Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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I've met the "other" Sarah Hughes and I've seen this sentence included at the bottom of other NBC OlympicTalk articles:
"NBC Sports researcher Sarah Hughes (not the figure skater) contributed to this report."

ETA an excerpt from the NBC OlympicTalk article on Amber:
On Thursday, she landed two triple Axels in practice at the Orleans Arena in Las Vegas ahead of competing at Skate America on Friday night and Saturday. Her short program and free skate are coincidentally set to the songs “Scars” and “Rain, in Your Black Eyes.”
Glenn said later Thursday, and her coaches confirmed Friday, that she so far does not plan to attempt the triple Axel in competition at Skate America.
“We’re trying to get some mileage on it prior to putting it in,” Peter Cain said. “We were hoping to put it in this week, but I don’t think we’re quite ready yet.”
 
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Jammers

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I love all the US ladies and I want all of them on the podium and it's a problem.

It's insane how competitive the US ladies are with each other and how they still struggle on a world level. 10 years ago all of our top 3-4 would be world podium contenders if they were clean. Now it's much different.
10 years ago US ladies really weren't a threat for the world podium even if clean. Mirai had a brief moment in 2010 but it was Ashley and Gracie who made US ladies relevant again between 2012-16.
 
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Vagabond

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I've met the "other" Sarah Hughes and I've seen this sentence included at the bottom of other NBC OlympicTalk articles:
"NBC Sports researcher Sarah Hughes (not the figure skater) contributed to this report."
🤔

Whatever happened to figure skater Sarah Hughes (not the NBC Sports researcher)? And is there an NBC Sports researcher named Evan Lysacek?
 

Willin

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10 years ago US ladies really weren't a threat for the world podium even if clean. Mirai had a brief moment in 2010 but it was Ashley and Gracie who made US ladies relevant again between 2012-16.
I mean that if our current top 3-4 were competing the same programs 10 years ago they would be medal favorites.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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Karen Chen was 2nd in the Skate America FS segment (I really like her "Butterfly Lovers" program) and was first in PCS (70.48), just edging out Mariah (69.92) and Bradie (69.28).

Audrey Shin had the highest TES (71.18) in the FS and was 2nd in total base value (61.47) to Bradie (62.73 BV, 68.50 TES). .
 

Jammers

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I mean that if our current top 3-4 were competing the same programs 10 years ago they would be medal favorites.
Who are the 3-4 skaters that would be podium contenders 10 years ago? I see only Bradie and Mariah and even them Yuna and Mao were on another level and a clean Joannie Rochette was better too.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
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I mean that if our current top 3-4 were competing the same programs 10 years ago they would be medal favorites.
Oh....that is like trying to compare apples to potatoes. Two different eras with different goals, skills and rules.
 

Ka3sha

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layman

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I managed to watch all the Skate America Short Programs on the ISU channel before they were taken down. I also saw the Long Programs of the top three.

I was really impressed with the speed that most of the ladies brought to the ice (especially in the short programs). I also liked that all the ladies seemed to attack their programs. I am also loving the program choices this year.

I continue to see a lot of innovation and pushing of artistic boundaries in Bradie Tennell's choreography. I like the work she is doing with Benoit Richaud. I would have put her in first.

Mariah Bell looked really fast and in-shape. I was pleasantly surprised by Audrey Shin and even more so by her team mate, Karen Chen. To me, Karen has it all, great musicality and flow, beautiful, fast, centered spins, big beautiful jumps that seem to hang in the air, great posture and body-line...I am always surprised that she does not place higher. I also like the speed and attack and fast centered spins that I saw from Amber Glenn, Starr Andrews and Pooja Kalyan.

Seems like a great start to the season for the US Team. I am looking forward to seeing how far they have all come by Nationals. I like the way that this Skate America was conducted...even without an in-person audience, it seemed like a very exciting event. I hope that USFSA can use this same model for Nationals.
 
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soogar

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Oh....that is like trying to compare apples to potatoes. Two different eras with different goals, skills and rules.
However looking at this competition, US skaters seem to be stuck in the past save for Alyssa Liu. It seems clear to me that the US judges still reward clean skating over attempted difficulty. Mariah Bell and Karen look like throw backs to the Kwan era with 3-2 combos. While it is enjoyable to watch, this content looks really watered down compared to what the Russian girls are doing.
 

Weve3

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8 of the 11 U.S. ladies went for 3-3 combos in the SP and Bradie won the FS with two 3Lz+3T. Everyone knows they have to up their tech. content.
...which is terrific! Bradie almost won the entire comp. I always feel like she is the one to watch. Shin (and Chen) were great, too, but Bradie has the experience edge over Shin (for now) if she skates a clean program.
 

Weve3

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However looking at this competition, US skaters seem to be stuck in the past save for Alyssa Liu. It seems clear to me that the US judges still reward clean skating over attempted difficulty. Mariah Bell and Karen look like throw backs to the Kwan era with 3-2 combos. While it is enjoyable to watch, this content looks really watered down compared to what the Russian girls are doing.
This is a great post because you've managed to sum up the fundamental weakness of US skating. Regarding Mariah, she knows how to work that PCS, which I give her big props for, but up against a clean skate by the Russian ladies, it becomes much more difficult. US judges love a clean skate, but then so do I. However, 3-2 combos will not get it done internationally.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
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However looking at this competition, US skaters seem to be stuck in the past save for Alyssa Liu. It seems clear to me that the US judges still reward clean skating over attempted difficulty. Mariah Bell and Karen look like throw backs to the Kwan era with 3-2 combos. While it is enjoyable to watch, this content looks really watered down compared to what the Russian girls are doing.
true. USa never really got the memo when COP came down the line. COP emphasizes different things and the US ladies kept thinking those gorgeous spirals.and lay backs etc. (And oh how I MISS THOSE) would carry them through.

I'll take Karen's spiral any day.... 4 minutes of it... But that won't win.
 

layman

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true. USa never really got the memo when COP came down the line. COP emphasizes different things and the US ladies kept thinking those gorgeous spirals.and lay backs etc. (And oh how I MISS THOSE) would carry them through.

I'll take Karen's spiral any day.... 4 minutes of it... But that won't win.
I think US skating continues to be influenced by the values that have traditionally shaped US skating (values that produced Karen Chen's spiral for instance). We don't have an Eteri in our midst. That's a good thing. We may not be in medal contention these days (and probably won't be until we get a crop of senior ladies who can consistently jump quads like we have on the men's side) but US skating still looks like US skating while Russian (ladies) skating (with the exception of Medvedeva) looks so incredibly formulaic and cookie cutter. It's skating devoid of soul or artistic interest. Watching paint dry is more exciting than what I saw from the latest Russian Cup. I saw one or two big jumps, a whole lot of arm flailing, clutter and formula and not much else...certainly no connection to the music or any kind of artistic expression. I would hate to see US skating end up looking like that.

I would love to see US Skating that's recognizably American plus the quads from our ladies (like we have with the US Men), but until then, I am happy to enjoy what our ladies are currently putting on the ice.
 

Tinami Amori

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We may not be in medal contention these days (and probably won't be until we get a crop of senior ladies who can consistently jump quads like we have on the men's side) but US skating still looks like US skating while Russian (ladies) skating (with the exception of Medvedeva) looks so incredibly formulaic and cookie cutter. It's skating devoid of soul or artistic interest. Watching paint dry is more exciting than what I saw from the latest Russian Cup.
You're just a pathetic Sour Grapes! American Ladies not doing well, too bad you can't handle it... ;)

That is a blunt Russophobic post, and absolutely untrue. There is nothing cookie cutter about Russian ladies skating, and there is plenty of soul and artistic interest in practically every programme. If it was so cookie cutter and lacking artistic interest then there would not be hundreds of thousands of hits on the videos of the top Russian ladies. Not to mention how many people outside of Russia, primarily from USA, Canada, Japan, stay up nights waiting for the Russian local competition. The demand is so great that Russian Federation recruits Ted Barton to run International coverage.... :)

Live with it. Russian ladies are better than USA Ladies at present...... :p
 

Skibean

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However looking at this competition, US skaters seem to be stuck in the past save for Alyssa Liu. It seems clear to me that the US judges still reward clean skating over attempted difficulty. Mariah Bell and Karen look like throw backs to the Kwan era with 3-2 combos. While it is enjoyable to watch, this content looks really watered down compared to what the Russian girls are doing.
And yet Kwan herself landed more 3/3’s than people think, and Sarah Hughes landed 2 to win the Olympics. It amazes me how people continually try to downplay the US ladies. I see the US ladies as catching up while still maintaining artistry (minus Bradie who is working on it, but her focus is in the technical side). I don’t see many Russians landing quads or triple axels, and to be honest, not many Russian ladies landing 3/3’s past the age of 17-18. They have a shelf life of 2-3 years on the senior level if they’re lucky.
 

Tinami Amori

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I don’t see many Russians landing quads or triple axels, and to be honest, not many Russian ladies landing 3/3’s past the age of 17-18. They have a shelf life of 2-3 years on the senior level if they’re lucky.
Russian ladies who are landing quads and 3A are: Seniors: Shcherbakova, Trusova, Kostornaya, Tuktamysheva, Frolova plus few less known ones. All top 20 Russian Ladies land 3/3 combos. Juniors: Akatieva, Khromykh, Berestovskaya, several more, can't remember all the names i posted lately with "quads" or "3A" on the Russian circuit. And then there are novices.... who also jump quads and 3A's.

Alysa Liu used to jump 3A and quad, but not lately. One more Senior Lady, Amber Glenn showed 3A, but has not done it few days ago at Skate America.

Russian girls don't need to stay in Senior more than 2-3 years past 15. Because at 18 normal people go to college/university or training for future REAL career and occupation. It's good to win as much as possible by the age of 18 and then have a real life.. :cool: Because when one is realistic about what has to happen at 18 as far as choices "sports vs. education/career", that one is not falling into depression, drinking, binge eating, or any other abnormalities.

More and more Russian ladies make it a choice to quit and concentrate on education and/or family and/or business: Sotskova, Zagitova, Pogorylaya, Sotnikova, Radionova, and more.
 
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Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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Trivia about 2020 Skate America bronze medalist Audrey Shin from 2018 when she was 14:
Under Armour turned to a crew of up-and-coming young athletes to help introduce the collection, including: football standout Bunchie Young; figure skater Audrey Shin; free-skier Troy Podmilsak; soccer star Chloe Shimkin; International Youth Boxing Champion Jesse Mehler; and nationally-ranked twin snowboarders, Devin and Barrett Hendrix.
Audrey's Under Armour 30-second video mistakenly is labeled Audrey Young:

ETA that Audrey tweeted a longer, one-minute video for Under Armour in October 2018: https://twitter.com/AudreyShin4/status/1048059614221164544
 
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sk9tingfan

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Russian ladies who are landing quads and 3A are: Seniors: Shcherbakova, Trusova, Kostornaya, Tuktamysheva, Frolova plus few less known ones. All top 20 Russian Ladies land 3/3 combos. Juniors: Akatieva, Khromykh, Berestovskaya, several more, can't remember all the names i posted lately with "quads" or "3A" on the Russian circuit. And then there are novices.... who also jump quads and 3A's.

Alysa Liu used to jump 3A and quad, but not lately. One more Senior Lady, Amber Glenn showed 3A, but has not done it few days ago at Skate America.

Russian girls don't need to stay in Senior more than 2-3 years past 15. Because at 18 normal people go to college/university or training for future REAL career and occupation. It's good to win as much as possible by the age of 18 and then have a real life.. :cool: Because when one is realistic about what has to happen at 18 as far as choices "sports vs. education/career", that one is not falling into depression, drinking, binge eating, or any other abnormalities.


Regarding your assertion that only Russian girls pursue education and real careers, please note the following:

  • Michelle Kwan has a bachelors degree from the University of Denver and a Masters degree from Tufts in International Relations and currently is the Director of Surrogates for Joe Biden; she also worked for Hillary Clinton
  • Sarah Hughes is a lawyer and went to Yale for her undergraduate degree and the University of Pennsylvania
  • Emily Hughes received her undergraduate degree from Harvard and worked as a business analyst for Deloitte Consulting and now works for the International Olympic Committee
  • Sasha Cohen's bachelors degree is from Columbia, one of the Ivy League schools and majored in finance
  • Karen Chen currently attends Cornell, one of the Ivy League schools in the department of Human Biology, Health and Society on a pre-med track.
  • Mirai Nagasu is attending the University of Colorado with a major in business
  • Kimmie Meissner has a bachelors degree and is currently pursuing a Physician's Assistant degree, both from Towson, in Maryland. She still coaches actively
  • Ashley Wagner is enrolled at Northeastern in Boston Massachusetts
  • Bradie Tennell, while actively coaching is potentially pursuing a career in the medical field
  • Alysa Liu is o track to graduate from high school at least a year ahead of time; undoubtedly, she will pursue a serious field of study
There are many others who have degrees and careers who are not as famous, but I would note that Tenley Albright, the 1956 Olympic Champion is a stellar example from Wikipedia)

"A graduate of The Winsor School in Boston, Albright entered Radcliffe College in 1953 as a pre-med student,[7] and focused on completing her education after the 1956 Olympics.[8] She graduated from Harvard Medical School in 1961 at the age of 24,[9] went on to become a surgeon,[8][10] and she practiced for 23 years, continuing as a faculty member and lecturer at Harvard Medical School. For a while, she chaired the Board of Regents of the National Library of Medicine at the National Institutes of Health. As a director, she has served both not-for-profits such as The Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research and the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution and for-profit enterprises such as West Pharmaceutical Services, Inc., and State Street Bank and Trust Company.[11] She is currently the Director of the MIT Collaborative Initiatives."

I think to dismiss the American ladies prematurely is short-sighted.
 
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DreamSkates

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This is a great post because you've managed to sum up the fundamental weakness of US skating. Regarding Mariah, she knows how to work that PCS, which I give her big props for, but up against a clean skate by the Russian ladies, it becomes much more difficult. US judges love a clean skate, but then so do I. However, 3-2 combos will not get it done internationally.
She likely knows this and is capable of more and is going to work toward landing those in the future.
 

Karen-W

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Regarding your assertion that only Russian girls pursue education and real careers, please note the following:

  • Michelle Kwan has a bachelors degree from the University of Denver and a Masters degree from Tufts in International Relations and currently is the Director of Surrogates for Joe Biden; she also worked for Hillary Clinton
  • Sarah Hughes is a lawyer and went to Yale for her undergraduate degree and the University of Pennsylvania
  • Emily Hughes received her undergraduate degree from Harvard and worked as a business analyst for Deloitte Consulting and now works for the International Olympic Committee
  • Sasha Cohen's bachelors degree is from Columbia, one of the Ivy League schools and majored in finance
  • Karen Chen currently attends Cornell, one of the Ivy League schools in the department of Human Biology, Health and Society on a pre-med track.
  • Mirai Nagasu is attending the University of Colorado with a major in business
  • Kimmie Meissner has a bachelors degree and is currently pursuing a Physician's Assistant degree, both from Towson, in Maryland. She still coaches actively
  • Ashley Wagner is enrolled at Northeastern in Boston Massachusetts
  • Bradie Tennell, while actively coaching is potentially pursuing a career in the medical field
  • Alysa Liu is o track to graduate from high school at least a year ahead of time; undoubtedly, she will pursue a serious field of study
There are many others who have degrees and careers who are not as famous, but I would note that Tenley Albright, the 1956 Olympic Champion is a stellar example from Wikipedia)

"A graduate of The Winsor School in Boston, Albright entered Radcliffe College in 1953 as a pre-med student,[7] and focused on completing her education after the 1956 Olympics.[8] She graduated from Harvard Medical School in 1961 at the age of 24,[9] went on to become a surgeon,[8][10] and she practiced for 23 years, continuing as a faculty member and lecturer at Harvard Medical School. For a while, she chaired the Board of Regents of the National Library of Medicine at the National Institutes of Health. As a director, she has served both not-for-profits such as The Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research and the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution and for-profit enterprises such as West Pharmaceutical Services, Inc., and State Street Bank and Trust Company.[11] She is currently the Director of the MIT Collaborative Initiatives."

I think to dismiss the American ladies prematurely is short-sighted.
And let's not forget we have an entire thread dedicated to Rachael Flatt is a graduate of Stanford with a degree in biology and is pursuing a PhD from the University of North Carolina. In addition, she wrote her Masters thesis on eating disorders among elite athletes.

And Polina Edmunds is at the University of Santa Clara (or did she graduate this summer?).

Most of the US Ladies who have been Olympians in the last 20 years have been outstanding scholars in addition to their athletic achievements. Only 3 of the 14 since 1998 have not earned a University degree (and one of those 3 is still actively competing). I think that the US ladies are more than holding their own with Russia's ladies when it comes to academic achievement.
 

sk9tingfan

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And let's not forget we have an entire thread dedicated to Rachael Flatt is a graduate of Stanford with a degree in biology and is pursuing a PhD from the University of North Carolina. In addition, she wrote her Masters thesis on eating disorders among elite athletes.

And Polina Edmunds is at the University of Santa Clara (or did she graduate this summer?).

Most of the US Ladies who have been Olympians in the last 20 years have been outstanding scholars in addition to their athletic achievements. Only 3 of the 14 since 1998 have not earned a University degree (and one of those 3 is still actively competing). I think that the US ladies are more than holding their own with Russia's ladies when it comes to academic achievement.
Thanks so much. I forgot about Rachael Flatt. She is a stellar example. As I said, if we put our collective heads together, we would find other such examples. Although not a high level skater, Condi Rice was the Secretary of State and Vera Wang heads up a fashion empire worth many millions.
 

Marco

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I am so in love with Karen's Butterfly Lovers program. There should have been a certain bittersweet / "til death do us 'part" element to this story before the lovers died and turned into butterflies. But other than that, I felt she used the music BEAUTIFULLY. To me she should have won the free skate and had the silver overall.

Mariah was coming into her own self and was so confident. That said, I HATE the ABBA program. So she lost Nationals, I wanna bet it's because of this program holding her back. I would place her 2nd in the free but 1st overall.

Bradie's program was a let down after Sunset Blvd last season highlighted her crispness and precision. They were all but lost this season. Her jumps continued to be problematic but I am glad they at least got rid of the lutz/loop combo for now. Not a fan of her this season. Would place her off the podium here because almost everything Audrey did was better.
 

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