U.S. Ladies [#23]: Triple Axels? What a Novice Idea!

[AxelAnnie]

Boy, I sure don't remember seeing anything about Rachel Flatt's angst. She seemed to just go full steam ahead.

 

[jeffisjeff]

Boy, I sure don't remember seeing anything about Rachel Flatt's angst. She seemed to just go full steam ahead.

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...o-fight-eating-disorders.104412/#post-5412890

I had body image issues of my own because I had people walk up to me saying 'well you look like you could drop 20 pounds' when I'm like 15 years old, and that's really inappropriate.”

 

[Tinami Amori]

Well, Debbie Thomas has a mental illness and struggled a lot with professional life. There were several media pieces on Rachael Flatt, how difficult she found it to move on from her athletic life and how she as well struggled at least with dejectedness.

Debbie Thomas' issues came up much later in life. At the time of her last Olympics, when she was hyped to beat Witt in the battle of Carmens yet came in 3rd, she wisely in Kiss-n-Cry said something like "now it is back to University and studies", because she had the next and most important stage in life waiting for her. She did not feel like her life is over and did not have knee jerk reactions and stupid decisions "to get that Olympic gold" which would have put her next 4 years in turmoil and negatively affected education and future.

Rachel Flatt, while dealing with weight comments which i am sure got her down, still nicely and quietly moved on to the next and most important stage in life waiting for her, and now she is a well educated professional with impressive medals from "her activities of the youth".

 

[vesperholly]

It's not impossible to fix speed, as several posters have mentioned. What's maybe hard is when your body is used to going into jumps and other elements at a certain speed and when you increase you speed in between, your timing into take-offs will also be different and you must adjust? That could maybe affect your stability on the jumps?

I also would like to see speed particularly OUT of jumps. It's poor technique to go blazing fast into a jump and then land at a dead stop. That's why I think Kaetlyn Osmond has the best jumps around - great height and speed, including on the landing.

 

[gkelly]

I also would like to see speed particularly OUT of jumps.

Note that the new US program component descriptions in the document I linked in post 479 of this thread specifically add "Speed is maintained in and out of elements. (Domestic addition)" to the Skating Skills criteria.

Otherwise, that would factor into GOE, in the "good takeoff and landing" criterion for jumps. There's more to "good" than just "fast" but speed certainly helps.

 

[concorde]

So far the speed discussion has only focused on jumps but it goes beyond that. Having good speed throughout a step sequence makes the component much more difficult.

I think gaining speed is hard to fix because it is much more than adding a couple of cross overs. It is incorporating that "fix" into everything a skater does.

 

[Sylvia]

Megan Wessenberg has elected to compete at New England Regionals this week and scored 67.84 in her SP yesterday -- jumps landed were 3Lz(!), 3T+3T and 2A, plus all level 4 spins and steps. Hopefully she will bring this kind of quality performance to her GP debut at Skate America next week!

 

[wickedwitch]

Megan Wessenberg has elected to compete at New England Regionals this week and scored 67.84 in her SP yesterday -- jumps landed were 3Lz(!), 3T+3T and 2A, plus all level 4 spins and steps. Hopefully she will bring this kind of quality performance to her GP debut at Skate America next week!

I love this program and so hope she goes clean next week. But if she doesn't, I'm glad she went clean once in competition so I can get a great video of it.

 

[Lizziebeth]

Megan Wessenberg has elected to compete at New England Regionals this week and scored 67.84 in her SP yesterday -- jumps landed were 3Lz(!), 3T+3T and 2A, plus all level 4 spins and steps. Hopefully she will bring this kind of quality performance to her GP debut at Skate America next week!

Sounds like she is ready for SA. Smart of her to compete this week to get ready.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Megan Wessenberg has elected to compete at New England Regionals this week and scored 67.84 in her SP yesterday -- jumps landed were 3Lz(!), 3T+3T and 2A, plus all level 4 spins and steps. Hopefully she will bring this kind of quality performance to her GP debut at Skate America next week!

Ohhh, interesting. Thank you for sharing that.

 

[aftershocks]

Debbie Thomas' issues came up much later in life.

That's spelled Debi Thomas. We don't know timing of the onset or the specific genesis of Debi's mental problems. She was under a tremendous amount of stress in the lead-up to the 1988 Olympics, which could be seen on her face and in her interviews during that time. She had suffered an injury the year before (1987) as I recall, which contributed to her losing her U.S. National title to Jill Trenary and her World title to Katarina Witt. I personally believe Debi was struggling with pressure in the lead-up to the '88 Olympics. IMO, she never actually recovered from what she seemed under the surface to feel was letting herself down, as well as letting down her coach and her country with her uncharacteristic fp performance. Debi's mother's reaction, and her coach's reaction to her not winning/ not performing to her abilities likely also added to her emotional distress.

IMO, Debi tried to put on a brave face at the time and for years afterward in interviews. But to me it was always clear that she was struggling emotionally with her Olympics letdown and the hectic aftermath of touring with SOI and trying to finish medical school. Post-Olympics, she put on a good front via still competing and winning professional competitions, and performing in shows. However, some of her behavior on tour seemed erratic as recalled by a few SOI skaters years later. Debi likely had always been a high-achiever and a perfectionist who had put pressure on herself. Unfortunately, I don't think she ever stopped to seek professional counseling post-Olympics. She kept going, including rushing into getting married to her boyfriend at the time, which ended in divorce. She married an athlete some years later and had a son. She graduated from Stanford and worked as a physician, but she eventually hit a wall and everything fell apart/ came unglued...

 

[mag]

I would be shocked if some of Debi’s issues were not initially triggered by the 88 Olympics. Obviously there would have been other reasons, but as @aftershocks outlined above, it would be surprising if she could just pick up and carry on as if nothing had happened. Brian Orser has been quite open about his struggles after his “loss” in 88 which is one of the reasons I was so happy when Med moved to the Cricket Club.

 

[Sylvia]

Alysa Liu landed 3A+2T and attempted 4Lz< (fall) in the second half of her Senior FS at Central Pacific Regionals -- link to the protocol: http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2019/27735/SEGM017.html

https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1051606025533620225

Just in: Alysa Liu attempted a quad lutz in her free skate at Central Pacific regionals (singled her first attempt, then underrotated and fell on her second attempt) - word on the street is she pulled out a clean one in warmup

Alysa Liu (186.08) and Megan Wessenberg (170.33) have the top 2 total scores among the Senior Ladies who have competed at the first 6 Regionals. For those who don't have access to the Kiss & Cry section, here's the link to my compilation of scores of all the Sectional singles qualifiers from Regionals so far, Senior down to Juvenile: https://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/regionals/

 

[Wyliefan]

Wow, good for Alysa! Hadn't heard she was working on the 4Lz!

 

[Willin]

Yeah! I had no idea a 4Lz was in the works from her. Even with the < and fall that's insane. I'm concerned for her health, just like the Russian girls doing quads. Hopefully she is being smart about her training and diet.

ETA: @Sylvia Any news on Sierra Vanetta? Is she injured? She was a surprise contender for nationals last year, but this year it seems she's struggling with triples?

 

[Frida80]

Wow, good for Alysa! Hadn't heard she was working on the 4Lz!

She's training all her Quads.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

For those who don't have access to the Kiss & Cry section, here's the link to my compilation of scores of all the Sectional singles qualifiers from Regionals so far, Senior down to Juvenile: https://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/regionals/

Is Emma Yamaguchi Kristi's daughter?

 

[Willin]

@AngieNikodinovLove No. Her daughter did win pre-juv at regionals, though.
She and her daughters have her husband's last name.

 

[Frida80]

Is Emma Yamaguchi Kristi's daughter?

No. Her daughters' name is Emma Hedican. She competed at pre-juvenile at regionals.

 

[Wyliefan]

I didn't know one of her daughters was skating!

 

[Sylvia]

Emma Hedican, Kristi's younger daughter, is coached by Rudy Galindo but I assume she is mainly competing for fun (Pre-Juvenile is a non-qualifying level) since she is around 13 years old.

@Willin, when Sierra Venetta won the 2016 U.S. Novice Ladies bronze medal her reliable triples were Salchow and loop. She attempted all the triples at Central Pacifics excerpt loop... don't know why. The club competition high score I have for her this season was 149 at Skate San Francisco, just a few points higher than what she scored at Regionals.

 

[Vagabond]

Attempting a quadruple lutz as one's seventh element in a Free Skate takes guts!

 

[Willin]

@Wyliefan @Sylvia Yes, Emma's doing it for fun. While she is coached by Rudy, Kristi seems to do a lot of the coaching herself. She actually has most of her doubles - not great +GOE doubles that would be competitive in qualifying levels, but she can land them. It seems both her and Kristi enjoy the process of competing, but neither wants to go all-out for any serious competitive run.
Her other daughter doesn't skate. I remember she took group lessons to learn the basics, though, so she might skate occasionally.

Since she came up on the other thread, is Elise Freezer still skating? I didn't see her on this year's scoretracker.

 

[Dobre]

Attempting a quadruple lutz as one's seventh element in a Free Skate takes guts!

Yes, I assume it was supposed to be the 2nd element (which was a popped lutz). But Alysa went for it again anyway. All right, she was 15 points ahead of the field after the SP despite a popped axel, but still . . . it is a senior ladies field and jumping a quad lutz takes guts no matter the competition.

 

[Sylvia]

Since she came up on the other thread, is Elise Freezer still skating? I didn't see her on this year's scoretracker.

I had seen her name registered for the Novice Ladies event at Alberta's Wild Rose competition in early August (she was training with Ravi Walia) but she withdrew: http://skateabnwtnun.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2018WRNoviceWomenACR-1.pdf
I believe she may have had another injury and is no longer skating (may have quit), last I heard.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I have been waiting patiently for Freezer to get to juniors and then seniors. I realy hope the injury is not major.

On a side note how interesting that there is a Emma Yamaguchi and Kristi Yamaguchi's daughter is Emma Hedican.

 

[Sylvia]

On a side note how interesting that there is a Emma Yamaguchi and Kristi Yamaguchi's daughter is Emma Hedican.

ERINA Yamaguchi (not Emma) is the Senior who competed at Central Pacifics (placed 6th overall).

 

[Vagabond]

Yes, I assume it was supposed to be the 2nd element (which was a popped lutz). But Alysa went for it again anyway. All right, she was 15 points ahead of the field after the SP despite a popped axel, but still . . . it is a senior ladies field and jumping a quad lutz takes guts no matter the competition.

Her jumps were 3A+2T, 1Z, 2A, 3R, 4Z<, 3Z+1Eu+3S, 3F. It appears that the second lutz is either planned as a quadruple or there so that it can be a quadruple if the first one is singled or doubled. Similarly, the second axel appears to be there so that it can be a triple if the first axel is tripled or doubled. Smart planning!

 

[Dobre]

Her jumps were 3A+2T, 1Z, 2A, 3R, 4Z<, 3Z+1Eu+3S, 3F. It appears that the second lutz is either planned as a quadruple or there so that it can be a quadruple if the first one is singled or doubled. Similarly, the second axel appears to be there so that it can be a triple if the first axel is tripled or doubled. Smart planning!

She's been going for two triple axels in the free earlier this season so hard to know there.

 

[aftershocks]

I would be shocked if some of Debi’s issues were not initially triggered by the 88 Olympics. Obviously there would have been other reasons, but as @aftershocks outlined above, it would be surprising if she could just pick up and carry on as if nothing had happened. Brian Orser has been quite open about his struggles after his “loss” in 88 which is one of the reasons I was so happy when Med moved to the Cricket Club.

ITA. And Debi being a high profile African-American skater in a sport where there are a dearth of black athletes surely only added to the pressure of expectations, and to the enormity of her emotional letdown... She was mocked on the sports pages of American newspapers post-1988 Olympics, albeit by sports journalists who knew absolutely zip about figure skating (and who were majorly pulling for sexy Katharine Hepburn-like Kat Witt from the beginning anyway).

BTW, I think Kat truly respected Debi and knew that Debi was technically strong enough to beat her (because Debi had beaten her previously). However, Kat knew she had to win another Olympic gold medal in order to obtain her freedom from East Germany. Therefore, Kat was all business and gung-ho on winning by any means necessary, no-holds barred. I do not think that both ladies conicidentally chose Carmen for their Olympic free programs. For sure, word got out early that Debi was training with high profile ballet dancers for her Carmen fp, and Kat obviously took note and decided she would ace Debi with her own sexier version of Carmen. Thus, the Battle of the Carmens was born, and the rest is figure skating history (culminating in the very successful Emmy-award winning Carmen skating special -- Brian Boitano's brainchild, btw. Sadly, there was no role for Debi in that television production of Carmen).