U.S. Women [#2]: The Unbearable Lightness of Beijing

[baramin]

Doom and gloom in the US ladies thread is traditional But I agree, Karen & Alysa, at least, have to be considered outside medal contenders. Anyone who places 4th at worlds has to be included in the mix (barring injury or other significant change), and Alysa has a lot of tech content if she has an on competition. Neither look likely at this point in the season, but the Olympics are very much their own thing. And while I agree a Russian sweep looks likely right now, I really do think it'll be harder for them to sweep in Beijing than it was at worlds, especially if Tukt doesn't make the team & it would be an all Eteri podium. If, say, Kaori, or Wakaba, or Young You, or the US girls have a hit short program, I wouldn't be surprised to see whoever goes in as Russia #3 to receive a PCS/GOE reality check that drops her far enough that another country has a genuine shot at a medal. That's the key--the 3a is the only differentiator, jump wise, in the short, and it's possible Valieva will be the only Russian on the team with a consistent 3a.

 

[AxelAnnie]

When have we truly seen a “clean” Alyssa? Alyssa has never once skated a clean free skate in international competition. Is it “posssible” she somehow skates clean for the first time ever at the Olympics? Sure, but add that to everything else that needs to happen?



Basically, I don’t get the fuss.

We are all so bored, we have to do something!

 

[Skibean]

Anything can happen at the Olympics- injuries, Covid, quarantined skaters, nor being able to handle the pressure, someone skating a lights out skate if a lifetime- None of the US girls will have the media focus, the quads, the weight of the federation expecting gold or a sweep, the potential loss or gain of endorsements.

I don’t necessarily think a US girl will medal, but I doubt they expect to either. It’s a huge honor just to make it there.

 

[toddlj]

I'm not sure I understand the fun in hanging out in the US Ladies thread to declare them all useless and pre-defeated. There must be a better thread than this one for that.

 

[Sylvia]

None of the US girls will have the media focus

It’s a huge honor just to make it there.

THIS.

 

[Sylvia]

I'm not sure I understand the fun in hanging out in the US Ladies thread to declare them all useless and pre-defeated. There must be a better thread than this one for that.

Hear hear! I've previously suggested that someone start a thread in the Trash Can to discuss the Olympics prospects for any & all the women worldwide - maybe this one will do? https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...-grieving-regarding-“women’s”-skating.109035/

 

[Bulletsdad]

When have we truly seen a “clean” Alyssa? Alyssa has never once skated a clean free skate in international competition. Is it “posssible” she somehow skates clean for the first time ever at the Olympics? Sure, but add that to everything else that needs to happen?

I mean, it’s “possible” that if I lean against a solid wall, I can slip right through it, quantum mechanics and all. This is something that’s extremely unlikely that we can comfortably label as “impossible.”

A US lady medaling at the Olympics is is more likely than the above, but I’d still comfortably label it as “impossible.” YMMV. It’s also “possible” that Sinitsina makes the Russian Olympic Team and medals, but I would label her medaling at the Olympics “impossible” as it’s so improbable. This is ultimately a semantic argument about how we use words, and how definite their definitions really are, and how their uses and meanings change over time.

Basically, I don’t get the fuss.

Alysa was clean at JGP Baltic with two 3a, a 4lz and six other triples. She was doing mostly doubles in Oct last year and managed to be only two points out of silver at 2021 Nationals. I would not count her out for a fully clean FS at Olys with two 3a.

 

[Maximillian]

After watching the whole 'Simone Biles' situation at the recent Summer Olympics, I do have to agree, that you never know. Similarly, as big a fan of Karen as I am, I was STUNNED by her 4th place finish at Worlds this year. I definitely don't like when people come in to this thread to dump on U.S. ladies, but I also don't think there is anything wrong with being realistic and recognizing that it is possible, but not probable that a U.S. lady will podium at the Olympics. But then again, I would have had the same exact sentiment about the Russian women's team winning the gold medal in gymnastics in Tokyo...

 

[thvu]

Alysa was clean at JGP Baltic with two 3a, a 4lz and six other triples. She was doing mostly doubles in Oct last year and managed to be only two points out of silver at 2021 Nationals. I would not count her out for a fully clean FS at Olys with two 3a.

I don’t consider jump elements that receive negative GOE to be clean.

 

[thvu]

I'm not sure I understand the fun in hanging out in the US Ladies thread to declare them all useless and pre-defeated. There must be a better thread than this one for that.

I think there’s more to enjoying skating than just winning medals? I greatly enjoyed Mariah Bell at Rostelecom, and she didn’t win a medal. Was her 140+ Free Skate performance somehow a defeat?

 

[toddlj]

I think there’s more to enjoying skating than just winning medals? I greatly enjoyed Mariah Bell at Rostelecom, and she didn’t win a medal. Was her 140+ Free Skate performance somehow a defeat?

It was most certainly a triumph. We shall agree on that!

 

[Coco]

Lindsay! Lindsay! Lindsay!

Happy enough for you?

In Warsaw, she became the first American woman to land a fully rotated 3z3l with + GOE internationally. And it was at an event where she was judged rather harshly, imo, so I'm guessing these rotations were indisputable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI09jO7VTtw

 

[Sylvia]

Qualifiers for 2022 U.S. Nationals as of 11/29/2021 (I found the document linked from USFS' event page for Nationals):

Championship (Senior level) Ladies (18)
Starr Andrews, Los Angeles FSC (International Bye)
Mariah Bell, Rocky Mountain FSC (2021 Nationals top 5 bye)
Karen Chen, Peninsula SC (2021 Nationals top 5 bye)
Amber Glenn, Dallas FSC, Inc. (2021 Nationals top 5 bye)
Gracie Gold, IceWorks SC (175.76 GA-1) E1
Hanna Harrell, The Skating Club of Boston (171.51 NV-1) E4 - last competed at Nationals in 2019 (won the pewter in her 2019 senior debut) ETA that I guess I wanted to forget she competed last year...
Finley Hawk, ISC of Indianapolis, Inc. (164.29 MN-2) M1
Jill Heiner, Annapolis SC (172.62 VA-2) E3 - first trip to Nationals since she won the Juvenile Girls' pewter medal in 2016
Rena Ikenishi, The SC of New York, Inc. (169.75 VA-6) E5
Gabriella Izzo, The Skating Club of Boston (193.69 MA-1) E1
Isabeau Levito, SC Of Southern New Jersey (International Bye) - senior national debut
Alysa Liu, St. Moritz ISC, Inc. (2021 Nationals top 5 bye)
Audrey Shin, The SC of New York, Inc. (International Bye)
Bradie Tennell, Skokie Valley SC (2021 Nationals top 5 bye)
Lindsay Thorngren, The SC of New York, Inc. (International Bye)
Sierra Venetta, The Skating Club of San Francisco, Inc (179.39 WA-1) P1
Kate Wang, The Skating Club of San Francisco, Inc (170.82 WA-2) P2 - - senior national debut
Wren Warne-Jacobsen, Go4Gold Shakopee Skating Academy (162.05 MN-3) M2 - last competed at Nationals in 2019 (5th in Junior)
---
1st alternate: Alena Budko 163.95 (NV-2) P3

Junior Ladies (18 total; * marks the 8 who are currently listed in USFS' ISP)
Sonia Baram, Los Angeles FSC (156.35 NV-A2) Novice, 3rd - also qualified in Junior Pairs
Gwen Bloesch, SC Of Southern New Jersey (152.03 GA-B2) E5
*Elsa Cheng, Skokie Valley SC (154.07 MN-1) M3
Hazel Collier, The Skating Club of Boston (154.09 GA-A2) E4
*Sarah Everhardt, Washington FSC (167.90 GA-B1) E2
Hannah Herrera, Murray Silver Blades FSC (158.94 WA-1) P4
*Mia Kalin, St. Moritz ISC, Inc. (177.99 NV-2) P1
Katie Krafchik, The SC of New York, Inc. (159.77 MA-B2) E3
Ashley Leahy, The SC of New York, Inc. (147.31 MA-A1) E6
*Josephine Lee, All Year FSC (174.79 GA-A1) P2
Soho Lee, Glacier Falls FSC, Inc. (164.80 TX-1) P3
*Elyce Lin-Gracey, Pasadena FSC (160.76 GA-A1) Novice, 2nd
Hannah Lofton, Skokie Valley SC (157.31 IN-1) M2
Abigail Ross, Wasatch FSC (157.09 WA-2) P5
*Clare Seo, Broadmoor SC, Inc. (179.84 NV-1) M1
Katie Shen, Glacier Falls FSC, Inc. (174.86 GA-C1) Novice, 1st
*Adele Zheng, DuPage FSC (149.23 IN-2) M4
*Ava Ziegler, The SC of New York, Inc. (181.96 MA-B1) E1

8 U.S. women competed on JGP this fall (as currently ranked on the ISU SB list):
19 Isabeau LEVITO USA ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021 09/10/2021 208.31 J
32 Lindsay THORNGREN USA ISU JGP Ljubljana Cup 2021 25/09/2021 193.77 J
56 Ava Marie ZIEGLER USA ISU JGP Kosice 2021 04/09/2021 176.29 J
58 Clare SEO USA ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2021 01/10/2021 174.86 J
63 Kate WANG USA ISU JGP Krasnoyarsk 2021 18/09/2021 170.93 J
84 Mia KALIN USA ISU JGP Kosice 2021 04/09/2021 156.23 J
93 Maryn PIERCE USA ISU JGP Krasnoyarsk 2021 18/09/2021 150.67 J (did not qualify for Nationals in Senior)
113 Josephine LEE USA ISU JGP Courchevel (2) 2021 27/08/2021 144.97 J

 

[DreamSkates]

Well, my 2 cents about who Will medal at the Olympics is…I’ve been surprised before!

 

[wickedwitch]

Lindsay! Lindsay! Lindsay!

Happy enough for you?

In Warsaw, she did become the first American woman to land a fully rotated 3z3l with + GOE internationally. And it was at an event where she was judged rather harshly, imo, so I'm guessing these rotations were indisputable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI09jO7VTtw

We're any of Ashley's ever ratified?

(They probably shouldn't have been considering her flutz, but my guess would be she encountered a lenient caller along the way at some point.)

(Also, it is super annoying that old protocols have been taken off the web.)

 

[livetoskate]

I'm excited that Amber Glenn will compete at Golden Spin. She could win it!

 

[tony]

Lindsay! Lindsay! Lindsay!

Happy enough for you?

In Warsaw, she did become the first American woman to land a fully rotated 3z3l with + GOE internationally. And it was at an event where she was judged rather harshly, imo, so I'm guessing these rotations were indisputable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI09jO7VTtw

No she's not. Tennell got amazing GOE for a 3Lz+3Lo a few years ago at Autumn Classic for starters and did it once again in a later international.

 

[Coco]

@wickedwitch According to the wikipedia page on her, she landed 3z3l at 2008 Nationals. No mention of landing it internationally.

 

[tony]

Wagner definitely tried 3Lz+3Lo at 2007 Skate Canada in the short but it wasn't clean. I think the LP there was where most people first took big note of her. I think she also tried it at 2008 4CC but I don't know about any other times internationally.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I'm not sure I understand the fun in hanging out in the US Ladies thread to declare them all useless and pre-defeated. There must be a better thread than this one for that.

No...it adds spice and interest and cause to respond.?

 

[yeslek]

Adam was good for her pre-c*** (silver at Nationals), not so good last year with those programs (cringe). She seems back to gaining motivation and potential going into Nationals and possibly making the Olympic team. Her programs reflect who she is - elegant ice skater, not a flashy popstar diva.

It also is not good for a skater when the coach sits in K & K proclaims "that's not right" when the scores come up. More than once and loudly enough so we all can hear. So can the judges.

I like that. It didn’t hurt…

 

[viennese]

Right now she looks like Marian the Librarian.

Careful. I'm a librarian.
I dress like a total ho.

 

[Sylvia]

Clip of Mariah on this week's Ice Talk podcast (she mentions the 3-3 is a goal for Nationals): https://twitter.com/IceTalkPodcast/status/1466235514273607684

 

[Sylvia]

Interview with Gabriella Izzo (who is scheduled to compete at CS Golden Spin next week):

Trusting the Process: Gabriella Izzo on attending Harvard and being patient with her career - Anything GOEs

Gabriella Izzo first began her skating journey when she was eight and in 2019, became the U.S Junior National Champion

anythinggoe.com

During the pandemic, Gabriella also began her studies at Harvard University where she plans to concentrate on Government with a secondary in Environmental Science and Public Policy.
“It was definitely weird to start [university] online, not the normal experience. And to meet people online, you don’t really meet people, it’s a little weird but I’m really excited to go on campus this year for classes.

 

[Sylvia]

Fan Zone article on Lindsay Thorngren by Rachel Lutz (Dec. 6, 2021):

With Junior Grand Prix Season in the Rear-View Mirror, Lindsay Thorngren Now Focused on Olympics - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Lindsay Thorngren has been quietly having a breakout season. The 2020 U.S. junior champion and 2019 U.S. intermediate champion was off the ice for about three months

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

ETA excerpts:

… the newly-minted 16-year-old qualified for her first Junior Grand Prix Final and was set to leave for the competition on her birthday. The event was postponed due to the pandemic, but Thorngren has been focused on one event all season, anyway: the 2022 Olympic Winter Games.
"I know what I want to do this year, it's exciting," she said. "I just want to train my hardest because I know what I have do and it's important to work harder than any other season. I want to make the Olympic Team. That would be so amazing. It would mean so much to me."

The support of her coaches, choreographer, and larger circle has meant a lot to the 2021 Mabel Fairbanks Skatingly Yours Fund recipient. The award is given to "athletes who demonstrate and emphasize the attributes of good sportsmanship, commitment, perseverance and determination in striving to be their very best in the sport," the description reads.
"I read a lot about Mabel's story and being named the recipient of the award was an honor," Thorngren said.

I posted another article earlier in this thread that mentioned Lindsay’s mother is from the Dominican Republic.

 

[wickedwitch]

Fan Zone article on Lindsay Thorngren by Rachel Lutz (Dec. 6, 2021):

With Junior Grand Prix Season in the Rear-View Mirror, Lindsay Thorngren Now Focused on Olympics - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Lindsay Thorngren has been quietly having a breakout season. The 2020 U.S. junior champion and 2019 U.S. intermediate champion was off the ice for about three months

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

ETA excerpts:


I posted another article earlier in this thread that mentioned Lindsay’s mother is from the Dominican Republic.

One (untrue) quote from the article: "And before Bradie Tennell won the 2018 U.S. Championships and was named to the 2018 Olympic Team in PyeongChang, South Korea, she had competed in just one senior international event."

Seriously, it would take 30 seconds of research to confirm (or, in this case, disprove) this.

 

[Sylvia]

I merely assumed the person was referring to Bradie's Grand Prix debut (bronze at 2017 Skate America in Lake Placid).

ETA: And I'm as nitpicky as they come when it comes to fact checking articles.

From Tennell's ISU bio: http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs_cr_00034592.htm
ISU CS Lombardia Trophy 2017 (4th) - her official debut abroad
Philadelphia Summer International
2017 (1st) - her official senior international debut

 

[StitchMonkey]

Tallinn Trophy 2016 - Ladies

What about 2016 Tallinn Trophy?

 

[Sylvia]

What about 2016 Tallinn Trophy?

Good catch! I forgot that Tennell debuted at Senior Nationals in 2016.

My original point still stands though - many media folks consider skaters' Sr. Grand Prix comps to be the "real" senior international debuts.

 

[clairecloutier]

My original point still stands though - many media folks consider skaters' Sr. Grand Prix comps to be the "real" senior international debuts.

This may be true, but thinking that is a giveaway that they're generalists (and not skating-specific writers). Not that it's a big deal either way.