U.S. Ladies [#29]: Skating with Adjusted Vision

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layman said:
.... Watching paint dry is more exciting than what I saw from the latest Russian Cup. ...
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You obviously didn’t see Sofia Samodurova’s very unique FS from Russia Cup 3. 😉 However, I agree with most else that you wrote.
 
layman said:
I think US skating continues to be influenced by the values that have traditionally shaped US skating (values that produced Karen Chen's spiral for instance). We don't have an Eteri in our midst. That's a good thing. We may not be in medal contention these days (and probably won't be until we get a crop of senior ladies who can consistently jump quads like we have on the men's side) but US skating still looks like US skating while Russian (ladies) skating (with the exception of Medvedeva) looks so incredibly formulaic and cookie cutter. It's skating devoid of soul or artistic interest. Watching paint dry is more exciting than what I saw from the latest Russian Cup. I saw one or two big jumps, a whole lot of arm flailing, clutter and formula and not much else...certainly no connection to the music or any kind of artistic expression. I would hate to see US skating end up looking like that.

I would love to see US Skating that's recognizably American plus the quads from our ladies (like we have with the US Men), but until then, I am happy to enjoy what our ladies are currently putting on the ice.
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Yeah, the don't reward good jumping... (Oh wait, our 2 time national champ is winning based on jumping and when she does the whining on here is "USFS is focusing too much on jumps. LOL!)
 
dramagrrl said:
The NBC researcher Sarah Hughes is also often seen on Nastia Liukin's Instagram stories during gymnastics competitions.
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She also used to be a really good friend of Ashley Wagner’s but they seem to no longer be following each other so...
 
Tinami Amori said:
You're just a pathetic Sour Grapes! American Ladies not doing well, too bad you can't handle it... ;)

That is a blunt Russophobic post, and absolutely untrue. There is nothing cookie cutter about Russian ladies skating, and there is plenty of soul and artistic interest in practically every programme. If it was so cookie cutter and lacking artistic interest then there would not be hundreds of thousands of hits on the videos of the top Russian ladies. Not to mention how many people outside of Russia, primarily from USA, Canada, Japan, stay up nights waiting for the Russian local competition. The demand is so great that Russian Federation recruits Ted Barton to run International coverage.... :)

Live with it. Russian ladies are better than USA Ladies at present...... :p
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Tinami Amorl, I'm surprised at you. As long as you've been here and you fell for that click-bait? Seriously, there is a North American style. The training, past champions, I don't know. I think of Kaetlyn Osmond as the "type" Is there a Russian tradition? Slutskaya - fast, lot's of action, not so much striking poses, athletic jumps.
 
sk9tingfan said:
Regarding your assertion that only Russian girls pursue education and real careers, please note the following:

  • Michelle Kwan has a bachelors degree from the University of Denver and a Masters degree from Tufts in International Relations and currently is the Director of Surrogates for Joe Biden; she also worked for Hillary Clinton
  • Sarah Hughes is a lawyer and went to Yale for her undergraduate degree and the University of Pennsylvania
  • Emily Hughes received her undergraduate degree from Harvard and worked as a business analyst for Deloitte Consulting and now works for the International Olympic Committee
  • Sasha Cohen's bachelors degree is from Columbia, one of the Ivy League schools and majored in finance
  • Karen Chen currently attends Cornell, one of the Ivy League schools in the department of Human Biology, Health and Society on a pre-med track.
  • Mirai Nagasu is attending the University of Colorado with a major in business
  • Kimmie Meissner has a bachelors degree and is currently pursuing a Physician's Assistant degree, both from Towson, in Maryland. She still coaches actively
  • Ashley Wagner is enrolled at Northeastern in Boston Massachusetts
  • Bradie Tennell, while actively coaching is potentially pursuing a career in the medical field
  • Alysa Liu is o track to graduate from high school at least a year ahead of time; undoubtedly, she will pursue a serious field of study
There are many others who have degrees and careers who are not as famous, but I would note that Tenley Albright, the 1956 Olympic Champion is a stellar example from Wikipedia)

"A graduate of The Winsor School in Boston, Albright entered Radcliffe College in 1953 as a pre-med student,[7] and focused on completing her education after the 1956 Olympics.[8] She graduated from Harvard Medical School in 1961 at the age of 24,[9] went on to become a surgeon,[8][10] and she practiced for 23 years, continuing as a faculty member and lecturer at Harvard Medical School. For a while, she chaired the Board of Regents of the National Library of Medicine at the National Institutes of Health. As a director, she has served both not-for-profits such as The Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research and the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution and for-profit enterprises such as West Pharmaceutical Services, Inc., and State Street Bank and Trust Company.[11] She is currently the Director of the MIT Collaborative Initiatives."

I think to dismiss the American ladies prematurely is short-sighted.
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Here is a list of 1998 -2018 TeamUSA USFS Olympians ( 14 women) and their education credentials and some associated career work linked to their educations. I probably should do the same for the other disciplines as well ;-)

21% did not pursue undergraduate degrees at this point in time
29% currently enrolled, or some level of undergraduate coursework completed
50% with undergraduate and/or graduate coursework completed

So, to the point above, re: the RUS federation and their skaters pursuing undergraduate or graduate educations ....I am going to hazard a guess that there is more support financially thru their universities or government for the athletes to pursue degrees?? Whereas, there is little to no financial support for US skaters to attend undergraduate programs...other than chasing down academic scholarships, aside from their own parents or $ that they have saved thru sponsorship deals, shows, etc.

1998 - 2018 Team USA Olympians: USFS women and collegiate CVs (alphabetical order)


1998
Nicole Bobek: IIRC, she completed her high school equivalency work a number of years ago; skating shows, some film work; no undergraduate college degree IIRC

Michelle Kwan: 2009 University of Denver Josef Korbel School of International Studies with a bachelor's degree in international studies and a minor in political science; 2011 Master’s degree Tufts University Fletcher’s School of Law and Diplomacy/International Relations; Kwan worked as a surrogate to Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign as an outreach coordinator; Director of Surrogates for Joe Biden’s 2020 campaign

Tara Lipinski: NBC TV sports host, commentator and analyst; IIRC, no undergraduate college degree IIRC



2002
Sasha Cohen: Class of 2016, Columbia University, degree in political science; Currently at Morgan Stanley/Investment Management

Sarah Hughes: Yale, Class of 2009/American Studies with concentration in US Politics and communities; University of Pennsylvania 2018, J.D. Currently an associate at Proskauer Rose LLP firm

Michelle Kwan: 2009 University of Denver Josef Korbel School of International Studies with a bachelor's degree in international studies and a minor in political science; 2011 Master’s degree Tufts University Fletcher’s School of Law and Diplomacy/International Relations; Associated work: Kwan worked as a surrogate to Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign as an outreach coordinator; Director of Surrogates for Joe Biden’s 2020 campaign


2006
Sasha Cohen: Class of 2016, Columbia University, degree in political science; Currently at Morgan Stanley/Investment Management

Emily Hughes: Harvard, class of 2011/ Sociology major with a minor in government; currently works on developing sports partnerships at Facebook

Kimmie Meissner: Towson Univeristy, BS English Language, Literature and Writing; Currently enrolled as M.S. student at Towson, in the Physician Assistant program



2010
Rachael Flatt: Graduated with honors with BS in Biology/Stanford University; 2020 Masters Degree from UNC/Chapel Hill (eating disorders in elite athletes); PhD Candidate UNC/Chapel Hill; associated work… USOPC Mental Health Task Force; Chair AAC USFS and BoD; Diversity working committees for USOPC and USFS

Mirai Nagasu: enrolled in undergrad program (business) University of Colorado, Colorado Springs; internship with ABC LA; currently a resident of Boston;



2014
Polina Edmunds: 2020 Santa Clara University BA, Communication and Media Studies; working as podcast host at Bleav Podcast Network

Gracie Gold: Not currently enrolled in undergraduate studies

Ashley Wagner: enrolled autumn 2020 as an undergraduate at Northeastern University


2018
Karen Chen: Enrolled at Cornell University School of Human Ecology/Human Bio major; anticipated graduation 2023

Mirai Nagasu: enrolled in undergrad program (business) University of Colorado, Colorado Springs (not yet graduated); internship with ABC LA; Currently a resident of Boston.

Bradie Tennell: Community college classes while she trained in Illinois; Currently training in Colorado Springs
 
B.Cooper said:
So, to the point above, re: the RUS federation and their skaters pursuing undergraduate or graduate educations ....I am going to hazard a guess that there is more support financially thru their universities or government for the athletes to pursue degrees?? Whereas, there is little to no financial support for US skaters to attend undergraduate programs...other than chasing down academic scholarships, aside from their own parents or $ that they have saved thru sponsorship deals, shows, etc.
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There is, in fact, public financial support for college education in the United States. It's far from perfect, but it is widespread.

As for the Russians, historically, most elite skaters in that country have obtained degrees in Physical Education and gone on to work in the sports industry. My impression from reading posts here on FSU is that Russian skaters nowadays are increasingly likely to study other disciplines, but I have not seen any detailed analysis.
 
Polina Edmunds' latest podcast episode:
bleav.com

Skate America Ladies Breakdown | Bleav Podcast Network

This episode breaks down the Ladies event at Skate America, with my commentary on all the skaters. In order: Gracie Gold, Finley Hawk, Paige Rydberg, Pooja Kalyan, Sierra Venetta, Shan Lin…
bleav.com bleav.com
This episode breaks down the Ladies event at Skate America, with my commentary on all the skaters. In order: Gracie Gold, Finley Hawk, Paige Rydberg, Pooja Kalyan, Sierra Venetta, Shan Lin, Starr Andrews, Karen Chen, Audrey Shin, Amber Glenn, Bradie Tennell, & Mariah Bell. Discussing their highlights, things to improve, and the triple-triple combination in Ladies skating.
Click to expand...
Polina welcomes feedback here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CG2uxkjJiE9/
 
B.Cooper said:
Here is a list of 1998 -2018 TeamUSA USFS Olympians ( 14 women) and their education credentials and some associated career work linked to their educations. I probably should do the same for the other disciplines as well ;-)

21% did not pursue undergraduate degrees at this point in time
29% currently enrolled, or some level of undergraduate coursework completed
50% with undergraduate and/or graduate coursework completed

So, to the point above, re: the RUS federation and their skaters pursuing undergraduate or graduate educations ....I am going to hazard a guess that there is more support financially thru their universities or government for the athletes to pursue degrees?? Whereas, there is little to no financial support for US skaters to attend undergraduate programs...other than chasing down academic scholarships, aside from their own parents or $ that they have saved thru sponsorship deals, shows, etc.

1998 - 2018 Team USA Olympians: USFS women and collegiate CVs (alphabetical order)


1998
Nicole Bobek: IIRC, she completed her high school equivalency work a number of years ago; skating shows, some film work; no undergraduate college degree IIRC

Michelle Kwan: 2009 University of Denver Josef Korbel School of International Studies with a bachelor's degree in international studies and a minor in political science; 2011 Master’s degree Tufts University Fletcher’s School of Law and Diplomacy/International Relations; Kwan worked as a surrogate to Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign as an outreach coordinator; Director of Surrogates for Joe Biden’s 2020 campaign

Tara Lipinski: NBC TV sports host, commentator and analyst; IIRC, no undergraduate college degree IIRC



2002
Sasha Cohen: Class of 2016, Columbia University, degree in political science; Currently at Morgan Stanley/Investment Management

Sarah Hughes: Yale, Class of 2009/American Studies with concentration in US Politics and communities; University of Pennsylvania 2018, J.D. Currently an associate at Proskauer Rose LLP firm

Michelle Kwan: 2009 University of Denver Josef Korbel School of International Studies with a bachelor's degree in international studies and a minor in political science; 2011 Master’s degree Tufts University Fletcher’s School of Law and Diplomacy/International Relations; Associated work: Kwan worked as a surrogate to Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign as an outreach coordinator; Director of Surrogates for Joe Biden’s 2020 campaign


2006
Sasha Cohen: Class of 2016, Columbia University, degree in political science; Currently at Morgan Stanley/Investment Management

Emily Hughes: Harvard, class of 2011/ Sociology major with a minor in government; currently works on developing sports partnerships at Facebook

Kimmie Meissner: Towson Univeristy, BS English Language, Literature and Writing; Currently enrolled as M.S. student at Towson, in the Physician Assistant program



2010
Rachael Flatt: Graduated with honors with BS in Biology/Stanford University; 2020 Masters Degree from UNC/Chapel Hill (eating disorders in elite athletes); PhD Candidate UNC/Chapel Hill; associated work… USOPC Mental Health Task Force; Chair AAC USFS and BoD; Diversity working committees for USOPC and USFS

Mirai Nagasu: enrolled in undergrad program (business) University of Colorado, Colorado Springs; internship with ABC LA; currently a resident of Boston;



2014
Polina Edmunds: 2020 Santa Clara University BA, Communication and Media Studies; working as podcast host at Bleav Podcast Network

Gracie Gold: Not currently enrolled in undergraduate studies

Ashley Wagner: enrolled autumn 2020 as an undergraduate at Northeastern University


2018
Karen Chen: Enrolled at Cornell University School of Human Ecology/Human Bio major; anticipated graduation 2023

Mirai Nagasu: enrolled in undergrad program (business) University of Colorado, Colorado Springs (not yet graduated); internship with ABC LA; Currently a resident of Boston.

Bradie Tennell: Community college classes while she trained in Illinois; Currently training in Colorado Springs
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Thx for further clarifying my point.
 
Sylvia said:
Polina Edmunds' latest podcast episode:
bleav.com

Skate America Ladies Breakdown | Bleav Podcast Network

This episode breaks down the Ladies event at Skate America, with my commentary on all the skaters. In order: Gracie Gold, Finley Hawk, Paige Rydberg, Pooja Kalyan, Sierra Venetta, Shan Lin…
bleav.com bleav.com

Polina welcomes feedback here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CG2uxkjJiE9/
Click to expand...
I enjoyed this. It was fairly short and easy to listen to. I liked her commentary at the end on the importance of triple triples for the U.S. Ladies.
And she thought Audrey should have won. :)
 
Marco said:
I am so in love with Karen's Butterfly Lovers program. There should have been a certain bittersweet / "til death do us 'part" element to this story before the lovers died and turned into butterflies. But other than that, I felt she used the music BEAUTIFULLY. To me she should have won the free skate and had the silver overall.

Mariah was coming into her own self and was so confident. That said, I HATE the ABBA program. So she lost Nationals, I wanna bet it's because of this program holding her back. I would place her 2nd in the free but 1st overall.

Bradie's program was a let down after Sunset Blvd last season highlighted her crispness and precision. They were all but lost this season. Her jumps continued to be problematic but I am glad they at least got rid of the lutz/loop combo for now. Not a fan of her this season. Would place her off the podium here because almost everything Audrey did was better.
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Mariah didn't "lose" Nationals, she won the night and a silver medal with her long program. Abba is only in use this year. Not my favorite but capable of serious points.
I like Karen's program the best out of the 4 you mentioned. Audrey 2nd. I hadn't paid much attention to Audrey before but now see what others have been talking about. Nationals in Jan. will be very interesting.
Bradie will likely just work harder now to catch up.
 
annie720 said:
I enjoyed this. It was fairly short and easy to listen to. I liked her commentary at the end on the importance of triple triples for the U.S. Ladies.
And she thought Audrey should have won. :)
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Audrey is showing what she is capable of so should get more kudos (points) from judges if she holds up in future competitions.
 
Toshi_Berra said:
Audrey has a lovely lyrical style but those jumps are concerning. :yikes:
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It looks to me like she has plenty of jumping ability but needs a coach to teach her how to cross at the ankle not the calf. She has good skating skills, performance quality, commitment to choreography, etc.
Karen was nice, she always is. I'm happy we got to see her lutz without an under rotated toe at the end.
I hate ABBA as much as everyone else, it's a shame bec Mariah has had some of the best programs recently.
I feel bad for Bradie. Idk what will be with her jumps, maybe it's a rough patch and at a good time bec this season hardly matters. Maybe she's past her peak. As for the programs...her team has clearly decided to combat boring with sexy again in the short but it's such a mismatch and I have a hard time watching.
 
Marco said:
I am so in love with Karen's Butterfly Lovers program. There should have been a certain bittersweet / "til death do us 'part" element to this story before the lovers died and turned into butterflies. But other than that, I felt she used the music BEAUTIFULLY. To me she should have won the free skate and had the silver overall.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. However, "Betterfly Lovers" just belongs to Lu Chen.
 
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Audrey has improved the leg wrap in her jumps in recent years... noticeably to me anyway. She had an Instagram Live chat yesterday that I enjoyed watching: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CG_IlLeprDK/

ETA:

She mentioned that Tammy Gambill encouraged her to compete in one of the Championship Series competitions (Henderson, Nevada, Nov. 24-28) even though she has earned a bye to Nationals due to being the top finisher, among the ladies without byes, in the ISP Points Challenge.
 
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AxelAnnie said:
Ok...I plead dumbness...annd I love Alisa.....but what was that? That was a hot mess. I know it is an exhibition but why didn't she do a couple of jumps. Is she injured? Someone call Raf.. Stat! And that new leg wrap was cringe worthy
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I couldn't really hear the commentary but I did hear Terry say "It is artificial" and I thought it was when he was referring to her presentation. I was thinking "I KNOW!!! What hokey choreography! So saccharine SWEET! Uggh". This looks like something a Canadian choreographer would put on a Medvedeva or a Shcherbakova if they could ever get their hands on her, perish that thought..... I seriously question all the decisions made by Team Liu this year. You only have one chance to get to the Olympics, which are what 16 months away (?) and you throw your daughter's training into total chaos???? Yes, the CV, but this is not just lack of ice time. This is a lack of quality training including daily quality coaching needed EVERY day the next 16 months. I just don't think Liu can get the GOE on anything anymore (even her spins look slower and heavier) and someone like Amber Gleen with a real 3axel and senior skating skills could send her off the podium. She's obviously not the skater she used to be, now it's a matter of recalibrating and using every single day to maximize your potential. I just don't see how that's happening getting technical advice via Skype. Mr. Liu is making some really interesting decisions. You'd think he'd learned that SkateDads and Moms don't always know what is best for their childs's skating career. Or maybe Marjorie Chin told him how to expertly manage his daughter's skating career? Who knows at this point. He seems too intelligent to be this unintelligent.
 
I was very surprised to see only wonky doubles from Alyssa as well. But I disagree with the criticism concerning her program and presentation. Though I’m rather tired of La Strada, I thought her presentation was engaging, charismatic and lovely. I’m very sorry the pandemic has been so hard on her training...and then having to deal with a growth spurt on top of it. I too wish she could get with Raf or a good jump coach ASAP, but it’s up to her and her family and how much she wants the Olympics. I still think she is a real talent!
 
Sylvia said:
Someone who looks like she is going through a tough time with her skating right now; people showing some empathy might be nice.
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I am empathetic. I am concerned she may be injured. And I found Tara, s comment in her intro lso concerning. There won't be this can jumps.... But it will be a sweet program. A sweet program from the two time national champion ? I am worried.
 
She's not even old enough to compete on the GP! USFSA could have spared her this by having an age threshold for Seniors at USA Championshps, but whatever.

This appears to be a growth spurt, who knows what is happening behind the scenes. We'll have to trust that her family knows what is best for her as a person, regardless of what is best for her as a skater. Ultimately, though, they are the same thing.
 
People could also just chill out. It’s the middle of a pan-demic. She’s a teenager. She is having some difficulties right now from which she may or may not emerge stronger. the only thing that will tell is time. She always had a long road with her basic technique, which has been pointed out for years.

But she is a two time senior national champion along with other accomplishments. She’ll always have that, and I doubt she’d prefer to have been competing in juniors and missed out on those moments just because this moment is hard.
 
I think Alyssa has proved herself, and it would be nice if we all gave her a year or so to get used to her maturing body. The timing may be all wrong for the Olympics. So be it.

It was more than a little weird to hear Tara and Terry repeating last year's script as if nothing had changed. A lot has changed, and we will just have to wait and see how she comes through it.

@Theatregirl1122: exactly!
 
Genuine question...did people really think her 3A or 4Lz was going to last through puberty with the technique she had? Also, I found her smile looked completely pasted on throughout this program. She’s always had that cutesy smile for her upbeat programs, but it came across really rehearsed this times.
 
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