U.S. Ladies [#23]: Triple Axels? What a Novice Idea!

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Must say, guys.... it's been a while seen i've seen Russians rave about a US lady skater.... but there is a lot of rave about Bradie, people posting praises, and making gifs out of her R/J... saying she is "sexy fox", "has power and drive of a slinky animal", "expression and roar".... When i saw her R/J few days ago, i felt "wow!" and liked her even more than before, and today i read on chats that the rest of my tribe loves her too... Go Bradie!
https://cdn.tribuna.com/fetch/?url=http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1537618234/20c37057/23452079.gif
 
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So... Chinese FSF with Chen and Petrov are openly and unabashedly poaching top young US skaters with US citizenship, born in USA, and nobody in USA or USFSA are doing anything about it? not even a complaint to the ISU?

This is CRAZY! Beverly Zhu is a US Novice champion, not some skater who is "not making top 5 and will be left behind". She is not the one who came to China and asked to join. China is STEALING skaters, that is ridiculous...

They are robbing you blind, and all people have to say is "good luck Beverly, glad you get to train with Chen"????!!!!!
 
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kwanatic said:
@slicekw may have been blunt but he/she made some valid points.

Bradie's posture isn't great. She's hunched and rounded at the shoulder. It's not as bad as some I've seen but it's not exactly good either. That is something she could work on.

I don't exactly find her gangly per se but I do think her movement lacks flow. Her arms are stiff and it affects her presentation and makes her overall skating look a bit rigid. It's something she just has to work on.

I also agree she lacks polish and could do with some work in this area, hence my suggestions she spend some time with Lori Nichol. I just think back to the drastic change Lori had on Gracie's skating when they first started working together. Gracie's rough presentation improved by leaps and bounds in a few short weeks. Imagine what she could do with Bradie, who isn't nearly as rough as Gracie was...

I don't think Bradie lacks passion or attack. For some skaters you can see and feel it; for others it's more subtle. Bradie falls on the subtle side. She's got the fire and attack though. I see that based purely on what we've seen from the effort she's putting in. She's coming out guns blazing into this season and now is the time to do it. The post-Olympic year tends to be a transitional one: skaters retiring, major coaching changes, shuffling in the ranks... Now is the time to go for it and I'm thrilled to see an American woman really going for it this time around.
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At this moment Im quite glad to see a USA lady who is doing 3lutzes/3loops and may have stiff arms etc versus another skater who may have more style yet arrives with a full basket of carrots. lol

Its quite a nice change if you ask me.

Go Bradie!!!! :cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:

She can be stiff until the cows come home, no other skater is beating Medev!
 
Tinami Amori said:
So... Chinese FSF with Chen and Petrov are openly and unabashedly poaching top young US skaters with US citizenship, born in USA, and nobody in USA or USFSA are doing anything about it? not even a complaint to the ISU?

This is CRAZY! Beverly Zhu is a US Novice champion, not some skater who is "not making top 5 and will be left behind". She is not the one who came to China and asked to join. China is STEALING skaters, that is ridiculous...
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For once I agree with you.

Yes, I think it makes sense if the family needs money for their skater to keep skating, the US field is too deep for the skater to breakthrough, or if they need a pairs or dance partner that they can only find in another country.

BUT I think it's really unethical for one country to poach another country's top young skaters. It really rubs me the wrong way that China's doing this.

Ultimately I feel bad for Beverly Zhu. Maybe this was her choice, but given her age I'd bet her parents had a lot more of a say in it than she herself did. Either way if she does end up beating US Ladies or even being an Olympic medal threat in 2022 she'll be vilified by skating fans and insulted heavily. Heck, I'd bet she's already getting some nasty comments on social media.
 
I think you are overthinking this....We don't know the details. And skaters have been known to switch countries before. THe only difference is the active recruitment here.

I feel kinda sad for the US ladies team in the 4-5 years, but not much to do other than handwringing.
 
I will miss Beverly skating for the U.S., b/c she is a great up and coming talent. But I don't begrudge her and her family for accepting financial support and all-but-guaranteed trips to Worlds and the Olys in front of a home-country audience. The U.S. ladies field is crowded and there are no guarantees that she would contend for the 2022 or even 2026 Olys. I am sad for U.S. skating but I will focus on the other great up and coming talents we have, who I'm looking forward to watching over the next quad.
 
USFS does restrict country movement for skaters at the elite level who have represented the U.S. internationally and/or received envelope funding (see Morgan Matthews). But for skaters who haven't reached that level, there's not much claim USFS can make. At that point, the skater and family have made all the investment.
 
I've only seen Zhu compete the one time at last year's novice Nationals. She's a nice skater, but I think up against Ting, Hannah, Pooja, Alysa, and Angelina, we would have been fortunate to see her compete much for the U.S. I think it's a nice opportunity for Beverly specifically, and we will probably have a much better chance of watching her grow as an international competitor.
 
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Debbie S said:
USFS does restrict country movement for skaters at the elite level who have represented the U.S. internationally and/or received envelope funding (see Morgan Matthews). But for skaters who haven't reached that level, there's not much claim USFS can make. At that point, the skater and family have made all the investment.
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I get that. But why aren't we investing in our Novice Champ? She clearly would have received some funding as she was eligible for the jgp. I assume she declined to make a country switch. I don't blame her. I blame the USFS for not doing something about it.
 
China is all about the Olympics. I knew they wouldn’t sit idle when their was a team medal on the line. When I did my tabulations for Sochi, I found that China could’ve challenged for a medal but the weakness in dance and ladies was too much. Looking at their ladies, I knew without a strong solid lady to at least place a good sixth, same with dance, a gold medal was impossible.

Beverly is super talented. But last year she competed without a Lutz. It would’ve been easy for her to win juniors this year because the field isn’t that deep, but all that would change at seniors. I see exactly how Alexia benefited with the switch. Instead of dealing with internal politics, she can focus fully on training and advancing her skills on her own pace. She went Germany, Switzerland, Europeans, Worlds, and the Olympics. And she did all this without having to move away from NYC. I imagine if another girl saw a similar chance maybe they too would jump at it.

What does that mean for the US? Not much. Beverly was excellent with lots of potential, but there are other rising novices with a lot of talent as well. I’m curious how many other skaters they’ve snapped up from the US that have fallen off the radar. I imagine if the 10 skaters they are looking at least six are dance teams. Are they looking at Canada, Chinese Taipei and Hong Kong as well? AFAIK, there isn’t as much depth in these nations as us. We could be looking a very sad mini exodus in the next few weeks.
 
Cleo1782 said:
I blame the USFS for not doing something about it.
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What would you suggest USFS do? If they haven't funded a skater, they don't really have any legal standing to hold them. Instituting a rule that any skater competing at Nats can't switch countries seems a bit unreasonable...many skaters competing at Nats will never make it to the point of competing internationally for the U.S. If they could compete for another country, esp a country where they or one or both parents were born, why deny them that?

And there have also been skaters from other countries who competed for the U.S....I'm sure most of us are grateful Canada didn't hold Tanith Belbin. ;)
 
Debbie S said:
What would you suggest USFS do? If they haven't funded a skater, they don't really have any legal standing to hold them. Instituting a rule that any skater competing at Nats can't switch countries seems a bit unreasonable...many skaters competing at Nats will never make it to the point of competing internationally for the U.S. If they could compete for another country, esp a country where they or one or both parents were born, why deny them that?

And there have also been skaters from other countries who competed for the U.S....I'm sure most of us are grateful Canada didn't hold Tanith Belbin. ;)
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Again I get that, but she is not just a lower tier skater at Nationals. She won Novice. I feel like the USFS should have stepped in to develop her and not let her just country hop. If Zhu wanted to skate for China perhaps she should have done so to begin with and not competed at the US system for so long. Country hopping sours me on skaters in most cases. I think she could have been competitive on the US level but she chose another country with a contract. Whatever I don't know her family circumstances and what not.
I am sure Canada is glad we gave them Piper Gilles, Keegan Messing, and Kaitlyn Weaver too.;)
 
Cleo1782 said:
I feel like the USFS should have stepped in to develop her and not let her just country hop.
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Currently, elite skater development in the U.S. begins when skaters move up to Junior level (and I think top rising Novices do have the opportunity to get technical feedback at one of the major summer comps). I'm sure Beverly would have been named to the ISP, invited to the ISP training camp and likely given access to other resources that are being offered to other up-and-comers. She chose a different path. If you are suggesting that USFS should do more to develop skaters at the lower levels, it sounds like they are trying, with having a training camp for top Juv/Int/Novice skaters instead of a Nats, starting next season. But I'm not sure that would prevent a skater from deciding to represent another country at the Junior and Senior levels, if given the opportunity.

If Zhu wanted to skate for China perhaps she should have done so to begin with and not competed at the US system for so long.
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We don't know what Beverly and her family "wanted" but I suspect when she started skating, she wasn't expecting to compete internationally for any country. She grew up in the U.S. (I assume she was born here but don't know), why wouldn't she train and compete at her local rink/comps?
 
Cleo1782 said:
Whatever I don't know her family circumstances and what not.
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Do you mean in terms of Beverly's citizenship?

What I do know is Beverly Zhu was born in the US, as her father, reknown mathematics (statistics) and artificial intelligence professor at UCLA, Song-chun Zhu, had started his tenure at the university just before Beverly was born.
 
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Debbie S said:
Currently, elite skater development in the U.S. begins when skaters move up to Junior level (and I think top rising Novices do have the opportunity to get technical feedback at one of the major summer comps). I'm sure Beverly would have been named to the ISP, invited to the ISP training camp and likely given access to other resources that are being offered to other up-and-comers. She chose a different path. If you are suggesting that USFS should do more to develop skaters at the lower levels, it sounds like they are trying, with having a training camp for top Juv/Int/Novice skaters instead of a Nats, starting next season. But I'm not sure that would prevent a skater from deciding to represent another country at the Junior and Senior levels, if given the opportunity.

We don't know what Beverly and her family "wanted" but I suspect when she started skating, she wasn't expecting to compete internationally for any country. She grew up in the U.S. (I assume she was born here but don't know), why wouldn't she train and compete at her local rink/comps?
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Zhu was born in LA. Not really disagreeing with any of your points. You have a solid argument with facts. My problem is with USFS and the fact they didn't really try to stop this or if they did not effectively. Couldn't they have named her to the ISP and then blocked her from country hopping? Anyway, it's not a huge deal right now but it what if she is a Nathan Chen sorta of star? The USFS just let her slip through their fingers.
 
Seerek said:
Do you mean in terms of Beverly's citizenship?

What I do know is Beverly Zhu was born in the US, as her father, reknown mathematics (statistics) and artificial intelligence professor at UCLA, Song-chun Zhu, had just started his tenure at UCLA before Beverly was born.
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No I was more talking about financial circumstances not citzenship.
 
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