U.S. Ladies [#21]: Wrapped Up with a Neat Little BOW

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I think many U.S. ladies are 'well-packaged,' but many are not necessarily strong competitors and/or some need help repairing technique problems. Still, there's a good depth of talent and potential, all things considered.

I also think that there are many well-packaged US ladies and they have plenty of potential. When I talk about 'packaging' I also include the soundness of jump technique. Karen, for instance, is very well-packaged and has the star factor more than any of the other US ladies IMO, but has a few deficiencies in jump technique.

Looking forward, I'm starting to wonder how critical triple axels and quads will be for the success of ladies. I am starting to believe that skaters like Rika Kihira and Alexandra Trusova have a big advantage as a result.
 
Why does everyone always want to send skaters to Orser? :drama: Did you see the TSL men's recap with Canadian coach Doug Haw who has formerly coached Orser and assisted Orser in his coaching career at the Cricket Club? Haw indicated that Orser has already received coaching inquiries/ requests. But Orser obviously does not accept everyone. Haw intimated (without mentioning names) that Orser has turned down requests from skaters over the years who he feels are burnt out, or who are just not talented enough. Conversely, Orser is not going to be the answer for everyone, their brother, mother, dog and housekeeper. ;)

Mama Tursynbaeva must be cashed up to the sun.
 
For those of you so hot under the collar about what Mirai said about Gabby, please take a look at Nick McCarvel's Twitter account. He not only pointed out that Mirai was the one who went out of her way to comfort Gabby and remind her that she was a gold medalist, he also posted a photo of them together.

Yes, Mirai said some stupid things but we're also mostly reading them from the POV of the reporters. And that's the issue: Rogers, Brennan, and Hersh put these women on pedestals (e.g.: Mirai was suddenly a medal threat after landing one triple axel) and then they love to knock them down. And now they're even going after Karen for making excuses (Rogers eviscerated her for saying she missed her mom, for God's sake). Hersh tweeted nasty today about the "2nd and 3rd" US women tweeting to walk back their previous remarks. I think they're all almost disappointed that Bradie didn't say something they could pounce on. It's not about the skating or what the skater said. It's because the reporters couldn't get their happy ending story and pat themselves on the back for calling something great and profiting somehow from it, even if it's just an ego boost. Hell, Brennan went off on the "wrong Russian" winning gold. Methinks she's still PO'd at Tara for ruining her planned third book on the Kwan dynasty.

These women were exhausted, and Mirai and Bradie especially had a long Olympics with Bradie expected to never fall and Mirai suddenly expected to have flawless triple axels and miraculously vault over a bunch of other skaters, which even with another performance like that in the team event was still highly unlikely. I can forgive all of them a few ill-timed remarks that were also likely twisted to fit a crabby reporter's narrative.

And somehow, I'll bet Gabby Daleman remembers that hug and Mirai's kind words to her more than one defensive remark in an interview. Maybe we should consider the different actions in their context and think about which one was truly more meaningful.

ETA: TSL posted the LA Times slam article on Facebook and asked if Mirai should be pulled from Worlds and if she and Karen are motivated enough to go to Milan. Dave and company and the reporters are now the ones being eviscerated by the fans. I think it's time for this ridiculously overblown media drama to blow away.
 
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That would be a good way of destroying skater morale. And I'm not talking about one specific skater but of every top U.S. skater now or in the near future.

Karen Chen is the one talking about her boot problems, with the implication that is the major reason for her lackluster performances. If she is having issues now, the intervening next few weeks likely aren't going to help. USFS should at least put some hard questions to her and her team (privately) about her readiness to compete, and I would not be surprised if they are doing exactly that.

USFS needs to worry more about keeping 3 spots for next year, than it does Karen Chen's morale or anybody else's. The best way for skaters to keep up their morale is to skate really well. I'm neutral about Ashley as a skater especially this season, but she's simply next up to bat as the first alternate . I'd be OK with Mariah subbing in as well, if Ashley removes herself from consideration.
 
It seems that Karen Chen is the whipping girl for the disappointing results. All this talk of skaters of them not having the political clout anymore or saying how Ashley should have gone or pointing to various external factors seem to be more trying to find some easy explanation. The USA has been in a slump for a while but it won't change by sacrificing one skater at the alter of Ashley Wagner.
 
Karen Chen is the one talking about her boot problems, with the implication that is the major reason for her lackluster performances. If she is having issues now, the intervening next few weeks likely aren't going to help.
Reality check:

http://figureskatersonline.com/news/2017/03/21/karen-chen-strives-to-overcome-obstacles/
Following the [2017] U.S. Championships, Chen was hoping to continue her upward momentum at the Four Continents Championships. Sadly, she struggled and finished in twelfth place. She attributes both nerves and boot problems to her less than stellar performance.
As we all know, Chen went on to finish fourth at Worlds last season.

I understand that there are people who prefer Wagner as a skater and as a person and who think that Wagner should have been placed ahead of Chen at this season's U.S. Nationals. The judges, however, disagreed, and the USFSA's selection criteria do not include fans' personal preferences.

Reality's a bitch, innit? :violin:
 
Reality check:

http://figureskatersonline.com/news/2017/03/21/karen-chen-strives-to-overcome-obstacles/

As we all know, Chen went on to finish fourth at Worlds last season.

I understand that there are people who prefer Wagner as a skater and as a person and who think that Wagner should have been placed ahead of Chen at this season's U.S. Nationals. The judges, however, disagreed, and the USFSA's selection criteria do not include fans' personal preferences.

Reality's a bitch, innit? :violin:

There was a huge outcry in 2014 when Ashley was chosen over Mirai because of her consistency. Yet now it seems to be OK to replace the bronze medalist even though Ashley hasn't been very consistent.
 
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USFS needs to worry more about keeping 3 spots for next year.....
Spots, spots, spots. Anything can happen but I think it would take a miracle and some pretty bad skates from the competition for the U.S. to keep three spots. There are 8 skaters who are likely to dominate the top rungs (3 RUS, 2 CAN, 1 ITA, 2 JPN), with the podium virtually locked up, and while it's possible that one U.S. skater could get in the mix, it will likely be very difficult to get two placements that add up to less than 13.

I know post Olympic Worlds can be unpredictable, but the depth in ladies at the moment is daunting and U.S. ladies are just not that competitive currently.
 
That's all speculative as well though, isn't it? Half the people you named have their own potential to bomb. Last year Karen was having boot issues, didn't skate well on the GP, concerned everyone that she couldn't help secure three spots, ect. And then she was fourth. I'm not counting on it this time around, but the point is that she's unpredictable.

And at this point, are many truly concerned about three spots? With the way things are going, the US women don't seem very deserving unless they seriously step it up at Worlds.

I guess it's speculation.........I think it's generous to say Karen could be fifth. The Russians won't bomb and I would assume two other girls will skate better than Karen even if half of the ones I mentioned bomb. I don't think half of them will, but maybe. I don't think we deserve 3 spots, but we are certainly more deserving than Canada, where Meagan Duhamel could have gotten the 3rd spot. Japan should get 3 back, but it's not out of the realm of possibility where we could get a 5th, 8th or a 6th, 7th and retain the 3rd spot. Karen is firmly US #3 right now, so in theory her placement should not even be a factor. I don't think Karen is unpredictable. She has been predictably under performing all year.
I don't hate her, she has some lovely qualities, but I think it was a mistake to send her to the Olys AND worlds. I am by no means an Ashley uber, but I would have sent her instead.
 
Not sure if this has been posted yet? Mirai expresses regret for her odd comments after the ladies free skate:

http://people.com/sports/winter-oly...edium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_peoplemag

Good for her for addressing it. I don't doubt it was meant to come across differently. But of course anyone in the spotlight still needs to be careful with what they say.

The notes about her future are interesting. It says she's committed to Worlds, the triple Axel, and not leaving skating for a few more seasons.
 
Reality check:

http://figureskatersonline.com/news/2017/03/21/karen-chen-strives-to-overcome-obstacles/

As we all know, Chen went on to finish fourth at Worlds last season.

I understand that there are people who prefer Wagner as a skater and as a person and who think that Wagner should have been placed ahead of Chen at this season's U.S. Nationals. The judges, however, disagreed, and the USFSA's selection criteria do not include fans' personal preferences.

Reality's a bitch, innit? :violin:
reality is a bitch but I'm not happy about it. The us is a dog eat dog capitalistic cage fight, even if it doesn't have a patch on the hunger games dystopia of Russian ladies skating where your first year out of juniors is seen as your one and only chance at ogm before being replaced. Usfs seems to recognize that investing in young skaters is to their own benefit but seem to have less interest in setting up skaters who served them well for a lucrative retirement. Sure, Ashley probably would have finished in the same 10th place spot Karen did, but seeing as she was already everywhere in print and tv ads and the face of us ladies despite not skating, would giving her this gold watch type retirement gift of a last olys really have killed them. Well, they made their choice, and how Karen and bradie have the experience of bombing on the big stage under their belt. But as has been pointed out, even skating well they probably will only move up a spot or two at worlds.
 
reality is a bitch but I'm not happy about it. The us is a dog eat dog capitalistic cage fight, even if it doesn't have a patch on the hunger games dystopia of Russian ladies skating where your first year out of juniors is seen as your one and only chance at ogm before being replaced. Usfs seems to recognize that investing in young skaters is to their own benefit but seem to have less interest in setting up skaters who served them well for a lucrative retirement. Sure, Ashley probably would have finished in the same 10th place spot Karen did, but seeing as she was already everywhere in print and tv ads and the face of us ladies despite not skating, would giving her this gold watch type retirement gift of a last olys really have killed them. Well, they made their choice, and how Karen and bradie have the experience of bombing on the big stage under their belt. But as has been pointed out, even skating well they probably will only move up a spot or two at worlds.

I would have had less of a problem with Ashley being given a "gold watch" if her own skating hadn't put her one placement below qualifying for THREE OLYMPIC CYCLES. And I'm an Ashley fan. Just like Mirai did herself in for the 2014 games with her inconsistency, so did Ashley this time around. I love watching Ashley skate, but she got a big gift the last time around. She did not deserve another one.
 
I would have had less of a problem with Ashley being given a "gold watch" if her own skating hadn't put her one placement below qualifying for THREE OLYMPIC CYCLES. And I'm an Ashley fan. Just like Mirai did herself in for the 2014 games with her inconsistency, so did Ashley this time around. I love watching Ashley skate, but she got a big gift the last time around. She did not deserve another one.

Ashley didn't get "a big gift the last time around." Polina Edmonds did.

Ashley had earned her trip to the 2014 Olympics with an excellent Grand Prix season, winning silver and gold and taking bronze at the GPF.

But as Ross Miner could tell you, there's no obligation on the part of the USFS to send a silver medalist without senior international success to the Olympics. For whatever reasons, the USFS chose to send Polina, and people have been holding it against Ashley ever since.
 
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Yeah if body of work matters, then Ashley didn't get a gift. She earned it.
But that doesn't mean USFS judges didn't feel guilty towards Mirai and try to make it up to her.
IMHO, if you are gonna have a guilt trip afterwards, you should just split the assignments and let one have the Olympics and the other have worlds.
 
I would have had less of a problem with Ashley being given a "gold watch" if her own skating hadn't put her one placement below qualifying for THREE OLYMPIC CYCLES. And I'm an Ashley fan. Just like Mirai did herself in for the 2014 games with her inconsistency, so did Ashley this time around. I love watching Ashley skate, but she got a big gift the last time around. She did not deserve another one.

She beat Karen on TES. Barely, but she did beat her.

You talk about her 4th place like it was clear and obvious, when in reality she was 3rd on TES and victim of a sudden recalibration of her components.
 
Can some of ya'll cool it with the mirai drama. Yeah, it wasn't the greatest thing that could be said and I was annoyed by her comment about Gabby too they day she said it, however, I have heard skaters say much worse things about their competitors and never showing any basic respect towards unlike like mirai with gabi who still hugged her. If you heard the bitter crap max trankov said about D/R you would think mirai was mother Teresa.
 
For those of you so hot under the collar about what Mirai said about Gabby, please take a look at Nick McCarvel's Twitter account. He not only pointed out that Mirai was the one who went out of her way to comfort Gabby and remind her that she was a gold medalist, he also posted a photo of them together.

Yes, Mirai said some stupid things but we're also mostly reading them from the POV of the reporters. And that's the issue: Rogers, Brennan, and Hersh put these women on pedestals (e.g.: Mirai was suddenly a medal threat after landing one triple axel) and then they love to knock them down. And now they're even going after Karen for making excuses (Rogers eviscerated her for saying she missed her mom, for God's sake). Hersh tweeted nasty today about the "2nd and 3rd" US women tweeting to walk back their previous remarks. I think they're all almost disappointed that Bradie didn't say something they could pounce on. It's not about the skating or what the skater said. It's because the reporters couldn't get their happy ending story and pat themselves on the back for calling something great and profiting somehow from it, even if it's just an ego boost. Hell, Brennan went off on the "wrong Russian" winning gold. Methinks she's still PO'd at Tara for ruining her planned third book on the Kwan dynasty.

These women were exhausted, and Mirai and Bradie especially had a long Olympics with Bradie expected to never fall and Mirai suddenly expected to have flawless triple axels and miraculously vault over a bunch of other skaters, which even with another performance like that in the team event was still highly unlikely. I can forgive all of them a few ill-timed remarks that were also likely twisted to fit a crabby reporter's narrative.

And somehow, I'll bet Gabby Daleman remembers that hug and Mirai's kind words to her more than one defensive remark in an interview. Maybe we should consider the different actions in their context and think about which one was truly more meaningful.

ETA: TSL posted the LA Times slam article on Facebook and asked if Mirai should be pulled from Worlds and if she and Karen are motivated enough to go to Milan. Dave and company and the reporters are now the ones being eviscerated by the fans. I think it's time for this ridiculously overblown media drama to blow away.

I would take Mirai, Karen and Gabby over those muckrakers, Christine and Phil, any day.

They make the sport real, interesting, and watchable.
 
If an athlete gives an interview, people are going to talk about what they say. You can't expect nothing but positivity and praise, no matter how much you like a skater. No one here has been mean or unreasonable to Mirai. She's a grown woman who's capable of owning her remarks (and to her credit, she has). Stop treating her like a little girl who needs to be protected.

And in general, "So-and-so said/did worse!" is a really poor defense.
 
There was a huge outcry in 2014 when Ashley was chosen over Mirai because of her consistency. Yet now it seems to be OK to replace the bronze medalist even though Ashley hasn't been very consistent.
Ah, but Ashley was Ashley in 2014, and she's still Ashley now. That appears to be all that matters to some folks. :shuffle:
 
What kind of twisted world do you live in where Bradie bombed? Given her experience, the fact that she competed well in the team event and then waited almost two weeks to skate again, she did just fine.
What kind of twisted world do you live in where a national champion having the absolute worst Oly finish in the entire century long history of the sport is "just fine"? :scream:

Her 15 weeks of instant fame rested solely on the one point that she was rock solid consistant and never missed a jump. Then she proceed to fall in both programs.
 
What kind of twisted world do you live in where a national champion having the absolute worst Oly finish in the entire century long history of the sport is "just fine"? :scream:

Her 15 weeks of instant fame rested solely on the one point that she was rock solid consistant and never missed a jump. Then she proceed to fall in both programs.

She STILL finished first of all the US girls. Look the US does not have an Alina or a Zhenya. We don't even have a Maria.

I'm not so convinced Ashley would do better. I say take the top three. Maybe Karen will have one of her good skates. If not I don't think the world will end if we don't have 3 spots we won't deserve them if they can't earn them.
 
What kind of twisted world do you live in where a national champion having the absolute worst Oly finish in the entire century long history of the sport is "just fine"? :scream:
A world in which the USA is not a contender in the ladies event and 9th is more or less where I expected her to finish. :shuffle:
15 weeks of instant fame rested solely on the one point that she was rock solid consistant and never missed a jump. Then she proceed to fall in both programs.

I thought it was because she won Nationals. ;)
 
What kind of twisted world do you live in where a national champion having the absolute worst Oly finish in the entire century long history of the sport is "just fine"? :scream:

Her 15 weeks of instant fame rested solely on the one point that she was rock solid consistant and never missed a jump. Then she proceed to fall in both programs.

Someone else framing the argument so they can win. Bradie skated three programs. The most important of the three was the team event. There she skated a completely clean, solid program. That was her job and she did it well.
 
... it won't change by sacrificing one skater at the alter of Ashley Wagner.

:drama: I think you meant 'altar' btw.

Ashley Wagner is not the most talented skater in the world, and she's always been realistic about her shortcomings, but for freakin' jellie bellies, Ms. Wagner has worked her butt off to make a career for herself as a competitive figure skater. And she's achieved a great deal of hard won success. Nothing has been handed to her on a silver platter, not even her silver at Worlds in 2016, as some belittling-prone fans seem to think. Ash Swag has carried U.S. ladies discipline on her back ever since her rise to greater prominence in the 2011-2012 season. Those who can't respect her accomplishments, good luck with your own life goals. :watch:

Best wishes to Ashley and to all the U.S. ladies. Life goes on...
 
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