U.S. Ladies [#25]: Method in the Madness

[Tinami Amori]

Oh. Well I guess people see situations differently

... yes, certain kind of people need to find "something wrong" with those who win ..

===
on another note:
So far Lui is not a fluke. she won US Jr. Nationals last year, sectionals and regionals for the last 2 years, and Asian Trophy earlier this year..

 

[UGG]

... yes, certain kind of people need to find "something wrong" with those who win ..

So far Lui is not a fluke. she won US Jr. Nationals last year, sectionals and regionals for the last 2 years, and Asian Trophy earlier this year..

You are quoting me and then talking about comments I never made. I never said she was a fluke and I don’t think there is anything wrong with her winning nationals. Wrong person for your agenda.

 

[natsulian]

... yes, certain kind of people need to find "something wrong" with those who win ..

So far Lui is not a fluke. she won US Jr. Nationals last year, sectionals and regionals for the last 2 years, and Asian Trophy earlier this year..

To people of that nature, nothing will ever be enough. Unless Alysa skates until she's 33, wins 2 consecutive OGM's, wins all the National and World titles, and perfectly lands 3A's and Quads until she retires... she's a fluke. They love to see people falter and lose because it gives them a sense that they were right all along. They talk about the media, USFS, and fans putting too much pressure on Alysa, but the minute Alysa falls or loses a competition, they're the first ones to write terrible, degrading, and nasty comments online. As soon as Alysa places 2nd or 3rd, they're the first ones to say that she's lost her "technique" and "we knew it from the start". I love it when people converse about a skater's future, potential, technique, etc... but what I dislike is when they start to write them off or talk about them as though they were dead cases. Let the girl live for goodness sakes... she's 13 and only has room for improvement.

 

[Tinami Amori]

You are quoting me and then talking about comments I never made. I never said she was a fluke and I don’t think there is anything wrong with her winning nationals. Wrong person for your agenda.

Ok, let's clarify. I quoted the phrase "people see things differently", and gave a reply. then left open space, and made another comment. i'll fix the sequence of my comments so only the first one is under your quote. sorry for misunderstanding.

To people of that nature, nothing will ever be enough.

I am ok with people thinking "it's not enough"; more concerned with people thinking "anyone who succeeds or wins, does something wrong, unfair, does not deserve it, because others can't do the same or don't have the same opportunities, etc."... there are more and more of such lately..

 

[barbk]

For all the conversation and quotes about how great Julia's skating skills are (having been part of an ISU ranked senior ice dance team), her SS mark is among the lowest. Julia got 6.32 for skating skills. Starr Andrews got 7.00.

https://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2019/27958/CAT017SEG036.html

Charlie White had a similar situation when he was competing both dance and singles skating. Somehow, his skating skills were much diminished as a singles skater even though he was a top ice dancer.

 

[Karen-W]

To people of that nature, nothing will ever be enough. Unless Alysa skates until she's 33, wins 2 consecutive OGM's, wins all the National and World titles, and perfectly lands 3A's and Quads until she retires... she's a fluke. They love to see people falter and lose because it gives them a sense that they were right all along. They talk about the media, USFS, and fans putting too much pressure on Alysa, but the minute Alysa falls or loses a competition, they're the first ones to write terrible, degrading, and nasty comments online. As soon as Alysa places 2nd or 3rd, they're the first ones to say that she's lost her "technique" and "we knew it from the start". I love it when people converse about a skater's future, potential, technique, etc... but what I dislike is when they start to write them off or talk about them as though they were dead cases. Let the girl live for goodness sakes... she's 13 and only has room for improvement.

Oh, and don't forget if she pulls an Adelina or a Tara and wins everything in 2022 then promptly retires to show skating for a few years and then onto college people will still call her a fluke because she only competed one season at the senior level.

 

[Vagabond]

Did Tara Lipinski ever go to college?

 

[UGG]

Tara didn’t win everything in 1 season. Her world and national titles were won the season before she won the Olympics. She was also like 15th at worlds in 1996. So she actually competed 3 seasons as a senior. 1996, 1997 and 1998. I don’t recall Tara ever being considered a fluke. Only Sarah Hughes.

 

[Karen-W]

Tara didn’t win everything in 1 season. Her world and national titles were won the season before she won the Olympics. She was also like 15th at worlds in 1996. So she actually competed 3 seasons as a senior. 1996, 1997 and 1998. I don’t recall Tara ever being considered a fluke. Only Sarah Hughes.

Which makes no sense because Sarah competed on the senior level from 1999-2003 and she was the reigning world bronze medalist in 2002 - the only reason people considered her a fluke is because she wasn't named Michelle, Irina or Maria. Plenty of people hated on Tara in 1998 (no I don't want to revisit the MK-Tara wars) and complained about her tiny jumps. Had the eligibility rules we have today been in effect for Tara her first season as a senior would have been 1998, and Sarah's first year as a senior would have been either 2000 or 2001 had she not been loopholed in as a junior world medalist in 1999. Age wise, those ladies are the same age as Alysa will be in 2022. Do we really think Alysa wouldn't stand a good chance of finishing top 5 or even medalling if she were able to compete seniors in now or next season?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Which makes no sense because Sarah competed on the senior level from 1999-2003 and she was the reigning world bronze medalist in 2002 - the only reason people considered her a fluke is because she wasn't named Michelle, Irina or Maria.

Amen @Karen-W

I agreed with the poster above you until they had to throw in Sarah.

Sarah was in the scene much longer than Tara so Sarah (who medaled in almost every dang thing she did) is not a fluke.

Consistent skaters who snag a world or Oly medal or Gold medal aint flukes.

 

[VGThuy]

Sarah's win is considered flukey to some because nobody expected Irina, Michelle, and Maria to underperform the way that they had, although in hindsight maybe we should have despite how they skated a month before or a month after. Plus, Sarah was shaky as heck in that SP and people argued should have placed lower. But coulda, woulda, shoulda. Sarah performed in that LP and the other three did not.

 

[olympic]

Sarah's win is considered flukey to some because nobody expected Irina, Michelle, and Maria to underperform the way that they had, although in hindsight maybe we should have despite how they skated a month before or a month after. Plus, Sarah was shaky as heck in that SP and people argued should have placed lower. But coulda, woulda, shoulda. Sarah performed in that LP and the other three did not.

By 2002, I expected Sarah to be a pretty reliable choice for Bronze. The Olympics were in the USA and Maria B. was on a downward trend the 2 years leading up to SLC. But, I did not see her as a serious rival to Irina or Michelle.

 

[UGG]

Amen @Karen-W

I agreed with the poster above you until they had to throw in Sarah.

Sarah was in the scene much longer than Tara so Sarah (who medaled in almost every dang thing she did) is not a fluke.

Consistent skaters who snag a world or Oly medal or Gold medal aint flukes.

I personally consider it flukey if you look at her short program ordinals- they were all over the place and just somehow she ended up in 4th but really, that skate was terrible and should have been much lower. She needed to win the LP and have Irina place 2nd or lower and MK needed to place 3rd or lower and all of that happened. All these specific scenarios needed to happen for her to win and they did. That’s why it seems like a fluke to me.

 

[Karen-W]

By 2002, I expected Sarah to be a pretty reliable choice for Bronze. The Olympics were in the USA and Maria B. was on a downward trend the 2 years leading up to SLC. But, I did not see her as a serious rival to Irina or Michelle.

That's how I saw it too, and I was a Sarah uber from the time she won Jr Worlds. I thought she was the dark horse to sneak in for gold should Michelle or Irina falter but I didn't really expect the perfect scenario that did wind up happening to occur.

 

[Bulletsdad]

Alysa Liu posted a pic with her and Jimmy Fallon on Instagram. He looks like an eight foot giant next to her!
https://www.instagram.com/alysaxliu/?hl=en

 

[Jammers]

The best thing for the USFSA to do is not hail Alysa as the savior of US ladies but instead support the other younger girls too like Ting and Hanna. Russia has gotten where they are with their girls because they don't rely on one skater to carry the hopes of the country but have built so much depth that they can afford some of their ladies to fail but still have others to rely on. Only by having more quality girls coming up will the US really get out of it's slump. What i saw Friday was a good start.

 

[natsulian]

The best thing for the USFSA to do is not hail Alysa as the savior of US ladies but instead support the other younger girls too like Ting and Hanna. Russia has gotten where they are with their girls because they don't rely on one skater to carry the hopes of the country but have built so much depth that they can afford some of their ladies to fail but still have others to rely on. Only by having more quality girls coming up will the US really get out of it's slump. What i saw Friday was a good start.

I like how the U.S. federation is not hailing Alysa as the savior, but rather a very talented and likable 13-year-old girl who, if you have the drive to challenge yourself, can aspire to be and someday match. That sends a much more positive message because other young girls will not look to Alysa as someone they can never be, but rather someone they can look up to and compete with. I also love how Mirai really changed the outlook of these girls with her history-making Olympics performance. A lot of the girls this year were talking about how there was a lack of depth in the ladies U.S. figure skating and they looked up to the Russian girls rather than the Americans. However, when Mirai landed that triple axel and historic eight triple Long Program, it really gave them the oomph and courage to be like, "Okay, maybe we can compete with the rest of the world if we try hard enough." Now, I'm not saying Mirai was the only factor, but she certainly played a significant role. The future is bright and hopefully we keep moving in the right direction. I think we can all agree that the ladies' field for the U.S. has not been this exciting for quite some time. Best of luck to ALL our girls, make yourselves and us proud.

 

[insideedgeua]

Alysa Liu posted a pic with her and Jimmy Fallon on Instagram. He looks like an eight foot giant next to her!
https://www.instagram.com/alysaxliu/?hl=en

Better still, the second photo of Alysa with Maddie Zeigler. Maddie looks like a giant and Alysa looks thrilled.

I loved her on the Today show too. While they were talking to her dad, she was looking around at the set, with all of the big photos of herself and it was the back of her head to camera.

She’s so unspoilt and just adorable! I hope she’s having a ball.

 

[Karen-W]

Better still, the second photo of Alysa with Maddie Zeigler. Maddie looks like a giant and Alysa looks thrilled.

I loved her on the Today show too. While they were talking to her dad, she was looking around at the set, with all of the big photos of herself and it was the back of her head to camera.

She’s so unspoilt and just adorable! I hope she’s having a ball.

Oh, my, how Maddie Ziegler has grown up! I haven't watched Dance Moms in years and haven't followed any of the girls' careers but Maddie used to be just as tiny as Alysa!

 

[Bulletsdad]

I just saw Alysa on Jimmy Fallon. What a charming cutie....she's a natural!

 

[Bulletsdad]

Youtube of Alysaon Jimmy Fallon:
https://youtu.be/njDeb2I7SiA

 

[Sylvia]

Youtube of Alysa's appearance on Jimmy Fallon:

Your link is broken. This is the link I just posted in Alysa's TV Alerts thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njDeb2I7SiA

 

[Bulletsdad]

Your link is broken. This is the link I just posted in Alysa's TV Alerts thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njDeb2I7SiA

Thank you!!!

 

[BittyBug]

Youtube of Alysaon Jimmy Fallon:
https://youtu.be/njDeb2I7SiA

She is absolutely charming.

 

[insideedgeua]

I loved that Maddie was all dressed up for the show in a beautiful dress, but Alysa was there in skating leggings and a puffer jacket. No pretension or glamour for her at all yet. Too sweet!

 

[Japanfan]

What proof or facts are there that indicate "the team/parents do not have her best interests in mind"?

I am not speaking of Alyssa in particular.

In general, I'm thinking of coaches that are alleged to encourage or force their skaters to follow a diet so low in calories that it is not healthy. And restrict their water intake, should that rumor be true.

And then there are the 'stage mothers' who live vicariously through their child's success. I actually don't think they are common - most skaters seem to me to have supportive families, it's often a prerequisite for success in sport.

But such parents do exist - just as those with Munchausen by proxy exist. These are obviously two very different things, the latter usually much more egregious/harmful. I mention it only to note that there are parents who serve their own interests before the interests of their child. Not so different, really, from an extreme case in which a parent pushes a child to be a doctor/lawyer, because the parent wanted to be one and never had the opportunity.

I was reading a thread in Moves by the Field, and just came across this:

I wanted to compete through my daughter, who ditched skating for soccer.

IIRC there was an American skater - Korean-American, maybe? - some years ago who was rather miserable in the sport and had a stage mother. Was it Anne-Patrice ____?

 

[BittyBug]

Anne Patrice McDonough

 

[Spikefan]

I don’t get any indication that Mr. Liu is living through Alysa. She even said on Today that her sister skated and stopped after her first competition. It sounds like they get to pursue their passions and Alysa seems to love it right now. Maybe she won’t in a few years but I’m happy for her and wish her nothing but the best.

 

[Maximillian]

AP! Such a talent, can't believe she never made a World/Olympic team.

 

[kwanatic]

Good lord, some people here seriously need to chillax...

I know we as figure skating fans are cautious with younger skaters (as we should be), but why can't Alysa celebrate what she did without people questioning her future in the sport or wanting to put her in a bubble or proclaiming the hype is going to wreck her before she gets started? She's 13 and she just made history... Let her bask in the glow of that success for at least a week before we go back to predicting her imminent demise at the hands of puberty/pressure/over-hype/etc.

Personally I think it's awesome she's getting to do press and interviews and appearances right now. Lest we forget, people tend to not give two craps about skating in this country unless the Olympics are 2 weeks away. The fact a figure skater is appearing on national morning shows and late night television is a reason to celebrate IMO. Maybe people will see her, like her and then follow her career for the next few years...maybe even learn about other skaters and develop an interest in them or the sport.

Time will tell the story with Alysa as it will with all of these young skaters. Let's just enjoy and celebrate them and what they accomplish now and not worry so much about what will happen down the road.