U.S. Ladies [#22]: No More Carrots!

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Dobre

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She skated to Swan Lake only two years ago?

There are a plethora of black artists that produce music in a plethora of genres so I don't fear that Starr will be too limited with the stance she and/or her family is taking. (Though, she's still young. Many of our viewpoints evolve as we grow so I also wouldn't be surprised if her view toward skating music continues to evolve). Skating to a selection amidst all the black musical artists in history would be much less limiting than performing only to "proven" warhorses as many athletes do. However, I would like to see her team use this stance for good by embracing music that is not already overdone within the traditional skating pantheon.

I don't feel that Summertime does anything for her at this point in her life. (Similar to Tursynbaeva's Carmen, I feel like it is a piece that might well have benefited from being tackled at a more mature stage of her career. If even then it was necessary due to the endless versions we have seen of it). I think she can do something with the free program, though. It's been a while since this music was in. It hasn't been plundered to death, and I like the uniqueness of the choreography. I thought her short programs from the last two seasons were terrific. She has a flare for modern music and an ability to project in a way that I find unique among the U.S. ladies field.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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And I bet considering the fact that Starr has indeed already skated to music that were not from black singers, somebody in a very non-diverse and unexposed skating world felt Starr skating to two or whatever programs by black singers was too much and shows that Starr and her team only want her to skate to black singers because doing more than one means you're promoting an agenda as opposed to Starr and her team choosing music that relates to them and that she wants to skate to. Nobody would say anything like that if a skater skated to music that was made by white people multiple times in a row nor would they say its limiting. Of course it's not surprising to me that people like Dave and Jonathan would buy that line of thinking.
 

Tinami Amori

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Nobody would say anything like that if a skater skated to music that was made by white people multiple times in a row nor would they say its limiting. Of course it's not surprising to me that people like Dave and Jonathan would buy that line of thinking.
Show me a top skater who has NOT skated to several of the following choices: tangos (all 100 of them), latin rhythms (all 100 of them), middle-eastern sound, jewish themes (SL, hava-nagila, bublichki, bei mir bis du schoen), asian themes (turandot, geisha, chio-chio-san), jazz and blues, etc..
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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Show me where Starr Andrews has ONLY skated to black singers. And my post didn't say skaters ONLY skated to white composers/artists. Read again. And one can skate to black singers/composers and still skate different styles and genres.

ETA: Also, Evgenia Medvedeva has yet to skate to several of the genres you listed in the past four years and it was not until she moved to Canada where she is finally exploring a tango.
 
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Frida80

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My irritation is that they’re going after Starr for skating one of the most common pieces in the world. Gubanova skated to this very same version in her SP last year. Kaetlyn was going to skate to summertime before changing back to her old SP. Last year’s winner of of AGT sung summertime. But for some reason, Starr can’t skate to it because she’s black and that’s a black artist. Disgusting.
 

Tinami Amori

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Show me where Starr Andrews has ONLY skated to black singers. And my post didn't say skaters ONLY skated to white composers/artists. Read again.
The minute she left the "obscurity of juniors", stepped into a visible spot-light and hit Senior ranks to skate at Nationals and Internationally, past season and this season, when it is the right time to develop "identity".

I also wondered why a little girl needs to wear the bullet harness and skate to rap.. :D.. if not for a "Black power" message..
https://cimg.tvgcdn.net/i/2010/12/3...307c414ea959eb377903/101229starr-andrews1.jpg
https://www.heritagecostumes.com/secure/images/products/6883.jpg

I wonder what the reaction would be if an Israeli or openly Jewish skater came out in a "mild version" of IDF uniform..
https://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/6/5425/soldados-israelitas-cuelgan-fotos-desnudas-1-.jpg
:D
 

aftershocks

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^^ :blah: Continue having fun distracting, and twisting to suit your comfort zone @Tinami Amori ... Starr's career is really only just getting started in seniors. Before she moved up to seniors, Starr skated in Juvenile, Intermediate, Novice, and Junior disciplines. She already owns her 'identity,' and doesn't need to develop one as a senior for your approval.

Because all black artists are the same and perform in the same genre?
I'm not sure if this was a response to my post but I said absolutely nothing of the sort.
Go back to decipher what you said. That is what it boils down to...

... if Starr is limiting her possibilities of expanding as a skater by only skate to music by African-American artists is legitimate.
You may not realize it, but your above statement suggests that African-American artists all create within the same musical genre, which is clearly not the case. Moreover, African-Americans should not be lumped together as one 'race' either. All Americans, including darker-skinned Americans originate from a variety of different 'ethnic' backgrounds and cultures. Believe it or not! America is a huge melting pot. And btw, humans are all more alike than we are different.

She skated to Swan Lake only two years ago? There are a plethora of black artists that produce music in a plethora of genres so I don't fear that Starr will be too limited with the stance she and/or her family is taking.
Thank you for your overall comments @Dobre. Starr skated to the music of Black Swan for her fp in the 2016 - 2017 season, as I mentioned in an earlier post. Also, I would point out that none of us know whether any stance has been taken, or if there is a stance that's been taken, what it is exactly. :p The anecdote and quote are all hearsay from Dave Lease, possibly partly assumed, made-up, or even misinterpreted. Which in the long run makes no difference, since there's absolutely nothing amiss if African-American artists are going to be Starr's preference for choosing between various musical genres for awhile. In any case, AFAIK, no such announcement has ever been made. And I would not trust Dave Lease nor any of his gossipy sources.
 
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Dobre

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I don't think anyone would think anything of a Caucasian skater performing to two black artists in a row. Unless the song was about ethnicity or black culture, in which case we would be rerunning through a different conversation.

Last year Starr skated to two popular divas, and she totally played the diva in the performances so I can see why that drew attention. It was meant to, was it not? She did a great job with it. This year, her team has obviously elected to pull from different eras & genres. Which, again, is an attempt to stretch and is more than some athletes tend to do. (I just don't happen to think the Summertime works).


Thank you for your overall comments @Dobre. I would point out though that none of us know whether any stance has been taken, or if there is a stance that's been taken, what it is exactly.
Thank you for the clarification. I misinterpreted the comments above. I don't watch TSL, and I'm not changing my stance on that so my apologies if any portion of my posts seem irrelevant to that part of the conversation.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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The minute she left the "obscurity of juniors", stepped into a visible spot-light and hit Senior ranks to skate at Nationals and Internationally, past season and this season, when it is the right time to develop "identity".

:D
Like when she's skating to a soundtrack by Hans Zimmer for her long program this season?

I honestly don't know why you're so worried about you critiquing Starr in the future might have you misconstrued as a racist considering you never seemed to shy away from saying pretty blatantly racist things in the past and actually take pride in it. I'm not surprised that you already see yourself in a position of heavily critiquing Starr as she moves up the ranks though.
 
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Sylvia

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Starr recently answered a question via Instagram story and described her free skate as "jungle music." I don't know what all the pieces are but @alchemy void (thanks!) identified part of her music as being from the Xotica: Journey to the Heart soundtrack by Rene Dupere.
@Frida80, which part of Starr's FS program is to The Rain Maker soundtrack?
The FS is actually, the Rain Maker by Hans Zimmer.
 

aftershocks

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My irritation is that they’re going after Starr for skating one of the most common pieces in the world. Gubanova skated to this very same version in her SP last year. Kaetlyn was going to skate to summertime before changing back to her old SP. Last year’s winner of of AGT sung summertime. But for some reason, Starr can’t skate to it because she’s black and that’s a black artist. Disgusting.
I think the version of Summertime (with Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong) that Starr chose is quite wonderful, as someone else pointed out earlier in this thread. It's very fitting, and she skated to it beautifully.
 

Frida80

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@Frida80, which part of Starr's FS program is to The Rain Maker soundtrack?
I did Shazam in the very beginning, that’s the soundtrack that popped up.

Edit: It must be a compilation because the thirdsong is Desert Spirit by John Herberman. (The second won’t pop up.) The next is Under African Skies, same artist. Following that, Minus One by Greg Ellis. The final piece is Tribal Gathering by Vanessa Mae (Asian artist).
 
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VIETgrlTerifa

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I think it's a track called "The Rain Maker" from the film The Power of One a movie set in South Africa. Not the same thing at all as Beyonce, Whitney Houston, or a Louis Armstrong/Ella Fitzgerald jazz cover of a Gershwin folk opera. Those three are pretty different from one another.
 

Tinami Amori

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Like when she's skating to a soundtrack by Hans Zimmer for her long program this season?
This season
- Summertime
- African music Mix
Last Season
- Fever
- One Moment in Time (performed by Whitney Houston, Starr Andrews)

Furthermore, I'm in favor of skaters choosing music from their country and/or cultural back ground. I even often advocate it, and think it is the right thing to do..... :D (and get shit for that also).. :lol:. But, if that's one's choice, then the critique may cover and touch on the "ethnitude" part of it..

I'd love to see an Israeli skater use "This Land is My Land" or "Lehi Irgun Anthem"... :D But boy, would it create an explosion...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue10rEjnsxg
 

Sylvia

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Edit: It must be a compilation because the second song is Desert Spirit by John Herberman.
Yes, Starr's FS music is supposed to be a medley of different pieces; does Xotica: Journey to the Heart soundtrack by Rene Dupere come up via the Shazam app? :D
 

Frida80

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Yes, Starr's FS music is supposed to be a medley of different pieces; does Xotica: Journey to the Heart soundtrack by Rene Dupere come up via the Shazam app? :D
No.

All the ones that I could identify I put in my initial post. Only the second song didn’t pop up. So it may be that, but I can’t be sure. But I will say her FS music is very well edited. Seamless.
 

Frida80

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I’ve watched Starr for so long, so I knew the day would come. I just hoped I had a few more years to hang on to her innocence. I dread the idea of her reading that transcript or listening to that video. Even though I’m sure she knows all about Dave Lease, his comments about her were beyond pale and I wouldn’t be surprised if she was hurt and justifibly angry. I wish I could wrap her up in a cocoon and let her skate as freely as she wanted where these bigoted comments would never reach her.

I’ve never shied away from critiquing her or other young skaters, because criticism helps us improve. This isn’t criticism. This won’t make anyone improve. It’s designed to keep people in a box. It’s to belittle them and make them feel inferior. I hope she knows that. I hope she learns the resilience to deals with these nasty comments.
 

Tinami Amori

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I’ve never shied away from critiquing her or other young skaters, because criticism helps us improve. This isn’t criticism. This won’t make anyone improve. It’s designed to keep people in a box. It’s to belittle them and make them feel inferior. I hope she knows that. I hope she learns the resilience to deals with these nasty comments.
well..... his nasty comments did not stop Zag in Tutu, Med in Mime, or Trusova (the jumping bean and nothing else...).. :D
 

aftershocks

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The distraction started with "melanin" which was never mentioned in connection to Starr in TSL's interivew...;)
Like I said before, 'melanin' is always the elephant in the room. And here's another distraction for you: the word 'slave' derives from the term Slavs, which refers to 'Slavic people' from various regions and 'ethnic' backgrounds (including Russians, Czechs, Ukrainians, Poles, Slovaks, etc). Slavs were historically enslaved by armies of Mongols and Turks. But eventually Slavic people turned the tide of their history and cultures.

And now due to infamous and epic enslavement in the Americas of African people (from various regions and 'ethnic' backgrounds), the term 'slave' has come to be associated with so-called 'African-Americans.' Wow, what a kicker. Distract and twist that if you will.

As I said, we are all more alike than we are different.
 

Frida80

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Also, I hope she learns that you need to stay off forums like these if you are a skater.

(Seriously, it's not helpful. Their team can send over any comments that actually are helpful/nice.)
I already know she’s been on GS as well as her mother in the past. I’m not sure if they’ve been over here.
 

Tinami Amori

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Like I said before, 'melanin' is always the elephant in the room.
In your room. In Dave's/TSL's "room" it is anything they can pick on in skaters/coaches they don't like.

And here's another distraction for you: the word 'slave' derives from the term Slavs, which refers to 'Slavic people' from various regions and 'ethnic' backgrounds (including Russians, Czechs, Ukrainians, Poles, Slovaks, etc). Slavs were historically enslaved by armies of Mongols and Turks. But eventually Slavic people turned the tide of their history and cultures.
Save the "slavs" issue for the "slavs"..... You need to give me my relevant distraction: Ghetto - Venician enclosure for the Jews"... :D

And now due to infamous and epic enslavement in the Americas of African people (from various regions and 'ethnic' backgrounds), the term 'slave' has come to be associated with so-called 'African-Americans.' Wow, what a kicker. Distract and twist that if you will.
Slavery was first officially documented Mesopatamia in 18th century BC, and legitimized by the Code of Hammburabi, Section #15, "of Slaves and laws"... which is in the Near East (later arab land....:p)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi
Slavery inside Africa by African tribes (ethnic and now political groups) colonizing/invading other tribes dates back to 12 century BC, and still exists today.. The Europeans were "late bloomers".....:D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_contemporary_Africa ...

As I said, we are all more alike than we are different.
tell that to my cousine... she thinks she is prettier.. :lol:
 

aftershocks

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^^ Ha, at least maybe your cousine's thoughts and apparent intentions are prettier than yours. But that's beside the point, and you know it. You are incorrigible and a blatant disrupter @Tinami Amori, and you know that too. You may as well take a breather, or have the final word on this OT drift to dead end nowhere.
 

MacMadame

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I already know she’s been on GS as well as her mother in the past. I’m not sure if they’ve been over here.
Now that she's been noticed by the public, that's a bad idea. But I'm sure USFS and others around her will be telling her that. (It's pretty common advice to young skaters starting to get noticed.)
 
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