U.S. Ladies [#26]: Bell, Boots, and Camel

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Tinami Amori

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Being repeatedly asked about Russian baby ballerina phenoms can become tedious.
Maybe she should take a cue from some "Russian baby ballerinas" and use their reply "no comment".
So, on one particular occasion, Ashley responded with the humorous, tongue-in-cheek reference to her young competitors as 'sonograms.'
"Humorous" does not need to be "offensive" or a put-down. Especially when Wagner made other "interesting remarks" about "competitors".

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Tennel and Nagasu will represent Team North Am at Japan Open 2019 (Oct. 5).
https://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/japanopen2019/skater.html (scroll down to lists)
 

aftershocks

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It's wonderful that everyone has different personalities and varying talent levels. Even though every top competitor is in it to win it or they may as well not be skating, ultimately it's all about individual journeys and the choices skaters make. In the larger sense, it's about the choices we all make in life, and in our careers, but especially the choices that athletes make are fascinating to witness. It's cool and a privilege that we can go on journeys with our favorite skaters, and I don't take that privilege for granted.
 

Sylvia

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Replying here:
Lindsay Thorngren (I1) has been added [to the ISP].
Thorngren won the North American Cup Novice Ladies invitational competition held at Skate Milwaukee earlier this week with a total score of 160+/112 in FS (I started a NAC thread in the Kiss & Cry section and posted this results photo link there): https://twitter.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1149442575272697856

More about Lindsay, including her Junior FS video from an April club competition, here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/u-s-ladies-26-bell-boots-and-camel.105458/page-14#post-5589139
 
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natsulian

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Replying here:

Thorngren won the North American Cup Novice Ladies invitational competition held at Skate Milwaukee earlier this week with a total score of 160+/112 in FS (I started a NAC thread in the Kiss & Cry section and posted this results photo link there): https://twitter.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1149442575272697856

More about Lindsay, including her Junior FS video from an April club competition, here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/u-s-ladies-26-bell-boots-and-camel.105458/page-14#post-5589139
Congrats to the ladies. Cannot wait to see if Thorngren will get two Junior Grand Prix assignments.
 

Marco

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I'm not sure why we're discussing Wagner in the thread for current U.S. ladies, but I have to dispute your mention of Nagasu. Mirai competed for 11 years at the senior level in the U.S. - the same number as Wagner - and made the Olympic team twice, with a staggering gap of 8 years between her appearances. Moreover, at her last appearance at the Olympics she was almost 25, having learned a triple axel at the age of 24 to get herself that spot. If that's not longevity, I don't know what is.
Absolutely. That's why I said she was close but wasn't nearly as consistently near the top as Ashley. Mirai went to Worlds in 2010 and then not again til 2016 and 2018. Ashley had her problematic years but since 2012 was able to qualify for Worlds every year and place top 7 until 2018 when she missed.

Right, let's ignore the hard-work, injuries, and personal sacrifices these athletes had to make to achieve their success, even at a young age. You can choose to marginalize these athletes all you want. You can make the choice to denigrate their accomplishments. You can make the choice to disrespect these athletes by failing to acknowledge everything else that went into their success.

Heck, you can even choose to continue to hold up "mature" skaters like Ashley Wagner on a pedestal, as if she was some paragon of "mature" skating. Meanwhile, you can choose to ignore her lack of skating skills, her poor spins and continuous carelessness when it comes to levels, her inconsistent jumps, and vastly empty programs.
I don't think I said any of those things you said. All skaters trained hard and made sacrifices. It's more to do with the ability to rotate and/ or get away with lesser technique when one has a slight body. When one has a mature body, it is more necessary to be absolutely spot on for a jump to work.
 
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natsulian

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Mariah Bell got her Free choreographed by Shae. I cannot wait to see how Bell will fare in the upcoming seasons leading to Beijing. Bell’s a PCS skater, so she will need to rack up those clean performances to truly make an impression on the judges. Bell’s PCS rose considerably near the end of the season, so she will hopefully maintain form and momentum.

Bradie will probably debut her new programs in an upcoming club competition. Also, she’s invited to Japan Open and I’m sure she will do one Challenger event before Skate America.

Glacier Falls, one of the more important summer competitions, is coming up and Alysa usually competes there, so we might see her. Kate Wang is definitely going to be there (Junior with 3Lz-3T, 3Lz-3Lo, and pending 3A). Also, Karen Chen might compete and so will other big names.

Interesting to note, of the 20 ladies listed on the ISP, 11 or 55% are juniors and 2 more (Sarah Jung and Kate Wang) might be added later on, bringing the total to 13 or nearly 60%.
 
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Sylvia

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She [Alysa Liu] already has a video out.
@natsulian posted several of the U.S. ladies' video links from the Aerial Challenge jump competition at Broadmoor Open last month on the previous page of this thread (post #798): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/u-s-ladies-26-bell-boots-and-camel.105458/page-27#post-5606396

I assume Amber Glenn's SP video (that was removed from YT) was her SP in the Broadmoor Open Senior Ladies SP Only event (scored 65.24, 2nd to Karen Chen's 76.04). ETA that Karen also skated her SP ("You Say" by Lauren Daigle) at the Peggy Fleming Trophy (fan cam): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ojkaXNaXeo

My two cents: The other U.S. threads by discipline in Great Skate Debate are for current news and my assumption is that this U.S. Ladies thread is for 2019/20 season news as well. :) I usually post news on retired skaters in their fan/cheer threads in the Trash Can but did start an Ashley Wagner article thread in GSD back in May: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/ashley-wagner-contemplates-‘delicious-ambiguity’-and-transition-to-post-competition-life.105668/
 
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Sylvia

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Posted back in April in this thread:
It looks like Angelina Huang (2017 U.S. Novice champion, 10th at 2017 JGP Austria, 7th in Junior at 2018 Nationals and 6th in Junior at UGL Regionals in October 2018) intends to compete for Taiwan (TPE/Chinese Taipei) at the senior level in 2019-20. More info here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/2018-chinese-taipei-nationals-july-27-28.104165/#post-5580138
Both Huang and Emmy Ma are listed in the Senior Ladies event for TPE Nationals in early August (just started the competition thread in Kiss & Cry): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/2019-chinese-taipei-tpe-nationals-august-2-3-at-taipei-arena.105796/
In addition to noticing Thorngren's addition (refer to post #815 above), @Stephanie posted yesterday that Emmy's name had been removed from the ISP and apparently this is the reason why.

Per Ice Coverage:
"ice coverage" is the poster (person's screen name) at the Golden Skate forum, correct? (It's Vail Invitational, BTW. Thanks for the info. :))

ETA:

Including the info provided by natsulian, the top 5 Senior ladies' total scores in club competitions so far (that I know of) are:

Alysa Liu 214.58 (71.10 in SP, 143.48 in FS) at Broadmoor Open
Hanna Harrell 182.50 (61.22 SP, 121.28 FS) at Cannon Texas Open (122.47 is her FS high score in the qualifying round at Broadmoor Open)
Karen Chen 171.32 at Vail Invitational
Gabriella Izzo 169.41 (54.67 SP, 114.74 FS) at Lake Placid FS comp.
Starr Andrews 149-50 total at L.A. Open (hearsay)
 
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Jarrett

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Very disappointed to see Emmy representing a different country. The judges liked her a lot when she landed the jumps and was receiving multiple assignments from the USFSA. Oh well I'm sure she has her reasons. It just selfish on my part we won't see her at U.S. Nationals.
 

natsulian

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Very disappointed to see Emmy representing a different country. The judges liked her a lot when she landed the jumps and was receiving multiple assignments from the USFSA. Oh well I'm sure she has her reasons. It just selfish on my part we won't see her at U.S. Nationals.
It might be Emmy's only opportunity to go to Worlds, 4CC, and even the Olympics. With the way things are heading, a skater will need a 3A, quad, or very consistent 3-3's to even land in the Top 5 at US Nationals. We have Bradie, Alysa, Hanna, Ting, and Mariah who will probably trade positions within the Top 5 for quite awhile and with Karen Chen coming back, Amber Glenn still in the mix, and other skaters like Starr, Megan, Gabriella, and even Sarah, the prospects of a Top 6 finish are not highly feasible. Regardless of what people have to say about the depth of US ladies, we are rebuilding and we have some very hungry skaters who want to make their mark. As for Emmy, her lack of consistency and technical prowess puts her at a very big disadvantage which cannot be made up by her PCS alone. Best of luck to Huang and Ma.
 

natsulian

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Hanna should stop using the Rippon on every single jumping pass. Not only does it throw her off axis, it presents issues with consistency. For example, Hanna did a 3Lo with a Rippon and fell... but moments later, she did a 3Lo without a Rippon and landed it with ease. Hanna should probably only add the Rippon on her 3Lz+3T and 2A+3T or 2A+Eu+3S, but not on every single jump.
 

Sylvia

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It just selfish on my part we won't see her [Emmy Ma] at U.S. Nationals.
Ditto. Emmy certainly created a MOMENT with her expressive SP performance at 2019 Nationals and I'm very glad she got to experience the appreciative audience reaction in Detroit.

She didn't compete internationally last season (last comp. was 2018 Junior Worlds: http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00102622.htm ) so, if all is in order, she could start representing TPE in 2019.
 
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AngieNikodinovLove

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Hanna should stop using the Rippon on every single jumping pass
I think ER'BODY need to stop these arms over the head unlesss they are at 90% with it. Thank Goodness Amber Glenn cut back on that last season...

Loena Hendrickx is another who needs to let them go.

Last season Hannah was making me nervous with all of them but her success rate seemed higher than Amber's and Loena's.
 

aftershocks

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Very disappointed to see Emmy representing a different country. The judges liked her a lot when she landed the jumps and was receiving multiple assignments from the USFSA. Oh well I'm sure she has her reasons. It just selfish on my part we won't see her at U.S. Nationals.
As others already pointed out, despite Emmy's talent, she was very unlikely to break through in the U.S. over the next 3 to 5 years. She's currently 18, so the time is now to try and improve and go for her dreams. I would imagine the Taipei fed made her a very good offer she couldn't refuse. Just think: Emmy has the opportunity to fight for making the Taipei World team, and also to compete regularly on the senior GP and at Four Continents. There's no way this would happen for her representing the U.S. with the depth of talent that exists among U.S. ladies.

Emmy is a nice looking skater with lovely, lyrical qualities, but her overall talent doesn't stand out enough for her to even place third or fourth in the U.S. at this point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxp8lENwg70

ETA: Inserting corrections to my initial post: Meanwhile, with immediate ready access to more assistance and attention in Taipei, it might be possible for Emmy to improve and to flourish. If nothing else, if she's able to make the Taipei World team (with the requisite minimums), she can begin to gain senior international experience and exposure, and perhaps eventually to add important points for China's podium bid in an Olympic team competition. Athletes must compete in big competitions in order to be able to improve and to hopefully build momentum.

We won't see Emmy at U.S. Nationals, but the tradeoff (which is fantastic for her) is that we will possibly get to see much more of her on the competitive world stage should she excel under the Taipei system. That would be a win for her, a win for her fans, and a big win for Taipei fed.

China has always tended to lag in their ladies discipline. If they have to raid ladies in the U.S. who have Chinese ancestral heritage, to make the Beijing Olympics team competition push, so be it. The current state of our sport is such that skaters often have to pursue representing another country than where they were born, simply in order to have the chance to compete on the world stage and to improve. TPTB are doing nothing to examine, to brainstorm, nor to even begin thinking about long term adjusting the current antiquated competitive structure.

Interestingly, in addition to Emmy Ma now representing Taipei, I think it's rather significant that Chinese fed is not only raiding U.S. ladies, they've also scooped up former U.S. pairs female competitor, Chelsea Lui, who was the promising half of a young U.S. team at 2019 U.S. Nationals. Now, Chelsea will skate with Zhong Xie of China. That tells us something (i.e., the durable and exciting Chinese pairs program must be starting to dry up a bit in terms of blazing talent). This is a great opportunity for Chelsea to learn all the tricks and skills of the Chinese pairs training tradition and point toward the chance of eventually representing China on the world stage in senior pairs, likely much faster than she would have even had the opportunity to battle for doing on behalf of the U.S.
 
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aftershocks

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Chinese Taipei (TPE) federation in Taiwan.
Ah, so Emmy's heritage is Taiwanese, and her ancestors are not from mainland China? If that's the case, I suppose she will move forward even faster if there is no one else she has to battle against with her level of talent. :watch:

But then, of course, Chinese Taipei will have no chance to compete in the Olympic team competition.

So, who among U.S. ladies are now representing China?
 

natsulian

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Ah, so Emmy's heritage is Taiwanese, and her ancestors are not from mainland China? If that's the case, I suppose she will move forward even faster if there is no one else she has to battle against with her level of talent. :watch:

But then, of course, Chinese Taipei will have no chance to compete in the Olympic team competition.

So, who among U.S. ladies are now representing China?
  • Beverly Zhu
  • Emily Zhang
  • Ashley Lin
  • Angel Li (I think that’s her name)

I might have missed a few, but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
 

aftershocks

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  • Beverly Zhu
  • Emily Zhang
  • Ashley Lin
  • Angel Li (I think that’s her name)

I might have missed a few, but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
Thanks. Are some of those listed above competing in juniors and others in seniors for China, do you know? Is Emmy Ma the only viably talented ladies skater that Taipei now has?
 

natsulian

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Ashley Lin will be competing as a senior and so will Beverly Zhu (Yi Zhu). Zhu is already assigned to a Grand Prix event (Cup of China), but Lin will have to wait one more season. Emily Zhang and Angel Li might represent China as Juniors although I’m unsure if both will have to wait a season also.

Teipei’s #1 female skater is Amy Lin who scored 155 at Four Continents and is coached by Raf. She used to represent the USA. Emmy should have no problem rising to the top.
 

Sylvia

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Are some of those listed above competing in juniors and others in seniors for China, do you know?
I just posted some info in the Chinese news thread: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/chinese-skating-news-pt-3-a-long-winding-road-to-beijing-2022.100886/page-22#post-5607561

ETA:

Amy Lin competed in one junior international for the USA in 2014 and placed 5th in Junior at 2015 U.S. Nationals before switching to represent TPE the following season: http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00034594.htm
A major accomplishment for Amy was qualifying for the FS at 2016 Worlds in Boston (she competed at 3 Worlds and 4 Four Continents). As I noted in the 2019 TPE Nationals thread, Amy is not on the entries list this year.
 
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Dobre

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Taipei’s #1 female skater is Amy Lin who scored 155 at Four Continents and is coached by Raf. She used to represent the USA. Emmy should have no problem rising to the top.
Amy is not signed up for Nationals, though. Does anyone know why?
 

natsulian

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US Figure Skating 2019-2020 Team Envelop:

Team A - Alysa Liu, Bradie Tennell, and Mariah Bell

Team B - Starr Andrews, Ting Cui, Hanna Harrell, Megan Wessenberg, Karen Chen

Team C - Amber Glenn, Emilia Murdock, Audrey Shin, and Gabriella Izzo

Team D - Emily Zhang, Wren Warne-Jacobson, Aubrey Ignacio, Sarah Jung, Calista Choi, and Isabelle Inthisone
Emily Zhang has been taken off the Team D list. Expect a replacement soon.
 
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