U.S. Ladies [#25]: Method in the Madness

[UGG]

I just watched the press conference after the ladies LP and omg it seemed like Bradie would rather have a tooth pulled than complement/acknowledge Alysa. She looked so uncomfortable.

 

[alchemy void]

Good lord, some people here seriously need to chillax...

I know we as figure skating fans are cautious with younger skaters (as we should be), but why can't Alysa celebrate what she did without people questioning her future in the sport or wanting to put her in a bubble or proclaiming the hype is going to wreck her before she gets started? She's 13 and she just made history... Let her bask in the glow of that success for at least a week before we go back to predicting her imminent demise at the hands of puberty/pressure/over-hype/etc.

Personally I think it's awesome she's getting to do press and interviews and appearances right now. Lest we forget, people tend to not give two craps about skating in this country unless the Olympics are 2 weeks away. The fact a figure skater is appearing on national morning shows and late night television is a reason to celebrate IMO. Maybe people will see her, like her and then follow her career for the next few years...maybe even learn about other skaters and develop an interest in them or the sport.

Time will tell the story with Alysa as it will with all of these young skaters. Let's just enjoy and celebrate them and what they accomplish now and not worry so much about what will happen down the road.

Fantastic post @kwanatic, stated much more eloquently than I ever could. Getting any non-Tonya figure skating mainstream publicity is so rare in the US today, so this is amazing that Liu is getting publicity.

Enjoy her accomplishment at nationals, and stop worrying about every little "what if". I know I can't wait for the JGP next season.

 

[wickedwitch]

I think it's possible to be both excited that figure skating is getting publicity and also concerned that it might be too much for Alysa at the same time.

 

[kwanatic]

I think it's possible to be both excited that figure skating is getting publicity and also concerned that it might be too much for Alysa at the same time.

"Too much" is going to vary from person to person. Michelle had that same kind of press, exposure and subsequent hype (10x more considering she rose in the ranks right after the post-whack boom of skating in this country) and she went on to become a legend. Others have not fared as well...again, time will tell.

A few interviews and appearances the week after a win hardly seems like too much IMO. She has a good team of coaches, a loving father and family, and a good head on her shoulders. I definitely understand the concern...it's just premature less than a week after her win. If by next week she ends up with several multi-million dollar endorsements, a cover on TIME Magazine and "Stars on Ice" announces they will now be known as "Liu and Friends" I will be the first to request we pump the breaks.

 

[Joubabe]

We don’t know if something else might be going on, backed by the skater and her team.

I'm confused by your post. Are you referring to Glenn and her team or Andrews and her team. And what might be going on behind the scenes? Is Andrews' team lobbying for assignments or did Glenn's team aggravate someone on the selection committee or is just maybe too passive? I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm not part of the skating community so I don't know much about the politics.

I'm interested because I'm a huge fan of Amber's. I like all of the girls but Amber is the only one I can get really excited about since Ashley stepped away from competition. I just think Amber has a real "it" factor. And I don't get how she's so much more inconsistent than just about any of the other ladies. It seems that she can't live down that first Nationals as a senior when expectations were so high and IIRC, she popped most of her jumps. She worked hard to improve on that and has come a long way. I don't think what she did in the free skate this year was a meltdown by any means. She had a fall and a popped jump in the middle of her program, but came back with a strong 3F2T. I think that shows that with more competitive experience, she can get her nerves under control.

 

[Spun Silver]

I'm excited that with Alysa's sudden fame more young girls are going to be interested in skating. Same for Nathan and men's. The more the merrier.

 

[wickedwitch]

"Too much" is going to vary from person to person. Michelle had that same kind of press, exposure and subsequent hype (10x more considering she rose in the ranks right after the post-whack boom of skating in this country) and she went on to become a legend. Others have not fared as well...again, time will tell.

And that's why I said "might." It might be too much for her. It's a possibility, and since my reaction to Alysa is to feel like I should protect her at all costs, it's a concern of mine.

 

[clairecloutier]

FWIW, the USFS communications director tweeted that he’s never seen anyone as excited to do interviews as Alysa.

 

[Sylvia]

I just watched the press conference after the ladies LP and omg it seemed like Bradie would rather have a tooth pulled than complement/acknowledge Alysa. She looked so uncomfortable.

I disagree. Bradie tends to be very low key in press conferences/interviews and prefers to focus on talking about her own skating. People can judge for themselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEggekQ0Nyw

Post-SP ladies' press conference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEggekQ0Nyw

ETA that this photo from the awards ceremony has been seen widely : https://www.instagram.com/p/BtOhTUAgHBJ/

 

[mag]

ETA that this photo from the awards ceremony has been seen widely : https://www.instagram.com/p/BtOhTUAgHBJ/

Mariah Bell’s arms - #goals!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I disagree. Bradie tends to be very low key in press conferences/interviews and prefers to focus on talking about her own skating. People can judge for themselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEggekQ0Nyw

Post-SP ladies' press conference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEggekQ0Nyw

ETA that this photo from the awards ceremony has been seen widely : https://www.instagram.com/p/BtOhTUAgHBJ/

I agree with Sylvia. That's Bradie... and i like that about her... focus, nerves of steel, no nonsense... (you know, like an airline. lol)

XOXO

 

[PRlady]

As I've noted elsewhere, having recently gone through puberty and teenage-dom with two daughters who are not otherwise "cryers" -- and having lived at a skating rink filled with pre-teen and teen girls -- I can attest that years 11-14 are about the peak years for uncontrollable sobbing episodes.

Hurt on the ice, broken ponytail holder, boy crushes, camel spin not going well, wrong pair of tights, One Direction breaking up (or getting back together again) -- all can elicit pretty much the same abundance of tears, often along with howling and foot stomping and making declarations of life as they know it never being the same again.

Winning the US Championships in skating would, I think, be pretty in line with "good reasons" for 13 year olds crying and not necessarily indicative of anything more worrisome.

ETA: My husband cried when the Eagles won the Super Bowl and he didn't even play in it.

I had to chime in because my 93-year old stepdad cried for the Eagles too. The DeNiro character in Silver Linings Playbook is reality-based.

I raised two teenage stepdaughters in addition to my daughter and I agree that the crying bouts are frequent and unpredictable. I joked about Liu’s noisy crying just because it seemed positively normal to me. There were a lot of girls at Euros older than Alysa in tears coming off the ice, and Tarah Kayne is what, 12 years older?

 

[quartz]

56 here, and I still cry, mostly when I see other people cry, I join in!
For lost ponytail holders and boyfriend problems, I just cuss a lot.

Oh, and I cry pretty, so I really don’t care if anyone at me.

 

[UGG]

I had to chime in because my 93-year old stepdad cried for the Eagles too. The DeNiro character in Silver Linings Playbook is reality-based.

I raised two teenage stepdaughters in addition to my daughter and I agree that the crying bouts are frequent and unpredictable. I joked about Liu’s Noisy crying just because it seemed positively normal to me. There were a lot of girls at Euros older than Alysa in tears coming off the ice, and Tarah Kayne is what, 12 years older?

I also cried when the Eagles won. And I still cry watching replays

 

[Karen-W]

I also cried when the Eagles won. And I still cry watching replays

LOL! I can relate - I cried in 2010 when the SF Giants won their first World Series since moving west.

Alysa had a cute anecdote during her interview with Jimmy Fallon about her best friend recording her family's reaction to Alysa's free skate and how her friend kidded her about her crying. Alysa was laughing when she told her friend that she knew it was weird and she never wanted to see the video. Somehow, I'm guessing that this is one of those videos that her friend will still be kidding her about in twenty years (assuming they're still friends). So, no, I don't think there's any real cause for concern and she seems to have a pretty grounded support system. Hopefully that doesn't change.

 

[natsulian]

The people who over-analyze everything need to chill. Some people are just more emotional than others, its human nature. Being under the spotlight is tough enough, but imagine having every little thing you do be scrutinized? Tapes? Oh... that can only mean she was trained too hard and had an injury. A fall? Her training team must be terrible and literally depriving her of everything. Cries? She's showing her age and is too frail for this high-pressure sport. Let the skaters be. This is not just about Alysa either, it's about every skater who lives under the limelight. If we learned anything from the skaters who recently came out about battling against anorexia, bulimia, depression, etc... it is that we can participate in a little bit more chivalry and uphold their privacy and be POSITIVE. We should be analyzing them as athletes and conversing about what they put out on the ice. We are not their psychiatrists nor therapists.

 

[Sylvia]

3 U.S. ladies are on the entries list for the 2019 Bavarian Open in Oberstdorf, Germany (their events are scheduled to take place on Wed. Feb. 6 and Thursday Feb. 7).

Junior: Emilia Murdock - J3 at 2019 Nationals. She won the Junior silver medal in her international debut at Golden Bear in Zagreb this past October (behind Alena Kanysheva).

Advanced Novice Girls (international debuts for both):
Aubrey Ignacio (N2) - landed 5 of 6 planned triples cleanly in her Novice FS at Nationals, including two 3Lz.
Lindsay Thorngren (Int1) - landed one of her two 3Lz cleanly (went for 3Lz+3T<), along with two triple loops, incl. 3Lo+2T+2Lo, in her Intermediate FS at Nationals. She landed 3Lz+3T<, 3F (edge warning ! called) & 2A in her SP.

 

[Frau Muller]

I'm confused by your post. Are you referring to Glenn and her team or Andrews and her team. And what might be going on behind the scenes? Is Andrews' team lobbying for assignments or did Glenn's team aggravate someone on the selection committee or is just maybe too passive? I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm not part of the skating community so I don't know much about the politics.

I'm interested because I'm a huge fan of Amber's. I like all of the girls but Amber is the only one I can get really excited about since Ashley stepped away from competition. I just think Amber has a real "it" factor. And I don't get how she's so much more inconsistent than just about any of the other ladies. It seems that she can't live down that first Nationals as a senior when expectations were so high and IIRC, she popped most of her jumps. She worked hard to improve on that and has come a long way. I don't think what she did in the free skate this year was a meltdown by any means. She had a fall and a popped jump in the middle of her program, but came back with a strong 3F2T. I think that shows that with more competitive experience, she can get her nerves under control.

I was referring to Amber. We don’t know what might be going on in her family life, illnesses of loved ones, finances, etc. Not everyone can shut-out outside influences.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I just watched the press conference after the ladies LP and omg it seemed like Bradie would rather have a tooth pulled than complement/acknowledge Alysa. She looked so uncomfortable.

She is reserved in general, that's her style to stay demure and calm... even when she won nationals..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO0xx4umfLs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwPUUylOMUg

 

[Joubabe]

I was referring to Amber. We don’t know what might be going on in her family life, illnesses of loved ones, finances, etc. Not everyone can shut-out outside influences.

From what Johnny & Tara said, Amber was feeling prepared and confident. I think her only problems are lack of competive nerves from insufficient opportunities to compete and lack of federation support.

 

[Dobre]

From what Johnny & Tara said, Amber was feeling prepared and confident. I think her only problems are lack of competive nerves from insufficient opportunities to compete and lack of federation support.

She's had more than one opportunity over other athletes with equal or better results, which doesn't mean that she wouldn't benefit from further experience. But there are other young athletes now that have even higher technical base values and equal or better competitive records so she has her job cut out for her and needs to deliver.

 

[Coco]

She did show improvement from past Nationals, imo.

I would like to see her get a post Nationals assignment if she wants one. Wouldn't it help her raise her seasons best score, potentially?

 

[Marco]

Bradie, Mariah and Ting will face Kaori, Rika, Mai, Eunsoo, Elizabet T, Christy Leung etc to fight for top five. Very tough competition for medals - they better have their 3/3s ready.

 

[Dobre]

I would like to see her get a post Nationals assignment if she wants one.

They could send Amber to Challenge Cup, which is where they sent Caroline after she placed fifth at Nationals, I think. Or maybe even to Universiade? They don't usually send anyone, but it is on the assignments page this year.

 

[RoseRed]

She did show improvement from past Nationals, imo.

I would like to see her get a post Nationals assignment if she wants one. Wouldn't it help her raise her seasons best score, potentially?

The only events left that count for SB are 4CCs, JW, Worlds and WTT. So no, she won't be able to raise her SB. She could get a few WS points if she did well at a senior B.

 

[aftershocks]

In the case of U.S. ladies, there is no method in the madness. And now, perhaps I will go back and actually read the madness that resides in this current thread...

 

[aftershocks]

Michelle had that same kind of press, exposure and subsequent hype (10x more considering she rose in the ranks right after the post-whack boom of skating in this country) and she went on to become a legend.

I disagree in part. Michelle Kwan burst onto the senior national scene at age 12, and there were stories about it, but not the huge press, hype and attention Liu is now receiving. MK landed in 6th place at her first U.S. Nationals. The following season at 14, MK was 2nd (the year of the whack heard around the World). So once again, while MK received attention and interviews, the main focus of interest was not on her. She got to travel to the Olympics as first alternate just to soak it all up, waiting in the wings.

Then at Worlds that season, MK the cute jumping bean, began her historic arc by managing to land in 8th place and preserve two spots for U.S. ladies. But still the notoriety was within reason, and the hype was minimal. During the following season, 94-95, MK was now primed and ready for the spotlight, but Nicole Bobek who was a bit older and more polished artistically, with boffo leg extension on her signature spiral, was favored. Bobek was in position to win gold at Worlds, but she faltered to third place. MK arguably should have placed third or at least 4th, but she was kept back in 5th place because the judges were still in the mode of making young skaters wait their turn.

Also, lots of people forget that it was Nicole Bobek's gorgeous leg extension on her spiral which inspired and influenced MK to work hard at stretching and practicing to get her leg up higher on her spiral to the point where MK eventually owned it via creating her very own iconic inside outside edge wowser.

After 1995 Worlds, Frank Carroll knew that MK had to reinvent her look and become more mature in order to grab the judges' attention. And it worked. But MK also brought more depth and emotion to her skating with the help of Lori Nichol. Of course, the rest is history.

IOW, Michelle Kwan was made to wait her turn and she had to prove herself before she was feted and rewarded. And even after achieving success, MK had to continue to struggle against young up-and-comers and detractors and haters who envied her dominance. Not to mention all the struggles MK endured in the 96-97 season with boot problems and living up to expectations of being a champion, whilst being chased by 3/3 threat, Tara Lipinski. MK never really had it easy, despite her legendary feats. Plus, I think it was the fact of having to wait, and having to face so many challenges that honed MK's championship mettle.

Alysa Liu is hugely talented, but times are different now, and her arc is different. There's a little bit of putting the cart before the horse that's going on, IMHO. I also disagreed with Mirai Nagasu being awarded the National championship at age 14. As we know, the precipitous vault into the limelight was not helpful for Mirai. It could be that Liu will overcome all of the hype, over-attention and over-expectations, but it remains to be seen. Perhaps Liu will relish everything and slam dunk the odds, but it's not a given. Ting Cui and Hanna Harrell are also hugely talented and may benefit from not having a huge light shined on them at this time. Also, international judges will surely call URs and not ignore them as U.S. judges did for several of Liu's jumps in the fp.

At this current moment, I think Liu is competitive internationally, but I do not think right now she is as well-rounded and strong as Trusova, Kostornaia, or Shcherbakova. Rika Kihara who is slightly older is also right now a stronger skater with multiple 3-axels. Of course, as far as the Russian juniors, the jury is still out long term. And so for all the junior phenoms, including Liu, we watch and we wait. I hope the hypola is laid off of. Let skaters breathe and develop. Can we avoid the 'Nathan Chen pre-Olympics frenzy' please. Let Alysa Liu develop into Alysa Liu. She is not the second coming of Michelle Kwan. Truthfully, legendary Kwan was not 'Kween' right off the bat either, until she slowly evolved into a living legend over time.

While MK did not have 3-axels, for her time, she was pretty amazing. Still, she wasn't exactly landing high profile primetime talk shows until she actually won senior Worlds.

 

[mag]

Never mind. Should read for comprehension

 

[Finsta]

Anyone With internet access during Kwans days knows she had media attention. Spotlight was also on her as alternate for Olympics. Figure skating was hugely popular in the us for kwans days and she was household name. No comparison with Alysa at all

 

[Sylvia]

They could send Amber to Challenge Cup

Amber Glenn's name appeared on the Challenge Cup list today. Laura Jacobson (4th in Novice at Nationals) will make her international debut in Advanced Novice. Dates are Feb. 21-24 in The Hague. USFS' International Assignments page has added the Bavarian Open assignments; Challenge Cup is still to be confirmed there.