U.S. Women [#2]: The Unbearable Lightness of Beijing

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

All I ask for from American skating is that the Women's Olympic Team consist of Bell, Chen, and Liu. That's not too much to ask, is it?

Not if I want my Olympic team to be Tennell, Glenn and Thorngren

Tee-hee

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I'd rather that at least two of the US ladies going to Beijing could do at least 3-3 combo's and that means Alysa, Bradie along Mariah. Karen continues to underachieve and doesn't get near podiums unless the other skaters are absolute disasters.

What 3-3 does Mariah do and when was this?

 

[Karen-W]

If Karen's so bad then why are so many U.S. ladies having trouble hitting Karen's Worlds 2021 score? For two of them, why has it been so hard for them to hit it more than once this season so far?

Well, heck, when you put it that way, why don't you ask Karen why she hasn't been able to hit it all fall? She's had twice as many competitions as Mariah, who hit it in her 2nd competition of the season, and her best was 6 points lower. Alysa, though she's only topped Karen's score once so far has been within 3 points of it three other times this season and her season low is still higher (by .41) than Karen's SB so far.

 

[Vagabond]

Not if I want my Olympic team to be Tennell, Glenn and Thorngren

Your taste in women is questionable.

 

[VGThuy]

Well, heck, when you put it that way, why don't you ask Karen why she hasn't been able to hit it all fall? She's had twice as many competitions as Mariah, who hit it in her 2nd competition of the season, and her best was 6 points lower. Alysa, though she's only topped Karen's score once so far has been within 3 points of it three other times this season and her season low is still higher (by .41) than Karen's SB so far.

My point is that I wasn't the one who said "Karen continues to underachieve and doesn't get near podiums unless the other skaters are absolute disasters." And if that's true, what does that say about the other skaters who that poster likes but has had trouble consistently scoring what she scored at 2021 Worlds? My intention wasn't to talk crap about other skaters, but it was that poster's intention to devalue and spread negativity towards Karen.

 

[sk9tingfan]

What 3-3 does Mariah do and when was this?

I think she used to do a flip toe

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1920/gprus2019/FSKWSINGLES-----------FNL-000100--_JudgesDetailsperSkater.pdf

Yup!

 

[Willin]

TBH all the top US ladies are good enough for the podium 5-10 years ago. The problem is that it's not 5-10 years ago and the tech content needed to medal went up - and fast. When any of Alysa, Bradie, Mariah, or Karen is on they're great skaters. The problem is that now great all around skaters don't win, great jumpers win.

 

[Karen-W]

Frankly, the tech content outside of the Russian women is not much higher than it was 5 years ago. A handful of women are regularly attempting the 3A and landing it in competition but apart from Tuk and Valieva it's certainly not landed with a high enough success rate to make those skaters unbeatable on any given day.

 

[olympic]

Both of you make valid points. The JPN / KOR ladies are for the most part continuing the tradition of maximizing points by executing 3Z -> 2A and getting Lv4s. You have Wakaba and Young You executing a 3A. I can't think of anyone else. Interestingly, Kaori made it to the GPF w/o a 3A, so you can get 'close to the sun' so to speak w/o the big money jumps, but obviously you likely won't beat the Russian women

 

[Maximillian]

Kaori made it to the GPF w/o a 3A, so you can get 'close to the sun' so to speak w/o the big money jumps, but obviously you likely won't beat the Russian women

It also helps if your jumps look like Kaori's and very few, if any other skater's, do.

 

[SidelineSkater]

World scoring is usually the highest point in the season, so reaching Karen Chen’s WC score wasn’t likely possible on the first half of the season. Plus her short Origen combo was generously called if I recall correctly.

It’s not about bringing Karen down at all. The vast majority of US women this fall haven’t been consistent with 3-3 combos in either program - when they even attempt them.

Amber did well in the LP at SKAM - all clean jumps. Too bad NHK wasn’t as successful.

I think Mariah proved this weekend if you skate mostly clean and have decent skating skills, you can hit 140. Hopefully she’ll add in 3-3s. Anyone know if the red dress was for another program? Doesn’t exactly scream Hallelujah.

As someone above said most of the JPN ladies who don’t have quads/3As and are scoring well. See Mai Mihara. I wish Amber would take this approach going into Nats. It’ll be hard to break up the Russians at the Olympics, so stay healthy/go clean and have that Oly moment for yourself.

My ideal team would be Alyssa, Amber and Mariah.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

I am boundlessly relieved Miss Bell has been freed from the bondage of Mr. Rippon's mélange of gay disco. Her new programs are virtuous,classy and worthy of her talent—and the international judges clearly agree.

I anticipate Alysa Liu,Karen Chen and Mariah Bell will be the most proper and well-bred American ladies team since the Michelle Kwan and Tonia Kwiatkowski era.

-BB

 

[VGThuy]

World scoring is usually the highest point in the season, so reaching Karen Chen’s WC score wasn’t likely possible on the first half of the season. Plus her short Origen combo was generously called if I recall correctly.

It’s not about bringing Karen down at all. The vast majority of US women this fall haven’t been consistent with 3-3 combos in either program - when they even attempt them.

Amber did well in the LP at SKAM - all clean jumps. Too bad NHK wasn’t as successful.

I think Mariah proved this weekend if you skate mostly clean and have decent skating skills, you can hit 140. Hopefully she’ll add in 3-3s. Anyone know if the red dress was for another program? Doesn’t exactly scream Hallelujah.

As someone above said most of the JPN ladies who don’t have quads/3As and are scoring well. See Mai Mihara. I wish Amber would take this approach going into Nats. It’ll be hard to break up the Russians at the Olympics, so stay healthy/go clean and have that Oly moment for yourself.

My ideal team would be Alyssa, Amber and Mariah.

The scores were hard but not impossible to reach as evidenced by the number of non-US/non-quad non-US skaters who did reach it in the Grand Prix. Mariah did it at Rostelecom.

And everybody has an excuse as to why they didn’t reach it or wasn’t able to in the GP series consistently but Karen only got that score because her 3/3 was generously called. Maybe Mariah was too. Who knows? Always something to undermine her and talk up everyone else. Karen messes up as consistently as everyone else and one poster calls her an underachiever who can only accomplish things when others mess up. Other skaters have a lifetime career of underachieving and yet people act like they’re so full of promise and one day they’ll hit and then it’ll become a pattern for them - like they’re some newbie with promise when “the realness” is that they’re closer to being a “journey woman” than a starry-eyed ingenue despite the difference in fan treatment they get.

Anyway, even without Karen, everyone else’s scores aren’t setting the world on fire so it’s not like everyone else other than Alysa has a huge argument over Karen other than fan reasons. I say just go with nationals placements and be done with it. Nobody really made an argument for special consideration. Even Liu. If she places a close 4th or even 5th then maybe, but if she bombs Nationals, and I mean bombs, no reason to name her on the team like one would for a Nathan Chen.

 

[BittyBug]

Frankly, the tech content outside of the Russian women is not much higher than it was 5 years ago.

I'm not sure I agree. While there are several Russian women who have quads and reliable triple axels, the overall level of difficulty has increased significantly. Not too long ago, the skaters several places below the podium didn't have a full complement of triples and usually lacked a 3-3 combo. Now even the lowest placing women at any given comp are usually attempting and frequently landing 3Lz, 3F, 3-3 combo, etc. So while the Russians are undoubtedly a step up on the technical ladder, the women's field overall has stepped up as a whole, which is why the U.S. ladies look comparatively weak. They've stagnated, while the rest of the world is advancing.

 

[SidelineSkater]

I'm not sure I agree. While there are several Russian women who have quads and reliable triple axels, the overall level of difficulty has increased significantly. Not too long ago, the skaters several places below the podium didn't have a full complement of triples and usually lacked a 3-3 combo. Now even the lowest placing women at any given comp are usually attempting and frequently landing 3Lz, 3F, 3-3 combo, etc. So while the Russians are undoubtedly a step up on the technical ladder, the women's field overall has stepped up as a whole, which is why the U.S. ladies look comparatively weak. They've stagnated, while the rest of the world is advancing.

I’m not sure I agree with you. I agree with Karen. Depending on not too long ago. If you mean the last five years/quad leading into 2018 OG…then no…top 10 women at Worlds were attempting 7 triple programs with 2 3/3 combos. Katelyn, Gabby, any Japanese skater, Carolina, etc.

However if you mean the quad leading to Sochi, then yes, the top ten weren’t pushing things technically.

In 2018 OG, a US lady had arguably the most complete set of triples/difficult program. Mirai with her 8 triple LP. She added the 3A and 3S during the quad.

The frustrating part is that we’ve known where things were heading technically. Even this season the top US contenders haven’t been putting out 2 3/3 layouts. I guess you can count 2A/3T combos, but I’m looking at a 3R backend or triple-Euler-triple combos. I think Karen added the latter in GP France.

 

[canbelto]

Olympics isn't just about medaling. For those a bit out of the medal hunt, it's about skating your best.

 

[Marco]

Kudos for Mariah. If the 3/3 isn't happening in competion yet I hope she is at least landing it regularly in practice including competition practices to let USFS monitoring officials know that she has it in her.

I do think 3flip-2axel isn't a smart choice because she is discounting 20% off of a 3flip. Since her second 3flip is already in a 3jump combo, perhaps a 3flip and a 2axel-2axel sequence is smarter than a 3flip-2axel sequence and a solo 2axel. Or if some say she is landing 2axel3toes again, a 3flip and a 2axel3toe combo is best.

BTW, those 3lutzes are BEAUTIFUL.

PS I wanna know which universe the Russian GP takes place in that Liza T gets higher spin GOEs than Mariah.

 

[mtnskater]

Kudos for Mariah.

BTW, those 3lutzes are BEAUTIFUL.

PS I wanna know which universe the Russian GP takes place in that Liza T gets higher spin GOEs than Mariah.

This! ^^^^ Thought the same thing as I saw Liza’s GOE’s on the spins appear…and I’m also her fan.

 

[Frau Muller]

…Miss Bell ….. Her new programs ….

-BB

One (1) new program. Hallelujah is old and boring, especially in the Sunday School prissy dress.

 

[yeslek]

One (1) new program. Hallelujah is old and boring, especially in the Sunday School prissy dress.

Yikes that was unnecessary

 

[olympic]

Kudos for Mariah. If the 3/3 isn't happening in competion yet I hope she is at least landing it regularly in practice including competition practices to let USFS monitoring officials know that she has it in her.

I do think 3flip-2axel isn't a smart choice because she is discounting 20% off of a 3flip. Since her second 3flip is already in a 3jump combo, perhaps a 3flip and a 2axel-2axel sequence is smarter than a 3flip-2axel sequence and a solo 2axel. Or if some say she is landing 2axel3toes again, a 3flip and a 2axel3toe combo is best.

BTW, those 3lutzes are BEAUTIFUL.

PS I wanna know which universe the Russian GP takes place in that Liza T gets higher spin GOEs than Mariah.

I think she just needs to get the 3-3 back

 

[Coco]

She's already doing two double toes and one double loop. Perhaps she's concerned she might double her triple loop, and then have too many doubles.

 

[Frau Muller]

Yikes that was unnecessary

Why? Bell’s new red Hallelujah dress is plain & conservative compared with the lovely light one that she wore when she skated the program two/three years ago. Right now she looks like Marian the Librarian.

 

[Lizziebeth]

Why? Bell’s new red Hallelujah dress is plain & conservative compared with the lovely light one that she wore when she skated the program two/three years ago. Right now she looks like Marian the Librarian.

I thought the dress was beautiful on Mariah.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

I'm still impressed that Mariah managed a decent GP season. She hopefully knows better than to look at social media, but criticism has been harsh. Her technical arsenal is a little thin but she managed to capitalize on what she CAN do. Some don't like her affect but her positions, extension, spins are some of the best around.

Does anyone have the skinny - is she really working with Ralf? I've only been seeing her with Adam and that blond lady. If she could keep what she has and get a 3-3 back she would have a shot at Oly team.

 

[jennysk8oboe]

The blond is Rafe’s wife, so I am pretty sure he knows what Mariah is up to.

 

[lurkz2]

I'm still impressed that Mariah managed a decent GP season. She hopefully knows better than to look at social media, but criticism has been harsh. Her technical arsenal is a little thin but she managed to capitalize on what she CAN do. Some don't like her affect but her positions, extension, spins are some of the best around.

Does anyone have the skinny - is she really working with Ralf? I've only been seeing her with Adam and that blond lady. If she could keep what she has and get a 3-3 back she would have a shot at Oly team.

In her pre GP interview she claimed she was working with Raf everyday and with Adam once or twice a week. And the blonde lady is Vera, Raf's wife.

Mariah Bell Leans on Experience as She Eyes Beijing - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Mariah Bell knows how important the next couple of months are for an athlete-- after all, she has been in this position twice before. With a spot on the U.S. Olympic

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

 

[LoopCombo]

Raf is just not traveling with any skaters who aren’t Nathan.

 

[DreamSkates]

I am boundlessly relieved Miss Bell has been freed from the bondage of Mr. Rippon's mélange of gay disco. Her new programs are virtuous,classy and worthy of her talent—and the international judges clearly agree.

I anticipate Alysa Liu,Karen Chen and Mariah Bell will be the most proper and well-bred American ladies team since the Michelle Kwan and Tonia Kwiatkowski era.

-BB

Absolutely agree on your first point!
Wishful with some confidence on the second point. Only Liu has not had a meltdown (or something thereto similar) at Nationals.

 

[DreamSkates]

Raf is just not traveling with any skaters who aren’t Nathan.

Don't blame him. Who else is a possible gold medal Olympic champion? Why take any chances with traveling.