U.S. Ladies [#26]: Bell, Boots, and Camel

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natsulian

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I think negative reactions from trolls on social media are pretty much a constant (especially when it comes to competitive ladies). That's why the JGP Channel disabled comments. Probably we can leave the drama out there unless there is actual news related to it?

I mean, I understand the need to vent. I can never figure out how to comment on youtube (which is just as well); but sometimes I want to go in and post, "You idiots! That hasn't been illegal in ice dance for a decade! It's a perfectly awesome lift." Etc. But, really, there's no reason everyone on FSU should have to hear it, LOL.
Very true. It was just funny to me, so I posted it. LOL. Gotta love keyboard warriors.

In other news, nataliebunard12 wrote this on GS:
I think for the senior ladies international its akari, pooja and hanna? Does anyone know who is assigned junior internatioal at philly?? Im thinking for junior they might assign ellen slaviek, lindsay thorngren, sarah jung, or maybe jessica lin,??
She said she got this news when she asked a skater.

Link:https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?81096-2019-Philadelphia-Summer-International
 

barbarafan

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I think negative reactions from trolls on social media are pretty much a constant (especially when it comes to competitive ladies). That's why the JGP Channel disabled comments. Probably we can leave the drama out there unless there is actual news related to it?

I mean, I understand the need to vent. I can never figure out how to comment on youtube (which is just as well); but sometimes I want to go in and post, "You idiots! That hasn't been illegal in ice dance for a decade! It's a perfectly awesome lift." Etc. But, really, there's no reason everyone on FSU should have to hear it, LOL.
The happenings on JGP were very extreme. There was a poster on there who called every Russian skater a whore and some would just comment everytime anyone else commented asking people to go to their page and see their pictures. This is over and above the nasty comments about actual skating that a very few people made. I sent a few messages to Ted about having someone monitor the chats once in a while to block people (so that the chat could survive as I really enjoyed it. There were quite a few very knowledgeable people on there so it was quite interesting.) I hate when people ruin things.
 

Theoreticalgirl

your faves are problematic
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I can see Alysa's team is drawing from Rika's most recent season (same musician, the dress looks similar [I think Alysa's reusing her dress from last year?]). But this FS program is such a hot mess choreographically. The transitions are too fussy (I know, I know, that's How It's Done Now, but I think this approach sucks) and prevent her from building any speed or showcasing extension. She looks like she's having a a challenge with all of it. If the peanut gallery can't stop carping about her SS now, this certainly won't shut them up either.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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She looks like she's having a a challenge with all of it. If the peanut gallery can't stop carping about her SS now, this certainly won't shut them up either.
Fortunately, Alysa is not skating for the "peanut gallery" ;) and I think she will continue to challenge herself to keep improving. For those who missed seeing it, Alysa had a much better FS performance in her debut of this program at the Broadmoor Open (fan cam): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8M2tJRSueU

Re-posting here from the Glacier Falls Summer Classic thread in Kiss & Cry:
These are the U.S. Senior and Junior ladies who improved on their previous high total scores this summer (currently top 10 in their respective levels):
Ellen Slavicek (163.71), 1st in Junior Ladies (I expect her to be added to the ISP; ETA: I believe she was injured last fall and that's why she didn't compete in Novice at SWP Regionals after having made her Team USA debut at the Asian Open Trophy in Bangkok in August 2018, placing 6th in Adv. Novice.)
Heidi Munger (147.91), 4th in Senior Ladies [eta: think this was her first comp. of the summer?]
Emilia Murdock (146.87), 5th in Senior Ladies
Caitlin Ha (145.78), 6th in Senior Ladies [she is 16, and placed 9th in Junior at 2019 Nationals]
Alena Budko (143.77), 2nd in Junior Ladies
 
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kwanatic

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I'm not panicking yet when it comes to Alysa. I think she is a very talented and gutsy jumper and that will help to take her quite far in the early stages of her career...I mean, she's already the national champ so she's starting off well. However, I admit I'm in the "peanut gallery" when it comes to her skating skills. I'm less worried about her jumps than I am her skating skills. Those fundamental skills are crucial for her if she is going to make it to the senior international level and be a threat.

Alysa reminds me a bit of Caroline Zhang. Caroline was a WOW! skater when she showed up: beautiful presentation, unbelievable flexibility, solid albeit wonky jumps. She had a very successful junior career and did well her first senior year as well. However, after that, puberty settled in what used to work for her didn't work anymore. As with all skaters, what's lacking in their skill/technique becomes more apparent as they grow. Caroline lacked strong skating skills as well as good jump technique. Over the years she worked to improve both of those but she was never able to catch up to her peers.

Alysa has made improvements and that's reassuring to see. She has a decent way to go to reach the level she needs to be at but I'm hopeful she'll get there as it's clear her team is working on it. I expect her to have a successful JGP year...more so than any other American in recent years. As long as she keeps working and getting better, I think she'll be fine.
 

Dobre

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I really like Alysa's free skate. It's an original choice, and it builds in both choreographic movement and power beautifully. It is my favorite free for her thus far. Not too dark or out-of-character like Les Mis was and more memorable to me than the Witches of Eastwick program from last season. This new LP to New World Symphony is one of Lori's winners, IMO.
 

natsulian

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Once the Free progresses and is worked/tweaked on, I'm sure it will look amazing. Some parts are a little too cluttered while others seem naked, so I hope they find the quintessential balance. Alysa's ina bauer is beautiful, so I hope they let her hold it out for more than a second. Also, certain edges and positions are really golden and if they just let Alysa hold them out, the program would breathe and move wonderfully. I hope the jumps are much improved come Lake Placid and that she continues to work on the skating skills and quality of her jumps. Best of luck to her.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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Bradie performed in the Saturday Night Ice Show in Lake Placid, NY this past weekend (ETA link to a young fan's 3 photos with/of her: https://www.instagram.com/p/B0J-iQZnv-G/). If a local article is published about her appearance there I will post the link here.

Mariah recently had her free skate choreographed by Shae-Lynn Bourne in South Carolina: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz3UEBNByyQ/
She'll be off to Japan for THE ICE shows soon.
 
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shine

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Alysa' FS is a pain to get through, and i'm not just talking about the botched jumps. I'm so not a fan of where her development is headed. Kudos to her for trying these jumps, but they really come across overly ambitious for the level where the rest of her skating is at. The music is also a mess - not only is this tinkly piano version horrible, it's also not really the New World symphony anymore if all it does is repeats the main theme over and over and over. Lori really under-delivered here.
 

Tinami Amori

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Alysa' FS is a pain to get through, and i'm not just talking about the botched jumps. I'm so not a fan of where her development is headed. Kudos to her for trying these jumps, but they really come across overly ambitious for the level where the rest of her skating is at.
Alysa's performance was better at Broadmoor. to me it looks like at this time, when she skates her FS, she is prioritizing the "staging of her jumps" and concentrating less on components and expression. It does not mean that the later will not be worked on or are not here.

Alysa is entering her first year in Juniors with an extremely difficult jump content, against very strong competition. If she manages all her planned jumps in competitions, she is set for a medal. as well, i noticed when she lands her jumps, she is inspired to perform other elements, components quite well, and be very expressive (like in her 2017 and 2018 FS).

i know some people think that "she is rising too fast" and chose to look at her current results as "glass is half empty" rather than "look at this fantastic, not like any other, young girl, who is daring to do what no other US ladies has tried in several years".... I hope this "tallest poppy with the tallest head" keeps being "the tallest" in spite of haters of "the tallest poppies".. ;)
 

VGThuy

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I just don't think I can judge anything this early. I mean everything is still a work-in-progress. It's only freakin' July.
 

Sylvia

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Hanna Harrell and Calista Choi (2019 Novice champ) are listed on USFS' International Assignments page for JGP #1 in Courchevel, France.

ETA: Thanks to @DobrinFan for the heads up & link originally posted in the JGP thread. :)
 
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natsulian

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Hanna Harrell and Calista Choi (2019 Novice champ) are listed on USFS' International Assignments page for JGP #1 in Courchevel, France.
Summer Scores for Frontrunners for Junior Nationals:
1. Jessica Lin, 164.72 - Listed on the ISP and has a 3T+3T
2. Ellen Slavicek, 163.71 - Not listed on the ISP and has never made it to Nationals
3. Lindsay Thorngren, 161 - Listed on the ISP and has a 3Lz+3T, 3F+2T+2Lo, and 2A+3T
4. Elsa Cheng, 158 - Not listed on the ISP
5. Isabeau Levito, 156 - Not eligible for JGP and has 3S+3T and 3Lo+3T and is working 3Lz+3T
6. Finley Hawk, 151
7. Emma Coppess, 149
8. Mia Kalin, 147 - Not eligible for JGP and has 3Lz+3T, 3F+Eu+3S, and is working on a 3A (Same rink as Alysa and trains with her sometimes)
9. Noelle Rosa, 146 - 3Lz+3T
10. Isabelle Inthisone, 144 - Listed on the ISP and has a 3F+3T and is working on a 4T
11. Alena Budko, 143
12. Kate Wang, 141 - Has 3Lz+3Lo and 3Lz+3T
...
16. Calista Choi, 138 - On the ISP and Choi's highest international score is around 160.

Summer Scores for Ladies Competing as Juniors Internationally:
1. Alysa Liu, 214
2. Hanna Harrell, 182
3. Gabriella Izzo, 169 - Said that she wants to compete as a junior internationally in a recent article
4. Emilia Murdock, 146 - Highest international score is 176 at Golden Bear in 2018
5. Sarah Jung (?), 143

? - Not sure

Sources: Protocols/Results from https://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/competitions/
 
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vesperholly

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That makes no sense. They would have had to win a lot of smaller competitions "just" to have made it to Nationals or Worlds.
Not necessarily. Skaters don't have to win anything to go to Nationals or Worlds. Top 4 at Sectionals gets you to Nationals, top 2 or 3 can get you to Worlds. Plenty of third-place skaters compete at Nationals.
 

aftershocks

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^^ Factually, yes. But still, as as skater if you wish to make Nationals and Worlds, you must at the very least have 'a winning attitude' and belief in your abilites. Let's be honest that you have to go out there at all times trying to do your very best, because that's the most you can do as an athlete, especially in a judged sport.

If a skater hopes to make Nationals, they may be thinking 'top four,' or winning it all depending upon how they viably rate against the competition. When the talent is fairly equal at a regional or sectional comp among a group of several skaters, surely everyone among that group, is striving to win. At Nationals, top skaters who are in a position of battling to make the World team I believe more often than not, possess the drive and motivation to pursue winning, even against great odds. But again, it always boils down to focusing on doing one's best, rather than thinking about winning or medaling, especially in the act of performing.

If you are a champion, you always want to win: Aliona Savchenko, Evgenia Medvedeva, Nathan Chen, Yuzuru Hanyu, et al.

Not all skaters (or athletes in general) are in it to win it.
Yes, but I said "top skaters..." which means every skater who has the talent, drive, and opportunity wants to win. Of course, not every skater or athlete are exactly in a position to win it all. So everyone has specific goals they go after in an incremental fashion. For some, it might be just about the goal of improving and enjoying the rewards that skating can provide, and as you said for some it's just about 'making Nationals,' which includes skaters like Carly Gold. And, as concorde said, in order to make Nationals, it's important to reach for being better than other skaters to place high enough. But it's true that the focus should be on improving oneself rather than overfocusing on one's competitors. Many skaters have the goal of trying to make the Olympics. Top skaters generally have the goal of at least medaling, if not trying to win gold (for the very elite). Champions always want to win.
 
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aftershocks

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Judged as a 1st year Junior (compared to Junior peers) Alysa seems to be doing just fine...but judged as the US "Senior" Champion, the lack of speed and the weak, laboured stroking hold Alysa back. I think she could get those quads and 3-axels around if she had more speed.

Her overall technique needs tweaking. Everything looks laboured now. If she is to be a truly great skater (think Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill, Janet Lynn, Michelle Kwan), they are going to have to address her basic skating skills.

It is interesting to compare her to Kwan (at around the same age):

Michelle is not doing Quads but nothing in her skating looks laboured or muscled. There is an ease and a lightness in her skating (that is missing in Alysa Liu's skating). That's the difference that good technique can make.

Lest this seem like all (constructive) criticism, I do want to point out that I do see improvements in Alysa's skating from last season to this season (just not enough yet to be on the same level as her senior peers) and the program is beautiful and has the potential to become a signature piece.
I agree with your assessments. But to be fair, comparing Alysa's recent Broadmoor Open fp and/or her U.S. Nationals fp in January to MK's 1993 U.S. Nationals fp might be more apropos than comparing MK's performance at Nationals at age 12 to Alysa's Glacier Falls mistake-filled fp, especially in light of Alysa having to break in new equipment on short notice because her boots were stolen ahead of the Glacier Falls comp.

It is definitely obvious that Alysa needs to build her speed and improve her skating skills. To be fair, there will never be another Michelle Kwan. MK is a rare, one-of-a-kind legend in her own time. I wish everyone would relax about expecting Kwan-like feats from Alysa Liu (Disclaimer: I'm not saying you are doing that with your observations). This is a completely different era in skating with a great deal more international depth and heavy focus on jumping.
 

Sylvia

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USFS has submitted the names of these 10 ladies as substitutes for JGP Courchevel (entries/subs link is posted in the JGP thread):

Elsa CHENG (should appear on ISP list soon)
Aubrey IGNACIO
Isabelle INTHISONE
Gabriella IZZO*
Pooja KALYAN*
Jessica LIN
Alysa LIU (expected to be named to Lake Placid)
Emilia MURDOCK
Audrey SHIN*
Lindsay THORNGREN

Entries for Courchevel:
Hanna HARRELL*
Calista CHOI

* indicates previous JGP experience
 
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BittyBug

The missing ingredient
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USFS has submitted the names of these 10 ladies as substitutes for JGP Courchevel (entries/subs link is posted in the JGP thread):
This is probably a dumb question but I've never paid much attention to junior grand prix rules: are the entries by country rather than skater, as they are on the senior grand prix? (Seems to be implied based on the U.S. having a substitution list.)
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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This is probably a dumb question but I've never paid much attention to junior grand prix rules: are the entries by country rather than skater, as they are on the senior grand prix? (Seems to be implied based on the U.S. having a substitution list.)
Are you asking if the individual federations decide which of their skaters/teams are assigned where? If so, yes.

Thread for all JGP general discussion (in GSD for now): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...rix-pre-season-news-discussion-thread.105731/
The JGP general announcement (explaining entry numbers by country) is linked in the first post.
 

BittyBug

The missing ingredient
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@Sylvia - yes, I was asking if the JGP worked more like Worlds, where countries have slots for a certain number of skaters and get to assign who they send (vs. senior GP, where the host country has to pull based on skater rankings).
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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@Sylvia - yes, I was asking if the JGP worked more like Worlds, where countries have slots for a certain number of skaters and get to assign who they send (vs. senior GP, where the host country has to pull based on skater rankings).
And those slot numbers are determined by junior worlds results. Federations make their own determination about not only who to send where, but how many events a skater can be assigned to. Russia tends to change the schedule as the season progresses and assign winners at least two events. They do this to up the chances of dominating the JGPF. If you come in third at your first event, you will probably not get a 2nd. Win or go home.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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Good for Pooja!
And those slot numbers are determined by junior worlds results.
In the recent past, USA has been in the 4th to 6th placed country category at Junior Worlds (qualifying 1 lady per JGP) but were fortunate to pick up additional unused spots by countries that placed ahead of them at JW. It was great news that Ting Cui's JW bronze got the U.S. ladies the full allotment of 14 JGP spots back (plus an extra host spot at Lake Placid) this year.
 

natsulian

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Good for Pooja!

In the recent past, USA has been in the 4th to 6th placed country category at Junior Worlds (qualifying 1 lady per JGP) but were fortunate to pick up additional unused spots by countries that placed ahead of them at JW. It was great news that Ting Cui's JW bronze got the U.S. ladies the full allotment of 14 JGP spots back (plus an extra host spot at Lake Placid) this year.
Ting and Hanna really came through for the US. Also, the USA has full Junior Grand Prix spots in EVERY SINGLE DISCIPLINE this season. I think Izzo, Liu, and Harrell have good chances of making it to the JGPF and JW.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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Ting and Hanna really came through for the US. Also, the USA has full Junior Grand Prix spots in EVERY SINGLE DISCIPLINE this season. I think Izzo, Liu, and Harrell have good chances of making it to the JGPF and JW.
Junior worlds, yes as that's determined by the USFS. JGPF remains to be seen. They have to get past a lot of really, really good Russians and some new Japanese skaters first.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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JGPF remains to be seen. They have to get past a lot of really, really good Russians and some new Japanese skaters first.
And Koreans, both new and experienced. Making the JGP Final often comes down to a certain amount of "luck" because the fields are not seeded/evenly distributed among contenders and junior skaters can improve rapidly (or go the other way) from one season (or even one competition!) to the next.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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And Koreans, both new and experienced. Making the JGP Final often comes down to a certain amount of "luck" because the fields are not seeded/evenly distributed among contenders and junior skaters can improve rapidly (or go the other way) from one season (or even one competition!) to the next.
I forgot about Korea. Based on last season, they are certainly the up and coming group of skaters who could likely pass the Japanese this year. To say the Russians and Japanese girls have dominated the JGPF the last quad is an understatement. :lol:
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Ting and Hanna really came through for the US. Also, the USA has full Junior Grand Prix spots in EVERY SINGLE DISCIPLINE this season. I think Izzo, Liu, and Harrell have good chances of making it to the JGPF and JW.
Liu for sure. Hannah depends on the Russians she's assigned with. As far as Izzo I've never seen the hype about her. Don't understand it.
 
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