Downton Abbey Season 6 - PBS broadcast

[skatingfan5]

^ I agree with topaz's interpretation of Edith's actions wrt Marigold. Ninety years ago there were quite serious social sanctions/consequences on having a child out of wedlock, so I don't view Edith's decisions so damning, even if they do cause (unintended) harm. A full decade later, things hadn't changed very much at all -- actress Loretta Young "adopted" her own daughter (the result of an affair with the married Clark Gable) and maintained that story publicly for more than 60 years. Although it was pretty much well-known throughout the Hollywood film community, her daughter didn't learn the truth until she was in her 20s.

 

[Artemis@BC]

Not to get overly technical but did Mary ever worry about a pregnancy?

When I was a teenager there was a widely-held misconception (sorry) that you couldn't get pregnant "your first time." I wonder if Mary thought the same.

I also recall that the whole thing seemed to happen so quickly she probably didn't really have time to think about it either way. It was like he had propositioned her earlier in the evening, he just showed up at her door.

 

[sk8girl]

Not to get overly technical but did Mary ever worry about a pregnancy?

I remember that Mary had a conversation with someone a while after that night, and that person (Anna, maybe?) said something like "At least you're not pregnant!" I took that to mean that she DID go all the way (and therefore pregnancy was a possibility), but they definitely didn't show any drama with Mary worrying about being pregnant.

 

[skatingfan5]

I remember that Mary had a conversation with someone a while after that night, and that person (Anna, maybe?) said something like "At least you're not pregnant!" I took that to mean that she DID go all the way (and therefore pregnancy was a possibility), but they definitely didn't show any drama with Mary worrying about being pregnant.

That's what I thought I remembered as well -- but was too unsure about my recollection to post.

 

[Finnice]

I remember Mary telling Matthew that she is "damaged goods".

 

[floskate]

Damaged goods didn't have to mean full intercourse back then. Far from it! That's why her confession to Matthew is no proof of her having lost her virginity. British society in that age across all classes had a very complex code of conduct. It didn't take a lot for a girl to be regarded as having ruined her reputation.

I still maintain she didn't go all the way. Otherwise why did Mr Pamuk say what he did? Why would Fellowes have even written it?

 

[skatesindreams]

Damaged goods didn't have to mean full intercourse back then. Far from it! That's why her confession to Matthew is no proof of her having lost her virginity. British society in that age across all classes had a very complex code of conduct. It didn't take a lot for a girl to be regarded as having ruined her reputation.

Thanks for clarifying this.
It has always been my understanding that standards for what constituted "carnal knowledge" and "acceptable" behaviour were extremely narrow at the time.

 

[skatingfan5]

Damaged goods didn't have to mean full intercourse back then. Far from it! That's why her confession to Matthew is no proof of her having lost her virginity.

I still maintain she didn't go all the way. Otherwise why did Mr Pamuk say what he did? Why would Fellowes have even written it?

See the quoted material about a "vial of blood under the pillow" in post #141 above.

 

[IceAlisa]

It's possible Mr. Pamuk said that in preparation but may not have had a chance to complete his plan. I think we should write a collective letter to Julian Fellowes so we could all sleep at night.

 

[sk8girl]

It's possible Mr. Pamuk said that in preparation but may not have had a chance to complete his plan. I think we should write a collective letter to Julian Fellowes so we could all sleep at night.

I'm thinking Mr. Pamuk said what he needed to say in order to get into Mary's bed, but who knows what actually happened in the heat of the moment. Who knows, maybe the whole "you'll still be a virgin" thing was just a standard pick-up line of his

I wonder if Julian even knows - maybe he kept it purposely vague so he could amuse himself listening to the fan analysis.

 

[Artemis@BC]

I'm thinking Mr. Pamuk said what he needed to say in order to get into Mary's bed, but who knows what actually happened in the heat of the moment. Who knows, maybe the whole "you'll still be a virgin" thing was just a standard pick-up line of his.

"I'll pull out, I promise."

or "Just the tip."

 

[nubka]

i disagree with the IceAlisa's and other's view of Edith. I think many are putting modern feelings and opportunities on a Edwardian aristocract. Edith made a decision(pressured) to give the baby up when it was NEVER what she truly wanted. She thought she could live with seeing her daughter with another family and she couldn't. I'm sorry I'm not from the school "that because I made a mistake and misjudged my feelings that I should just accept it I'll be miserable for the rest for my life". Edith loved Mr Gregson and the child is a love child for her.

She's still struggling with the decision to share all with her family(mary in particular) and being an outcast as a single mother. I have a feeling that Edith is going to go public with Marigold, live in the flat in London as a single mother.

Well said!

 

[jlai]

I still think mrs drewe's preference for Marigold over her children was strange because she took Marigold back to her house and left her own children with the babysitter. I would have understood it better if she had picked up her children on the way home

 

[manhn]

The defence that Edith's behaviour is "of the times" doesn't really wash with me because--well, she has the baby now and where are the consequences? Are you telling me that rich single women gave their babies up for adoption, got the babies back and lived their lives happy happy with forgiving parents and an unsuspecting sister and public?

If that was the case, why give up the baby in the first place?

 

[IceAlisa]

She hasn't announced to the world that it's her child. The official version is still that Marigold is the ward of the Crawley family.

 

[manhn]

So, apparently, back in the old days, rich single women can care for their child as long as it's not announced to the world that it's hers. Easy peasy.

Again, why go through the hassle of giving the baby up for adoption TWICE and taking the baby back TWICE?

 

[IceAlisa]

So, apparently, back in the old days, rich single women can care for their child as long as it's not announced to the world that it's hers. Easy peasy.

Happened quite a bit. Lots of examples but not sure if it was easy peasy. As long as you didn't make it public or too obvious.

Again, why go through the hassle of giving the baby up for adoption TWICE and taking the baby back TWICE?

Oh I know, she is a total flake.

 

[nubka]

So, apparently, back in the old days, rich single women can care for their child as long as it's not announced to the world that it's hers. Easy peasy.

Again, why go through the hassle of giving the baby up for adoption TWICE and taking the baby back TWICE?

It makes good copy.

 

[skatesindreams]

The "community" sometimes knew, or suspected.
However, such matters were not discussed in "society"

Very different from today, when everyone's personal lives are discussed openly, and endlessly.

 

[IceAlisa]

That must have been nice. But they had no antibiotics, modern dentistry or epidural anesthesia.

 

[floskate]

When Downton finished here in the UK on Christmas Day, and unable to face the harsh reality of life without it, I immediately embarked on a bluray binge and have spent my evenings since watching from the start. Then last night I rewatched the finale again and now.....that's that. I shall enjoy seeing your thoughts unfold in this thread as the series comes to its PBS conclusion but......what do I watch now? I can definitely feel a void this evening. Perhaps a rewatch of every Upstairs Downstairs episode? Lol, I'm quite lost!

 

[IceAlisa]

War&Peace

 

[Coco]

@floskate !!! I feel your pain

You have to find a new show. And it will never be the same, but it might be a new, different kind of fun. Calling the Midwife? Foyle's War? You can do it!

 

[skatesindreams]

Perhaps a rewatch of every Upstairs Downstairs episode? Lol, I'm quite lost!

Watching "Upstairs Downstairs" again can't be bad.
Did you love the second viewing of "Downton Abbey" as much as the first?

 

[floskate]

Watching "Upstairs Downstairs" again can't be bad.
Did you love the second viewing of "Downton Abbey" as much as the first?

Better to be honest @skatesindreams. With the episodes flowing I picked up on a lot of nuance that I missed first time around. There are much worse ways to spend cold and dreary winter nights.

@Coco you're right but I'm not going entirely cold turkey and taking my own advice with an Upstairs Downstairs rerun. That should get me through to early spring It will be interesting to compare the Downton prototype and see what may have influenced JF.

 

[skatesindreams]

I thought and hoped you'd feel that way.
Let me know how you feel about UD after watching again, please.

 

[Artemis@BC]

I re-watched all of Upstairs Downstairs about 8 years ago. I found parts of it stilted and dated, but overall it was still excellent and held up remarkably well.

One of these days I'll get around to re-watching The Duchess of Duke St. And The House of Elliot.

 

[cygnus]

@floskate !!! I feel your pain

You have to find a new show. And it will never be the same, but it might be a new, different kind of fun. Calling the Midwife? Foyle's War? You can do it!

If you can find "The House of Elliot" anywhere (not sure if you can, though) it's good as well- 2 sisters setting up a fashion house in London in the 1920s. I think it dates from the 1990s.

 

[Tinami Amori]

If anyone wants a fun soap series, try Brazilian "Avenida Brazil". 178 episodes, and the story lines is very exciting.

 

[floskate]

I loved House of Elliot back in the day but now I can't think of it without seeing French & Saunders spoof House of Idiot
https://youtu.be/sdiZzPFAiCU