U.S. Ladies [#24]: Starr-Ting Order/Detailed Classification

[Theatregirl1122]

Not sure how true this is but I have heard that elite colleges do call top skaters to ask when they would like to come to their school. If a skater is "recruited," I have no idea how the finances play out.

Why would elite colleges want skaters? Here are my thoughts

1. Schools want diversity in the interests of their students
2. Elite skaters tend to be good students
3. Elite skaters have shown perseverance over time
4. Elite skates tend to have very supportive families
5. Schools know that if families have "found" the money to pay for skating, they can also "find" the money to pay for education

All I know is that my daughter's skating friends have wound up at much more prestigious universities (Princeton and Stanford) than the siblings of her non-skating friends.

I believe there is a link but exactly what, I am not sure.

Elite colleges are specifically looking for those who excel at something. Someone like Nathan Chen looks great for Yale. He's a good student, and he's a high level skater. Certainly being a skater (or any kind of Olympian) helps students to get into a top school. Just like winning the national spelling bee or winning a prestigious robotics award or being a high level dancer. Being on Broadway as a child, being on TV, etc. The Ivy leagues want the best of the best in everything.

The finances do not play out whether a skater is "recruited" or not. The Ivy Leagues offer no merit based aid of any kind for any students. No academic scholarships, no music scholarships, no sports scholarships for their hundreds of athletes. Making an Ivy League athletic team will help you get into the school, but there's no scholarship.

 

[aftershocks]

Russia and Japan are not relying on skaters from a decade ago to get them to the top and that's why the US is so far behind now... Why is the US so good in ladies gymnastics ...? The government doesn't fund them either and i'm sure it cost a lot to be a top gymnast but their seems to never be a lack of talented girls ready to take over from the last World champion.

Others in this thread have addressed your queries thoughtfully and I believe on point. Russia and Japan are vastly different cultures and their federations go about the business of figure skating in quite different ways than in the U.S. You cannot expect every country to be the same. You cannot force a square peg into a round hole!

IMO, gymnastics is extremely popular in the U.S. among a broad spectrum of the population, and it has been increasingly so ever since Olga Korbut and Nadia Comaneci blast upon the public conscious in the early 1970s. And then as many U.S. ladies over the years began to excel as gymnasts at the Olympics, there was no turning back the exponential growth and popularity of gymnastics in big and small towns across the U.S.

In addition, gymnastics is a very different sport than figure skating (which is surely much more expensive and more complicated in its training variances, and in its practical, competitive and strategic requirements, etc). My comments are in addition to the well-articulated reasoning already put forward by other posters in this thread.

In any case, the sport of figure skating has a number of complicated problems as a whole that are failing to be successfully addressed. It's a difficult sport altogether, which has been made more problematic by its lack of forward-thinking leadership for far too many years. It's way too political and antiquated in its competitive structure. There are too many conflicts of interest involved in the ISU's decisionmaking and in their tardiness and inadequacy in addressing major concerns. They have a portentous habit of putting bandaids on deep-seated ills that continue to fester. And also cutting off their nose to spite their face, in the particular instance of ignoring and allowing professional competitions to die out.

Above all, stop ignoring the past and dissing the accomplishments of particular U.S. ladies athletes of the near and recent past in the gung-ho, pell-mell effort to reward and kow-tow to ephemeral teeny-bopper tech feats over well-developed skating skills and well-rounded skating.

 

[Marco]

I wonder if culture is a major part of it too. Once they choose to do it, Russian and Japanese girls focus and work very hard. For Russians, it may have to do with aspiring to breaking through to a better life ala Yulia Lip. And Japanese usually just have very strong ethics. Eventually the talented ones come out on top.

US girls tend to be more free-spirited and have much more of a life outside of skating and tend to approach the sport as recreation first and athletics second. And top skaters don't make so much money in the US anymore. It's just different. Was it Raf who also said something to that effect during an interview?

 

[Marco]

It's time for a new generation of ladies to carry US skating into the future. Russia and Japan are not relying on skaters from a decade ago to get them to the top and that's why the US is so far behind now. Time to stop looking in the past and look to the future.

Sure. This is still sad because:

1. I will miss Ashley's skating.

2. There isn't anyone who has been stepping up or has shown that they can step up in the last few seasons. Gracie almost did but that didn't last long. For a second it looked like Polina would be the next hope, but nope. Karen has been a mess and her brilliance has been more like exceptions. Bradie just doesn't have that star power and Mariah is almost always just a little short technically.

3. I don't see anyone in the current generation and a half of US skaters who has that kind of staying power near the top. Bradie is the only other lady since Ashley to be somewhat consistently medalling at the GPs even though she wasn't nearly as sure-in as Ashley to medal and to make GPF for a couple of seasons straight.

 

[aftershocks]

There isn't anyone who has been stepping up or has shown that they can step up in the last few seasons. Gracie almost did but that didn't last long. For a second it looked like Polina would be the next hope, but nope. Karen has been a mess and her brilliance has been more like exceptions. Bradie just doesn't have that star power and Mariah is almost always just a little short technically.

OMG, please stop with these over-generalizations. Polina suffered a chronic and momentum debilitating injury (plus she was then distracted by her academic and social goals in college). She made a huge effort for a comeback, which was significantly compromised by the need to adjust to a changed body. Do not demean what she accomplished in her abruptly abbreviated skating career.

Everyone has different personalities. And frankly too much pressure and over-expectations are being placed on these ladies in the post-Kwan era of OTT social media 24/7 gazing, prognosticating and tearing down.

Leave Gracie Gold out of this 'next hope, nope' belly-aching please. I think enough has been dumped on this beautiful and prodigiously talented young lady. Allow her some space and indeed some grace to figure out where she goes from here. And stop dissing on her accomplishments.

Karen Chen is not a mess! Maybe we should all reflect on our own challenges before taking potshots at Karen's unfortunate setbacks. Whether or not Karen will be able to figure things out physically and mentally is on her plate. It's impolite to stare down people's throats when they are attempting to digest tough fare to mangia.

Your generalized predictions may or may not hold any water. I'm getting dehydrated even responding to your scorched-earth viewpoints. Back off and leave Bradie and Mariah some space to take care of their own goals and desires. Let them breathe! They do not have to be the next U.S. ladies savior!!!

Bradie is the only other lady since Ashley to be somewhat consistently medalling at the GPs even though she wasn't nearly as sure-in as Ashley to medal and to make GPF for a couple of seasons straight.

What??? Bradie has been on the top international scene for how long in comparison to Ashley? Why are you making this too-soon, not enough information comparison!

 

[NAOTMAA]

I wonder if culture is a major part of it too. Once they choose to do it, Russian and Japanese girls focus and work very hard. For Russians, it may have to do with aspiring to breaking through to a better life ala Yulia Lip. And Japanese usually just have very strong ethics. Eventually the talented ones come out on top.

US girls tend to be more free-spirited and have much more of a life outside of skating and tend to approach the sport as recreation first and athletics second. And top skaters don't make so much money in the US anymore. It's just different. Was it Raf who also said something to that effect during an interview?

This reminds me of an interview from way back with Tatiana Tarasova (or was it Robin Wagner?) and when asked about Sasha she said something like (and I can't remember the exact thing she said) she's a real nice girl and has great talent but she did things like spent her evenings baking cookies instead of doing the things she should have been doing. In essence implying her mind wasn't completely focused on skating and training for the next competition as the coach (Robin or Tat) believed it should have been and instead was on other things.

 

[Debbie S]

I don't think baking cookies in the evening amounts to a lack of focus. Sasha had her concentration issues during her programs, sure, but by all accounts she wasn't a partier (and baking cookies is hardly wild behavior). I don't think there is anything cultural holding U.S. ladies back - there have been plenty of skaters from other countries, including Russia and Japan, who had great potential and never quite reached it or sustained it, or had long careers but many ups and downs (ex: Kostner).

 

[Willin]

Yeah, I think US (and Canadian) skaters definitely have more of a life outside of skating than those in Russia.
A lot of kids that come from the socioeconomic class these skaters come from are pressured to succeed not only in skating but also in school and at least one other extracurricular. So while skating can be their life they have a lot of other things to think about. And then you also have others like Ashley and Sasha who both enjoy skating and training but also like and take time to maintain a healthy social life outside of the rink.
I personally don't think there's anything wrong with having a life outside of the rink, as many skaters succeed while doing so. In most cases I think it's healthier and better to have a life outside of the rink.

I know it's not the same as a team sport, but don't a lot of US skaters get college scholarships due in part to their skating?

Nope. You might get academic or merit scholarships, but that has nothing to do with skating.

Not that I'm aware of. It's possible that some of the powerhouse college synchro teams (Miami U in OH, for example) may provide partial scholarships, as I think synchro has varsity status there, but from what I've heard, it doesn't sound like it. Individual/collegiate team skating is almost always a club sport, not varsity/Division I/II/III. USFS has some scholarship programs that skaters and former skaters can apply for, but b/c those are outside scholarships, the award goes to the school and is applied toward the school contribution, not the family's.

There are 5 varsity programs right now (Miami, Adrian, Lindenwood, Trine, and Liberty). The first three provide no tuition or living stipends, but cover all coaching costs. I have heard that some skaters at Miami (during their golden days) would get more academic scholarship money than would be typical for someone of their academic standing, but idk if that still happens. Trine and Liberty are both new - within the past couple of years - so I don't know what their policies on scholarships are. I would assume Liberty gives money out via academic or athletic scholarships given how many skaters they got so fast with minimal recruiting at competitions.

What the USFS website suggests and reality regarding any college scholarships are two different universes.

How a synchro skater skates (down) vs. How a freestyle skater skates (out) are different. At the early levels, the two are interchangeable but at a certain point, they require two different skill sets. So I would be somewhat shocked if a college suddenly gave a sport scholarship to an elite skater to be on a synchro team.

Same issue with figure skaters and hockey players. Just because a skater has good skating skills does not make him/her into a good hockey player. But I have heard certain parents make comments about turning a figure skater into a hockey player for college scholarships.

This is variable. While for the most part this is true there are crossovers. Yasmin Siraj joined the Haydenettes this season - the premier US Synchro team. Adrian College got skaters both through aggressive recruiting of synchro skaters and taking the time to convert strong (but not top) ladies skaters into synchro skaters.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

This reminds me of an interview from way back with Tatiana Tarasova (or was it Robin Wagner?) and when asked about Sasha she said something like (and I can't remember the exact thing she said) she's a real nice girl and has great talent but she did things like spent her evenings baking cookies instead of doing the things she should have been doing. In essence implying her mind wasn't completely focused on skating and training for the next competition as the coach (Robin or Tat) believed it should have been and instead was on other things.

Where is Robin Wagner these days? Perhaps she's the savior American ladies skating needs. As the last coach of an American gold medalist,she clearly knows how to get the job done.

-BB

 

[VGThuy]

Where is Robin Wagner these days? Perhaps she's the savior American ladies skating needs. As the last coach of an American gold medalist,she clearly knows how to get the job done.

-BB

Unless Robin Wagner changed the way she teaches jump technique, IJS would kill her skaters.

 

[concorde]

Top tier synchro teams now need 1 or 2 good jumpers so some mid-level freestyle have been opted to go that route. But those are the exceptions.

You mentioned Liberty as having varsity skating program. Correct me of I am wrong but isn't that the Ultra-conservative religious school in Virginia?

 

[NAOTMAA]

Unless Robin Wagner changed the way she teaches jump technique, IJS would kill her skaters.

Well Sarah did have good skating skills and didn't she do her jumps from the correct edge? I've always thought it her unfortunate raggedy Andy body that made her mule kick and such but I guess not

 

[Vagabond]

Well Sarah did have good skating skills and didn't she do her jumps from the correct edge? I've always thought it her unfortunate raggedy Andy body that made her mule kick and such but I guess not

I lurves me some Sarah Hughes , but she was a flutzer.

 

[VGThuy]

Well Sarah did have good skating skills and didn't she do her jumps from the correct edge? I've always thought it her unfortunate raggedy Andy body that made her mule kick and such but I guess not

She had one of the worst flutzes in ladies skating history (which is why she smartly opted to only do one in the LP and bravely replaced it with a second 3/3) and the whole IJS attacking URs as severely as they did was in part a response to Hughes winning gold with UR jumps. A lot of IJS was motivated by "correcting" past results and encouraging skating to go in a certain direction.

 

[Willin]

Top tier synchro teams now need 1 or 2 good jumpers so some mid-level freestyle have been opted to go that route. But those are the exceptions.

You mentioned Liberty as having varsity skating program. Correct me of I am wrong but isn't that the Ultra-conservative religious school in Virginia?

No synchro level except Senior can do more than single jumps. IIRC axels are also banned in levels outside of Junior and Senior because they are technically 1.5-revolution jumps. So almost any skater on a non-Junior/Senior team will be fine even if they're not good at freestyle. I am seeing more freestyle skaters switching over to synchro for a number of reasons, but that's for another topic. I don't think many top ladies will switch as Senior ladies vs. Senior/Junior/Collegiate synchro is very different. Synchro is more based on an ice dance/moves in the field background and requires very good skating skills. That's why I was so shocked by Yasmin Siraj joining the Haydenettes. Not to say that she has bad skating skills, more that top teams require their members to have at least Silver dance tests, and you wouldn't expect most Senior ladies to have them. In fact I only know a couple Senior/Junior skaters that even have their Bronze dances.

Yes - it is Liberty as in the ultra-conservative religious school in Virginia. That's one of the reasons I think they're offering more scholarship money in some form or another: Adrian needed heavy, insanely omnipresent recruiting at synchro and Michigan high school freestyle competitions for 5+ years before they started getting enough synchro skaters to come and then two years ago suddenly Liberty has enough skaters for a team? I know a lot of conservative skaters politically and religiously, but none would want to go to Liberty for any reason (not prestigious enough for them and the school's poor reputation for resume purposes). As college sports grow the prestige, brand, and student recruitment of a university this is probably related to LU's larger strategy of recruiting top athletes for all sports including football and basketball. Not that they're getting any top athletes at this point: from what I can gather they're mostly getting mid-tier ladies skaters and putting them with a few synchro skaters they've managed to recruit.

ETA: In something more relevant to this thread, I have heard that Liberty is also recruiting singles skaters for their varsity team. I don't think they've gotten any top US ladies, but maybe they will if they begin to recoup enough of training costs? Then again they don't have any top coaches or facilities to draw Junior/Senior skaters...

 

[Karen-W]

No synchro level except Senior can do more than single jumps. IIRC axels are also banned in levels outside of Junior and Senior because they are technically 1.5-revolution jumps. So almost any skater on a non-Junior/Senior team will be fine even if they're not good at freestyle. I am seeing more freestyle skaters switching over to synchro for a number of reasons, but that's for another topic. I don't think many top ladies will switch as Senior ladies vs. Senior/Junior/Collegiate synchro is very different. Synchro is more based on an ice dance/moves in the field background and requires very good skating skills. That's why I was so shocked by Yasmin Siraj joining the Haydenettes. Not to say that she has bad skating skills, more that top teams require their members to have at least Silver dance tests, and you wouldn't expect most Senior ladies to have them. In fact I only know a couple Senior/Junior skaters that even have their Bronze dances.

Yes - it is Liberty as in the ultra-conservative religious school in Virginia. That's one of the reasons I think they're offering more scholarship money in some form or another: Adrian needed heavy, insanely omnipresent recruiting at synchro and Michigan high school freestyle competitions for 5+ years before they started getting enough synchro skaters to come and then two years ago suddenly Liberty has enough skaters for a team? I know a lot of conservative skaters politically and religiously, but none would want to go to Liberty for any reason (not prestigious enough for them and the school's poor reputation for resume purposes). As college sports grow the prestige, brand, and student recruitment of a university this is probably related to LU's larger strategy of recruiting top athletes for all sports including football and basketball. Not that they're getting any top athletes at this point: from what I can gather they're mostly getting mid-tier ladies skaters and putting them with a few synchro skaters they've managed to recruit.

ETA: In something more relevant to this thread, I have heard that Liberty is also recruiting singles skaters for their varsity team. I don't think they've gotten any top US ladies, but maybe they will if they begin to recoup enough of training costs? Then again they don't have any top coaches or facilities to draw Junior/Senior skaters...

I did a double take reading this thread drift to Liberty. I went to college in Lynchburg (R-MWC) and my first thought was "there's a rink in Lynchburg?" Granted, I was there nearly a quarter century ago but back then the nearest rink was in Roanoke.

And now, back to US ladies... I'm not sad to see that Mirai and Ashley have moved on and won't be competing at Nationals this year. I love Mirai but time goes on and I'm sure we'll all find new US ladies to uber.

 

[Lanie]

I had no idea Liberty had varsity skating. As a conservative person even the most uber-conservative people I know steered cleer of Liberty and its ilk for university. The reputation academically wasn't bad but I hear they are really, really nuts.

 

[Karen-W]

I had no idea Liberty had varsity skating. As a conservative person even the most uber-conservative people I know steered cleer of Liberty and its ilk for university. The reputation academically wasn't bad but I hear they are really, really nuts.

I can't speak to the current campus atmosphere but 25 years ago, that was certainly the case. Very chauvinistic environment - men could have TVs and fridges in their dorm rooms while women could not, and women were still subject to white-glove dorm room inspections. My family is fairly conservative but I would never have survived in a place like Liberty - strong women beget strong women.

 

[Willin]

@Karen-W @Lanie Yup, as I said they're really trying to grow the program and I wouldn't be surprised if they try to get higher ranked singles skaters to go there. I don't know what they're doing to get the recruits they get since everyone seems to hate them, but they're doing something right and since synchro isn't an NCAA sport one would think they can fudge the funding/scholarship rules more than for other sports...

I'm not surprised at all that Ashley isn't competing at Nationals, but I'm surprised Mirai isn't competing. I thought she had a plan to start training again to be in shape in time for one last trip to Nationals this season? Or maybe my memory's failing me...

Actually, I was thinking that Ashley would have one last go round next year if not this year, but listening to her interview with Jackie Wong this winter it sounds like she's really enjoying being retired and coaching. She still sounds hungry for something, so it might be a possibility. Or maybe she'll go with Yasmin Siraj and try for the Haydenettes? Some Senior synchro ladies are well into their '30s! It would be quite the shock but interesting to see. Personally I'd love to see her do shows and the few pro competitions that still exist.

 

[aftershocks]

Unless Robin Wagner changed the way she teaches jump technique, IJS would kill her skaters.

Agreed. And in any case, looking at the full context of the 2002 Olympic ladies competition, Sarah was in fourth place heading into the fp. She had nothing to lose and that's how she skated. The other top ladies (Irina, Michelle, and Sasha) were unable to handle the pressure of the moment. That competition is not an indication of the comparative talent of each skater, much less an indicator of Robin Wagner's coaching prowess.

 

[Lanie]

I can't speak to the current campus atmosphere but 25 years ago, that was certainly the case. Very chauvinistic environment - men could have TVs and fridges in their dorm rooms while women could not, and women were still subject to white-glove dorm room inspections. My family is fairly conservative but I would never have survived in a place like Liberty - strong women beget strong women.

That's how it was at some universities I looked at, but ran away screaming, figuratively. I attended a Christian university that, gasp, let you drink and smoke because we're adults and we will make our own mistakes. I did find it odd nobody was into skating considering there are so many rinks in Southern California! Anyway, that's OT, but I find the whole Liberty does skating thing really odd.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I lurves me some Sarah Hughes , but she was a flutzer.

Sounds like we need Angela Nikodinov back on the scene, and pronto.

Happy holidays from Germany y'all

 

[Wyliefan]

I didn't expect Mirai back. It seemed like she threw everything she had into the Olympic season. The chance to take a break must have been a great relief, and she seems to have enjoyed it. It would be hard to go back to training after that.

 

[asdf334]

OMG, please stop with these over-generalizations. Polina suffered a chronic and momentum debilitating injury (plus she was then distracted by her academic and social goals in college). She made a huge effort for a comeback, which was significantly compromised by the need to adjust to a changed body. Do not demean what she accomplished in her abruptly abbreviated skating career.

Are you for real? There is absolutely nothing factually incorrect with what Marco posted. The US ladies for the most part haven't produced or lived up to their abilities. I don't think you can argue that people like Gracie and Karen have not lived up to their potential even if there are perfectly valid reasons for why this is the case.

 

[Jammers]

Sure. This is still sad because:

1. I will miss Ashley's skating.

2. There isn't anyone who has been stepping up or has shown that they can step up in the last few seasons. Gracie almost did but that didn't last long. For a second it looked like Polina would be the next hope, but nope. Karen has been a mess and her brilliance has been more like exceptions. Bradie just doesn't have that star power and Mariah is almost always just a little short technically.

3. I don't see anyone in the current generation and a half of US skaters who has that kind of staying power near the top. Bradie is the only other lady since Ashley to be somewhat consistently medalling at the GPs even though she wasn't nearly as sure-in as Ashley to medal and to make GPF for a couple of seasons straight.

Ummm i think Gracie was medaling on the GP a lot more then Bradie has and she made the GPF a couple of times which Bradie has yet to do.

 

[vesperholly]

Earnest question about Alysa Liu -

Is her ability to jump and land the 3A based on true solid technique, or is she just able to whip around on the rotations due to her size.

I wouldn’t call it whippy, but her technique does not instill confidence in me for long term success.

 

[Sylvia]

Phil Hersh's feature article on Alysa Liu was published yesterday (December 21): https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2018...3-is-using-the-present-to-avoid-future-shock/
About her coach:

The first skating trip had led immediately to group lessons with [Laura] Lipetsky that ended with a skills test. The coach told Arthur Liu his daughter had done well and asked if they wanted to try private lessons.
“You could see how eager she was to learn and the love she had for skating,” Lipetsky said. “Over time, I saw she could be good. She wanted to learn, and I wanted to guide.” <snip>
Lipetsky, a married mother of two, has been coaching some 20 years. At 15, the coach finished ninth in the 1995 U.S. Championships. Injuries derailed her competitive career, and she went on to get a degree from the University of California.
Liu is Lipetsky’s first student to qualify for nationals. It is not surprising that some in the skating community have questioned the idea of Liu staying with such a little-known coach. Lipetsky has heard the questions but is not concerned.
“Alysa is a very smart girl, and she knows what works for her,” Lipetsky said. “She understands me very well, and she and her dad have trust in me. I know when to give her easy days and when to push her. It has been proven in the results.”

 

[aftershocks]

Are you for real? There is absolutely nothing factually incorrect with what Marco posted. The US ladies for the most part haven't produced or lived up to their abilities. I don't think you can argue that people like Gracie and Karen have not lived up to their potential even if there are perfectly valid reasons for why this is the case.

If you read my post more carefully, you will see that I never said the ladies in question haven't experienced difficulties and setbacks. Everyone can have their own opinion and voice it obviously. I simply disagree with the harshness of Marco's phrasing and tone. It's also rather over-generalizing and dismissive. I don't think that kind of dismissive approach, complete with simplistic put-downs is fair.

Particularly in regard to Bradie, she only broke through as a viable top U.S. ladies contender last season, and she's shown some grit and some modest success. Bradie does not have enough track record to this point to start loading her down with such negative criticism and over-expectations.

I realize that fan disappointment can make us harsh in our assessments. I'm surely guilty of that at times too. But I mostly try to see the larger picture and refrain from making generalized harsh statements like claiming an athlete is 'a mess.' And a 'next hope, nope.' That diminishes their talent and their positive accomplishments. I think U.S. fans too often place way too much pressure on U.S. ladies to 'step up,' without recognizing and acknowledging how much the landscape has changed and why. Yes, U.S. ladies dominated quite often in the past, but times are different for a variety of reasons.

As a measure of U.S. ladies past dominant success, it will take quite awhile before the record total of Olympic and World medals won by U.S. ladies since the 1950s, will be surpassed by either Russia or Japan. Unfortunately, there's been an ongoing tendency for this thread to be a place where U.S. ladies are overanalyzed and torn down, and even mocked. Both fans and non-fans join in the piling on.

I don't think Marco is too far off factually. I just disagree with some of his phrasing and his overly negative dismissiveness/ gloom and doom. Mariah's technical inconsistencies have improved this season under Raf. And Bradie is a determined competitor. She has made some aesthetic improvements as well. Plus, this is only her second year on the the scene as a top-rated competitor. And once again, I personally think it's a good idea to ratchet down over-expectations and the belittling of skaters who experience setbacks. Figure skating is an excruciatingly tough sport.

 

[olympic]

I wouldn’t call it whippy, but her technique does not instill confidence in me for long term success.

I watched the videos posted by @Tinami Amori upthread. It looks like Alysa in slo mo has excellent lift on the entrance of two completely different types of jumps; axel and lutz. It also looks like she gets the jumps around on rotation

 

[vesperholly]

I watched the videos posted by @Tinami Amori upthread. It looks like Alysa in slo mo has excellent lift on the entrance of two completely different types of jumps; axel and lutz. It also looks like she gets the jumps around on rotation

I do not think Alysa gets great lift on the 3axel at all. I didn't say her jumps were cheated, though the first video that Tinami posted of the 3axel was definitely a questionable < toe landing to me. I have seen other 3axels of hers that were clean. Alysa does not have good kick-through on the axel.

This is great kick-through and lift: https://youtu.be/b8JbwKIc4tw?t=29

Watch the free leg action in this video of ladies 3axels. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uhsBZHicHs

Compare Ito and Harding's technique to Nakano and Asada. See how Ito and Harding's free leg goes well past the skating leg? How they "step up" into the jump? That is solid, ideal axel technique. That is technique that will withstand a growth spurt. Alysa doesn't have that technique.