U.S. Women [#4]: How Dare You

[On My Own]

That said, figure skating is a funny way to express such messages because it kind of falls under interpretive dance and spreading message through dance can be really strange and hilarious unless you got the performance quality and unironic sincerity of, say, the Duschenays.

I think figure skating competitive programs that tend to advocate something, especially the ones as crass as Sakamoto's "Woman" or unintentional laughing stocks like the one Bradie's seems to be, are tasteless, because they read as nothing more than shallow attempts to manipulate the judges into giving them scores.

If they want, there's always the gala. In general, though, I think there have been two, maybe three figure skaters who've really been able to make programs about deeper issues, and I hope more recognize they are athletes first, and that they don't really possess the artistic sensibility or intellectual understanding of the issues they purport to be preaching about.

 

[skatingguy]

I think figure skating competitive programs that tend to advocate something, especially the ones as crass as Sakamoto's "Woman" or unintentional laughing stocks like the one Bradie's seems to be, are tasteless, because they read as nothing more than shallow attempts to manipulate the judges into giving them scores.

That's kind of the whole point of the sport, so what does the it matter whether the way they elicit an emotional reaction from the judges is through an issue based program, or a character based program, or an abstract feeling program.

 

[On My Own]

That's kind of the whole point of the sport, so what does the it matter whether the way they elicit an emotional reaction from the judges is through an issue based program, or a character based program, or an abstract feeling program.

So how would you feel if someone made a program about the shooting that happened at the Colorado Springs gay club?

If skaters want to go there, then they should be prepared for the consequences, and that applies to any and all crass attempts at scoring points. And the sport better be prepared for public opinion on it. And the judges who give it high scores better be prepared for it.

 

[skatingguy]

So how would you feel if someone made a program about the shooting that happened at the Colorado Springs gay club?

If skaters want to go there, then they should be prepared for the consequences, and that applies to any and all crass attempts at scoring points. And the sport better be prepared for public opinion on it. And the judges who give it high scores better be prepared for it.

Considering the long history in figure skating of homophobia, and the recent moves by many LGBTQ+ skaters to talk about their sexuality openly, I think a program that brought attention to issue of violence against the community could be great. There's a long history of figure skating programs about horrific events - how many Schindler's List programs have there been - the programs are judged on the quality of the material, and the skating.

 

[On My Own]

Considering the long history in figure skating of homophobia, and the recent moves by many LGBTQ+ skaters to talk about their sexuality openly, I think a program that brought attention to issue of violence against the community could be great. There's a long history of figure skating programs about horrific events - how many Schindler's List programs have there been - the programs are judged on the quality of the material, and the skating.

Considering the long history of homophobia in the sport - what will happen if this program doesn't get high scores?

If someone does a program about Rape in the Congo, will people here justify it as being an important piece of work due to sexual abuse in the sport? What if it gets low scores?

What if they're tasteless and gets high scores? People might criticize the judges as being self-serving and not doing anything to remedy the issue behind the scenes, but being completely satisfied with giving these programs high PCS.

Do you get the issue now? I never liked Schindler's List programs either. Someone even wore the Star of David and prisoner clothes once. Most of the Schindler's Lists programs have been bland, and have read as disrespectful to me.

 

[skatingguy]

Considering the long history of homophobia in the sport - what will happen if this program doesn't get high scores?

If someone does a program about Rape in the Congo, will people here justify it as being an important piece of work due to sexual abuse in the sport? What if it gets low scores?

What if they're tasteless and gets high scores? People might criticize the judges as being self-serving and not doing anything to remedy the issue behind the scenes, but being completely satisfied with giving these programs high PCS.

Do you get the issue now? I never liked Schindler's List programs either. Someone even wore the Star of David and prisoner clothes once. Most of the Schindler's Lists programs have been bland, and have read as disrespectful to me.

Do you believe that an advocacy based program that isn't well received will hurt the issue? I don't. It's interesting that we're having this discussion because I was just listening to a discussion about the impact of the climate protests on support for climate protest. Basically what it came down to was that even though the majority of people didn't like protests like the soup attack on van Gogh, the long term impact of those protests was that they moved the issue they were advocating for forward to some extent. For example, a group like 'Just Stop Oil' will gain a small number of supporters based on their perceived extreme protests, but others who do advocacy, and protest in ways that don't bother people are likely to be perceived as more moderate, and reasonable by the general public, and in turn receive additional donations, and support. In theory even a bad skating program dedicated to an issue could raise conscientiousness of that issue, for example we're talking about climate change in skating threads,

 

[PRlady]

The cartoon here says it all:

Jules Feiffer

Jules Feiffer is widely regarded as one of the most famous and influential American satirists of the 20th century. He started his career co-writing episodes of Will Eisner's 'The Spirit' (1940-1952) and creating his own gag comic 'Clifford' (1949-1951). Feiffer,...

www.lambiek.net

 

[Coco]

So how would you feel if someone made a program about the shooting that happened at the Colorado Springs gay club?

I have always wondered if Adam Rippon's 2016-2017 short program was a reaction to the horrific massacre at the Pulse nightclub in June 2016. The whole vibe of that short program struck me as "I am a gay man at a club and I have a right to live. I will not hide my flame."

 

[Deleted member 221]

But those with money don’t care. They think their money will keep them safe even as the entire world goes into chaos and kills off the human species. Or they think that’s their grandkids’ (real or just rhetorical) problems. Let me enjoy my life of excess luxury and waste.

AKA elite figure skaters....

I have always wondered if Adam Rippon's 2016-2017 short program was a reaction to the horrific massacre at the Pulse nightclub in June 2016. The whole vibe of that short program struck me as "I am a gay man at a club and I have a right to live. I will not hide my flame."

I admire skaters who can do tributes without announcing that they're doing tributes.

Many tributes are fairly called out as tasteless pandering - Anissina and Peizerat's "I Have a Dream" being a prime example. Lobacheva and Averbukh had a perfectly fine free dance, until they decided it was a tribute to the World Trade Center bombing (which happened after they started choreographing the program) and put ashes in their hair . That's one where silence would've served them better.

We're going off topic, but I don't understand the problem with Sakamoto's Woman. She's a woman skating to a "feminist anthem," but she didn't make any kind of political statement, use any voiceovers, etc. And she is obviously a woman. This one passes my test.

Tennell's program is rich given that she lives in a warm, Mediterranean climate in a country with an energy crisis directly caused by war. She takes part in a sport that requires an overwhelming amount of energy, which is in short supply, and flies all over the world to compete. It's superficial, oblivious pandering. I like her skating, and I like the program despite the silly voiceovers, but it's hypocritical and she's old enough to deal with the backlash. I really had to bite my tongue not to scream "DRILL BABY DRILL" as she pointed at the judges. Just like all the other climate activists, she seems to believe the problem is everyone else - not her. I'm sure people will continue to attempt to try to greenwash the sport, but the climate impact is undeniable and people who are very concerned about climate change should either find a different sport or go skate on a frozen lake somewhere.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Theme programs are risky in that the judges and crowd may just as easily be put off by the message, even if the skating is flawless, and their impact is diminished when the elements are flawed-to-biffed. Being all-things-to-all-people and safely familiar is why we get so many mediocre or worse programs.

If the skaters want to take the risk, that's up to them. It certainly is a way to get talked about and remembered in seasons going forward.

 

[PRlady]

People had trouble with Med’s 9/11 program but I didn’t. Because she personalized it to tell the story of one woman who lost someone.

 

[Evgeniafan]

People had trouble with Med’s 9/11 program but I didn’t. Because she personalized it to tell the story of one woman who lost someone.

I actually think that program would have been a masterpiece, if they just didn't put the voiceovers in it. It was a story of one woman who lost someone, and with Covid it would be even more relatable.
Plus, I think the music is lovely, Barbora of Czech Republic is using it thus year and I love her program.

 

[On My Own]

I have always wondered if Adam Rippon's 2016-2017 short program was a reaction to the horrific massacre at the Pulse nightclub in June 2016. The whole vibe of that short program struck me as "I am a gay man at a club and I have a right to live. I will not hide my flame."

I have no problems with people just celebrating being a gay man or things like that.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I had no trouble with Lobacheva/Averbukh's 9/11 program, either. I don't care that it didn't start out that way.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

AKA elite figure skaters....



I admire skaters who can do tributes without announcing that they're doing tributes.

Many tributes are fairly called out as tasteless pandering - Anissina and Peizerat's "I Have a Dream" being a prime example. Lobacheva and Averbukh had a perfectly fine free dance, until they decided it was a tribute to the World Trade Center bombing (which happened after they started choreographing the program) and put ashes in their hair . That's one where silence would've served them better.

We're going off topic, but I don't understand the problem with Sakamoto's Woman. She's a woman skating to a "feminist anthem," but she didn't make any kind of political statement, use any voiceovers, etc. And she is obviously a woman. This one passes my test.

Tennell's program is rich given that she lives in a warm, Mediterranean climate in a country with an energy crisis directly caused by war. She takes part in a sport that requires an overwhelming amount of energy, which is in short supply, and flies all over the world to compete. It's superficial, oblivious pandering. I like her skating, and I like the program despite the silly voiceovers, but it's hypocritical and she's old enough to deal with the backlash. I really had to bite my tongue not to scream "DRILL BABY DRILL" as she pointed at the judges. Just like all the other climate activists, she seems to believe the problem is everyone else - not her. I'm sure people will continue to attempt to try to greenwash the sport, but the climate impact is undeniable and people who are very concerned about climate change should either find a different sport or go skate on a frozen lake somewhere.

This is border-line trolling. I've a good mind to report you to an admin. I'm sure there are many here hoping you'll just wear yourself out and move on.

 

[Seerek]

I hope more recognize they are athletes first, and that they don't really possess the artistic sensibility or intellectual understanding of the issues they purport to be preaching about.

What would you then make of Ivan Shmuratko's programs this season? Is he also lacking in either of the 2 qualities you reference, or is the issue highly personal enough that he gets a "pass"?

 

[On My Own]

What would you then make of Ivan Shmuratko's programs this season? Is he also lacking in either of the 2 qualities you reference, or is the issue highly personal enough that he gets a "pass"?

If you're asking for a serious, honest evaluation about his programs from me, then I don't think they are good enough. And he shouldn't have done them as competitive programs.

 

[Sylvia]

I posted this Alexa Gasparotto article by Lois Elfman in the previous thread:

Figure skater Alexa Gasparotto has high aspirations

Figure skater Alexa Gasparotto is focused on making her mark this season.

amsterdamnews.com

My Twitter thread (4 tweets) on one of the best 'feel good' stories of Sectionals, IMO : https://twitter.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1590847614488285184

https://twitter.com/x/status/1590854272853233664

ETA the link to Alexa's post after she qualified for her first Nationals: https://www.instagram.com/p/Ck0xHqfLMg3/

Follow-up article on Alexa Gasparotto by Lois Elfman:

Alexa Gasparotto earns her first trip to the U.S. Figure Skating Championships

It’s been a year of training, focus and development, and on Nov. 10 Alexa Gasparotto delivered a polished, confident program to finish second at the Midwestern Sectional Singles and U.S. Pairs Final.

amsterdamnews.com

“My short program was not the best, so going into the long I had to mentally prepare myself more than normal, reassuring myself that I can do everything in the program,” said Gasparotto. “Going into the long and after the long, I was really excited more than nervous. I felt I did really well turning all of my nervous, anxious energy into excitement, which really helped.” [...]
“Throughout the years, I’ve been kind of unsure. I had to relearn how to love the sport as I got older,” she said. “Now, making Nationals, I feel like I finally did it. I have this under my belt. Everything that I’ve been working for is paying off. Also, I feel the excitement from inspiring younger skaters. That meant a lot to me.”

Gasparotto will be joined in San Jose by Starr Andrews, 21, ... This will be the first time in 23 years that two Black women have competed in the senior ladies event.

ETA: At 2000 U.S. Nationals in Cleveland, Andrea Gardiner placed 5th and Cohen Duncan was 19th of 20 in the Senior Ladies event.

 

[her grace]

Andrea Gardiner was fantastic at the 2000 nationals (and perhaps a bit lowballed).

 

[hoptoad]

I loved Andrea!!

 

[DreamSkates]

AKA elite figure skaters....



I admire skaters who can do tributes without announcing that they're doing tributes.

Many tributes are fairly called out as tasteless pandering - Anissina and Peizerat's "I Have a Dream" being a prime example. Lobacheva and Averbukh had a perfectly fine free dance, until they decided it was a tribute to the World Trade Center bombing (which happened after they started choreographing the program) and put ashes in their hair . That's one where silence would've served them better.

We're going off topic, but I don't understand the problem with Sakamoto's Woman. She's a woman skating to a "feminist anthem," but she didn't make any kind of political statement, use any voiceovers, etc. And she is obviously a woman. This one passes my test.

Tennell's program is rich given that she lives in a warm, Mediterranean climate in a country with an energy crisis directly caused by war. She takes part in a sport that requires an overwhelming amount of energy, which is in short supply, and flies all over the world to compete. It's superficial, oblivious pandering. I like her skating, and I like the program despite the silly voiceovers, but it's hypocritical and she's old enough to deal with the backlash. I really had to bite my tongue not to scream "DRILL BABY DRILL" as she pointed at the judges. Just like all the other climate activists, she seems to believe the problem is everyone else - not her. I'm sure people will continue to attempt to try to greenwash the sport, but the climate impact is undeniable and people who are very concerned about climate change should either find a different sport or go skate on a frozen lake somewhere.

I would say pointing at the judges is not wise. If you point at someone physically or with a statement, you're aiming the blame. Say your piece and don't point. And yes, we all have a part to play in climate change, so I point to myself first.

 

[Debbie S]

I think Bradie's program would be a lot better w/o the voiceover. Plenty of skaters have explored current issues in their programs but they've done that through music and movement (ex: N/N's Worlds RD). Greta Thunberg's chastising of the UN doesn't add much to a skating performance.

 

[bladesofgorey]

I was not a fan of Bradie's skating style early on, but her programs the last season were starting to win me over and her short program this year is great for her. The long feels not fully baked. She's become a very interesting skater who brings something unique to the sport and I hope she's able to stay healthy and continue on for another few years because she's really starting to develop into an inventive artist.

 

[Jarrett]

Both of Bradie's programs are both rather lackluster and her jump technique looks worse than before the injury. Not sure if the choreographer turn coach is working out that well. Him being emotionless statue at the boards and K&C are rather off putting as well.

 

[skatingguy]

Both of Bradie's programs are both rather lackluster and her jump technique looks worse than before the injury. Not sure if the choreographer turn coach is working out that well. Him being emotionless statue at the boards and K&C are rather off putting as well.

The execution is worse than before the injury, but the technique appears to be the same. Whether they are attempting to address the technique issues in her jumps is unclear, particularly given she doesn't appear to be completely healed from the ankle injury.

 

[Frau Muller]

Both of Bradie's programs ….Not sure if the choreographer turn coach is working out that well. Him being emotionless statue at the boards and K&C are rather off putting as well.

No kidding! I thought: “Alas, poor Yorik…” as he imitated Lurch in Addams Family!

Lurch (The Addams Family) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So where was the actual skating coach…someone named Cedric Tour? Or is he the musician who is also trying to become a skating coach? So Bradie has no true skating coach - just the two novices who began as choreographer and musician? I don’t even want to ask about who is the costume designer. Eek!

 

[tony]

No kidding! I thought: “Alas, poor Yorik…” as he imitated Lurch in Addams Family!

Lurch (The Addams Family) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So where was the actual skating coach…someone named Cedric Tour? Or is he the musician who is also trying to become a skating coach? So Bradie has no true skating coach - just the two novices who began as choreographer and musician? I don’t even want to ask about who is the costume designer. Eek!

He's a coach and jump specialist, and was so before he dipped into editing/remixing music for international skaters. He's also one of Adam Saio Him Fa's main coaches. He competed on the junior level in the early 2010's.

 

[dancing_on_ice]

I imagine that USFS will just send whichever skaters place 2nd and 3rd at US Nats between Amber, Audrey, Starr, Lindsay, and Ava to 4CC and Worlds. There hasn't been much separating their performances at their fall assignments (though it can def be argued that Audrey had the most consistent season while Lindsay had the least consistent).

 

[Coco]

I caught a bit of the nbc broadcast and was a bit huhh? at Johnny's comments on Benoit being the wrong choice because he was a former ice dancer. Bradie has specifically said she switched to him because of his partnership with Cedric as the technical coach. Seemed strange that Johnny would blatantly misrepresent the arrangement as opposed to saying her technical coach doesn't travel with her or something a little more tethered to reality.

 

[Carolla5501]

I caught a bit of the nbc broadcast and was a bit huhh? at Johnny's comments on Benoit being the wrong choice because he was a former ice dancer. Bradie has specifically said she switched to him because of his partnership with Cedric as the technical coach. Seemed strange that Johnny would blatantly misrepresent the arrangement as opposed to saying her technical coach doesn't travel with her or something a little more tethered to reality.

I feel this way about 90% of what comes out of his mouth.