Decisions of the ISU Council: Stockholm Worlds (March 22-28) still on; Synchro Worlds cancelled; 2021 Grand Prix schedule/Beijing test event announced

[marbri]

I remember when I was young when I would have actually thought an ice dance couple from Armenia were local skaters from the country rather than two Canadians (one of Lebanese descent) who bought their way to Armenian citizenship just so they could buy their way into the Olympics. Not to take away all the hard work they put in to at least be in the running for the final entry spots.

Something I would have brought up against Lazarus’ claims that they were victims of being from a small federation and thus painting them as poor and put-upon.

A quick google search would have showed you that while both her parents were born in Lebanon that her surname is an Armenian surname and that Lebanon is home to the 8th largest Armenian population in the world and was the first Arab nation to recognise the Armenian genocide. Also that Tina apparently attended an Armenian school in Montreal up to 7th grade.

So disagree with their case they are trying to present but she seems to have a hell of a lot more connection to Armenia than some very popular skaters on this board who country hop with fewer connections to any given country they represent. And it never seems to matter in their cases where their partners come from...

 

[VGThuy]

A quick google search would have showed you that while both her parents were born in Lebanon that her surname is an Armenian surname and that Lebanon is home to the 8th largest Armenian population in the world and was the first Arab nation to recognise the Armenian genocide. Also that Tina apparently attended an Armenian school in Montreal up to 7th grade.

So disagree with their case they are trying to present but she seems to have a hell of a lot more connection to Armenia than some very popular skaters on this board who country hop with fewer connections to any given country they represent. And it never seems to matter in their cases where their partners come from...

Actually people talk about it all the time, especially the serial country hoppers. Even back in the day during the Rent-a-Russian days of U.S. ice dance. None of those teams were a serious threat to medal so people more joked about rich, privileged skaters buying a Russian.

As for her background, that's nice, but that's like me competing for Vietnam. There's a connection, but we all know the real reason I'm representing that country instead of the U.S. where I actually live and grew up in.

 

[misskarne]

Read the comments below the article. Their little misleading sob-story, which hides the concept of Nebelhorn in a single sentence, is working exactly as they intend. General public folks who know nothing about skating are now demanding that they be allowed to compete in Beijing. (One such person even hopes they win gold.) This story seemed particularly aimed at riling up the Armenian community, which also appears to have worked.

It would seem, with this sort of article and the hiring of the expensive sports lawyer, that the cynical takes that they were going to try and force the ISU into giving them a spot were the right takes. I expect to see more of such articles, particularly if they do not qualify at Nebelhorn.

This is a very poorly advised course of action and it will be seen as the nuclear option. I am sure the ISU did their best - considering Sweden was struggling at the time with a surge of 'rona cases, it's quite probable that the lab the tests were sent to were overloaded, and a mistake was made by the lab, not the ISU.

I still thoroughly dislike that they are pushing the "withdrawn against their will" line. It reinforces that they believe they should have been allowed to compete with positive tests that they didn't know at the time were false.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I doubt anyone made an error. False positives are just a fact of life with diagnostic testing. They don't come from errors. They are part of the test.

 

[aka_gerbil]

I doubt anyone made an error. False positives are just a fact of life with diagnostic testing. They don't come from errors. They are part of the test.

There is no molecular biology assay that is 100% accurate and precise 100% of the time.

 

[RoseRed]

I doubt anyone made an error. False positives are just a fact of life with diagnostic testing. They don't come from errors. They are part of the test.

The only possible 'mistake' I see is that he apparently was not told that the second test was negative (it sounds like he was told it was positive). If that happened, it means that either someone lied to him, or a mistake was made. Mistake seems more likely.

I do think that being told false information about the 2nd test is a legit reason to be upset, but it doesn't sound like that would have changed anything in this situation.

 

[Vagabond]

Actually people talk about it all the time, especially the serial country hoppers. Even back in the day during the Rent-a-Russian days of U.S. ice dance. None of those teams were a serious threat to medal so people more joked about rich, privileged skaters buying a Russian.

As for her background, that's nice, but that's like me competing for Vietnam. There's a connection, but we all know the real reason I'm representing that country instead of the U.S. where I actually live and grew up in.

Most diaspora Armenians live where they do because of the long-term effects of the Armenian genocide. Considering how you bill yourself in this forum as a supporter of human rights, your recent posts in this thread are remarkably tone deaf.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

Actually people talk about it all the time, especially the serial country hoppers. Even back in the day during the Rent-a-Russian days of U.S. ice dance. None of those teams were a serious threat to medal so people more joked about rich, privileged skaters buying a Russian.

As for her background, that's nice, but that's like me competing for Vietnam. There's a connection, but we all know the real reason I'm representing that country instead of the U.S. where I actually live and grew up in.

Most diaspora Armenians live where they do because of the long-term effects of the Armenian genocide. Considering how you bill yourself in this forum as a supporter of human rights, your recent posts in this thread are remarkably tone deaf.

In the interest of spreading knowledge...

Armenian genocide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Overseas Vietnamese - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[thvu]

Most diaspora Armenians live where they do because of the long-term effects of the Armenian genocide. Considering how you bill yourself in this forum as a supporter of human rights, your recent posts in this thread are remarkably tone deaf.

Are you really trying to lecture children of refugees on their perspective of identity? That’s pretty pedantic, even for you.

 

[Vagabond]

Are you really trying to lecture children of refugees on their perspective of identity? That’s pretty pedantic, even for you.

Human rights, including citizenship, are meaningless unless they can actually be exercised. But perhaps you oppose human rights.

Other than one or two Israeli posters who would like the Israeli Federation to promote homegrown talent, no one here seems to have any trouble with Alexei Bychenko's representing Israel despite the fact that he has no real connection to the country other than citizenship by right due to his mother's ethnic background. Why Tina Garabedian should be singled out for criticism on this point is beyond me.

 

[marbri]

Actually people talk about it all the time, especially the serial country hoppers. Even back in the day during the Rent-a-Russian days of U.S. ice dance. None of those teams were a serious threat to medal so people more joked about rich, privileged skaters buying a Russian.

As for her background, that's nice, but that's like me competing for Vietnam. There's a connection, but we all know the real reason I'm representing that country instead of the U.S. where I actually live and grew up in.

I know the history of the board. That has nothing to do with the fact that you made incorrect assumptions about Tina and her ties to Armenia. She didn't pick a random country out of a hat and them.

 

[litenkyckling]

The only possible 'mistake' I see is that he apparently was not told that the second test was negative (it sounds like he was told it was positive). If that happened, it means that either someone lied to him, or a mistake was made. Mistake seems more likely.

I do think that being told false information about the 2nd test is a legit reason to be upset, but it doesn't sound like that would have changed anything in this situation.

that and them blatantly breaking the rules by not always wearing a mask in the bubble

 

[BittyBug]

This aggressive PR campaign has a very sour smell. It's an unfortunate situation, but flukey things happen in sport from time to time, and good sports people roll with it and use it to motivate themselves.

“All we want is the chance to represent our country and show the world that we deserve to be there."

If they're so sure that they would have qualified at Worlds then they should be equally confident they'll quality at Nebelhorn.

 

[thvu]

Human rights, including citizenship, are meaningless unless they can actually be exercised. But perhaps you oppose human rights.

Yes, let’s extrapolate the criticism of your condescending views on how refugees and their children in the US should feel about identity into a repudiation of human rights. Astounding leaps in logic.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Skaters representing the Armenian Fed almost always have at least one partner who has roots in Armenia or the Armenian diaspora.

The Fed from Azerbaijan: not so much. If ever.

 

[Lemonade20]

This aggressive PR campaign has a very sour smell. It's an unfortunate situation, but flukey things happen in sport from time to time, and good sports people roll with it and use it to motivate themselves. If they're so sure that they would have qualified at Worlds then they should be equally confident they'll quality at Nebelhorn.

Exactly, it's an unfortunate situation made even worse with all this PR. Are they so worried they won't qualify at Nebelhorn?

 

[RoseRed]

Exactly, it's an unfortunate situation made even worse with all this PR. Are they so worried they won't qualify at Nebelhorn?

I think it's very possible they won't, honestly. There are only 4 spots available at nebelhorn IIRC, and of the teams who haven't qualified Kazakova/Reviya are clearly a lot stronger than G/P-S assuming they're in shape imo. So let's say there are 3 spots up for grabs.

It's hard to say, because there's been so few international competitions and scores to compare. But their SB from 2019-20 was 156.64. I think that puts them in the mix for one of the 3 spots, but not securely in line to earn one. Harris/Chan had 161.05 in 19-20. Turkkila/Versluis haven't competed much in a couple seasons, but they've earned 168+ before. Taschlerova/Taschler were just behind G/P-S on the SB in 19-20, but had 163.62 at Nebelhorn this past season. Min/Eaton had 163.42 in 19-20. Moscheni/Fioretti don't have a SB yet, but I think they'll be in the mix trying to get Italy a 2nd spot. Yanovskaya/Lukacs have missed time with injuries, but they should be in the mix as well. And there are probably others I'm not thinking of.

It wouldn't surprise me to see G/P-S beat most of those teams and make it. But it also wouldn't surprise me if they lost to all of them. So I imagine that yes, they are worried about whether they can make it at nebelhorn.

 

[mjb52]

I can understand why they are upset. It is a really unfair situation. The problem is that it exists within a landscape of unfairness that has been pretty pervasive across the world. This is almost unique in that there was no "right" way to handle Worlds. I think their best case is the idea that it would have been handled differently if they were from a larger and more powerful federation. Seems like the biggest problem was the very tight timeframe for clearing things up.

 

[misskarne]

I think their best case is the idea that it would have been handled differently if they were from a larger and more powerful federation.

I think that's the weakest part of their case, because it relies on a nebulous "what if?" And the ISU can just point out that the lab in Sweden would not care.

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

Moscheni/Fioretti don't have a SB yet, but I think they'll be in the mix trying to get Italy a 2nd spot.

Moscheni/Fioretti scored a 160.27 at Egna Dance Trophy (doesn't count for ISU SB, but was an international comp.)
At the same competition, Taschlerova/Taschler scored a 178.48.

 

[starrynight]

Other than one or two Israeli posters who would like the Israeli Federation to promote homegrown talent, no one here seems to have any trouble with Alexei Bychenko's representing Israel despite the fact that he has no real connection to the country other than citizenship by right due to his mother's ethnic background. Why Tina Garabedian should be singled out for criticism on this point is beyond me.

Just as an aside, I think Bychenko's brother lives in Israel. So there is a family connection there. Although as I understand it, the Israeli fed reached out to him with an offer, as they were looking to bolster their talent coffers.

Also, Bychenko by virtue of his successes in the 2014 -2018 quad was instrumental in helping get Israel that team spot at the 2018 Olympics. So I would say he earned his keep there.

Inevitably, a lot of small feds are going to need to import partners if they happen to have a good pairs or dance man/lady and there aren't any local options.

The thing that doesn't sit well with me is when a skater switches to a small fed just to get an Olympic spot and then straight away tries to get released to go back to a major fed for better options. That's happened before. I feel like there should be an attempt by a skater to develop a connection or enthusiasm for the nation they are representing.

 

[VGThuy]

Not to derail this thread any further, I will just say I shouldn’t have questioned her personal connection to Armenia since it’s all personal. I found @marbri and @kwanfan1818’s posts helpful. Thank you @thvu.

 

[kates8]

Every team would have known the covid rules going into this competition and what would happen if a case (false or real) was detected. I believe each team had to sign off acknowledging these rules. Also even tho they are from a small federation, they train with IAM and Marie/Patrice - if the IAM powers that be felt they had the right to make a fuss, I'm sure they would have at that time, but they knew the rules. Very unfortunate, but as others have noted, they are running on "What If's" and they need to shut down the press and train to make their statement on the ice at Nebelhorn.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Mr. Bottems has been advised I am commencing a three-day mourning period for this stellar Armenian team who was blatantly robbed of a top 24 placement at the World Championships by the bureaucrats of the ISU.

-BB

 

[allezfred]

Mr. Bottems has been advised I am commencing a three-day mourning period for this stellar Armenian team who was blatantly robbed of a top 24 placement at the World Championships by the bureaucrats of the ISU.

-BB

Top 24 in dance wouldn’t have qualified them for the Olympics as only 20 teams make the cut for the free dance at Worlds.

 

[starrynight]

This off season feels super super slow for a pre-Olympic season...

Although noting is quite what it used to be though, is it?

 

[Lemonade20]

This off season feels super super slow for a pre-Olympic season...

Although noting is quite what it used to be though, is it?

You're right on that! It feels like people are being super careful, especially after seeing Radford & James and the "Other" team.

 

[litenkyckling]

This off season feels super super slow for a pre-Olympic season...

Although noting is quite what it used to be though, is it?

Maybe it's partly too because there wasn't really a season last year so us fans are starving for any news and desperate for something new (most years I don't find myself checking the ISU communations page daily )

 

[VGThuy]

It kind of feels like Nationals and Worlds were more of a break from the long off-season that started a week before 2020 Worlds than an actual season.