U.S. Ladies [#22]: No More Carrots!

[berthesghost]

... Sumners who really wasn't capable of keeping up with Witt technically (or psychologically) if Witt wasn't too far behind in figures.

That’s a big if! I’ve yet to hear a plausible explanation for Witt’s miraculous overnight improvement in figure between 83 and 84. Sumners bombed the sp but Witt outskating her in the LP is grossly exaggerated, hence the whisper thin margin of victory.

 

[nimi]

Didn't Gracie just accept a coaching job in Arizona?

According to the same twitter user (link1, link2), it went something like this:

That’s what I thought, but after doing some guest coaching in PA for iceworks skaters, she met Vincent and decided she wanted to stay

ETA: Again, this is unverified second-hand info, apply some grains of salt

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Jill Frost's skating was really good. She was quite the powerhouse.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Don't know what to make of this piece of (alleged) second-hand info about Gracie... but I guess I'm going to drop this (alleged) news here anyway... https://twitter.com/Jacobskatee/status/979754540726652928

Good for Gracie.

Irrespective of her short and long range plans, it sounds like she is doing this on her own terms and for herself.

 

[berthesghost]

Good for Gracie.

Irrespective of her short and long range plans, it sounds like she is doing this on her own terms and for herself.

i don’t follow her on SM so I missed how/when she’s ever done anything that wasn’t “on her own terms and for herself.”

 

[Yazmeen]

i don’t follow her on SM so I missed how/when she’s ever done anything that wasn’t “on her own terms and for herself.”

She was coached by Frank Carroll, who is still trying for Linda Fratianne's OGM after 38 years. Regardless of which lady he is coaching...

 

[Debbie S]

i don’t follow her on SM so I missed how/when she’s ever done anything that wasn’t “on her own terms and for herself.”

I'm sure during her teenage years, many decisions (as with most teenagers) were made by others based on what they thought was in her best interests. Now as an adult, she is free to make her own decisions (ex: moving across the country on her own) and be in charge of her own career. (This is similar to what Ashley did in 2011 when she moved to CA to work with John Nicks and then Raf - worked out pretty well for her, all things considered.)

 

[ilovepaydays]

She was coached by Frank Carroll, who is still trying for Linda Fratianne's OGM after 38 years. Regardless of which lady he is coaching...

I guess Evan winning without a quad and being the most boring men’s skater ever wasn’t good enough.......

If this is true, you’d think that would have put things in perspective.

 

[Yazmeen]

I guess Evan winning without a quad and being the most boring men’s skater ever wasn’t good enough.......

If this is true, you’d think that would have put things in perspective.

My point was that Frank likes to mold Lady skaters in the image of what he liked best in Linda; and he isn't exactly Mr. "let's consider your opinion."

I have a feeling there's another Gracie under there we haven't seen yet - not a pretty princess, but a strong woman of her own making. I hope we get to see her.

 

[berthesghost]

My point was that Frank likes to mold Lady skaters in the image of what he liked best in Linda; and he isn't exactly Mr. "let's consider your opinion."

I have a feeling there's another Gracie under there we haven't seen yet - not a pretty princess, but a strong woman of her own making. I hope we get to see her.

well, except for the fact that none of his later ladies skaters looked anything like Linda in anyway, and Gracie was skating pretty princess programs before she went to him, not after, you’ve got it all figured out

 

[olympic]

^That concept of a lady skater, whether endorsed by FC or anyone else, is pretty outdated, both societally and in the sport itself

 

[bardtoob]

My point was that Frank likes to mold Lady skaters in the image of what he liked best in Linda; and he isn't exactly Mr. "let's consider your opinion."

So. Fassi and Mueller did that. What of it.

 

[DimaToe]

Whether it was by her family, coaching team, or TPTB within the USFS, to me it was obvious that Gold was never in the drivers seat of her skating career. If the rumor is true. I would really like to see how her skating would look like with her being the one in charge regardless of what the results would end up being.

 

[Tinami Amori]

My point was that Frank likes to mold Lady skaters in the image of what he liked best in Linda; and he isn't exactly Mr. "let's consider your opinion."

(this is not a trick question). I don't get what is so "princessy" abot Linda F.? she has short hair, athletic arm moves, powerful skating (rather than balletic or lyrical)...?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_z_Fe6u4BM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkqbwisG6rs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUUdi2wHRwI
If "princess" means "don't spit out your gum and wipe your nose with your sleeve in public, say please and thank you, don't yell f-ck and sh-t at the rink, and pick your butt and nose in front of others", then i am all for it....

 

[Yazmeen]

So. Fassi and Mueller did that. What of it.

It was pretty obvious by last year that it wasn't working - the hostility between Frank and Gracie was pretty damn obvious. My main point was that Frank seems to prefer his lady skaters to do it all his way, period, and follow the style he assigns them. And while Linda appeared happy to do that (I saw them years later in a coaching capacity at an ISI/PSA convention, and honestly, they seemed almost joined at the hip), some of his later skaters eventually appeared to chafe at that level of control. I sensed that with Michelle just before they split, and now Gracie. And after reading Gracie's tweets after they split, I think she's pretty much showing us another side of her personality, which I hope serves her well if she stays in the competitive game.

 

[bardtoob]

It was pretty obvious by last year that it wasn't working - the hostility between Frank and Gracie was pretty damn obvious.

I love Gracie, but she was angry with every coach she ever had, hence going after both Frank and Alex on Twitter at US Nationals.

My main point was that Frank seems to prefer his lady skaters to do it all his way, period, and follow the style he assigns them. And while Linda appeared happy to do that (I saw them years later in a coaching capacity at an ISI/PSA convention, and honestly, they seemed almost joined at the hip), some of his later skaters eventually appeared to chafe at that level of control.

I sensed that with Michelle just before they split, and now Gracie. And after reading Gracie's tweets after they split, I think she's pretty much showing us another side of her personality, which I hope serves her well if she stays in the competitive game.

Maybe it was because Linda had retired and become a Disney Ice Princess before the age Michelle left Frank.

 

[berthesghost]

^That concept of a lady skater, whether endorsed by FC or anyone else, is pretty outdated, both societally and in the sport itself

*shrug* it wouldn’t shock me to know that the ladies is a bit behind the others, but it’s not like pairs, men and dance are all “au courant”. Hanyu is lovely and javi is fun, but neither is particularly “fresh” in their packaging. Nathan’s costumes were about as “updated” as we got this year and on cue FSU was all haterationnation on them. And I won’t even get into V/M in the context of “outdated packaging”

I love Gracie, but she was angry with every coach she ever had, hence going after both Frank and Alex on Twitter at US Nationals.

i tend to agree with Yazmeen: Linda, Michelle and Evan were his most successful students and all 3 were level headed and hardworking. Mirai and Gracie are both rumored to be high maintenance headcases who slack off. It shouldn’t be a shock to anyone that frank was all “ain’t nobody got time for this!” with them

 

[Sylvia]

IF Gracie plans to compete again, I'd be happy to see her to explore a more modern dance style of choreography and/or music, like the screechy violin Gershwin SP in the fall of 2013 (minus the screechy part ). 2013 Skate Canada was her best performance of this program, IIRC.

 

[bardtoob]

It shouldn’t be a shock to anyone that frank was all “ain’t nobody got time for this!” with them

POINTS FOR STYLE

 

[my little pony]

IF Gracie plans to compete again, I'd be happy to see her to explore a more modern dance style of choreography and/or music, like the screechy violin Gershwin SP in the fall of 2013 (minus the screechy part ). 2013 Skate Canada was her best performance of this program, IIRC.

i love that program, it really captured her natural energy. the version they used was not the best sound for an arena sound system.

 

[Spun Silver]

Mirai and Gracie are both rumored to be high maintenance headcases who slack off. It shouldn’t be a shock to anyone that frank was all “ain’t nobody got time for this!” with them

I don't know that much about Gracie, but that theory about Mirai being a slacker has been debunked many times. Don't you think her fighting her way back to the podium at Nats and acquiring a triple axel along the way is enough to show how hard she's worked? Vincent Zhou called her the hardest worker he knows, and I tend to think he would know something about hard work.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...er-own-work-ethic_us_5a8f2a99e4b0ee6416a11a17

 

[bardtoob]

Mirai can give the impression that she is not serious because her personality is kind of ditzy, although I find it endearing and a sign she does not take herself too seriously since clearly her actions produce results.

 

[Willin]

I think the thing with Mirai's seriousness was a thing - but more for a short time around when she was a Senior in high school (2010-2011?). I don't think she's been a slacker at any point in the last Olympic cycle, and probably not before 2014. I think her bigger issue is that after Frank she couldn't seem to find a coach she clicked with until Tom Z. (And of course mental toughness and URs)

 

[Spun Silver]

She did an interview with TSL 2-3 years ago where she talked about her time with Frank. I remember her saying that she would fall and really hurt herself, and he would order her to get up and start skating again immediately, and if she couldn't, he'd throw her off the ice for the day. This apparently happened repeatedly. I understand about resuming a program after a fall, but he sounded brutal and I've had trouble looking at him in the same way ever since. This was also the time when he was criticizing her, his skater, to the media for "mooning the audience" ie tying her laces. Last (perhaps), this was the time when she was commuting for I think four hours a day to work with him. The combination of a mean coach and an exhausting commute may have been soul-killing. She may have lost heart for a while.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

She did an interview with TSL 2-3 years ago where she talked about her time with Frank. I remember her saying that she would fall and really hurt herself, and he would order her to get up and start skating again immediately, and if she couldn't, he'd throw her off the ice for the day. This apparently happened repeatedly. I understand about resuming a program after a fall, but he sounded brutal and I've had trouble looking at him in the same way ever since. This was also the time when he was criticizing her, his skater, to the media for "mooning the audience" ie tying her laces. Last (perhaps), this was the time when she was commuting for I think four hours a day to work with him. The combination of a mean coach and an exhausting commute may have been soul-killing. She may have lost heart for a while.

Funny, I watched TSL:s interview with Carroll and he was talking about Denis Tan, and that he would say when asked to do things, "whatever you say, Mr Carroll". Carroll explained that was how a dream student was. Idk, I'm not sure that is necessarily a dream student.

 

[Spun Silver]

Funny, I watched TSL:s interview with Carroll and he was talking about Denis Tan, and that he would say when asked to do things, "whatever you say, Mr Carroll". Carroll explained that was how a dream student was. Idk, I'm not sure that is necessarily a dream student.

Well, I adore Denis and I have no idea if it's related to the "whatever you say, Mr Carroll" thing --but look at what happened to his poor body on Frank's watch.

 

[Vagabond]

Did Denis actually say, "Whatever you say, Mr. Carroll!"? Or did he just say, "Whatever!", leaving his coach to imagine the last four words.

 

[bardtoob]

Well, I adore Denis and I have no idea if it's related to the "whatever you say, Mr Carroll" thing --but look at what happened to his poor body on Frank's watch.

Yeah, well look at what happened to D10's skating under Morozov's watch.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

Well, I adore Denis and I have no idea if it's related to the "whatever you say, Mr Carroll" thing --but look at what happened to his poor body on Frank's watch.

https://youtu.be/ZG13j8A8siI?t=597

Do it 20 times, yeah. I mean, that didn't happen but if you stop listening to your body because you have too much respect for your coach...

 

[mag]

I think much of what is reported from both sides has to be taken with a grain of salt. The reality is that some coaches are fabulous with some students and simply don’t work with others. The relationships can also change over time especially when skaters are only teens when the start and eventually grow to be adults. It is always nice to see someone land somewhere that fits. Mirai seems to have found that with Tom; hopefully Gracie can fine the same.