site https://www.thenakedice.blogspot.com/. I get an error message "Connection not private". Do you have ssl installed?

 

[aftershocks]

Bang bang bang away @kwanatic. To each their own. Have a happy.

 

[kwanatic]

I can't get to your site https://www.thenakedice.blogspot.com/. I get an error message "Connection not private". Do you have ssl installed?

Not too sure what's going on there. I can get to it when I type http://thenakedice.blogspot.com/ but for some reason it's not working. I'm not sure what I have installed to be honest, lol. I just go by whatever blogger recommended. I'll check it out once I get home.

Thanks for the heads up @dee342

 

[skatingguy]

Why make such big deal over this girls not getting UR called at Nationals. The reigning Olympic champion had uncalled URs all season and no uproars like this.

Paging @Tony Wheeler - You obviously haven't read the Russian thread - on second thought probably best to avoid that - needless to say Zagitova's under-rotated jumps and the lack of calls at some competitions have been discussed all season.

 

[Japanfan]

Sure Alysa Liu is way cute and talented and articulate for her age.

I wouldn't use those three words to describe Alysa. TBH, I don't find her or her skating very interesting.

I don't think she is *especially* cute, nor articulate (wailing in the K&C is certainly not a sign of an articulate, composed person). She is certainly talented as a figure skater, but I don't know how much having the 3A at age 13 means in terms of her being more talented than peers who do not have the 3A.

As I said above, she's a junior girl.

Guess I'm not yet won over as a fan.

 

[Finsta]

I wouldn't use those three words to describe Alysa. TBH, I don't find her or her skating very interesting.

I don't think she is *especially* cute, nor articulate (wailing in the K&C is certainly not a sign of an articulate, composed person). She is certainly talented as a figure skater, but I don't know how much having the 3A at age 13 means in terms of her being more talented than peers who do not have the 3A.

As I said above, she's a junior girl.

Guess I'm not yet won over as a fan.

My US universe friend watched and he said she such a Whiney baby- look at her crying like that. . she’s young. Cute. Yes. She is cute.

 

[kwanatic]

Not too sure what's going on there. I can get to it when I type http://thenakedice.blogspot.com/ but for some reason it's not working. I'm not sure what I have installed to be honest, lol. I just go by whatever blogger recommended. I'll check it out once I get home.

Thanks for the heads up @dee342

Just checked it. Everything should be working now (fingers crossed!).