U.S. Ladies [#23]: Triple Axels? What a Novice Idea!

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I was just posting now...Mariah certainly has my atention... and what a dress!!!! LOVE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we4i13gSzVs

I could see Michelle Kwan skating to this song....

Most improved skater so far!!! (Well, and Bradie!!!)

oooohhhh, Bonus Celine Dion...

from my other girl here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6oUNVOl9Tk

This program will contend for GP medals...she competes with Bradie at SkAm, and this score was higher.
 
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gkelly said:
But even in "the lucrative days of the past" novice skaters weren't getting funding from USFSA, aside from a few who might have gotten into the lowest team envelop or gotten need-based aid from the Memorial Fund. Whatever those few would have gotten would have been a drop in the bucket though.
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I don't mean funds as much as long term incentivizing. If skaters knew there was a big pay off by sticking with the US long term, it would be harder to make them switch.
 
soogar said:
Who is the "we" you are referring to? Even with team envelope funding, skaters (their parents) still foot most of the costs of training. There is no national sports program in the US. Some sports have better infrastructures than others. Swimmers and gymnasts have the YMCA and team format (which doesn't cost near what it costs for skating) to develop talent. Track and field and other sports have competitive high school divisions.
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I was talking about the USFS program as a whole. While skaters definitely foot the bill, the entire system, including judging, the bonus system, competitions, and the developmental program, provides the structure needed to challenge skaters and get them to excel. USFS has made significant progress by adding the bonus system and I have a ton of evidence of that. Skaters don't exist in bubbles. They are forged by competition. Training will never be enough to make a winner.
 
What kind of big payoff could there be? If there are 12 or more new promising novices every year, and there are opportunities for only 2-3 seniors go to Worlds each year, maybe 12 or so to GP, challengers, and 4Cs each year, and many of the best seniors continue competing at that level for 4-8 years, how many from each year's crop of top novices are likely to make it to the top in seniors, or even make it to Nationals at that level?

From the federation's perspective it's great to have a deeper field of talent than they have opportunities available -- that means there will always be someone worthy to fill any open spots, and the competition provides incentive for each of those talented skaters to try to outdo the others and not just coast on talent.

But from the individual skaters' perspective that means there can never be a guarantee of a long-term payoff, either financially or in terms of prestigious opportunities.

At best, if there is more money coming into the sport, the pie available for senior stars will be larger and some of that money may become available to lower-ranked skaters or junior and novice skaters either through direct funding or through participation in a wider range of international competitions with more opportunities to spread around.

But for the most part, a bigger pie has meant bigger slices for the senior national medalists, not more slices for more skaters.
 
^^^ Adam Rippon choreographed Mariah Bell's SP (70.02, 4th); jumps were 2A, 3Lz+3T & 3F with a level 4 step sequence & 2 level 4 spins.

Ashley Lin had a very respectable senior international debut at Nebelhorn, landing a 2A with distance, 3F & 2nd half 3T+3T (59.45, 5th): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjHMZC3uOIs

BRAVA to Ting CUI on her ISU personal best score of 70.20! [SP Video] (a mere 0.04 behind Kostornaia in 1st... ETA: zero points for popped Axel; Kostornaia had received 4.62 points for a 2A+ in her previous SP)
 
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Jammers said:
I can see Ting being on the podium at Nationals in the near future if she gets it together. She's a wonderful all around skater with few weaknesses. By the way when's the last time a US Junior lady has scored that high in the SP?
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I can't recall exactly but eons feels like an appropriate answer. :lol:

ETA: Actually, I think this might be the highest SP total for a US lady on the JGP ever. I went back to check and no other junior has come close. Edmunds, Chen, Gold and all the way back to Nagasu, Flatt, Wagner and Zhang. I think Ting may have set the record here!:cheer:
 
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Jammers said:
I can see Ting being on the podium at Nationals in the near future if she gets it together. She's a wonderful all around skater with few weaknesses. By the way when's the last time a US Junior lady has scored that high in the SP?
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No U.S. Junior lady had ever done it in international competition before today, and I strongly suspect that none has done it in domestic (Junior) competition.

More to the point, it appears that no U.S. Senior lady had ever done it in international competition before today.

http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/pbslsp.htm :gallopin1
 
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ISU has posted a note at the top of their Statistics Personal & Season's Best page, FYI:
"Further to the introduction of the +5 / -5 GOE, all statistics start from zero for the season 2018/19. All previous statistics are now historical."

ETA:
Vagabond said:
More to the point, it appears that no U.S. Senior lady had ever done it in international competition before today.
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Gracie Gold (76.43) when she won the SP at 2016 Worlds: http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/historicbefore1819/pbslsp.htm

Also:
Mirai NAGASU USA ISU CS Autumn Classic International 2016 30.09.2016 73.40
Ashley WAGNER USA ISU World Championships 2016 31.03.2016 73.16
Sasha COHEN USA MasterCard Skate Canada Int. 2003 31.10.2003 71.12
 
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Thanks, @Sylvia! (y)

But, anyhow, Ting Cui's score does appear to be higher than an U.S. Junior lady received in international competition under the old system. Mirai Nagasu got a 65.07 once, which I think may be the highest before this season. A quick check of Wikipedia for Zhang, Wagner, Flatt, Edmunds, Gold, Chen, and Tennell indicates that they never scored that highly in international Junior competition.
 
gkelly said:
What kind of big payoff could there be? If there are 12 or more new promising novices every year, and there are opportunities for only 2-3 seniors go to Worlds each year, maybe 12 or so to GP, challengers, and 4Cs each year, and many of the best seniors continue competing at that level for 4-8 years, how many from each year's crop of top novices are likely to make it to the top in seniors, or even make it to Nationals at that level?

From the federation's perspective it's great to have a deeper field of talent than they have opportunities available -- that means there will always be someone worthy to fill any open spots, and the competition provides incentive for each of those talented skaters to try to outdo the others and not just coast on talent.

But from the individual skaters' perspective that means there can never be a guarantee of a long-term payoff, either financially or in terms of prestigious opportunities.

At best, if there is more money coming into the sport, the pie available for senior stars will be larger and some of that money may become available to lower-ranked skaters or junior and novice skaters either through direct funding or through participation in a wider range of international competitions with more opportunities to spread around.

But for the most part, a bigger pie has meant bigger slices for the senior national medalists, not more slices for more skaters.
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Well that's the problem. In the 90's mid ranked skaters could go pro and make some money there. There is no more opportunities for pro skaters. There are few ice shows and fewer that pay well. Sponsorships are an Olympic year only thing. In sports like swimming and track and field their are so many areas to specialize in. Here? One have just one shot each four years to make your mark. Skating is just not main stream anymore. That's why so many skaters are vulnerable to switching nations.
 
Don't know if it is the Sasha Cohen / Jenny Kirk vibes circa 2000-1, but I absolutely adore the way Mariah Bell skated the short program. So confident and paying attention to every single note of that music - and great pacing. I love that she is varying her speed and movement according to the tempo of the music, something rarely seen these days.
 
rinettoii said:
I think it's highly likely that Pooja is getting a Challenger. She has a top 10 summer score, and if the fed is sending Ashley Lin to Nebelhorn (genuinely not trying to be shady), Pooja will most definitely get a CS. She wasn't going to make the JGPF in the first place with an 8th place, so why not give her some WS points in a senior competition? Even better, assign her to the one in Austria or Tallinn and she gets a bye to her first senior nationals. Plus, if you think about, who else is there to send that is age-eligible that doesn't already have one? Ting will probably be assigned to one as well, but then you get Hannah Miller (who you'd be giving a bye to Nationals because of the proximities of AUT and EST to Nats). You kill 2 (or maybe 3) birds with one stone. Start progressively moving your junior ladies through the ranks: inch by inch raise their PCS and GOE, and covering for the absences of Ashley and Mirai. This really is a developmental period and the fed (imo) has nothing to lose with experimentation, so why not start moving the senior-eligible ladies up through the ranks?

Sorry for the rant...
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Would you look at that... Pooja has received an assignment to Finlandia as a result of Emmy's withdrawal.
 
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