U.S. Women [#2]: The Unbearable Lightness of Beijing

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bladesofgorey said:
With the caveat that I agree the -5 wasn't warranted, an out of control travel at the beginning of a spin should absolutely mean it wasn't "effortless throughout". It took a big (successful!) effort to get that spin back on track like she did.
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I think I'd go +1 or +2, because I agree it was out of control at the beginning. I'm not sure if you're saying she deserved -GOE overall? I disagree there, but I only had an unclear video (not in the US, so have to watch the stream on YT; wasn't great), so maybe the travel was a lot more than I think?

Actually, I don't like following the guidelines as much because they lack nuance for levels and GOE (change of edge on Biellmann is much harder than the usual COE we get on back sit spin positions, and this neither accounted for in levels, nor in GOE unless it's supposed to be in "creativity/originality", which still isn't completely giving them the credit they deserve... not even getting to the change of direction spins, of course). But since someone did link the guidelines, I think +2 is fine. It was overscored though.
 
I disagree that the top 3 can rest easy at this point. I think that Thorgren should go to junior worlds as that is the right place for her at this point of her career but if one of the top 3 bombs, she could definitely end up in the top 3.

Can't say for sure what USFSA would do at that point, but Lindsay, like Amber, was Group 4 coming in, so I don't know for sure that USFSA would leave her off.
 
The U.S. has three spots for junior worlds. so Thorngren and Levito are favorites. Clare Seo or Kate Wang could get final spot.
 
mpal2 said:
I also kind of see it as letting Adam learn how to coach. Rafael is there to step in when he needs to while letting Adam get the experience he's going to need to be a successful coach.
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It also could be marketing based.

Adam was a star of the last Olympics. Mariah and figure skating in general at the Olympics will likely get more attention with Adam as the coach rather than Raf.

4 year fans may actually remember Adam, which helps with engagement.

It also could help get some buzz for Mariah and create a fun narrative. "Adam is back... as a coach, meet his young starlet"

They may be trying to get a story line going and if successful we may see mentions of DWTS.
 
mpal2 said:
I also kind of see it as letting Adam learn how to coach. Rafael is there to step in when he needs to while letting Adam get the experience he's going to need to be a successful coach.
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I don’t think Adam aspires to coach, does he? I viewed this more as him stepping in to help a friend. Probably to close the gap Raf is leaving while he focuses on Nathan.
 
Dai's Blues for Klook said:
Actually, I don't like following the guidelines as much because they lack nuance for levels and GOE (change of edge on Biellmann is much harder than the usual COE we get on back sit spin positions, and this neither accounted for in levels,
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For several years now -- maybe about 10 -- change of edge in a back sitspin (or simple upright spin) has not counted as a level feature.

The definition of the feature now reads "Clear change of edge in sit (only from backward inside to forward outside), camel, Layback, Biellmann or difficult variation of an upright position."
 
PRlady said:
Thorngren is age-eligible for the Olys and will be right there if one of the top three bomb. I think TPTB will send the top 3 anyway and send Lindsey and Isabeau to JW but strange things have happened.
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I realized after posting that Lindsey is age eligible, but you are correct that she likely would not be considered
 
gkelly said:
For several years now -- maybe about 10 -- change of edge in a back sitspin (or simple upright spin) has not counted as a level feature.

The definition of the feature now reads "Clear change of edge in sit (only from backward inside to forward outside), camel, Layback, Biellmann or difficult variation of an upright position."
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Thanks - I didn't look up the wording (despite the handbook being linked - sorry), but the "clear change of edge in sit (only from backward inside to forward outside)" is what I had in mind currently.

However, would you say this damages the point I made that some positions are harder to do with the COE feature than others, and it's not accounted for in the guidelines? That the feature I brought up is less difficult than a COE on a Biellmann spin or on say an I-spin, or layback Y-spin, or even a standard layback position?
 
If after the Olympics, the top three (at this point I'm thinking Mariah, Karen and Alysa) bow out of Senior Worlds who will be going?

If you want to protect the top say 5 potential to go to Olympics (3 named plus 2 alternate) because of c0vid, who do you send to 4 CC

As has been pointed out some aren't age eligible, some don't have minimums.

ETA - Whelp..there goes Alysa
 
I'm also confused as to why she was allowed in, and who else we're going to get news about next, now.
 
VGThuy said:
Um...how many other competitors are now exposed?
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It's not just about the women's division competitors, she was also in the press conference after the short, wasn't she? Wouldn't everyone else there be a risk now? And they will have been around... basically every skater at this point.
 
Dai's Blues for Klook said:
Thanks - I didn't look up the wording (despite the handbook being linked - sorry), but the "clear change of edge in sit (only from backward inside to forward outside)" is what I had in mind currently.

However, would you say this damages the point I made that some positions are harder to do with the COE feature than others, and it's not accounted for in the guidelines? That the feature I brought up is less difficult than a COE on a Biellmann spin or on say an I-spin, or layback Y-spin, or even a standard layback position?
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Back inside edge to forward outside edge would be a forward spin (left leg for counterclockwise spin). That counts as a feature.

In a back sitspin, change of edge from back outside to forward inside does not count.

Neither counts in a simple upright spin.

I.e., the easiest positions in which to change edge (back sitspin, and simple upright on either foot) do not count as features and haven't for more than half the time IJS has been in effect.

Now, of all the positions in which change edge does count (forward sitspin; camel, layback, Biellmann, or other difficult upright on either foot), yes, some are more difficult than others.

That's true of all features. Some are more difficult than others. Which is why we see some features often and others hardly ever. Maybe some really difficult variations in spins (or various pair moves) should count double compared to easier features. So far the singles/pairs powers-that-be have not taken that approach. If they ever did, I can think of one or two possible spin features I'd like to suggest as double features.

The technical panel deals in yes-or-no answers. If the rule allows a certain feature to be counted toward a level and if they determine that the skater achieved that feature, they award the level.

The judges don't know what levels were awarded when they assign their GOEs.

Nuance is more the province of the judges. They can reward creativity in spins either in the GOE or in the Composition component or both. They have the freedom to consider creativity simply in the use of difficult/rarely seen features, or lesser variations that don't add to the level but do show uniqueness/originality or specific relation to the program concept, etc.

Judges could also calibrate their personal definition of "good" positions according to the difficulty. E.g., they might be more lenient in assessing a position as good in a layback or Biellmann that changes to a forward outside edge than they would for the same position if it stayed on the standard back inside edge.

Same, I'd expect, for forward outside death spiral, which is very rare and evidently much harder to achieve an attractive position in.

That's a judgement call, so it's left to the judges rather than written into the tech panel calling rules.
 
Jammers said:
Well these Nationals are really starting to suck now.
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We need a Nationals 2022 Anthem.......something like "Born to be Sucky"
Anyone know why the tracker kept showing Red for one of the elements (perhaps step sequence"?

Gave me a heart attack every time!
 
BlueRidge said:
Being near someone who is infected doesn't mean a person will test positive though.
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No but it has been found that in a room with an infected person, 75% are likely to get infected too. Then you add other risk factors in such as masks, distancing, poor ventilation (aka ice rinks) etc.
 
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