U.S. Ladies [#23]: Triple Axels? What a Novice Idea!

[rosewood]

Liu somewhat reminds me of Trusova.

 

[Dobre]

https://twitter.com/sofigureout/status/1063267670752182273
https://twitter.com/sofigureout/status/1063267847936385025

Love it. Loved it when Young You used it last year, and love it with Alysa. Those spins are fab!

I have zero qualms about seeing her challenge herself at Senior Nationals. (Though I kind of hope Tara gets the flu and can't do the commentary).

 

[Spun Silver]

https://twitter.com/sofigureout/status/1063267670752182273
https://twitter.com/sofigureout/status/1063267847936385025

She's amazing. I know she's very young but really... this is talent!

 

[kwanatic]

Liu somewhat reminds me of Trusova.

I guess b/c they're both rather tiny but Trusova is incredibly powerful for such a small girl. The way her jumps lift off of the ice is effortless. Very strong, tons of power, lightning fast rotation and speed. With Liu you can tell she's working for it more. It doesn't exactly look easy for her but she's going for it and making it happen. The hope is she'll continue to build strength which should help that effortless aspect of her skating.

The program is really cute and suits Alysa well. The axel looked nice (one of her better ones) but the combo looked a bit labored. Also I hope her team addresses that leg wrap she's developing. You can see it in the flip and the combo. That could hurt her as she grows. They need to shore up that technique now so it won't be an issue later. Lovely spins, much more connection and personality...and a huge 74+ score.

If she's able to pull those kind of scores at senior nationals she will be in direct competition with the vets. They'll have the PCS advantage but if she's able to pull off that SP layout and can hit an axel plus 6 or 7 triples in the FS, her TES may be enough to make up the PCS deficit.

 

[Frau Muller]

I guess b/c they're both rather tiny but Trusova is incredibly powerful for such a small girl. The way her jumps lift off of the ice is effortless. Very strong, tons of power, lightning fast rotation and speed. With Liu you can tell she's working for it more. It doesn't exactly look easy for her but she's going for it and making it happen. The hope is she'll continue to build strength which should help that effortless aspect of her skating.

The program is really cute and suits Alysa well. The axel looked nice (one of her better ones) but the combo looked a bit labored. Also I hope her team addresses that leg wrap she's developing. You can see it in the flip and the combo. That could hurt her as she grows. They need to shore up that technique now so it won't be an issue later. Lovely spins, much more connection and personality...and a huge 74+ score.

If she's able to pull those kind of scores at senior nationals she will be in direct competition with the vets. They'll have the PCS advantage but if she's able to pull off that SP layout and can hit an axel plus 6 or 7 triples in the FS, her TES may be enough to make up the PCS deficit.

Trusova much more mature and artistic...at one year older than Alysa. For all of the cuteness. Alysa is still a jumping automaton to me. Trusova more flesh-and-blood human.

 

[concorde]

I guess b/c they're both rather tiny but Trusova is incredibly powerful for such a small girl.

According to Trusova ISU bio, she is 150 cm which is just under 5 ft. That is about the average height for a Senior lady but I agree she has a tiny frame. I think her jumps will stay intact.

Liu on the other hand is tiny in height. From what I can tell is is about 4ft 4 inches or so. I expect her to grow about 6 inches before she is eligible to compete Senior. I have no idea what her jumps will looke like after that growth with her current technique. Her spins are spectacular and I am more confident those will stay intact after she grows.

 

[Cachoo]

Trusova much more mature and artistic...at one year older than Alysa. For all of the cuteness. Alysa is still a jumping automaton to me. Trusova more flesh-and-blood human.

I agree with you when it comes to her "Kill Bill" sp. I'm not crazy about the long artistically but her jumps are amazing. I'm trying to imagine Trusova at Satoko's age and with her artistry. Or better yet Satoko with Trusova's jumps. Perfection. I almost wish we didn't know about Alysa. I want this lovely girl to have room to breathe and grow.

 

[sk9tingfan]

I agree with you when it comes to her "Kill Bill" sp. I'm not crazy about the long artistically but her jumps are amazing. I'm trying to imagine Trusova at Satoko's age and with her artistry. Or better yet Satoko with Trusova's jumps. Perfection. I almost wish we didn't know about Alysa. I want this lovely girl to have room to breathe and grow.

Yes, and away from the USFSA hype machine..... Maybe the fact that she won't be able to skate internationally at the junior level until next year will give her that space.

 

[kwanatic]

According to Trusova ISU bio, she is 150 cm which is just under 5 ft. That is about the average height for a Senior lady but I agree she has a tiny frame. I think her jumps will stay intact.

Liu on the other hand is tiny in height. From what I can tell is is about 4ft 4 inches or so. I expect her to grow about 6 inches before she is eligible to compete Senior. I have no idea what her jumps will looke like after that growth with her current technique. Her spins are spectacular and I am more confident those will stay intact after she grows.

Liu is uber-tiny! She's actually got a lot of growing to do assuming she may end up being at least around 5 feet tall. It seems like the common height for most of the skaters tends to be around 5'2" to 5'4" give or take an inch. Both Satoko and Wakaba are listed at 5'0"...Lil Bet is listed at 4'11". They are considered smaller skaters. Of course there are taller skaters: Carolina listed at 5'7" and Maria Sotskova at 5'8".

Ashley, Mirai and Mariah are all listed at 5'3", Gracie at 5'5" and Polina at 5'6". Karen is listed at only 5'0".

It'd be interesting to see how tall Liu's parents are. That may give us an idea of how tall she will grow.

 

[concorde]

It'd be interesting to see how tall Liu's parents are. That may give us an idea of how tall she will grow.

We will only get specifics on the dad.

 

[toddlj]

Wikipedia lists Alysa as 4'7". She may only grow a few more inches; it's not unheard of for women with her genetic background to end up under 5'.

 

[kwanatic]

Wikipedia lists Alysa as 4'7". She may only grow a few more inches; it's not unheard of for women with her genetic background to end up under 5'.

True. I think Tursynbaeva and Hanul Kim are probably the smallest senior women (4'11"). Being that tiny can be a handicap for the skater though. When they are that small in stature they have to make up for it i.e. strong projection, great ice coverage, strong skating skills, etc. They just have to work a bit harder to leave an impact on the ice. It can be done though.

 

[layman]

True. I think Tursynbaeva and Hanul Kim are probably the smallest senior women (4'11"). Being that tiny can be a handicap for the skater though. When they are that small in stature they have to make up for it i.e. strong projection, great ice coverage, strong skating skills, etc. They just have to work a bit harder to leave an impact on the ice. It can be done though.

Judging by this short program, Alysa's projection, ice coverage, skating skills and speed have all improved a great deal in the space of a month:
https://youtu.be/4iPXqS61fCQ

 

[sk9tingfan]

Just sent the YouTube link to Barbra Streisand thinking she might enjoy the performance. Let's see if she "likes" it!

 

[mag]

Also I hope her team addresses that leg wrap she's developing. You can see it in the flip and the combo.

That combo has a great risk of getting a < on the toe from an international panel.

 

[WillyElliot]

I kind of wish she'd hold her Biellmann much longer at the end. To hit the position and hold it for 8 or 10 revs would bring out the 'boom' ending that DROMP needs. IMO.

 

[Sylvia]

Alysa has done the 3Lz+3T combo better than last night; she got the same combo ratified in her Adv. Novice FS at the Asian Open Figure Skating Trophy in Bangkok this past August. She comes across as fearless, determined and always striving to improve.

 

[layman]

https://youtu.be/fa3ohiY0-Ys

Gracie...so brave. The jumps are not there yet but the speed, edging and ice coverage have improved since the last time I saw her skate. I also see that her knees are a lot softer than they used to be. She is using her knees more. She has a good base from which to build.

 

[Sylvia]

^^^ In case you missed it, there's also a separate discussion thread in GSD - "Gracie Gold set to return" - that's active right now.

ETA:

Livvy Shilling's "One Night Only" Senior SP at Pacific Coast Sectionals was so much fun to watch last night - lots of personality in her performance and she was overcome with emotion seeing her score (60.50) afterwards. Sierra Venetta (61.80) and Akari Nakahara (61.18) also skated cleanly; Brynne McIsaac (56.30) performed well, too.

 

[mag]

Alysa has done the 3Lz+3T combo better than last night; she got the same combo ratified in her Adv. Novice FS at the Asian Open Figure Skating Trophy in Bangkok this past August. She comes across as fearless, determined and always striving to improve.

That is good to hear. I suspect there was a combination of nerves (yes she was going to qualify, but there are still nerves at Sections) and adrenaline from nailing the 3A. Given her base value it surprises me she doesn’t open with the combo to just get it done. But I guess she has a go big or go home attitude!

 

[vesperholly]

Oh, I hope Livvy Shilling makes it back to Nationals! She was very good in 2017.

 

[sjs5572]

That is good to hear. I suspect there was a combination of nerves (yes she was going to qualify, but there are still nerves at Sections) and adrenaline from nailing the 3A. Given her base value it surprises me she doesn’t open with the combo to just get it done. But I guess she has a go big or go home attitude!

The axel is her most challenging jump in the sp, so she does it first. The combo is usually not a problem; even though she had to save it last night. Therefore, she does the combo in the bonus first the extra 1/2 point. Remember, last year (before rule change) she backloaded all 7 triples in her lp.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Alysa Liu's jumps are impressive.... but... but... but ... what? no concern about her fragile 13-year old body? age increase to 18 into Seniors because everyone wants "women skating"? evil coaches who abuse her undeveloped bones? puberty issues and gloomy predictions of her loosing it?... in-te-re-sting....

 

[Willin]

@Tinami Amori At least from my perspective there's no comment on the coaching situation because there's no reason to. I've seen her interact with her coaches and other staff at the ice rink. I've never seen her be verbally abused, told to lose weight/have an unhealthy lifestyle, compared negatively to other skaters, or otherwise has pressure put on her by anyone. Her coach is intense, but only in the calm and quiet way Alyssa herself is.
Outside of her coach everyone where she trains is so, so supportive of her. All of her training mates (including the one sitting behind her in 2nd right now at sectionals) are supportive, encouraging, and promote only healthy friendly competition. It's not a rink or a training environment that's a pressure cooker. Yes, there is some pressure, but not an unusual amount of it for a rink that has elite skaters and certainly not as much as there seems to be at Sambo 70.

I am worried about her body holding up and overtraining - not that I've seen her do it, but I suspect she is if she's getting 3As and quads at that age. It can't be healthy.

I also don't think she's any reason to change my opinion that the Senior age limit should be 18.

 

[sjs5572]

@Tinami Amori At least from my perspective there's no comment on the coaching situation because there's no reason to. I've seen her interact with her coaches and other staff at the ice rink. I've never seen her be verbally abused, told to lose weight/have an unhealthy lifestyle, compared negatively to other skaters, or otherwise has pressure put on her by anyone. Her coach is intense, but only in the calm and quiet way Alyssa herself is.
Outside of her coach everyone where she trains is so, so supportive of her. All of her training mates (including the one sitting behind her in 2nd right now at sectionals) are supportive, encouraging, and promote only healthy friendly competition. It's not a rink or a training environment that's a pressure cooker. Yes, there is some pressure, but not an unusual amount of it for a rink that has elite skaters and certainly not as much as there seems to be at Sambo 70.

I am worried about her body holding up and overtraining - not that I've seen her do it, but I suspect she is if she's getting 3As and quads at that age. It can't be healthy.

I also don't think she's any reason to change my opinion that the Senior age limit should be 18.

I have seen her interact with her dad. There is no external pressure on her. She is self-motivated in terms of training and seems to enjoy her day to day life immensely. She is a lighthearted, happy young lady.

 

[Tinami Amori]

@Tinami Amori At least from my perspective there's no comment on the coaching situation because there's no reason to. I've seen her interact with her coaches and other staff at the ice rink. I've never seen her be verbally abused, told to lose weight/have an unhealthy lifestyle, compared negatively to other skaters, or otherwise has pressure put on her by anyone. Her coach is intense, but only in the calm and quiet way Alyssa herself is.

The issue in question is an earlier discussed one when it came to Trusova and Scherbakova (and not a style of coaching) "a coach allowing and encouraging ultra-hard jumps for a 13 year old, given her undeveloped body".

 

[VGThuy]

I think when triples started becoming super common and we saw what happened to Tara shortly after her Olympic win when she was 15, people have been talking about dangers of over-training. I remember people talked about that regarding Alexei Yagudin as well. When Nathan Chen was doing all those quads, shortly after Boyang Jin took the senior scene by storm, there were tons of comments "worrying" about Nathan Chen's body and "hoping" he would be able to walk by the time he was like 18-25.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I think when triples started becoming super common and we saw what happened to Tara shortly after her Olympic win when she was 15, people have been talking about dangers of over-training.

i remember, they were all rabid Kwan fans, bitter that their darling did not win (and it came with lots of vile against Tara)....

 

[haribobo]

SENIOR LADIES SP (INTL + SECTIONALS)
(omitting Karen and Gracie for now)

Alysa Liu 74
Mariah Bell 70
Bradie Tennell 69
Amber Glenn 66
Starr Andrews 64
Megan Wessenberg 63
Ting Cui 62
Sierra Vennetta, Akari Nakahara 61
Angela Wang, Livvy Shilling 60
Courtney Hicks, Ashley Lin 59
Julia Biechler 58
Hanna Harrell 57
P. Rydberg/E. Ma/H. Munger/B. McIsaac 56
Rena Ikenishi 55
Vivian Le 54

 

[Sylvia]

Beautifully expressive SP performance to Sara Bareilles' "Gravity" by Amber Glenn tonight and she's in 1st place (66.75) at Midwestern Sectionals - landed 3F+3T that was called clean (though 2 judges gave her negative GOE), 2A & 3Lo with all level 4 spins and footwork. Great job!