USFS' Champs Camp 2021

bladesofgorey

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446
....whole synopsis....
I spent years in NYC off-broadway theater (with many shows going on to Bway and productions that travelled nationally) and this is the most perfect analogy I've heard so far and I am literally stunned I didn't make the connection before.
 

Tavi

Well-Known Member
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2,093
I dunno

Sasha Cohen was not known to international senior judges well in 2002 and if you ask me she should’ve been on that podium. True Vincent Did not make the long program at worlds but I do think in Olympic year brand recognition has worth ....but who knows

Vincent already is a world medalist and just like Bradie in her first senior year she didn’t get high marks in her first senior year from international judges, and I can’t see any of the above mentioned men including Tomoki getting top 10 scores... again it’s just my opinion

And exception to this would be semeNenko, but if u ask me he truly has it all
I pretty much agree that “brand recognition” and/or politics and/or body of work factor into things somewhere, but it doesn’t always seem to be straightforward. For example, in 2014 many people expected Adam to make the team, and he’d had a really good season on the GP, but he pretty much blew it at Nats. Max, who skated well at Nats, was including quads in his programs, had had a fairly successful season including a bronze medal at Skate America, and was then the reigning US champion, would would have been a logical choice but they took Jason instead. Why? I think it was mostly because Jason brought the house down that night. But I think it was also because Jason had a pretty successful senior debut season, medaling at both Nebelhorn and Trophee Bompard and scoring fairly close to Max internationally despite not including quads in his programs, and in fact, actually out scoring Max in their second GP’s that season (NHK for Max, Bompard for Jason). Still, I imagine it was a tough decision for the selection committee, as evidenced by the fact that although Jason made the Olympic team, Max was sent to Worlds. My guess is that if Jason had just skated very well, and not had that viral performance, Max would have been sent to the Olympics.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
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13,564
Regardless of what happened at the camp, Jason is much more than the jumps. I cannot imagine him being left off the Olympic team, assuming that he stays healthy between now & February. I believe that the Campbell soup cans 2022 are set: Nathan, Vincent & Jason. We have a great bunch of skaters behind them, for the run-up to 2026.
Do these placements play into the next year's # of skaters at events?
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
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13,564
What is the purpose of Champs Camp? How is it funded? Are their benchmarks that must be met?
 

Sylvia

U.S. Qualifying season is underway!
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67,226
What is the purpose of Champs Camp? How is it funded?
From a past Champs Camp description (I've updated the year): "Attended by athletes assigned to a 2021 Grand Prix Series competition. Champs Camp is performance-based. Athletes perform their short program and free skate programs (ice dancing teams: rhythm and free dances) in a simulated competition environment. The camp also includes technical feedback sessions and off-ice sport performance sessions."

Posted earlier in this thread:
It's also a time for them [USFS] to bank shareable media for use throughout the season, which is more of a social media era than mainstream media era concern.
USFS covers the expenses of this annual camp, AFAIK.
 

mattiecat13

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491
Regardless of what happened at the camp, Jason is much more than the jumps. I cannot imagine him being left off the Olympic team, assuming that he stays healthy between now & February. I believe that the Campbell soup cans 2022 are set: Nathan, Vincent & Jason. We have a great bunch of skaters behind them, for the run-up to 2026.
I still have my Campbell’s Soup mug featuring Michelle, Tara, and Nicole from 1998! 😍
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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6,052
Regardless of what happened at the camp, Jason is much more than the jumps. I cannot imagine him being left off the Olympic team, assuming that he stays healthy between now & February. I believe that the Campbell soup cans 2022 are set: Nathan, Vincent & Jason. We have a great bunch of skaters behind them, for the run-up to 2026.
If Nathan and Vincent are the Tara and Michelle, fingers crossed that Jason isn't the Nicole. :-(
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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I see Champs Camp as the final workshop/rehearsal in theater. For many shows with so much invested, the last they want is to have a huge mess debuting in front of an audience. So it’s in the final workshop/rehearsal in front of investors, other creatives (respected friends whose craft they respect and will give feedback or show doctors), and select members audiences (not open to the public) who want the show to work. It gives the skaters/creators of the show one last chance to fine-tune or edit their programs (cut scenes/songs…rewrite songs…take out a character, replace actors, cut dances, etc.) before their first out-of-town try-outs.

I consider the Autumn/Fall Challenger and GP series the out-of-town tryouts period where people see how their shows work in front of an actual audience and then do much fixing and editing there too.

The second half of the season where Euros/4CC (Nationals for those who don’t go to 4CC) is what I consider opening night and Worlds/Olympics is what I consider the time period where Tony Award voters are watching and the show starts to gel and performers hit their prime since they’ve had enough live performances under their belt to know when to hit their marks, make their lines land well, etc. and yet it’s still fresh and exciting.
In the grand scheme of things, I'm Miss Mazeppa working my magic at the Albuquerque Orpheum.
 
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Marco

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I do think the US men's team for BJ Olympics is pretty set, barring disasters. Nathan is all set, Vincent has the scoring potential with the big quads and Jason has the scoring potential even without the quads and is the stable team event participant the way Adam was in 2018. USFS is much more into BOW these days. None of the other contenders ever went to GPF or Worlds before this season, let alone medal at 4CCs. The best BOW out of all the contenders goes to Tomoki but he didn't even do that well at his 4CC outings and only had a 4toe. I doubt USFS would swap out Jason for a 4toe.

If a skater other than Nathan, Jason and Vincent made top 3 at Nationals, I think he is very likely to be Ross Miner-ed out - unless this skater does well enough at the GPs and maybe even makes the GPF to have some momentum heading into Nationals, but then again not many of these men are even going to GPs.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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21,228
I doubt USFS would swap out Jason for a 4toe.
Especially not if Jason is landing a 4 of some kind himself, which is likely to happen this season. He has been so very close.

I think, assuming that someone does his job at the second time of asking and there are three spots available, the only way the Olympic team is not Nathan, Jason and Vincent is if one or more of them completely blows the GP (unlikely) and someone outside the three completely aces the GP (even more unlikely), or if the i-word comes into play (for real, and not just rumour-peddling). As we have seen in the past two cycles, BOW counts now. No longer can you just pull two good skates out of your arse at Nationals and expect to go if you've been skating poorly beforehand.
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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Practice footage. Skaters on the sessions running their programs. Anyone can sign up for Live Barn. You don't need to go through TSL. It's $18 a month and then you can cancel. I believe the archive only lasts a month, however. The Champs Camp footage available is from Saturday, Aug. 28.
Sneaky footage!

For some reason, a quote from the movie, American Pie, popped into my head...

"Like that one time, at Champs' Camp."
 

VGThuy

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35,362
Especially not if Jason is landing a 4 of some kind himself, which is likely to happen this season. He has been so very close.

I think, assuming that someone does his job at the second time of asking and there are three spots available, the only way the Olympic team is not Nathan, Jason and Vincent is if one or more of them completely blows the GP (unlikely) and someone outside the three completely aces the GP (even more unlikely), or if the i-word comes into play (for real, and not just rumour-peddling). As we have seen in the past two cycles, BOW counts now. No longer can you just pull two good skates out of your arse at Nationals and expect to go if you've been skating poorly beforehand.
Agreed. It can happen especially since we know Vincent can be volatile or Jason can get into his head, but I think the other men have a big hill to climb and need to show medal potential, consistency, and beat them at Nationals in order to knock out Vincent/Jason.
 

sheetz

Active Member
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91
From what I saw of CC Tomoki does have the weapons to be competitive--he skated a clean SP runthru with 4S 3A and 4T3T--but he's still quite inconsistent. Somebody who wasn't at CC but could be a factor is Ilia. Granted, he'd likely have to dominate the JGP to be considered but he's definitely got the firepower.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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43,055
I do think the US men's team for BJ Olympics is pretty set, barring disasters.
Whereas I think it's pretty wide open this time around.

Nathan is a given even if he totally implodes at Nationals and comes in 4th (which I absolutely don't expect to happen). Vincent has had problems of late and hasn't competed as much as some of the other guys. His BOW is all from 2018 and earlier which is 3 seasons ago. It's ancient history. Jason needs to skate perfectly and actually get a quad to be competitive.

There are younger guys who have performed well who probably aren't a factor for medals this time around but could really benefit from the Olympic experience where Jason and Vincent have had it. They will only be on the team if they perform this Fall and at Nationals and show they are in the hunt for a medal in Beijing IMO. But if any of these younger guys has a good Fall and beats them at Nationals, I don't think Jason and/or Vincent will be given a BOW slot over the person who beat them. Vincent, in particular, has no recent BOW that would justify that.
 

Frau Muller

Sailing the Seven Ultra-Cs!
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I just remembered that it’s up to Vincent to earn a 3rd US spot at Nebelhorn. If he wins or otherwise achieves that spot at Nebelhorn, that’s all the BOW that matters, in a way...he’ll be the Golden Angel. Yaro & the rest can wiggle all they want. 😉
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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6,052
If missing full arsenal of quads means not having 4A then I agree ;) because he was landing everything else.

ps for anyone wondering about it, TSL has the same stuff as available on LiveBarn but with their annoying commentary. If you have to watch pay LiveBarn instead.
Thanks for the heads-up.
 
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skatingguy

Golden Team
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9,162
Whereas I think it's pretty wide open this time around.

Nathan is a given even if he totally implodes at Nationals and comes in 4th (which I absolutely don't expect to happen). Vincent has had problems of late and hasn't competed as much as some of the other guys. His BOW is all from 2018 and earlier which is 3 seasons ago. It's ancient history. Jason needs to skate perfectly and actually get a quad to be competitive.

There are younger guys who have performed well who probably aren't a factor for medals this time around but could really benefit from the Olympic experience where Jason and Vincent have had it. They will only be on the team if they perform this Fall and at Nationals and show they are in the hunt for a medal in Beijing IMO. But if any of these younger guys has a good Fall and beats them at Nationals, I don't think Jason and/or Vincent will be given a BOW slot over the person who beat them. Vincent, in particular, has no recent BOW that would justify that.
I think Nathan could finish last at Nationals, and he's still going to the Olympics.
 

Frau Muller

Sailing the Seven Ultra-Cs!
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I was wondering what is this “LiveBarn,” since some of y’all seemed to know the term. Turns out that it’s some sort of paid subscription service ($18.95/mo) to watch amateur hockey games in rinks, for ex., via the rink cam.


How on earth would most of us have known that the camera in the Nashville rink where Champs Camp was held would’ve been left on if TSL hadn’t told us? Dave & Jenny watched it, summarizing their findings for free! Heck, I still give Kudos to TSL for having brought it up in the first place...as nobody at FSU seemed to know about it, or cared to spill the beans. (I mentioned it first, running to this thread once I listened to TSL.) Just knowing about the footage was vital; no need to subscribe to it, through any online service, to have the information.

So BRAVO to TSL for providing great skating information for free! PARABENS! 😆
 
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